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BehindBlueEyes
24th Jan 2018, 07:55
Presidents Club: Men's event accused of sexually harassing hostesses - Business Insider (http://uk.businessinsider.com/presidents-club-dinner-all-male-event-sexual-harassment-allegations-2018-1)

https://www.ft.com/video/5e65b937-ae31-4879-a00b-285e630c0524

Hostesses 'flashed at and groped' during Dorchester gala | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5304655/Hostesses-flashed-groped-Dorchester-gala.html)

https://www.ft.com/content/075d679e-0033-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5





Boorish behaviour or business men just having fun?

If the investigation by the FT is accurate, I’m surprised that so many of the great and good would want to be part of such stag night type behaviour. Even if it does raise £2 million for charity, is it really appropriate in this day and age?

annakm
24th Jan 2018, 10:38
Looks like a sponser is already distancing itself:

WPP drops charity event after sexual misconduct claims - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42801178)

Training Risky
24th Jan 2018, 11:19
If only all Mess dining-in nights were like this!

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 11:32
Presidents Club: Ormond Street returns donations in harassment scandal (http://uk.businessinsider.com/presidents-club-ormond-street-returns-donations-in-harassment-scandal-2018-1?).

goudie
24th Jan 2018, 11:49
You stick loads of successful well heeled men in a room, supply them with loads of booze and 'hostesses' and surprise, surprise, some of the men's behavior becomes questionable.
Why have the hostesses anyway?

charliegolf
24th Jan 2018, 12:02
Hostess: waitress in old money?

CG

Edit, clearly not!

Trossie
24th Jan 2018, 12:07
The £***-wits who attended this and behaved like that deserve absolutely no sympathy for their gross inability to have paid any attention to the prevailing news 'fad' at the moment.

(One wonders if the genders had been reversed at this event if it would have received the same high levels of publicity or if it would have been 'brushed under the carpet'?)

Gertrude the Wombat
24th Jan 2018, 12:13
To me the problem is that the charities benefiting from this event failed to make clear to the punters

- what was included in the ticket price
- what wasn't included in the ticket price but was available at extra cost
- what wasn't on offer at all.

Some of the punters seem to have believed that groping was included in the price, which was why they groped, but that other sexual services were extra cost, which was why they tried to negotiate.

The idea that no sexual service were available at all would not, I suggest, have crossed the minds of any of the punters: WTF were all the girls dressed up as tarts there for in the first place?

oldchina
24th Jan 2018, 13:19
I'm seriously wondering whether there's any retirement income to be gained by pursuing women who may have laid their hand on my dick in the 1960s without written authorisation.

Effluent Man
24th Jan 2018, 13:23
All this to me is down to one thing - bad manners. The people involved in this are exactly the same ones who would criticise the ASBO culture, and both behaviours stem from exactly the same dodgy values. How could the men involved in this possibly come to the conclusion that their actions were wanted and welcome? I think that if I had found myself at such an event I would have made my excuses and left.

I have been to some pretty wild parties over the years, so I am not a prude. The difference is that at all the ones I attended the guests were fully aware of the agenda and went fully informed and happy to partake.

Grayfly
24th Jan 2018, 13:34
Puzzled why the FT would be interested in exposing this, they claim they knew this had been happening over the last decade. The charities obviously knew this was happening at these events and were quite happy to remain 'ignorant' about it.

Now that the FT has exposed the previously accepted outrageous behaviour, the charities don't want the money raised.

Who exactly is benefitting from this?

Who gets the money that has been raised?

Why is anyone surprised?

ImageGear
24th Jan 2018, 13:43
'I was GROPED' Journalist uncovers shocking antics at MEN-ONLY millionaire charity dinner

I do not condone in anyway what took place at this event, however let it be said; What was the FT journalist expecting, cucumber sandwiches and lemonade?. I would not be surprised if she was hoping to be groped in order to gain "column inches" and improve her "Journalistic" credentials. Indeed she may have encouraged it but to say so would not be politically correct. Was she also dressed as a "Tart"?

As for the "members", they were ridiculously suckered and will now pay the piper.

Imagegear

Grayfly
24th Jan 2018, 13:51
One of the organisers has now quit his post. The twitter feed is alive with all those who attended distancing themselves from any bad behaviour and surprisingly no one saw anything.

However, they won't be going back to that event.

The moral high ground must be very crowded at the moment.

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 13:55
As has been pointed out, some of the recipients of this 'charity' no longer want to receive donations from this source - so where will they make good their shortfall?

Gertrude the Wombat
24th Jan 2018, 13:58
How could the men involved in this possibly come to the conclusion that their actions were wanted and welcome?
'Cos there was one woman to three men, and each woman was paid £150 for the night, so each man was paying £50 for the women, and some of them thought that they were therefore entitled to £50 worth? (Not being a user of prostitutes I have no idea how much that usually buys.)

Highway1
24th Jan 2018, 14:09
Sounds more like a story for the News of the World rather than the FT - are the FT looking at going tabloid?

Curious Pax
24th Jan 2018, 14:30
Puzzled why the FT would be interested in exposing this, they claim they knew this had been happening over the last decade. The charities obviously knew this was happening at these events and were quite happy to remain 'ignorant' about it.


Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 12 months?


'Cos there was one woman to three men, and each woman was paid £150 for the night, so each man was paying £50 for the women, and some of them thought that they were therefore entitled to £50 worth? (Not being a user of prostitutes I have no idea how much that usually buys.)

Is it normal to attend an event at an upmarket venue, establish the pay rates for staff working there, and then based on that decide the appropriate level of harrassment?

NutLoose
24th Jan 2018, 15:03
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/businessman-david-meller-quits-education-post-amid-presidents-club-charity-dinner-sexism-storm/ar-AAv6ElD

"Asked whether the Prime Minister was concerned about the attendance of children and families minister Nadhim Zahawi at the event, a senior Number 10 source said: "My understanding is that Mr Zahawi clearly did attend the event briefly. "
He has himself said he was uncomfortable at it, leaving at the point at which the hostesses were introduced by the host.
I think he himself probably regrets the decision to go."


Is that go as in go to the event or as in leave early? They could have worded that better.

Gertrude the Wombat
24th Jan 2018, 15:08
Is it normal to attend an event at an upmarket venue ...
Not for me.

Nemrytter
24th Jan 2018, 15:13
Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 12 months?This is PPRuNe you're talking about, most members of this place have been hiding under a rock since the mid-eighties at best.

Grayfly
24th Jan 2018, 15:13
Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 12 months?


No, not in the last 12 months.

rog747
24th Jan 2018, 15:35
add to a corporate junket ---
free flowing booze scantily clad birds in high heels and short skirts and their black underwear showing ( apparently) and wealthy boozy middle aged men and you have the mix for a rather bawdy racey night

it's not rocket science - sorry but time has not yet evolved the male species yet

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 16:16
Apparently, £2 million was raised at this event.
What will become of these funds now?

This event has been going on for more than 30 years and has raised significant sums for charity.

Mariner9
24th Jan 2018, 16:24
Apparently, £2 million was raised at this event.
What will become of these funds now?



Use it to pay for next year's strippers :E

Krystal n chips
24th Jan 2018, 16:50
They're paid a £175 to attend a party and their underwear is specified. How can any of them claim that they didn't know what was expected of them?

Did the FT bint think that she would engage the City financiers in a deep and meaningful discussion about her yield curves? Or did she already know that Ugandan discussions were on the agenda?

