Please give your honest input

[bombinha]

Experienced pilot trying to get a job on B744 in china for first time.

The broker i am using has several different offers and I am confused from all i read about different airlines here. Everyone says CSA is a nightmare for medical for example. So i need some help to take this decision as i am getting older and need some retirement cash. USA salaries are really bad and aren't getting any close to what Chineses are offering. since I only have 15 years for the mandatory retirement at 65, China is my best option. But what airline?

1- Suparna offer good salary and possibility to upgrade to 787 later. They also fly to ORD so commute would be easier. 3 years contract

2- Uni-Top has highest pay but only bits Suparna by USD 1000/month. With base in Shenzen also make easier commute through HKG. 5 years contract

3- China Southern Airlines offer immediate upgrade to 777 or 787 but they take way too long to schedule a screening to 744 pilots. 4 years contract

4- YTO I have no clue who these guys are.

5- ACC Air China Cargo has the largest B744 fleet in China. The flier my broker sent me is from 2015 so i believe their salary isn't that low anymore.
3 years contract

Please give me honest inputs I am not trying to flame anything. I Have over 14k hours total and over 5k in 747's all types being 2k as B744 PIC and 1.5k as B747 PIC.

Thanks in advance I really appreciate it

[duyen]

Should probably stay at home and milk cows. You would probably earn more

[mach85]

Experienced pilot trying to get a job on B744 in china for first time.

The broker i am using has several different offers and I am confused from all i read about different airlines here. Everyone says CSA is a nightmare for medical for example. So i need some help to take this decision as i am getting older and need some retirement cash. USA salaries are really bad and aren't getting any close to what Chineses are offering. since I only have 15 years for the mandatory retirement at 65, China is my best option. But what airline?

1- Suparna offer good salary and possibility to upgrade to 787 later. They also fly to ORD so commute would be easier. 3 years contract

2- Uni-Top has highest pay but only bits Suparna by USD 1000/month. With base in Shenzen also make easier commute through HKG. 5 years contract

3- China Southern Airlines offer immediate upgrade to 777 or 787 but they take way too long to schedule a screening to 744 pilots. 4 years contract

4- YTO I have no clue who these guys are.

5- ACC Air China Cargo has the largest B744 fleet in China. The flier my broker sent me is from 2015 so i believe their salary isn't that low anymore.
3 years contract

Please give me honest inputs I am not trying to flame anything. I Have over 14k hours total and over 5k in 747's all types being 2k as B744 PIC and 1.5k as B747 PIC.

Thanks in advance I really appreciate it

My 2 cents for what its worth......


Medical is a disaster in China wherever you are. I think the reason that you think it is worse in CSA is just that there are a lot of us here now, so law of averages you hear more horror stories from CSA thats all.
The other issue in CSA is the way the contract is written. If you have a medical issue, you immediately get bumped to $100 a day until your 'issue' is resolved. This is not the case in many other Chinese airlines which is also a reason why you hear alot of CSA guys complaining about the medical.

That said, CSA's contract is now incredibly inferior to the recognised 'norm' in China. Most airlines now offer more pay for less hours flown. A win win.
So I dont think personally CSA is your best choice.

Suparna package looks excellent and indeed they will put you on the 787 eventually which is a good rating to have of course especially in China.
However owned by HNA, given all the recent press about their financial issues, is it a good choice............hard to say.

Unitop package seems similar to Suparna or even slightly better.
Seemingly a pretty pleasant place to work all things taken into account.
The 74's are new for them as they have been using A300's previously so I would imagine they would jump all over you with your experience on type.
They are apparently desperate for pilots so would probably they have a screening organised for you very fast.
I also heard that they will fly the 74 to ORD. Not sure where exactly you live in the US but one of those a month during your block on might be nice if you can 'pop home' whilst there.

ACC used to be a good job a while back but you don't hear such great stories anymore. Dreadful hotels, bad rosters etc from what I was told but I dont work there so cant confirm that.

If it was me in your situation I would probably consider Unitop. The main reason against that would be the fact that you would be staying on an obsolete aircraft. Obviously CSA and Suparna would put you on something more modern which might be beneficial for you towards the end of your career.
Unitop only have A300's and B744's so not the most modern fleet but good package and seemingly a pleasant enough place to work.

