JET AVIATION (GDY) - Self Funding T/R

[returnofthemack]

Jet Aviation, a General Dynamics company, once seen as a reputable and respectable employer, has now jumped onto the self funding wagon, and are actively looking for pilots to self fund Gulfstream type ratings, in order for them to qualify for permanent contract with the company, and get the privileged of flying for billionaires on their million dollar airplanes.
It would appear that the Jet Aviation sales team in Zurich has finally got the ultimate say in dictating the employment terms. A sign of a weak and disillusioned management and a sad trajectory of a once great employer. How low can you go, shame on you Jet Aviation. :yuk:

.."Expressions of interest for non-type rated G-550 First Officer --
We are looking for a suitable candidate willing to partly self-sponsor the G-550 type rating (up to 40% of the cost) and to engage in a permanent contract." :D

*****://apply.refline.ch/578480/1406/pub/1/index.html

[FLEXJET]

Maybe this particular G550 owner is close to bankruptcy ?

Or he is tired with the turnover ?

Anyway it looks cheap... and / or mismanaged...

[His dudeness]

I predict the position will be filled soon. Make something expensive and some idiots find it attractive.

[what next]

I predict the position will be filled soon. Make something expensive and some idiots find it attractive.

It's a simple matter of maths I would say. A tax deductible expense of 20.000 currency units (40% of a 50.000 type rating) for a permanent position in Switzerland is not unappealing. Means you wont pay much taxes in your first year and from then on you will probably earn more than most airline crew around you. A lot better than paying a full Boeing or Airbus type rating and then flying for 1.800 currency units a month like everybody else...

Of course it is s***ty that self sponsoring one's type rating has become the norm rather than the exception. But this is how it is now, let's face reality. We "never had to pay for a type rating"-types are a dying breed. Those days will never come back.

[returnofthemack]

For a privately managed Gulfstream G550 owner, you would have thought that priority number one was the ability to attract the "right" talent, as opposed to the "talent" that can afford it!
Hopefully this self sponsored first officer will feel less loyal to the employer and "owner" and take early opportunity to look else where as soon as he has accumulated some hours on type. The only advantage to self sponsored type ratings are that you simply feel less loyal and it's so much easier to f@ck off at opportunity.

[Above The Clouds]

Jet Aviation, a General Dynamics company, once seen as a reputable and respectable employer, has now jumped onto the self funding wagon, and are actively looking for pilots to self fund Gulfstream type ratings, in order for them to qualify for permanent contract with the company, and get the privileged of flying for billionaires on their million dollar airplanes.
It would appear that the Jet Aviation sales team in Zurich has finally got the ultimate say in dictating the employment terms. A sign of a weak and disillusioned management and a sad trajectory of a once great employer. How low can you go, shame on you Jet Aviation. :yuk:

.."Expressions of interest for non-type rated G-550 First Officer --
We are looking for a suitable candidate willing to partly self-sponsor the G-550 type rating (up to 40% of the cost) and to engage in a permanent contract." :D

*****://apply.refline.ch/578480/1406/pub/1/index.html

Were in that advert you quote does it mention Jet Aviation, it says nothing about being employed by Jet Aviation in fact the company advertising the position on this website http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9028.html is a pilot contractor company called 'Confidential' who are asking for self sponsorship of 40%.


If you go directly to the Jet Aviation website there is no mention of employing non type rated G550 crew you have to be type rated already.

Here are the two G550 positions advertised on their website, my bold highlight.

https://apply.refline.ch/578480/search.html

Qualification/Experience:
Fully current on type G-450/550
EASA license
Minimum of 1’000 hrs total time
Experience in corporate flying essential
Multilingual / excellent skills in English a must!
Motivated team player
High flexibility paired with outstanding customer service orientation
Please note that only applications fulfilling all above requirements, especially fully G-450/550 rated, will be replied to and taken into consideration.


Qualification/Experience:
Fully current on type G-550 mandatory!
EASA license only
Minimum of 1'000 hrs total time of which at least 500 hrs are on jet aircraft
Minimum of 100 hrs total time on G-550
Experience in corporate flying essential
Multilingual / excellent skills in English a must!
Motivated team player
High flexibility paired with outstanding customer service orientation
Please note that only applications fulfilling all above requirements, especially fully G-550 rated, will be replied to and taken into consideration.

[returnofthemack]

Were in that advert you quote does it mention Jet Aviation, it says nothing about being employed by Jet Aviation in fact the company advertising the position on this website Latest Pilot Jobs - Upgrade Account (*****://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9028.html) is a pilot contractor company called 'Confidential' who are asking for self sponsorship of 40% or maybe this just you starting rumours because you failed to get a job with Jet Aviation ?


If you go directly to the Jet Aviation website there is no mention of employing non type rated G550 crew you have to be type rated already.

Here are the only two G550 positions advertised on their website, my bold highlight.