Despite the fact this event has been mentioned on another thread, it's nice to see the same sentiments towards women being expressed.....and par for the course.

Thus, since when being asked to dress in a certain style means the guests duly felt they were somehow entitled to participate in unwanted sexual contact....

Anyway, looking at some of the auction prizes and.....oh look, guess what.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/24/great-ormond-street-return-presidents-club-donations-harassment-claims

On the other hand, if you are daft enough to want to pay to sit down with Boris over lunch....

Fareastdriver
24th Jan 2018, 16:57
That's a bit tame from you K&c. I was expecting twenty lines of vitriol.

charliegolf
24th Jan 2018, 17:02
Notwithstanding my obvious shortcomings, I would happily take £175 to be a host for a bunch of rich boozy women; and would not shout 'foul' were my bottom to be squeezed.

Now that's true, if a little tongue in cheek. Mock as you will. Outrage warning for the next sentence...

Why is it different for the girls who signed up?

CG

BehindBlueEyes
24th Jan 2018, 17:03
As soon as I heard about this whole debacle, I had the mental image of this:

https://youtu.be/u70TOmrN-OI


Similar sort of mentality, clearly.

charliegolf
24th Jan 2018, 17:06
... £50 worth? (Not being a user of prostitutes I have no idea how much that usually buys.)

A course of injections. I am told:E

CG

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 17:07
A female who was involved in recruiting the 'hostesses' has pointed out that the candidates were 'fully briefed' (sic) and were given the opportunity to withdraw.
The main event finished at midnight, but the hostesses were required to attend the 'after party' which ran until 2am.

Saintsman
24th Jan 2018, 17:08
Of course the women who attended knew what would happen, and would any of them complained if there wasn’t an FT mole attending. Doubt it.

And of course, on a women’s night out, they only talk of fluffy kittens...

annakm
24th Jan 2018, 17:14
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro.co.uk/2018/01/24/waitresses-sexually-harassed-secret-men-black-tie-dinner-7255684/amp/

“Women working at the prestigious charity dinner were groped and asked if they were prostitutes – while one guest even exposed his penis, according to the report by the Financial Times.“ :=

Apparently, the women employed were required to sign a ‘non disclosure’ form. Sounds like one of the guests should have done too!

:}:}:}

Trossie
24th Jan 2018, 17:17
... the male species ...An interesting zoological concept! How does this species procreate? A real 'Darwin Awards' winner to have an entirely 'male species'!!

£175 at the UK 'living wage' would be about 24hrs work. What were these waitresses expected to stay on to do?

One plus one doesn't seem to make two here, there's some info missing!

Jack D
24th Jan 2018, 18:07
All seems a bit tame to me . A few years ago a German insurance company threw a far better organized annual bash with colour coded wristbands for the hostesses, specific colours denoting availability, depending on ones pecking order in the company...
mind you it didn’t go down very well with the press probably rightly so, mainly for the squandering of shareholders money ,but the ladies were professionals and knew what they were getting into, or out of, just as these girls did ...

Ancient Observer
24th Jan 2018, 18:07
A journo needing to make a name for herself. So there will not be any exaggeration, and, of course, she will never report hear-say as fact.

However, the chaps at this event have no excuse if they did misbehave. The world has moved on.

pax britanica
24th Jan 2018, 18:09
Most sexual activity-and there is a lot of it about - is between a male and a female. Is there a silent majority of women who think the female cause is well served by creating a picture of the world where only men make advances and never women and that a huge proportion of women do not want to be the subject of the slightest hint of sexual attraction.
If we carry on as we are, as hinted at by the ever lovely Mm Deneuve how will any sexual activity take place in the future if men are too scared to go beyond 'Hello respected female person ' and all women are programmed to regard even that as unwanted sexual attention.

I do not make light of what can be most unpleasant and sometimes frightening experiences but surely a sense of proportion needs to come into play........

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 18:15
Was there an alternative menu for those of a different persuasion?

Checkboard
24th Jan 2018, 18:28
Why is it different for the girls who signed up?

You seriously need the difference between boys and girls explained to you?

Grayfly
24th Jan 2018, 18:50
You seriously need the difference between boys and girls explained to you?
Perhaps there are some who have an agenda to have that difference eradicated and to have a common purpose of thought and action regardless of biological starting point.

Might work, might not, time will tell.

Or it may just be too boring to succeed.

VP959
24th Jan 2018, 19:05
OK, so we all know that men and women behave badly when they are in single sex groups, plied with alcohol and presented with a few members of the opposite sex dressed to entice. It happens at "ladies nights" every bit as much as it happens at "men's nights" and whilst I personally don;t think it should happen at either, what I think is neither here nor there.

The main points here seem to be that the organisers had to be brain-dead not to realise that to have such an event now, when the topic of unwanted harassment of females by males in a position of authority is a hot topic in the news, was not the best idea they could have had.

They could easily have guessed at at least one media person would try and get a story out of it (although I'm surprised that it was the FT).

The flip side is that I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of the hostesses had a pretty damned good idea as to why they were being paid that much money and told to dress and act in the way they were. I'm not condoning the actions of those who assaulted them in any way, just saying that if you're paid £175 for a few hours work, told to wear a short skirt with your underwear exposed and chat up rich and powerful men, then there is a pretty good chance that some of those men are going to behave badly.

It would have been nice to see the names of those who committed these alleged assaults made public, and even better if, instead of creating a media story the FT journo had called the police and had statements taken, with a view to charges being brought against the perpetrators. I've no doubt that there must be witnesses - some bloke with his dick hanging out is unlikely to have only been seen by the hostess, is it?

goudie
24th Jan 2018, 19:15
Will the ft make up the loss to the charities, that felt they had to refuse the money raised, after the allegations made by the ft? I doubt if the final beneficiaries would care too much where or how money was come by anyway.

I can't help feeling that there was a strong touch of agent provocateurs in this event.

Is it any different to Service messes bussing in school teachers/nurses et al for the weekly hop. The ladies had very few illusions why they had been invited.

charliegolf
24th Jan 2018, 19:28
You seriously need the difference between boys and girls explained to you?

I'm not busy at the mo- knock yourself out.

CG

Grayfly
24th Jan 2018, 20:56
Right on programme, there's now a petition to hold the Presidents Club to account from someone who was shocked and wasn't at the event.

https://www.change.org/p/government-equalities-office-hold-employers-like-the-presidents-club-to-account/sign?utm_medium=email&utm_source=aa_sign&utm_campaign=236237&utm_content=&sfmc_tk=fDoceAuCyITM2y5ycakse5eo0Eaaa6B0Cxfowzv2A3eqijghdR7T uesp%2bbW774Pf&j=236237&sfmc_sub=397534441&l=32_HTML&u=43168287&mid=7259809&jb=10897

'hostesses were ordered to wear skimpy black outfits with matching underwear and heels. '

Pontius Navigator
24th Jan 2018, 22:01
I was harassed in hospital today. I was called sweetie. Fortunately the wife didn't hear, she might have burst her stitches.

BehindBlueEyes
24th Jan 2018, 22:13
I was harassed in hospital today. I was called sweetie. Fortunately the wife didn't hear, she might have burst her stitches.


Funny you should raise a turn of phrase used innocently.