Hope that helps a little.
All the best with the decision.
Feel free to PM if I can help you further.

Cheers,

[bombinha]

My 2 cents for what its worth......


Medical is a disaster in China wherever you are. I think the reason that you think it is worse in CSA is just that there are a lot of us here now, so law of averages you hear more horror stories from CSA thats all.
The other issue in CSA is the way the contract is written. If you have a medical issue, you immediately get bumped to $100 a day until your 'issue' is resolved. This is not the case in many other Chinese airlines which is also a reason why you hear alot of CSA guys complaining about the medical.

That said, CSA's contract is now incredibly inferior to the recognised 'norm' in China. Most airlines now offer more pay for less hours flown. A win win.
So I dont think personally CSA is your best choice.

Suparna package looks excellent and indeed they will put you on the 787 eventually which is a good rating to have of course especially in China.
However owned by HNA, given all the recent press about their financial issues, is it a good choice............hard to say.

Unitop package seems similar to Suparna or even slightly better.
Seemingly a pretty pleasant place to work all things taken into account.
The 74's are new for them as they have been using A300's previously so I would imagine they would jump all over you with your experience on type.
They are apparently desperate for pilots so would probably they have a screening organised for you very fast.
I also heard that they will fly the 74 to ORD. Not sure where exactly you live in the US but one of those a month during your block on might be nice if you can 'pop home' whilst there.

ACC used to be a good job a while back but you don't hear such great stories anymore. Dreadful hotels, bad rosters etc from what I was told but I dont work there so cant confirm that.

If it was me in your situation I would probably consider Unitop. The main reason against that would be the fact that you would be staying on an obsolete aircraft. Obviously CSA and Suparna would put you on something more modern which might be beneficial for you towards the end of your career.
Unitop only have A300's and B744's so not the most modern fleet but good package and seemingly a pleasant enough place to work.

Hope that helps a little.
All the best with the decision.
Feel free to PM if I can help you further.

Cheers,

Cheers and thank you that was an amazing post.

[mach85]

Cheers and thank you that was an amazing post.


No worries. Happy to help. It is a daunting experience moving to work in China........I remember it well.

One thing I was going to say but forgot(must be the age) was that the more foreign pilots you meet in China, the more you realise that as a general rule, the work environment seems infinitely more pleasurable and relaxed at the private companies compared to the 3 state owned carriers.

Why exactly that is I dont know but worth factoring into your decision making.

Cheers

[bombinha]

No worries. Happy to help. It is a daunting experience moving to work in China........I remember it well.

One thing I was going to say but forgot(must be the age) was that the more foreign pilots you meet in China, the more you realise that as a general rule, the work environment seems infinitely more pleasurable and relaxed at the private companies compared to the 3 state owned carriers.

Why exactly that is I dont know but worth factoring into your decision making.

Cheers

Cool that's a very good input

[Switchbait]

Great info Mach85 👍🏼👍🏼

[Trash8mofo]

YTO is the cargo arm of Alibaba, partially owned by Alibaba's Amazon (TaoBao).

Do keep in mind that there are many many ways that you wont get checked out on line at the end. I would place that at around 40% successful probability.

And after you get checked on the line, your longevity not only depends on your own fortune, but also that of other pilots in your category (foreign pilot, fleet type, time on type, PIC time amount, routes operated etc etc). When other pilots messed up, the CAAC will scrutinize you all the same.

This guy got a GPWS warning on approach in one morning, he could see the runway, VMC condition. So according to SOP he could visually verify there was no threat and continued the approach. Guess where he is now? Got all his licenses taken away, not able to apply to be a pilot for 3 years. WHY? Because while he was able to see in daylight condition, it was technically a few minutes short of the end of civil twilight for that airport. chew on that.

[Transformer_Man]

Do keep in mind that there are many many ways that you wont get checked out on line at the end. I would place that at around 40% successful probability.