*****://apply.refline.ch/578480/search.html

Above The Clouds,

Perhaps you should look a little bit harder at the Jet Aviation webpage, before you begin to make you childish accusations. I take it that you can actually read English and not just copy and paste or maybe not?? Don't be so sensitive mate. :D

I can copy paste too (clever), 7 lines up from the bottom (the lower part of you screen!); :ok:

Expressions of interest for non-type rated G-550 First Officer
We are looking for a suitable candidate willing to partly self-sponsor the G-550 type rating (up to 40% of the cost) and to engage in a permanent contract. :}:yuk:

Description/Tasks:
First Officer Private Operation
Qualification/Experience:
EASA license only
Minimum of 1'000 hrs total time of which at least 500 hrs are on Jet aircraft
Experience in corporate flying essential
Multilingual / excellent skills in English a must!
Motivated team player
High flexibility paired with outstanding customer service orientation and serious interest in self-funding up to 40% of the type rating costs are a must
Please note that only applications fulfilling all above requirements, especially jet aircraft experience, will be replied to and taken into consideration.


If fully qualified and interested, please submit your complete application, incl. photo, by E-MAIL to:

[email protected]
Jet Aviation Business Jets AG
Ms Andrea Naef
CH-8058 Zurich Airport
Phone: +41 58 158 8611
*** Please do NOT apply online!!!***

[what next]

Were in that advert you quote does it mention Jet Aviation...

Everywhere. From the company logo at the top right of the advert to the email-address to which you are supposed to send your CV. Just look at my screenshot below:

http://www.bombie.de/tmp/gulfstream.jpg

[Above The Clouds]

Mmmm I stand corrected, however its not a job just an expression of interest.

[returnofthemack]

Mmmm I stand corrected, however its not a job just an expression of interest.

Above The Clouds,

I know your type. You say you stand corrected, and then you go back and edit your previous post (where you attempted a personal attack on me for posting this). A bit pathetic, some would say. But it’s ok.

So, Above The Clouds, now that you’ve been enlightened, you still refuse to face the fact. You must be Swiss and feel personally disheartened by the fact that Jet Aviation has now officially become a P2F company. You're not alone mate.

[what next]

Mmmm I stand corrected, however its not a job just an expression of interest.

1984 came and went, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak is here to stay. I am so glad that our son does not want to become a pilot. S***ty work and pay conditions exist in every branch but ours is about to bottom out.

[CaptainProp]

Maybe this particular G550 owner is close to bankruptcy ?


😂😂 Say again?

[FLEXJET]

😂😂 Say again?

Forbes estimates don't take into account liabilities 😉

[Above The Clouds]

Above The Clouds,

I know your type. You say you stand corrected, and then you go back and edit your previous post (where you attempted a personal attack on me for posting this). A bit pathetic, some would say. But it’s ok.

So, Above The Clouds, now that you’ve been enlightened, you still refuse to face the fact. You must be Swiss and feel personally disheartened by the fact that Jet Aviation has now officially become a P2F company. You're not alone mate.

I don't mind admitting when I stand corrected, maybe you have a problem with that ! could be thats why Jet Aviation have their screening programme to find your type of persona before they let you loose with an aircraft.

Now that I am enlightened I really couldn't care; I am retired from many successful years in commercial aviation with the last 15 years in business aviation and have seen your type hundreds of times come and go, complaining and whinging about the current state of aviation.

Anyway good luck in your search for the perfect career it is what you make it.

BTW I am not Swiss and I typed this all by myself without cut and paste :)

[returnofthemack]

I don't mind admitting when I stand corrected, maybe you have a problem with that ! could be thats why Jet Aviation have their screening programme to find your type of persona before they let you loose with an aircraft.

Now that I am enlightened I really couldn't care; I am retired from many successful years in commercial aviation with the last 15 years in business aviation and have seen your type hundreds of times come and go, complaining and whinging about the current state of aviation.

Anyway good luck in your search for the perfect career it is what you make it.

BTW I am not Swiss and I typed this all by myself without cut and paste :)

Another self proclaimed Sky God that has retired. Thanks.:ok:

[Journey Man]

Above the Clouds,

You initially responded to the OP saying "...or maybe this just you starting rumours because you failed to get a job with Jet Aviation?" before editing that out.

As the OP has been proven correct in that the expression of interest is being proffered by Jet Aviation, an apology is owed rather than doubling down on the ad hominem arguments and insults.

We're an online community - behave.

[uberwang]

Above the Clouds,

You initially responded to the OP saying "...or maybe this just you starting rumours because you failed to get a job with Jet Aviation?" before editing that out.

As the OP has been proven correct in that the expression of interest is being proffered by Jet Aviation, an apology is owed rather than doubling down on the ad hominem arguments and insults.

We're an online community - behave.

You both have hijacked this thread with childish behaviour. Give it a rest.

[Bob Down]

Good stuff guys.

'Andrea' must be delighted at the extra 'advertising' this thread has done for her!

Things are definitely a 'changing at Jet A, but there again, they are changing everywhere.

Welcome to the new normal, right or wrong!