I had a female member of staff go into absolute meltdown during a recent meeting. Someone had mentioned that he’d, “Get the girls in the office to run off a few copies.” She was livid! She said referring to women as “girls” was demeaning and patronising and that we were still in dark ages with our attitudes. There was a stunned silence as I truly believe several around the table thought she was joking. It got me thinking; I’ve actually said things like, “The boys in engineering might like to look at that.” Or “Let’s send a memo to the boys in HO.”

Am I being derogatory to males referring to them as “boys.”?

G-CPTN
24th Jan 2018, 22:24
I have just recalled being 'called out' by a female for addressing her as "Lady".
She responded (vehemently) "Don't call me 'lady'!" - which struck me as strange . . .

VP959
24th Jan 2018, 22:44
I have just recalled being 'called out' by a female for addressing her as "Lady".
She responded (vehemently) "Don't call me 'lady'!" - which struck me as strange . . .

Reminds me of an incident many years ago on the London Underground. It was pretty crowded, I was in a seat and when an elderly lady got on I stood up and offered her my seat. She was exceptionally indignant, and replied "I'll have you know that I am not THAT old, young man!", then turning her back to me and remaining standing.........

NutLoose
25th Jan 2018, 00:48
One thing that struck me is if the likes of Great Ormond Street can return £500,000 without batting an eyelid to be seen to be PC, they don't need a donation from me... end of the day £500,000 can treat a lot of sick kids, and as that is the sum of the monies raised, It assumes this happened every year.
I wonder if they also are returning the interest gained.

Krystal n chips
25th Jan 2018, 04:37
All seems a bit tame to me . A few years ago a German insurance company threw a far better organized annual bash with colour coded wristbands for the hostesses, specific colours denoting availability, depending on ones pecking order in the company...
mind you it didn’t go down very well with the press probably rightly so, mainly for the squandering of shareholders money ,but the ladies were professionals and knew what they were getting into, or out of, just as these girls did ...

With such attention to detail can we take it you attended this Jurassic period event then ?

Although many of the supportive, as in "can't see what all the fuss is about " posts from the chaps suggests their understanding of the 21st century and societal change is still firmly entrenched in this period....and any other than includes tertiary level cognitive development.

Here's but two of several articles ( feel free to read the others on the site ) which hardly suggests this was an evening dedicated to altruism and philanthropy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/24/the-guardian-view-on-the-presidents-club-we-are-all-complicit

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/jan/24/ive-never-done-the-presidents-club-before-and-i-wouldnt-again

And here's last nights C4 piece.....listen very carefully to the views of Jess Philips please.....

https://www.channel4.com/news/labours-jess-phillips-on-presidents-club-you-can-give-to-great-ormond-street-without-having-a-woman-sitting-in-your-lap

Who knows, they may just germinate a realisation that society is not entrenched in the past, despite the fervent (and foetid ) wishes of many that it does so.

obgraham
25th Jan 2018, 05:08
K&C:
Nobody is suggesting that this event was anything other than a leerfest for a bunch of rich old men, with a side benefit of charitable fundraising.

However, when 130 women parade into an event – "clad in a short, tight black skirt and high heels", should it not occur to at least a few of them that they were not simply there to refill the water glasses?

This is indeed an astounding lack of "situational awareness" as you pilot sorts are wont to say.

And no, this is not blaming the victim, but simply stating the bloody obvious.

rog747
25th Jan 2018, 06:52
i wonder what the scenario would have been had it been a city ladettes (birds) night out -

no doubt the cabaret may have been one or more of the chippendales type lads and many of the those so called now affronted ladies I am sure would have all been shouting ''get em off' and wanting to grab his big ***K or his peachy ***E
eh?

sitigeltfel
25th Jan 2018, 07:24
ITV getting all preachy about the dinner this morning. Will they mention this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUXm7EDWAAEI5Ca?format=jpg

Fitter2
25th Jan 2018, 08:16
GOSH should have kept the money and merely made a statement dissociating themselves from the event.

Vespasian imposed a Urine Tax (Latin: vectigal urinae) on the distribution of urine from public urinals in Rome's Cloaca Maxima (great sewer) system. (The Roman lower classes urinated into pots which were emptied into cesspools.) The urine collected from public urinals was sold as an ingredient for several chemical processes. It was used in tanning, and also by launderers as a source of ammonia to clean and whiten woollen togas. The buyers of the urine paid the tax.

The Roman historian Suetonius reports that when Vespasian's son Titus complained about the disgusting nature of the tax, his father held up a gold coin and asked whether he felt offended by its smell (sciscitans num odore offenderetur). When Titus said "No", Vespasian replied, "Yet it comes from urine" (Atqui ex lotio est).

The phrase Pecunia non olet is still used today to say that the value of money is not tainted by its origins.

B Fraser
25th Jan 2018, 08:46
I have just recalled being 'called out' by a female for addressing her as "Lady".
She responded (vehemently) "Don't call me 'lady'!" - which struck me as strange . . .



I hope you told her that you were simply giving her the benefit of the doubt but you now stood corrected.

Tinytim
25th Jan 2018, 09:27
A bunch of game-on tarts wearing next to nothing at a men only event......obviously there for fine dining and intellectual conversation.....
God in heaven protect us from these shrieking harridans and PC wimps....

Sometimes Moscow doesnt seem such a bad place to live after all!

SpringHeeledJack
25th Jan 2018, 09:39
I had a mate some years back, who to supplement his sporadic earnings from acting, moonlighted as a dancer in an all male troupe, a poor man's Chippendales, so to say. The stories that were imparted were shocking, bearing in mind the audiences were 99% female. What would be referred to as 'sexual assault' and 'sexual battery' these days were commonplace and some of the 'attackers' were very determined to get their way and were very aggressive when refused. All social groups catered to, mostly alcohol involved. Somehow acceptable then, perhaps now as well. He said that the best behaved were men in the Gay clubs that they performed in!

goudie
25th Jan 2018, 09:42
Ah! The moral high ground, nice and safe from life's realities, KC.

cavortingcheetah
25th Jan 2018, 09:44
What's the problem with a bunch of business whores mixing it with a gang of flesh sellers?

The great shame of it though lies in this for here is where the real hard rub comes into play.


Great Ormond Street said it would hand back the £530,000 given to it by the club between 2009 and 2016.

The Eveline London Children’s Hospital also said it was returning donations. London’s Royal Academy of Music said it will refund a £10,000 donation made in 2017 as a scholarship to a violin student.

That will be funding that is difficult to replace and where is the moral imperative to do so if it isn't from the same sort of sanctimonious people as attended the bash?

sitigeltfel
25th Jan 2018, 10:11
Has anyone on the Left ever bothered to ask why Brendan Cox (Labour golden boy and husband of murdered MP Jo Cox), had to leave the Save the Children Fund?

Bee Rexit
25th Jan 2018, 10:40
This you mean. "Save The Children executive quits after complaints of 'inappropriate behaviour'"

www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/nov/02/turbulence-at-save-the-children-share-your-stories-of-working-for-the-ngo

ExXB
25th Jan 2018, 11:38
Bring back legalised prostitution, with controls in place to ensure providers are there willingly and are not being exploited.

There is a need for the 'oldest profession'. Better that it is not hidden behind closed doors.

VP959
25th Jan 2018, 11:47
Bring back legalised prostitution, with controls in place to ensure providers are there willingly and are not being exploited.

There is a need for the 'oldest profession'. Better that it is not hidden behind closed doors.