And after you get checked on the line, your longevity not only depends on your own fortune, but also that of other pilots in your category (foreign pilot, fleet type, time on type, PIC time amount, routes operated etc etc). When other pilots messed up, the CAAC will scrutinize you all the same.

This guy got a GPWS warning on approach in one morning, he could see the runway, VMC condition. So according to SOP he could visually verify there was no threat and continued the approach. Guess where he is now? Got all his licenses taken away, not able to apply to be a pilot for 3 years. WHY? Because while he was able to see in daylight condition, it was technically a few minutes short of the end of civil twilight for that airport. chew on that.

Welcome to China, the land that "just culture" got locked up in residential detention. If you tell them "no harm no foul" they will laugh and remind you that 100% surveillance finds anything "out of the box" and there is always a penalty.

[columbia747]

latest info suparna
the 787 will go back to hna ,looks like the entire 78 fleet willl go air china
suparna recently had 2 airplanes not being served by ams airport cos bills were overdue ,not paid for some time,a common thing in chinese business>>>>>>the entire recruitment is on a hold ,people dont get answers even after jumping all the hoops....probably HNA will have to pay the bills before 16 march in china before they can continue.....the stories about rostering and bases in ord ams etc just dont believe it ,will never happen cos the majority they can attract is just koreans ........no europeans or americans are interested seen the bad reputation

[columbia747]

for all those that did sim and had promises done by several brokers ,,,,,,,,,especially the ones that have dark deals with chinese companies and immediate interests the ONE and ONLY one 787 goes back in MAY 2018 exit finished done> there is NO such order for 30 B787 I personally checked several times<<<<today 16 march is the day that HNA has to pay fuelbills <<<<<<check yourself

I wrote SMILE AVIATION about their info that it is not correct and misleading ,never got an answer back <<<<<<<be carefull the reputation of some of these brokers is lets say iffy:*

[mach85]

for all those that did sim and had promises done by several brokers ,,,,,,,,,especially the ones that have dark deals with chinese companies and immediate interests the ONE and ONLY one 787 goes back in MAY 2018 exit finished done> there is NO such order for 30 B787 I personally checked several times<<<<today 16 march is the day that HNA has to pay fuelbills <<<<<<check yourself

I wrote SMILE AVIATION about their info that it is not correct and misleading ,never got an answer back <<<<<<<be carefull the reputation of some of these brokers is lets say iffy:*


What a shame that it didn’t work out. Feel sorry for all the guys that have gone through screening etc. Wasted time now it looks like.

Totally agree with your comments about brokers. There are so so many rogue agencies out there it’s very frustrating.
There are a few guys with Smile where I am and by all accounts they are totally and utterly useless.
Seems this story just backs that up.
Another one to stay away from by the sounds of it.......

[joe falchetto 64]

What a shame that it didn’t work out. Feel sorry for all the guys that have gone through screening etc. Wasted time now it looks like.

Totally agree with your comments about agents. There are so so many rogue agencies out there it’s very frustrating.
There are a few guys with Smile where I am and by all accounts they are totally and utterly useless.
Seems this story just backs that up.
Another one to stay away from by the sounds of it.......
I am not intending to take the defenses of Smile Aviation (in fact I run a similar business so we are competitors) but if you think that Smile is a rogue agency I think your understanding of the Chinese environment needs to be improved. Agencies cannot foresee the future and have to follow the company's HR guidelines. That said, one key point must be clearly understood: during the entire interview process a lot of things can go bad, and the Pilot 👩*✈️ involved is almost safe only when the contract is signed.

[mach85]

I am not intending to take the defenses of Smile Aviation (in fact I run a similar business so we are competitors) but if you think that Smile is a rogue agency I think your understanding of the Chinese environment needs to be improved. Agencies cannot foresee the future and have to follow the company's HR guidelines. That said, one key point must be clearly understood: during the entire interview process a lot of things can go bad, and the Pilot 👩*✈️ involved is almost safe only when the contract is signed.

I think you will find that I never called Smile a rogue agency. I was replying to the original message about numerous brokers making promises etc......
I then moved on and mentioned what I have heard from colleagues about Smile not being a very useful agency.

