RIP QANTAS RAMPY

[1a sound asleep]

Drove into QF SYD carpark to scene of paramedics attending to individual who had jumped to his death.

It's time to start talking about mental health openly and without fear of reprisals. It effects us all and we all need each others support no matter what you do to keep us flying

No need for stigma or secrecy

There are eight deaths by suicide in Australia each day

For every death by suicide, it is estimated that as many as 30 people attempt to end their lives. That is approximately 65,300 suicide attempts each year. 200+ suicide attempts every day in Australia



RIP

[Rated De]

Share entirely the sentiments.

Whilst there are a myriad of issues in such a sad outcome, there is substantial pressure applied by companies for 'industrial outcomes' that invariably add to pressure for those already under strain.

The Qantas grounding and lockout with its insidious manufactured decline had real human impact.There were a number of affected families that weekend. To the board and management who orchestrated and executed such a strategy was there any consideration of personal impact, or was it intended to add pressure?

To dismiss it as industrial practictioners do, is not helpful.

To an airline pilot feeling constant pressure from implied threats to advancement and continued employment from adversarial iR/HR models how exactly do those feeling the strain put their hand up? If reporting fatigued or refusing to extend duties in accordance with company expectation generates an adverse 'note' on file how would a pilot ever say they need some mental health space?

The company and CASA ground them? How does that help, flying may be the difference between a worse outcome.

[Kelly Slater]

If you are lucky enough to have Loss of Licence insurance, it most likely does not cover you for mental health. Perhaps someone in the know can advise whether or not the AFAP's insurance covers this type of illness.

[Blitzkrieger]

From the PDS I was given by the MBF:

Mental Health Claims

(k) The trustee is only authorised to pay the Capital Benefit Balance under this clause for the following
conditions:
(i) Schizophrenia Disorder; or
(ii) Bipolar Disorder

(l) The Trustee is only authorised to make Disability Benefit payments under this clause for the following conditions:
(i) Schizophrenia Disorder;
(ii) Bipolar Disorder;
(iii) Major Depressive Disorder; or
(iv) Depression

[Blitzkrieger]

No capital payment for depression just disability benefits.

[parabellum]

The very first LOL policy I ever had included a clause that the policy would only pay 20% of the policy limit for psychotic, neurotic and epileptic disorders. The insurers reasoning was that it was possible to recover from such disorders, (epilepsy?) and return to flying.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

That is approximately 65,300 suicide attempts each year. 200+ suicide attempts every day in Australia


Or put another way, sometime in the next year, 1 in every 382 Australians will decide that life isn't worth living. I don't know how that compares with other "developed" countries but that a pretty poor effort.

[Derfred]

Rated De:

The Qantas grounding and lockout with its insidious manufactured decline had real human impact.

FFS, dragging this tragic incident into your never-ending diatribe is, frankly, insulting and ludicrous.

Pull your head in.

[Don Diego]

The AFAP does not have insurance.

[AerocatS2A]

Or put another way, sometime in the next year, 1 in every 382 Australians will decide that life isn't worth living. I don't know how that compares with other "developed" countries but that a pretty poor effort.

That would presume that it is a different person each time, highly unlikely.

[Sykes]

Derfred

Regardless of Rated De's intentions, if you think that his point is invalid then you're definitely part of the problem.

[tail wheel]

That is approximately 65,300 suicide attempts each year. 200+ suicide attempts every day in Australia.

Whilst no one should never underrate attempted suicide, the actual suicide rate in Australia "Over a five year period from 2012 to 2016, the average number of suicide deaths per year was 2,795"; one in 8,290. Surprisingly, Australia's suicide rate is greater than the UK (one in 10,940) but less than the USA (one in 7,554).

If you don't feel OK and need help, support or a chat please contact Lifeline (https://www.lifeline.org.au/), Beyond Blue (https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-facts/suicide-prevention) or one of a number of similar services.

[The Green Goblin]

An absolute tragedy.

With 1 in 382 Australians contemplating suicide, there would be roughly 73 individuals in the company that need our help and support.

To blame their mental health issues on industrial events quite a few years ago, is a very poor attempt to manipulate a tragedy. Very poor form.