I'm pretty sure that prostitution is legal here, and probably always has been.

I don't know all the laws relating to it, but have a feeling that the most usual offence is "living from immoral earnings", which was a law intended to stop the operation of brothels, with the brothel madam taking a cut of the take and living from it.

Certainly there are areas where prostitutes can be found openly "plying for trade" in most cities. Residents often complain when girls are working in residential areas, but I have a feeling that all the police can do is ask the girls to move on, or go after kerb crawlers. I'm not sure what the law is regarding kerb crawlers, but the police seem to have enough power to be able to move them on.

Given that prostitution is never likely to go away, I agree that it would make a lot more sense to make brothels legal and regulated, if only on the grounds of the health and safety of the prostitutes themselves.

yellowtriumph
25th Jan 2018, 12:19
I'm pretty sure that prostitution is legal here, and probably always has been.

I don't know all the laws relating to it, but have a feeling that the most usual offence is "living from immoral earnings", which was a law intended to stop the operation of brothels, with the brothel madam taking a cut of the take and living from it.

Certainly there are areas where prostitutes can be found openly "plying for trade" in most cities. Residents often complain when girls are working in residential areas, but I have a feeling that all the police can do is ask the girls to move on, or go after kerb crawlers. I'm not sure what the law is regarding kerb crawlers, but the police seem to have enough power to be able to move them on.

Given that prostitution is never likely to go away, I agree that it would make a lot more sense to make brothels legal and regulated, if only on the grounds of the health and safety of the prostitutes themselves.

Where I used to live there was a well known road providing prostitution services. The local residents not engaged in it were pretty hacked off with the pretty relentless 24hr kerb crawling that went on and felt that it reduced the quality of their lives as they went about their normal business. The police would occasionally attend, pull over the kerb crawlers and ask what they were up to. They would invariably say that they were 'just passing through'.

Then the council permanently closed off one end of the road so that it was no longer possible to 'just pass through'. I believe its called a 'light bulb' moment - but perhaps hopefully not a 'red light bulb' moment!

eal401
25th Jan 2018, 12:59
One simple question - why was the female FT journalist at a men only event?

I will not condemn men-only events however as plenty of female-only events exist.

Effluent Man
25th Jan 2018, 13:06
I think you will find that she was under cover( pun intended) pretending to be one of the paid " hostesses".

VP959
25th Jan 2018, 13:08
One simple question (and for the benefit of KnC, I do not condone the behaviour of the men involved. I suspect you'll be able to find offence elsewhere, it is a talent of yours. Just like most trolls.) - why was the female FT journalist at a men only event?

I will not condemn men-only events however as plenty of female-only events exist.

She went there posing as a worker, specifically one of the 150 hostesses that were employed for the event.

Her intention in going in undercover seems clear; she wanted to see if there were any examples of affluent men behaving badly at an all-male event. I suspect she was motivated by the recent media coverage of powerful men behaving inappropriately towards women, and in turn I strongly suspect that the media focus on that was driven by the election of a US president who allegedly admitted to groping women.

Edited to add: I cross posted this with the post above.

Gertrude the Wombat
25th Jan 2018, 13:16
I suspect she was motivated by the recent media coverage of powerful men behaving inappropriately towards women, and in turn I strongly suspect that the media focus on that was driven by the election of a US president who allegedly admitted to groping women.
She may simply have been motivated by reports or rumours of sexual assaults taking place in previous years, and thought this could make a story if true.

Which it was and did. You do get some competent journos doing their job properly.

G-CPTN
25th Jan 2018, 13:22
I have seen references to the allegation that some of the hostesses were, in fact, prostitutes.

When you consider the social scene in most cities, nightclubs appear to be sources of sexual services (whether paid for or gratis) - so what was the problem with this event?

As I mentioned earlier, these girls were told what to expect and were given the option to withdraw.

As I see it, they were paid with the expectation that some ribaldry would occur.

I presume that further services were negotiable at extra cost?

VP959
25th Jan 2018, 13:45
I have seen references to the allegation that some of the hostesses were, in fact, prostitutes.

When you consider the social scene in most cities, nightclubs appear to be sources of sexual services (whether paid for or gratis) - so what was the problem with this event?

As I mentioned earlier, these girls were told what to expect and were given the option to withdraw.

As I see it, they were paid with the expectation that some ribaldry would occur.

I presume that further services were negotiable at extra cost?

Only once have I been at an event where I was told beforehand that there would be some "entertainment ladies" available, if I was interested, and that they would make it clear that they were available if required. This was a party in Japan, hosted by a well-known Japanese radar manufacturer.

I was told by my host that it was normal to provide some "entertainment ladies", as the guests from the Japanese Ministry of Telecommunications often asked for them......................

(to be clear, I did not accept any offers!).

rog747
25th Jan 2018, 13:48
I think you will find that she was under cover( pun intended) pretending to be one of the paid " hostesses".

so because of that planted FT bint the charities now stupidly cut their noses off to spite their faces and lose out on millions of £££ of donations coz of a bit lad ''fun'' that the so called hostesses knew what they were getting in to

well done FT

goudie
25th Jan 2018, 13:50
As a matter of interest, did any of the genuine hostesses make a formal complaint regarding the men's behavior?

G-CPTN
25th Jan 2018, 14:22
Undercover reporter: Hostesses 'groped at men-only event' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42799595/undercover-reporter-hostesses-groped-at-men-only-event).


She agreed that she went 'knowing that such behaviour had occurred at previous events' . . .

SpringHeeledJack
25th Jan 2018, 14:57
I was listening to the radio earlier and during a phone-in, a veteran of 12years service as a hostess (to supplement her professional dancing career) explained that being a party hostess entailed being happy, smiley, friendly, warm, helpful, pleasant looking, vivacious. Definitely NOT a waitress, barmaid, or server. More someone responsible for the mood of the event. She said that in her 12 years she'd never witnessed anyone being sexually assaulted or attacked. If anyone of the inebriated guests got 'too friendly' they were rebuffed firmly, but kindly with humour and charm.

sitigeltfel
25th Jan 2018, 15:01
One simple question - why was the female FT journalist at a men only event?

It will be interesting to see how the FT fares after this stunt. Their main audience is the male dominated business sector and sticking the knife into your target market strikes me as not being a sound business strategy!

Dutystude
25th Jan 2018, 16:53
I wonder how many of the ‘Maiden-Aunts’ currently swooning and reaching for the smelling salts spent some time this week raising a toast to good old Robbie Burns.

That’s Robbie Burns the sexually incontinent predatory male with a particular taste in seducing (abusing in modern parlance) young, unprotected working girls.

What a scamp he was

NutLoose
25th Jan 2018, 16:56
I suppose a womens hen's night with the likes of the Chippendales is a saintly affair..

Gertrude the Wombat
25th Jan 2018, 17:47
I wonder how many of the ‘Maiden-Aunts’ currently swooning and reaching for the smelling salts spent some time this week raising a toast to good old Robbie Burns.

That’s Robbie Burns the sexually incontinent predatory male with a particular taste in seducing (abusing in modern parlance) young, unprotected working girls.

What a scamp he was

This is usually explained in great detail in the speeches, it's not exactly hidden My favourite Burns night venue is a Cambridge college where the former Master's wife would surprise some of the foreign students somewhat by making a rather obscene address "to the laddies".