I work at a Chinese airline with one of the largest number of foreign pilots in China so my ‘understanding of the Chinese environment’ is actually fine thanks. There are over 50 agencies recruiting for where I work so you very quickly learn from colleagues which are the good ones and which are not. I am just passing on what colleagues have told me about Smile thats all. Many want to break away from them and sign elsewhere but perhaps their ‘understanding of the Chinese environment’ needs improving aswell........

Cheers,

[joe falchetto 64]

I think you will find that I never called Smile a rogue agency. I was replying to the original message about numerous brokers making promises etc......
I then moved on and mentioned what I have heard from colleagues about Smile not being a very useful agency.

I work at a Chinese airline with one of the largest number of foreign pilots in China so my ‘understanding of the Chinese environment’ is actually fine thanks. There are over 50 agencies recruiting for where I work so you very quickly learn from colleagues which are the good ones and which are not. I am just passing on what colleagues have told me about Smile thats all. Many want to break away from them and sign elsewhere but perhaps their ‘understanding of the Chinese environment’ needs improving aswell........

Cheers,

I am flying in China 🇨🇳 since 7 years, 2 contracts gone, 2 airlines, placed people around... I don't know where you are flying and I don't care; the subtle message that you are trying to pass on this forum using what your "colleagues" are supposingly saying is not fair at all; I know of people that left smile for other agencies and called them back for help, but this is not important. What is important is that I have a successful rate among my candidates of around 95 per cent, and that is only because I give them advices in advance if apply and , in case of positive answer, where to apply in order to have the best chances of success: so yes, I have contacts and I know the situation of a big part of the world there. Just to be crystal clear: I am not looking for candidates here, but it is unfair to spread words without proofs.

[mach85]

I am flying in China 🇨🇳 since 7 years, 2 contracts gone, 2 airlines, placed people around... I don't know where you are flying and I don't care; the subtle message that you are trying to pass on this forum using what your "colleagues" are supposingly saying is not fair at all; I know of people that left smile for other agencies and called them back for help, but this is not important. What is important is that I have a successful rate among my candidates of around 95 per cent, and that is only because I give them advices in advance if apply and , in case of positive answer, where to apply in order to have the best chances of success: so yes, I have contacts and I know the situation of a big part of the world there. Just to be crystal clear: I am not looking for candidates here, but it is unfair to spread words without proofs.

Well aren’t you fabulous with your 95% pass rate. Nobody cares about that either let me tell you because this thread isnt about you so get over yourself.
I also couldn’t care two hoots that you have been in China 7 years on 2 contracts.

I merely said to the original poster who clearly wasn’t happy receiving no feedback from Smile that I have also heard many unhappy guys at my present employer who are with Smile. Nothing wrong with passing over information on a rumour forum is there!!

Given how this has upset you it wouldn’t surprise me if you were a recruiter for Smile anyway. Wouldn’t be the first time that has happened.

Im done with this now.
Good luck,

Cheers

[joe falchetto 64]

Well aren’t you fabulous with your 95% pass rate. Nobody cares about that either let me tell you because this thread isnt about you so get over yourself.
I also couldn’t care two hoots that you have been in China 7 years on 2 contracts.

I merely said to the original poster who clearly wasn’t happy receiving no feedback from Smile that I have also heard many unhappy guys at my present employer who are with Smile. Nothing wrong with passing over information on a rumour forum is there!!

Given how this has upset you it wouldn’t surprise me if you were a recruiter for Smile anyway. Wouldn’t be the first time that has happened.