BD

[yellowsubmarine]

I am a G550 F/O and recently changed jobs. I can say from first hand experience that we are rare commodity. Back in the day, Gulfstream owners would only employ captains, but nowadays with every management company trying to out cost save each other there is a demand for rated F/Os that just don’t exist.
I received 3 job offers within a few days of each other, including from Jet & Tag.
Surely paying 40% of a TR and not being bonded on a 550 is something many would jump at, or am I missing something?

[returnofthemack]

I am a G550 F/O and recently changed jobs. I can say from first hand experience that we are rare commodity. Back in the day, Gulfstream owners would only employ captains, but nowadays with every management company trying to out cost save each other there is a demand for rated F/Os that just don’t exist.
I received 3 job offers within a few days of each other, including from Jet & Tag.
Surely paying 40% of a TR and not being bonded on a 550 is something many would jump at, or am I missing something?

I don't know if Jet Aviation will not make you sign a training bond, I would guess it's safe to say, that they probably would.

The point I was making, was actually not about whether it's attractive for non type rated candidates to apply, but more importantly the fact that a previously respectable company, that Jet Aviation WAS, are now asking it's future employees to pay-to-fly for them. Jet Aviation has now involved themselves in the business of having applicants pay to fly for billionaires, and get a contract. :=

[uberwang]

A bond means nothing.. I’ve never heard of anyone having to pay anything back if they leave early because of a bond... and as far as paying goes, how do people still not understand this...? The owners say they want typed people and don’t want to pay ratings... why on earth would Jetaviation then “invest” 50,000 grand plus out of their own pockets? Especially for an asset that can leave when he or she wants to? Those days are gone and while it sucks, it makes sense in the current climate. I know some people that cry over the good old days of simple cellphones... well guess what Nokia brought back the 3310... times will change again...
I don't know if Jet Aviation will not make you sign a training bond, I would guess it's safe to say, that they probably would.

The point I was making, was actually not about whether it's attractive for non type rated candidates to apply, but more importantly the fact that a previously respectable company, that Jet Aviation WAS, are now asking it's future employees to pay-to-fly for them. Jet Aviation has now involved themselves in the business of having applicants pay to fly for billionaires, and get a contract. :=

[Globally Challenged]

A bond means nothing..

This is a vanishingly small / incestuous industry and running from a bond could be extremely career limiting

[uberwang]

Wouldn’t it be great if that was true? I have seen it so many times and not one of the guys or girls didn’t get rehired fast. It’s just not true in reality.
This is a vanishingly small / incestuous industry and running from a bond could be extremely career limiting

[returnofthemack]

Just a rhetorical question. But, what happens if nobody buys into this scheme? Airplane keeps sitting on the ground?

Imho owners/operators only get away with this cuz pilots let them. Big shiny jet syndrom.

The main issue (problem) here is that a previously respectable company like Jet Aviation now actively are looking for self sponsored pilots to pay to fly for billionaires. The sales team at Jet Aviation have obviously pressured an obviously weakened pilot management team into this scheme. The reality is that this is just the beginning of a downward spiral for a company like Jet Aviation, that previously would have had backing from pilots with influence on the owners decision of where to put the aircraft under management. Jet Aviation is losing its appeal by going down this road. Time will tell.

[fastjet45]

Jet Aviation do not bond for either initial or recurrent training.

With this particular case I imagine it is the aircraft owner who is insisting on part self funding of the rating and not Jet Aviation.

[EVS1]

Yellowsubmarine, could you give me an idea of the salary (Before taxes) a G550 could get in Europe? I am an A320 SFO flying the airline and fed up with his job.
Thank's

[J3 Captain]

If you let me, I would like to share my opinionas well. I have been more than 20 years in the business. If I have learnt onething, is that the market is changing all the time. Of course, we tend toremember only the “good” part of the “good old days”, however I think ingeneral, things are not permanently deteriorating. Salaries have gone up anddown worldwide depending on crew availability and owner’s demands. One thinghas remained stable and true since I started flying: the great majority of BusinessJets owners, no matter how rich they are, always considered the airplanes assomething “nice to have” as opposed to an absolute “must have”… These airplanescreate cost for them. And of course, they hire people to keep those generatedcosts under control, or to even reduce them… Aircraft Management companies likeJet Aviation, do not dictate the conditions. Customers dictate. The days whenJet Aviation owned a fleet of small jets for charters are long in the past. Iam quite sure that they do not hire their own crews anymore, just like everyother aircraft management company.


I think our big enemy here are the outrageouslyexpensive training costs generated by CAE and Flight Safety. How can youexplain that they charge nearly USD 100k for GLF type ratings, whereas theycharge 20 to 30 k for Boeing and Airbus Type Ratings? And they are alwaysoverbooked! These totally unreasonable training costs are what makes ouraircraft owners look into new ways to finance their ever increasing costs.This, and the few pilot colleagues who jump from job to job ruining our reputationas professional pilots, are the major reasons why owners start to ask forpilots to pay for their type ratings. I may be wrong here, forgetting to factorin other aspects, however this is my humble opinion on this topic so far. Hopeif helps to bring in a slightly different perspective.


I wish smooth skies to everyone!