Gertrude the Wombat
25th Jan 2018, 17:49
I suppose a womens hen's night with the likes of the Chippendales is a saintly affair..
"The likes of the Chippendales" would, however, probably be willing participants. Some of the girls in this case might well have been, but others reportedly weren't aware that the punters had been told they were free to sexually assault them.

Effluent Man
25th Jan 2018, 18:11
As I said earlier in the thread I'm not a prude. I've been to the kind of parties that the News of the World used to make a living from reporting the goings on at for decades. But all those who went there knew exactly what was going to happen over the course of the evening.

This is completely different. I will admit that if those " hostesses" chose to take part and were fully informed of what would be happening then I have no objection per se to it taking place. But I don't suppose that we will ever discover if that was in fact the nature of it.

It's not all a one way street admittedly. We met a lady at one party who was an up market dominatrix, charging £250 an hour for her services. It would be hard to put forward a case for her being exploited.

BehindBlueEyes
25th Jan 2018, 18:20
You could almost argue that the organisers were technically acting as pimps as, although they were paying the females, they were making money out of their services. It reminds me very much of the geisha system in Japan; women paid to make men feel good by stroking their egos, therefore, they are more likely to part with their cash.

Would the charities have benefitted as much had it been a simple posh dinner ( plus wives/ girlfriends) with the opportunity to bid or raffle for some extravagant prizes?

treadigraph
25th Jan 2018, 18:20
We met a lady at one party who was an up market dominatrix, charging £250 an hour for her services

Did you have a whip round EM?

I will admit that if those " hostesses" chose to take part and were fully informed of what would be happening then I have no objection per se to it taking place.

Me neither, it's a matter for the individual; I have no wish to be a part of such an event though, and I'd be disappointed if my friends or colleagues were.

Dutystude
25th Jan 2018, 18:33
This is usually explained in great detail in the speeches, it's not exactly hidden My favourite Burns night venue is a Cambridge college where the former Master's wife would surprise some of the foreign students somewhat by making a rather obscene address "to the laddies".

Of course Gertie but, although by modern lights a completely disreputable piece of work, he is still lionised and celebrated. Including by those getting their panties in a bunch over the subject of this thread.

How odd.

Mr Optimistic
25th Jan 2018, 19:57
The whole thing sounds gruesome, including the faux Scottish bash.

Jack D
25th Jan 2018, 20:08
The hysteria is getting out of control as a thoroughly respectable and very erudite woman recently said to me “it’s all a bit of a storm in a C cup “
Pity about the lost charity monies

KelvinD
25th Jan 2018, 23:29
Hysteria? The morning the story broke, BBC radio interviewed the FT reporter who broke the story. And in her opening couple of sentences, she described how men had "stuck their hands up her skirt". If that had happened to any female relative of mine, there would have been bloodshed, never mind your so-called "hysteria"!
Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to respect others and in particular to respect women.
People who behave in this appalling manner should be, quite simply, put down.

RatherBeFlying
26th Jan 2018, 02:35
A cursory reading of the reports is that one group of ladies took offense while the other group looked at it as opportunity:E

The recruiters screwed up big time:}

Go Smoke
26th Jan 2018, 04:08
I can attest to the frothing mess I saw women get into at chippendale gigs. In my dim distant past I used to do security for them. I would be one of the few males mixed with the audience. I used to get grabbed, pinched, and slapped black and blue. I took to wearing a cricket box to protect my nads such were the assaults.
I never saw men behave in such a manner en masse.

Effluent Man
26th Jan 2018, 04:58
A cursory reading of the reports is that one group of ladies took offense while the other group looked at it as opportunity:E

The recruiters screwed up big time:}

And that, in a nutshell, sums up the problem. Mrs EM in her youth worked as a Saturday girl in a frozen food shop where the manager was in the habit of touching up the young female employees. She recalls it with a degree of humour and thinks that it just went with the territory. Other young women were quite clearly horrified and offended by such shenanigans.

I think given the circumstances it really should be expected that men should not grope young women unless the gropee displays some kind of invitation for that to happen. Of course we then come up against the problem of the woman in a position subservience to a man who thinks that her acceptance of such behaviour is part of the deal. That really is unacceptable.

sitigeltfel
26th Jan 2018, 07:32
It is widely known, that Labours Keith Vaz is a big fan of all male parties, where young meat is freely available!

;)

NutLoose
26th Jan 2018, 08:01
I bet it makes for interesting times back home for those males that did attend.. I bet their wives are over the moon with the revelations.

ORAC
26th Jan 2018, 11:01
It’s not really about the girls. The whole point is to stick a whole load of Alpha males in a room and watch as they try to show they are top of the heap by outspending each other in the auction and how much better than they are at attracting younger fertile females. It goes back to the behaviour of the ape pack - and is exactly what is aimed for b6 those collecting for charity.

get them alone in their offices or with their families and they won’t behave the same way - and won’t donate anywhere near as much.

Yes, it’s puerile male chest thumping, that’s the point. It’s pointless getting hypocritical about it, it is - literally - the nature of the beast. And searching out and stopping all similar ego stroking charity events will only in the long run the recipients.

The charities in this case have handed back £500,000+ . Multiply that ten fold in the rest of this year alone.

TURIN
26th Jan 2018, 11:17
Hysteria? The morning the story broke, BBC radio interviewed the FT reporter who broke the story. And in her opening couple of sentences, she described how men had "stuck their hands up her skirt". If that had happened to any female relative of mine, there would have been bloodshed, never mind your so-called "hysteria"!
Call me old fashioned but I was brought up to respect others and in particular to respect women.
People who behave in this appalling manner should be, quite simply, put down.

Spot on, apart from the last line.

A short test for all the dinasoars on here that think this sort of behaviour is ok, If you have a daughter and she was put in that room, to be subjected to such behaviour, would you be happy about it?

Training Risky
26th Jan 2018, 11:50
Spot on, apart from the last line.

A short test for all the dinasoars on here that think this sort of behaviour is ok, If you have a daughter and she was put in that room, to be subjected to such behaviour, would you be happy about it?

Pure hysteria and hand-wringing. A bit sinister, like the thought police, or the Handmaid's Tale - telling us all how to think. This kind of virtue-signalling has brought many many men into court on false charges - read the news.

Any underage daughter of mine would be kept well away from such an event and line of work.

Any 'of-age' daughter of mine is a sentient adult and free to chose her own way in life. I am sure that with the right through-life training, she would take one look at the:

1. Hostess uniform and underwear requirements,
2. The large bundle of cash on offer for 'hosting',
3. The location, clientele and atmosphere,
4. Non-disclosure agreement (bit of a giveaway TBH!!!)

and refuse said cash with the words "No thanks, I am not a prostitute or a snowflake!. Any other women here with the right to work can crack on."

TURIN
26th Jan 2018, 12:38
I am sure that with the right through-life training...

Yes, the world is full of people that have that benefit isn't it.

For those that haven't what you are saying is they are too dumb to know better so, tough!

This is 2018, not the middle ages. All men should know better.
Ask yourself another question, if there was video footage of you at this event sliding your hand up the dress of one of these women, how would your family react? Mine would be appalled, rightly so.

Condoning this sort of behaviour is disgraceful. Shame on all of you who do so.

pax britanica
26th Jan 2018, 12:45
Should charities return money from such events ?