Im done with this now.
Good luck,

Cheers

Let me be crystal clear, for the benefit of other pilots reading here;if you want to say that your "colleagues" are saying that Smile is a rogue agency than you have to give some hint. Do you want an examples? Here they are.
VOR Holding is a rogue agency: they ask you to sign a commitment that forbid you to change agency, they have just a reference fax number in Arizona and they run the business in China from their Beijing office filled with some clueless employee...and this is only the short version. Hi clouds is another below average agency: they advertise for airliners for which they will never be able to obtain an interview because they don't have any agreement; they were useful only for Spring Airlines as long as one girl from HR was there before being fired...and so on. Shall I recommend Smile aviation? No, there are other better choices out there. But for sure Smile isn't the worst or "rogue": they don't try to stop you from changing airline also if it means changing agency (I have one pilot in my airline coming from smile with all the papers needed for the change) , they don't ask you to sign any restrictive side letter regarding your employment (that is a fact) and they are very supportive for any case regarding the pilot health (it happened to another one, that had health problems leading to surgery in a Chinese hospital and the following CAAC medical release); those are some hints.
Am I with Smile? No, or I would have immediately sued you legally for what are you saying. I work for my small business, I don't advertise, I just place people were I think they are successful regarding the interview and the life in the company . I don't search any application here because I need to do a screening of the candidate before start any application: I have one face and I want results: less money but much less work either. Kind regards.

[ia1166]

Wow,

Reading this really makes me want to apply to china

Where do i sign up?

[joe falchetto 64]

Wow,

Reading this really makes me want to apply to china

Where do i sign up?

As I have said a lot of time, it can be quite enjoyable, or a nightmare...it depends; BTW, you don't apply in China: you apply for one of the 56 airlines flying in China in one of the CAAC branches with the rules of that branch and with a continuously changing environment : just ask to the few captains willing to join CSA stucked with their application for one year due to issues with the documents required for hiring.

[Master Warning!]

Is it normal procedure for a Chinese company to ask for all your training and checking files from the last 3 years plus accident and incident and punishment!! declaration from previous employers, safety record from previous employers, criminal background check with notarization from local chinese embassy, integrity statement and more?

[fuelsurvey]

Is it normal procedure for a Chinese company to ask for all your training and checking files from the last 3 years plus accident and incident and punishment!! declaration from previous employers, safety record from previous employers, criminal background check with notarization from local chinese embassy, integrity statement and more?

Collecting the required documents was more difficult than the entire screening process. When I successfully completed the written exam, medical and two SIM checks I thought the hard part of the screening process was over. The hard part was collecting all the documents. Many of them weren't accepted the first time because they would change their mind as to how it should be formatted or just invent some new document requirement.
It'll be rejected if it's not signed in black gel ink. Don't use ball point.
It took me over 6 months to get all the documents collected.

[Babbalito]

Is it normal procedure for a Chinese company to ask for all your training and checking files from the last 3 years plus accident and incident and punishment!! declaration from previous employers, safety record from previous employers, criminal background check with notarization from local chinese embassy, integrity statement and more?

Yes. It takes forever and is a massive pain in the a$$

[act700]

Let me be crystal clear, for the benefit of other pilots reading here;if you want to say that your "colleagues" are saying that Smile is a rogue agency than you have to give some hint. Do you want an examples? Here they are.
VOR Holding is a rogue agency: they ask you to sign a commitment that forbid you to change agency, they have just a reference fax number in Arizona and they run the business in China from their Beijing office filled with some clueless employee...and this is only the short version. Hi clouds is another below average agency: they advertise for airliners for which they will never be able to obtain an interview because they don't have any agreement; they were useful only for Spring Airlines as long as one girl from HR was there before being fired...and so on. Shall I recommend Smile aviation? No, there are other better choices out there. But for sure Smile isn't the worst or "rogue": they don't try to stop you from changing airline also if it means changing agency (I have one pilot in my airline coming from smile with all the papers needed for the change) , they don't ask you to sign any restrictive side letter regarding your employment (that is a fact) and they are very supportive for any case regarding the pilot health (it happened to another one, that had health problems leading to surgery in a Chinese hospital and the following CAAC medical release); those are some hints.
Am I with Smile? No, or I would have immediately sued you legally for what are you saying. I work for my small business, I don't advertise, I just place people were I think they are successful regarding the interview and the life in the company . I don't search any application here because I need to do a screening of the candidate before start any application: I have one face and I want results: less money but much less work either. Kind regards.

So, Joe, old fella, old pal...."you'd sue..."... yet you are bad-mouthing your competitors on here?! Wonder if they're thinking the same way as you?
Bottom line is, all you agencies are scum only interested in making a buck for yourselves (not that there's anything wrong with making a buck).
Important thing to understand about agencies is they are NOT unions, and don't have the pilot's interest in mind. Nor do they have to..
I definitely believe you that you're not on here looking for clients-because based on what you've written, maybe more importantly how you've written it, not sure if that's good advertisement!!!