Look out for each other. Take care of your mates/colleagues at work. Don’t be afraid to ask if someone’s okay. Grab a coffee after work.

It’s tough times for many, both economically and at home. It’s a terrible time of year to be lonely.

Take care out there.

[NWS Inop]

Mental health is definitely a real issue these days.
A few years ago, I was shopping around for LOL or Income protection. Two different products I know, but the broker who quoted for IP asked if I had had any anxiety or depression symptoms. I truthfully told him I had engaged in counselling for some significant personal issues, and was told that I could not be covered for at least the next two years...

Until the CASA bureaucrat's and the various insurance companies find a more realistic approach to this issue, we will be stuck with the status quo. I'm sure we can do better in this day and age...

Rated De, I think you made a valid point in high lighting just one industrial incident that could tip someone over the edge. Arguably the collapse of Ansett would be another.

Thankfully I came out the other side and am plying my trade with no issues. I can't help but think that a pilot being grounded for saying they are having issues or counselling of some sort, might just be the proverbial straw....

We really need to look out for one another... Fly safe

[Blitzkrieger]

Perhaps pointing to a singular industrial event is a bit too targeted but I think the point made is that the brutality and carelessness of IR within dozens of industries is appalling. The minute airline CEO's allowed the terms "efficiency" and "flexibility" to be introduced, the mental integrity of the workforce was doomed.


I can speak for one (contract) organization in saying this: The work output expected of the staff under its care is bad and getting worse. The stress and mental anguish experienced by its staff is a festering boil that shouldn't be ignored. Recreational leave is near on impossible to access due to severe staff shortages, couple this with the ever present demands for efficiency, flexibility and fear of sudden unemployment are all causing an undiagnosed depression load. Who cares? No body, not CASA, not the organization, or its overlying organization and certainly not the travelling public. While profits are up and fares are down, everyone is happy, except the people at the coalface.


If you stand yourself down due to stress you're as good as marked, therefore most suffer in silence, and while the problem is silent, there is no problem. The IR landscape of this country has a distinct odour of industrial revolution thinking.


Stay safe and look out for each other, god knows our safety driven organizations aren't. :mad:

[framer]

The work output expected of the staff under its care is bad and getting worse. The stress and mental anguish experienced by its staff is a festering boil that shouldn't be ignored. Recreational leave is near on impossible to access due to severe staff shortages, couple this with the ever present demands for efficiency, flexibility and fear of sudden unemployment are all causing an undiagnosed depression load. Who cares? No body, not CASA, not the organization, or its overlying organization and certainly not the travelling public. While profits are up and fares are down, everyone is happy, except the people at the coalface.


If you stand yourself down due to stress you're as good as marked, therefore most suffer in silence, and while the problem is silent, there is no problem.
Certainly sounds familiar.
I think that the increase in communications from the company to the employee that has come with iPads, email, iPhones etc has meant staff don’t relax as much as they used to when they do get free time. The fact that managers can see when texts are received and when emails are read, the fact that any third tier manager can fire out a memo to 5000 staff twice a day with no knowledge of how many memos the other thirty third tier managers are sending out has its impact as well.
All in all, mental health suffers if not managed carefully.

[theozguru]

Did any official company communication go out about this persons untimely death?

[bazza stub]

Doubt it did or will.

[maggot]

Did any official company communication go out about this persons untimely death?

They put out something about marginalising their pilot workforce a bit more.

[Pearly White]

Whilst no one should never underrate attempted suicide, the actual suicide rate in Australia "Over a five year period from 2012 to 2016, the average number of suicide deaths per year was 2,795"; one in 8,290. Surprisingly, Australia's suicide rate is greater than the UK (one in 10,940) but less than the USA (one in 7,554).

If you don't feel OK and need help, support or a chat please contact Lifeline (https://www.lifeline.org.au/), Beyond Blue (https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-facts/suicide-prevention) or one of a number of similar services.

While I hesitate to use the term successful in this context, it should be noted that "Over a five year period from 2012 to 2016, the average number of SUCCESSFUL suicide deaths per year was 2,795"

It's only because people are using suicide attempts as a cry for help, or they don't have what they need to do it first time that the actual rate is so low. Hospitals and Mental Health Clinics are crammed full of people every day who have tried to end their lives and failed.