To me-being a cynical they are only doing it out of political correctness and a fear of a tabloid headline. There is no moral reason to give the money back-it was charity event people paid huge amounts to attend a probably modest dinner -the girls weren't strippers (is that a word one can use today) and they certainly should not have been subject to unwarranted physical attention but have their been any complaints to the police (ever been to an old bill charity event !!!!!) Has anyone been arrested, was the money proceeds of crime, .

Sure a bit of an error of judgement on some peoples behalf but as long as women only events and venues exist why shouldnt mens events.i am not talking about things like golf club membership.

we do seem to be becoming a very prudish lot l, except of course when on holiday in foreign lands when its apparently perfectly ok to become disgustingly drunk , wear inappropriate clothing and get very 'engaged' with the opposite sex in public , even though the public might be a pleasant open space full of children in traditonally conservative and catholic countries .

Gertrude the Wombat
26th Jan 2018, 12:58
To me-being a cynical they are only doing it out of political correctness and a fear of a tabloid headline. There is no moral reason to give the money back...
May be fear of legal challenge. For example the charity might have in its rules that it does not benefit from the profits of prostitution or from the profits of making victims available for sexual assault, and there's always going to be some clever clogs somewhere who will launch a JR or whatever if you ignore such rules.

Grayfly
26th Jan 2018, 13:37
what you are saying is

All men should know better.

how would your family react? Mine would be appalled, rightly so.

Condoning this sort of behaviour is disgraceful. Shame on all of you who do so.

You appear to be implying that everyone contributing to this discussion condones improper behaviour and we should all share your view. I hope that's not the case as discussion becomes rather limited.

Krystal n chips
26th Jan 2018, 13:54
Should charities return money from such events ?

To me-being a cynical they are only doing it out of political correctness and a fear of a tabloid headline. There is no moral reason to give the money back-it was charity event people paid huge amounts to attend a probably modest dinner -the girls weren't strippers (is that a word one can use today) and they certainly should not have been subject to unwarranted physical attention but have their been any complaints to the police (ever been to an old bill charity event !!!!!) Has anyone been arrested, was the money proceeds of crime, .

Sure a bit of an error of judgement on some peoples behalf but as long as women only events and venues exist why shouldnt mens events.i am not talking about things like golf club membership.

we do seem to be becoming a very prudish lot l, except of course when on holiday in foreign lands when its apparently perfectly ok to become disgustingly drunk , wear inappropriate clothing and get very 'engaged' with the opposite sex in public , even though the public might be a pleasant open space full of children in traditonally conservative and catholic countries .

26th January ( bit early really ) and the first nomination for the Annual " JB Understatement of the Year" award goes to......see above

The repercussions from this "bit of an error " are still emerging ....here's some to be going on with....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/25/presidents-club-furore-claims-labour-scalp-as-peer-ejected-by-party

As for the modest food and the cost, well lets say it clearly wasn't attended for the culinary delights on offer.

There's every moral reason, and it's nice to see that morals do still prevail, when it comes to this returning the money raised by this event.....this is 2018 for a start.

Prudery ?......I suggest you think of a sexual activity, then do a search for the subject...you may be amazed at what you find. However, there's just one rather relevant difference......consensual, and.... informed consent perhaps ?.

And then there was that "little bit of paper" the women were required to sign.....why should that be if this was just a purely charity fund raising dinner then ? and why has the club now closed I wonder ?

As for the men / women only clubs and events, fine ( did you watch the interview with Jess Philips in this respect and note her response ? ) but not when it comes down to the level of abuse that allegedly occurred in this instance.

But I do agree that the British abroad can, and are, objectionable to everybody as you say. A positive embarrassment in fact and to be avoided wherever possible if you are can do so.

goudie
26th Jan 2018, 14:05
To some of the ' disgusted from.......wherever', who've posted on here may I suggest you send a meaningful sum of money to those charities that have felt obligated to return their money gifted by this event.

Highway1
26th Jan 2018, 14:27
Should charities return money from such events ?

To me-being a cynical they are only doing it out of political correctness and a fear of a tabloid headline. There is no moral reason to give the money back-it was charity event people paid huge amounts to attend a probably modest dinner -the girls weren't strippers (is that a word one can use today) and they certainly should not have been subject to unwarranted physical attention but have their been any complaints to the police (ever been to an old bill charity event !!!!!) Has anyone been arrested, was the money proceeds of crime, .


More to the point, can they legally return money.

The Trustees of the Charity have a legal duty to demonstrate that refusing money is in the commercial interests of the charity - if they already have the money then they have to demonstrate to the Charity Commission that making such payments would be in the interests of the charity. In this particular case who would they return the money to as the Presidents club no longer exists and that is before you get into any taxation issues. If they try to return the money to individuals they may well refuse because it could affect their tax liability..

Far better just to take the money and treat some sick kids..

G-CPTN
26th Jan 2018, 14:40
I bet the animal charities will accept the money.

RAT 5
26th Jan 2018, 14:47
I bet the animal charities will accept the money.

From their behaviour that sounds appropriate.

ImageGear
26th Jan 2018, 14:50
If you have a daughter and she was put in that room, to be subjected to such behaviour, would you be happy about it?


I have no desire to get personal in this thread however, if, like me, you ask what your daughters are going to be getting up to when they go out, they would definitely not be "put in that room". If they were old enough to make the decision to go and be "put in the room" of their own accord, I suggest that something else is amiss with their lifestyle.

Imagegear

Dutystude
26th Jan 2018, 14:59
Spot on, apart from the last line.

A short test for all the dinasoars on here that think this sort of behaviour is ok, If you have a daughter and she was put in that room, to be subjected to such behaviour, would you be happy about it?

I see you subscribe to the Cathy Newman debating method: if your oponent does not, entirely, share your outrage at a certain event but attempts to insert a sense of proportion you immediately raise a straw man hypothesis.

Do you have any evidence at all that anyone’s daughter was put in that room?

I have daughters, (granddaughters, sister, nieces); I wouldn’t put any of them in that room. But my daughters - adults in law - are free to conduct their lives as they see fit.

If my daughter decided that £175 was good earnings for a couple of hours spent providing eye-candy and slapping away the wandering hands of some boozed up captains of industry and the like that is her business.

However, I would have advised that: if you are going to descend into a what-happens-in-Vegas-stays-in-Vegas bear pit and strut around in your f#@k-me heels with your butt-cheeks hanging out, don’t come bleating to me if you pick up a few ‘paw prints.’

We often wonder how we have raised a generation of snowflakes. I think one reason is that somewhere along the way we closed the ‘School of Hard Knocks.’

G-CPTN
26th Jan 2018, 15:02
I believe that there are people (male and female) for whom the opportunity to be 'discovered' by the likes of Harvey Weinstein would be attractive.
WRT the recent event, the possibility of being 'picked up' by a sugar daddy might also feature in the aspirations of some.
Why do footballers have no end of offers of sexual encounters?
For others, think of groupies looking for one-night-stands and you might begin to understand the thinking of some participants - just as it is for many on nights out in most cities. That doesn't make it right - but there are people for whom that is their way of life.

For those who were hoodwinked into accepting the job, there was always the possibility of saying no and administering a slap.

Gertrude the Wombat
26th Jan 2018, 17:58
And then there was that "little bit of paper" the women were required to sign.....why should that be if this was just a purely charity fund raising dinner then ?
It's perfectly reasonable to be required to sign something saying that they won't rush off to their broker to act on some overheard business gossip.