[AAGpilot]

Experienced pilot trying to get a job on B744 in china for first time.

The broker i am using has several different offers and I am confused from all i read about different airlines here. Everyone says CSA is a nightmare for medical for example. So i need some help to take this decision as i am getting older and need some retirement cash. USA salaries are really bad and aren't getting any close to what Chineses are offering. since I only have 15 years for the mandatory retirement at 65, China is my best option. But what airline?

1- Suparna offer good salary and possibility to upgrade to 787 later. They also fly to ORD so commute would be easier. 3 years contract

2- Uni-Top has highest pay but only bits Suparna by USD 1000/month. With base in Shenzen also make easier commute through HKG. 5 years contract

3- China Southern Airlines offer immediate upgrade to 777 or 787 but they take way too long to schedule a screening to 744 pilots. 4 years contract

4- YTO I have no clue who these guys are.

5- ACC Air China Cargo has the largest B744 fleet in China. The flier my broker sent me is from 2015 so i believe their salary isn't that low anymore.
3 years contract

Please give me honest inputs I am not trying to flame anything. I Have over 14k hours total and over 5k in 747's all types being 2k as B744 PIC and 1.5k as B747 PIC.

Thanks in advance I really appreciate it


I have to ask, what exactly are they offering in China?

[joe falchetto 64]

So, Joe, old fella, old pal...."you'd sue..."... yet you are bad-mouthing your competitors on here?! Wonder if they're thinking the same way as you?
Bottom line is, all you agencies are scum only interested in making a buck for yourselves (not that there's anything wrong with making a buck).
Important thing to understand about agencies is they are NOT unions, and don't have the pilot's interest in mind. Nor do they have to..
I definitely believe you that you're not on here looking for clients-because based on what you've written, maybe more importantly how you've written it, not sure if that's good advertisement!!!

Are you sure about that? Fine: there are a lot of people right now in line waiting to be hired stucked somewhere in the process due to bad agencies work: some of them will be eventually hired to discover at that precise moment the downside of the contract they have just signed. I only provided factual informations: you can provide other factual informations that can be checked to see if mine are correct or wrong. That is it. I don't have any other interest here, because I use other way to propose my ideas about hiring in SE Asia than this forum. Here I just talk about facts related to my individual experience and the experience of many other fella that I followed and placed.

[bombinha]

I have to ask, what exactly are they offering in China?
What do you mean?
They are offering jobs with a salary you could only get if you 15 years or more on seniority for majors in USA

[tommyknock]

Experienced pilot trying to get a job on B744 in china for first time.
Bombinha...
you remembered me when i applied to the Airline belonging to Hainan group.....the highest paid salary at that time,i was already coming from an expat background:"sure, i can make it".
everything went fine since the beginning,atpl,medical all successful at first attempt.The world was mine:),

Joined the airline,training went fine, after having heard so many bad stories of pilots failed 2,3 times during their line or sim check."Oh they had bad luck,maybe they were not that proficient...."
So here i am in the jungle ,flying with 200-1000 hrs pilots who have been told by the airline to write quarterly report about the foreign captains.

Who believe to be skilled when they can barely talk through the radio asking 4 times for an altitude confirmation.
Now imagine that an average pilot at 1000 hrs total time has a rough idea about the job(at least me),most of these punks are well below the average by all means and write report about you.
Furthermore the airline often listens to the cvr to monitor the foreign pilots.

If they chinese fellas "forck up"and believe me they do,during my training the instructor had a hard landing...we did not land ,we simply fell out of the sky:},they will never get punished.

So to make long story short and as i have already said and wrote read Flying upside down because it has all the truth about your future adventure in China with these crappy airlines.
It is not a matter of if the shat will hit the fan...it is just a matter of when!

If you have financial commitments or you are the kind of person who can swallow everything in name of money then this place could change your life.