It's not, of course, reasonable, and surely to goodness cannot be legally enforceable, to sign something to say that you won't report any crimes you happen to witness (or even be a victim to).

Krystal n chips
26th Jan 2018, 18:21
I see you subscribe to the Cathy Newman debating method: if your oponent does not, entirely, share your outrage at a certain event but attempts to insert a sense of proportion you immediately raise a straw man hypothesis.

Do you have any evidence at all that anyone’s daughter was put in that room?

I have daughters, (granddaughters, sister, nieces); I wouldn’t put any of them in that room. But my daughters - adults in law - are free to conduct their lives as they see fit.

If my daughter decided that £175 was good earnings for a couple of hours spent providing eye-candy and slapping away the wandering hands of some boozed up captains of industry and the like that is her business.

However, I would have advised that: if you are going to descend into a what-happens-in-Vegas-stays-in-Vegas bear pit and strut around in your f#@k-me heels with your butt-cheeks hanging out, don’t come bleating to me if you pick up a few ‘paw prints.’

We often wonder how we have raised a generation of snowflakes. I think one reason is that somewhere along the way we closed the ‘School of Hard Knocks.’

Ah the "School of Hard Knocks ".....a much fabled establishment here on JB...so lets think.... bring back corporal punishment in schools ?....public executions ?....dunking alleged witches ?.....remove the right to vote for women ?...bear baiting ?....transportation ?...the poor / workhouse ?...no benefits ?

The so called "generation of snowflakes " are far from immune to the vagaries of life but, they are entitled to benefit from societal progress and development.

And that includes treating women not as sex objects to be leered at, pawed over and subjected to unwarranted sexual advances from....men... but with respect.

GTW..Client confidentiality is one thing and that's well established. However, this has no relevance to the evening in question.....as these ladies explain....

https://www.channel4.com/news/non-disclosure-agreements-debate-with-hannah-reed-and-samantha-mangwana

VP959
26th Jan 2018, 18:40
It's perfectly reasonable to be required to sign something saying that they won't rush off to their broker to act on some overheard business gossip.

It's not, of course, reasonable, and surely to goodness cannot be legally enforceable, to sign something to say that you won't report any crimes you happen to witness (or even be a victim to).

My memory of the detail of contract law is not as clear as it once was, but I do remember that some clauses in contracts can be unenforceable if they are superseded by law, either contract or criminal.

The common example given is where someone pays for a service that would expect a certain duty of care, say storing their coat in a paid-for coat storage facility at a big party or the like, where there is a sign saying that the proprietor takes no responsibility for any damage or loss. Such a term is unenforceable, as you have entered into a formal contract (there has been an offer, an acceptance of that offer and the exchange of a consideration) where the implied expectation is that the proprietor WILL take all reasonable measures to prevent damage or loss to your property whilst looking after it for you.


In this case, no NDA would prevent the disclosure of an form of criminal assault, be that common assault or sexual assault, so any of the ladies that signed this NDA are perfectly free to report any alleged crime.

SpringHeeledJack
26th Jan 2018, 20:22
The agencies that provide freelancers for 'gigs' (short term contracts) get ALL their personnel to sign a contract that sets out expectations of conduct, one of which will be to respect the confidentiality of the companies/staff/property and intellectual property that they are likely to come into contact with in the course of their work. As stated, criminal acts would NOT be covered by any NDA signed.

Pontius Navigator
26th Jan 2018, 21:49
Right, so I return all the money. Well unless I have reserves u am going to struggle finding the spare cash.

Now who am I going to give it to? Nightmare trying to trace donors many of whom may wish to avoid the publicity, especially from earlier events.

Now while it is possible that such events took place previously it was neither alleged nor proven.

I wonder whether this refunding is more smoke and mirrors than reality.

Effluent Man
26th Jan 2018, 23:29
[QUOTE=G-CPTN;10032328]

Why do footballers have no end of offers of sexual encounters?

I remember Peter Crouch being interviewed and being asked "What would you have been if you had not become a Premiership footballer?" He replied : "A virgin".

Ogre
27th Jan 2018, 00:57
GTW..Client confidentiality is one thing and that's well established. However, this has no relevance to the evening in question.....as these ladies explain....

https://www.channel4.com/news/non-di...antha-mangwana (https://www.channel4.com/news/non-disclosure-agreements-debate-with-hannah-reed-and-samantha-mangwana)Was it just me, or was the comrade from the TUC looking daggers at the interviewer in the opening seconds?

KnC
And that includes treating women not as sex objects to be leered at, pawed over and subjected to unwarranted sexual advances from....men... but with respect.So what about those careers and roles where woman actively encourage men to treat them as sex objects and be leered at? As someone else mentioned, if there is a precedent that members of the female sex will encourage the attentions of men in order to procure monetary or materiel favours, and that members of the female sex actively seek out rich men for this reason, surely the respectful thing to do would be for men not to enter into these transactions.

And how do you stand where it is a man seeking the attention from other men?

goudie
27th Jan 2018, 09:03
When my brother was in the Met police I went to a couple of their stag nights
The female entertainment left very little to the imagination

sitigeltfel
27th Jan 2018, 09:19
The Archbishop of Canterbury has weighed in against all male events.

He has obviously forgotten about the last supper!

Trossie
27th Jan 2018, 09:37
... ... ...

But I do agree that the British abroad can, and are, objectionable to everybody as you say. A positive embarrassment in fact and to be avoided wherever possible if you are can do so.

Speak for yourself, Komrad. We obviously travel in different circles! I have usually found 'the British abroad' that I have encountered to be very pleasant and have an interest in their travels (I have even had a 'local' somewhere, when finding out that we live in God's Own Country, reply "Oh good, you're British"!). Maybe your travels abroad have been more restricted to these circles: Woman going to Ibiza can?t even say it properly (http://newsthump.com/2018/01/26/woman-going-to-ibiza-cant-even-say-it-properly/) ??

I remember speaking to a (woman) cabin crew from Italy who was now working in Britain and she said that she found working in Britain to be far more pleasant, as in Italy she was constantly being groped by Italian passengers.

Let us not be too harsh on the British on all of this: Is this really a British 'problem' or is this rather a British 'solution' where here this is being reported while in so many other parts of the world the exact same will be carrying on but just 'brushed under the carpet'?

Pontius Navigator
27th Jan 2018, 10:45
Trossie, quite. I won't cite frequent bad or boorish begaviiuy by other nationalities and cultures.

ElectroVlasic
27th Jan 2018, 14:07
Hostesses 'flashed at and groped' during Dorchester gala | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5304655/Hostesses-flashed-groped-Dorchester-gala.html)
Daily Mail article describes the unfair exploitation of women, along with right hand side bar filled with pictures and links to more articles that also largely exploit women. Par for the course...

If the investigation by the FT is accurate, I’m surprised that so many of the great and good would want to be part of such stag night type behaviour. Even if it does raise £2 million for charity, is it really appropriate in this day and age?
I'm sure a lot of things rich and poor men do behind closed doors are not appropriate in this day and age. The more rich, the more they feel entitled, in my experience. The desire for some lecherous adventures is pretty widespread amongst all economic classes. It's only moderated by what women and society as a whole will allow. Where liberties are granted, liberties will be taken.

What was the FT journalist expecting, cucumber sandwiches and lemonade?. I would not be surprised if she was hoping to be groped in order to gain "column inches" and improve her "Journalistic" credentials. Indeed she may have encouraged it but to say so would not be politically correct. Was she also dressed as a "Tart"?