At the same time money and drinks can buy some indulgence for a failed sim or a failed medical...i was too naive to believe that.We had cases of sim failed in the afternoon and successful next morning

China is a place where professionally you will worsen but of course money is bloody good so if you last enough maybe you will not need to work anymore.

Do yourself a favor,read what i have written in one of my previous posts ,read the book and make up your mind...

You don't get a fat salary because China is far,you will get it for all the crap which is waiting for you when you will first step into the dragon's land. If it is what you want go ahead and i wish you every success man at least you know the threats.
cheers

[tommyknock]

Ok Bombinha

working in China is amazing,there are : fairness,worker's rights ,very relaxed working environment and friendly atmosphere.

Everybody wants to go there that is why airlines are offering 300.000 bucks/year to the foreign pilots,because they care and love us so much that they want us to live well and happy

Is my input honest enough?
Please go try yourself and experience the paradise on earth for foreign pilots,people are queuing and fighting to go:ok:

[joe falchetto 64]

China is a place where professionally you will worsen but of course money is bloody good so if you last enough maybe you will not need to work anymore.

This statement is indeed really true. But also China is changing, really fast: you wouldn't believe it, now smoking in the flight deck is forbidden and eventually severily punished, as from January 1st.
For all those other things, I shall admit I have been really lucky so far, as the end of my second contract with my second airline in chian is approaching: never experienced anything so dramatic. I have carefully chosen the airlines for which I have worked, anyway, doing my homework at the best possible extension,

[bombinha]

Bombinha...
you remembered me when i applied to the Airline belonging to Hainan group.....the highest paid salary at that time,i was already coming from an expat background:"sure, i can make it".
everything went fine since the beginning,atpl,medical all successful at first attempt.The world was mine:),

Joined the airline,training went fine, after having heard so many bad stories of pilots failed 2,3 times during their line or sim check."Oh they had bad luck,maybe they were not that proficient...."
So here i am in the jungle ,flying with 200-1000 hrs pilots who have been told by the airline to write quarterly report about the foreign captains.

Who believe to be skilled when they can barely talk through the radio asking 4 times for an altitude confirmation.
Now imagine that an average pilot at 1000 hrs total time has a rough idea about the job(at least me),most of these punks are well below the average by all means and write report about you.
Furthermore the airline often listens to the cvr to monitor the foreign pilots.

If they chinese fellas "forck up"and believe me they do,during my training the instructor had a hard landing...we did not land ,we simply fell out of the sky:},they will never get punished.

So to make long story short and as i have already said and wrote read Flying upside down because it has all the truth about your future adventure in China with these crappy airlines.
It is not a matter of if the shat will hit the fan...it is just a matter of when!

If you have financial commitments or you are the kind of person who can swallow everything in name of money then this place could change your life.

At the same time money and drinks can buy some indulgence for a failed sim or a failed medical...i was too naive to believe that.We had cases of sim failed in the afternoon and successful next morning

China is a place where professionally you will worsen but of course money is bloody good so if you last enough maybe you will not need to work anymore.

Do yourself a favor,read what i have written in one of my previous posts ,read the book and make up your mind...

You don't get a fat salary because China is far,you will get it for all the crap which is waiting for you when you will first step into the dragon's land. If it is what you want go ahead and i wish you every success man at least you know the threats.
cheers

Thank you very much my friend. I am the kind that can swallow maggots for money. And God knows i need some to be able to retire

[drifter3]

Hi all,

From my experience doing medicals and having issues for the last few years in both CAAC North (Beijing) and CAAC South (Guangzhou). CSA/CAAC South is by far easier and more practical. (for China).
Regarding the companies you listed, I am not familiar with the 747 contract possibilities, however.
I remember talking to Uni Top guys a while back and the issue they had was, while they were waiting for training, permits, etc, they were only paid a low basic salary because their contract was based on a low basic and then had huge allowances and bonuses. I personally would prefer to take the company with a high basic salary because while you are grounded for any reason before and during the contract, this is normally paid. You might be promised $20,000 flying allowance, but if you are not flying, even through no fault of your own, you get ZERO.

Good Luck

[tommyknock]

just to revive an old thread for the sake of clarity to whom is pm me