She got exactly what she went there for, a story. She was fully briefed ahead of time on what she should expect, including being groped and being propositioned. I'm confident she'd do it all over again if given the chance. Such visibility has to be a big boost to her career, even if she had to act like a tart to get the story.

EGLD
27th Jan 2018, 14:14
But I do agree that the British abroad can, and are, objectionable to everybody as you say. A positive embarrassment in fact and to be avoided wherever possible if you are can do so.

Racism on the left is sneaky, but it's always there, and just as vicious as the racism on the right :mad:

ElectroVlasic
27th Jan 2018, 14:50
I had a mate some years back, who to supplement his sporadic earnings from acting, moonlighted as a dancer in an all male troupe, a poor man's Chippendales, so to say. The stories that were imparted were shocking, bearing in mind the audiences were 99% female. What would be referred to as 'sexual assault' and 'sexual battery' these days were commonplace and some of the 'attackers' were very determined to get their way and were very aggressive when refused. All social groups catered to, mostly alcohol involved. Somehow acceptable then, perhaps now as well. He said that the best behaved were men in the Gay clubs that they performed in!
Females behaving badly when they don't get what they want? Especially when liquored up? Especially when competing with other females? Tell me it ain't so!

Spot on, apart from the last line.
A short test for all the dinasoars on here that think this sort of behaviour is ok, If you have a daughter and she was put in that room, to be subjected to such behaviour, would you be happy about it?
Any moderately attractive female has fended off so many unwanted male advances in so many different situations by the time she is of working age that her 'radar' would pick this one up from a million miles away. If not, it might be a lesson from the school of hard knocks.


I believe that there are people (male and female) for whom the opportunity to be 'discovered' by the likes of Harvey Weinstein would be attractive.
WRT the recent event, the possibility of being 'picked up' by a sugar daddy might also feature in the aspirations of some.
Why do footballers have no end of offers of sexual encounters?
For others, think of groupies looking for one-night-stands and you might begin to understand the thinking of some participants - just as it is for many on nights out in most cities. That doesn't make it right - but there are people for whom that is their way of life.
Life ain't fair. To me one of the ironies is that being a very attractive person can be so limiting. We all remember that girl in school who blossomed early and whose life was mostly about getting hit on by every boy who got a look at her chest? Attractive people soon figure out what their "assets" are and it surely impacts their life choices. Some say it allows them an easy path in life, but personally I'm glad I was left alone to figure out where my brain would take me rather than my looks. Some manage to do well with both brains and looks but it seems those with looks tend to not develop the brains as much as they would otherwise.


For those who were hoodwinked into accepting the job, there was always the possibility of saying no and administering a slap.
Indeed.

annakm
27th Jan 2018, 16:04
Apparently, LBC radio received quite a few calls from some women that had been at the event saying they didn’t know what the reporter was talking about. They hadn’t seen or received unwelcome attention.

What is the truth?

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Jan 2018, 16:22
What is the truth?
All of it? That only some of the men committed sexual assaults on only some of the women?

goudie
27th Jan 2018, 16:48
This thread, ironically, appears to be turning into a willy waving contest!

G-CPTN
27th Jan 2018, 18:29
Walk-on girls (https://www.bettingpro.com/category/darts/premier-league-darts-walk-on-girls-our-top-7-darts-babes-201402130041/) will no longer accompany darts players (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sports/football/darts-walk-on-girls-axed-to-make-sport-a-family-affair-but-top-players-lead-backlash-with-petition-to-reinstate-them/ar-AAvde50) at tournaments.
Will Formula one grid girls be next?

I've not been to a 'Motor Show' Press Day for a couple of decades - do they still have scantily-clad females draped on the bonnets?

Certain females are criticising their loss of employment opportunity.

EGLD
27th Jan 2018, 20:27
We appear to be going through another period of puritanism via self-righteous grandstanding on Twitter

There will be nothing remotely fun left once this lot are finished, it's a race to the bottom where everyone is trying to be more offended than the next person to out virtue signal each other, and everyone will be silently obedient because these new guardians of our morals will not rest until they have hounded the unbelievers from their jobs or public life

“Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under the omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

G-CPTN
27th Jan 2018, 21:09
Can you still buy 'girly' magazines?
Fiesta, Mayfair, Penthouse, Escort, Men Only, Playboy, Club International, Titbits, Health and Efficiency? - or is it all on line only now?

My appetite was sated when we moved to Denmark and 'porn' was freely available (and not on the topshelf).
Since then I've never been (worked) in an environment where soft porn magazines were circulated (unlike my first employer).

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Jan 2018, 21:39
Can you still buy 'girly' magazines?
Fiesta, Mayfair, Penthouse, Escort, Men Only, Playboy, Club International, Titbits, Health and Efficiency? - or is it all on line only now?
I was wondering that a couple of hours ago!

tartare
27th Jan 2018, 22:47
I can report from the newsagents down here in Orstraya where I buy my geeky planespotter mags that said tit(les) still reside on the top shelf in plastic bags...

B Fraser
28th Jan 2018, 08:53
The Archbishop of Canterbury has weighed in against all male events.

He has obviously forgotten about the last supper!


Were there any women at the penultimate supper ?

;)

treadigraph
28th Jan 2018, 10:25
No but there was a kangaroo...

yellowtriumph
28th Jan 2018, 18:29
... Can you still buy 'girly' magazines?
Fiesta, Mayfair, Penthouse, Escort, Men Only, Playboy, Club International, Titbits, Health and Efficiency? - or is it all on line only now? ...
.

I think all the shelves have been cleared now, ‘Spick and Span’ you might say.

Grayfly
28th Jan 2018, 19:46
It's all kicking off in the world of darts now, the girls are complaining that their income will suffer.

From the BBC website:

Darts girls: More than 15,000 sign petition to reverse walk-on ban

Although some people have accused the sport of being stuck in the past, and say the role is demeaning.

However model Charlotte Wood who is one of the best known walk-on girls on the darts circuit has spoken out against the ban.

"Wow 10k signatures in 24 hours! A big thank you for everyone's support," she wrote on Twitter.

The 29-year-old said her "rights are being taken away" and darts accounts for 60% of her income.

Ogre
29th Jan 2018, 03:33
Such visibility has to be a big boost to her career, even if she had to act like a tart to get the story

...and we're back to Hollywood.....

Apparently, LBC radio received quite a few calls from some women that had been at the event saying they didn’t know what the reporter was talking about. They hadn’t seen or received unwelcome attention.


Or they took it in their stride and didn't think it was worthy of being classed as harassment!

Will Formula one grid girls be next?

Been tried on a number of occasions both on F1 cars and Moto GP, not to mention car shows, bike shows, boat shows, and everywhere else scantily glad females are used to entice male customers to pay attention to what they are advertising.

ElectroVlasic
29th Jan 2018, 12:42
...and we're back to Hollywood.....
Nothing wrong with undercover journalism, IMHO.

Or they took it in their stride and didn't think it was worthy of being classed as harassment!
Hands up dresses pretty clearly crosses the line, IMHO. Most "gents" understand "look but don't touch" as the standard operating procedure.

Been tried on a number of occasions both on F1 cars and Moto GP, not to mention car shows, bike shows, boat shows, matrimony, and everywhere else scantily glad females are used to entice male customers to pay attention to what they are advertising.
Fixed it for ya! :ok: