Monitoring ADF

[drpixie]

Hi,

CASA (I believe it was a Australia only special) used to require us to monitor the NDB tone during an NDB approach, whenever below LSA. Used to cause consternation, confusion, and explanations when we had new NZ or US crews.

That requirement seems to have quietly disappeared from AIP. We've had a good look through the current AIP etc, and it now seems silent on the matter.

Has anyone else noticed this disappear? :confused: Or has it just been moved to somewhere obscure? :ugh:

[Shot Nancy]

What’s an ADF?

[rep]

It used to be on the IR testing form. It was a box you ticked as the examiner.

[ACMS]

So if you didn’t monitor the ident whilst conducting an NDB approach how else would you have known about a failure?
These were old fashioned steam driven ADF’s and not the EFIS type that display the received ident for you.

I think that comes under common sense and Airmanship.

[C441]

What’s an ADF?
A piece of equipment in the aircraft used to get updated cricket and footy scores.
It can also be used to get actual weather conditions if the cricket or footy is being played close to the airport in question. ( eg: “ Despite the heavy rain, hail and Gail blowing from the Vodabank end, the quality of the play........”)

[morno]

Ahhh those were the days. Flying Darwin out to Groote at stupid o’clock in a piston single, reading the paper while listening to the gardening show on ABC with all the oldies calling in because they’d wet the bed (how else was I supposed to take my mind off the fact that I had absolutely no where to go if my donk failed).

Sorry what was the original question? Oh that’s right, yes ABC radio was constantly identing

[compressor stall]

Speaking of the ABC in the NT, the Jabiru ABC transmitter on 747 (apparently) served as an NDB letdown more than once pre GPS

[morno]

It was a bloody good transmitter that one, could hear it all over the Top End clear as at all hours of the day or night

[zanthrus]

Wish there was a "like" button for Morno's post. :ok:

[Lead Balloon]

That’s why AIP also warned against using the ADF to listen to broadcast stations, lest station X was being re-broadcast at location Y with the risk that pilot bloggs would mistake an ADF needle pointed at Y as being evidence of relative position to X. Probably not a problem in the Territory back in the day, though...

[gulliBell]

Whatever IFR approach you're doing you are supposed to monitor the aid in use however so, whether that be GPS, VOR, ILS, ADF or whatever. If it's not spelled out as such in AIP any more you still need to do it, it's part of good airmanship. So if ADF monitoring has been removed from AIP is rather inconsequential to the way pilots go about their business. I think we are all in agreement on that...

[swh]

FAA also required NDBs to be monitored during an approach, bottom of page 9

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/6740.6.pdf

But why would you do an NDB when there are ILS, GPS, and VOR approaches everywhere there.

[arkmark]

What’s an ADF?
Australian Defense force. It's a device that is wholly reliant on GPS do deliver it's product.
Like it's predecessor the Automatic Direction Finder, it too isn't much chop unless your interested in sporting results.

[LeiYingLo]

So if you didn’t monitor the ident whilst conducting an NDB approach how else would you have known about a failure?

Exactly. AIP 1.5 1.10.1 talks about when a missed approach is required; “during an instrument approach and below MSA the performance of the navaid becomes suspect or fails.”

[swh]

Exactly. AIP 1.5 1.10.1 talks about when a missed approach is required; “during an instrument approach and below MSA the performance of the navaid becomes suspect or fails.”

For the millennials they are unfamiliar with the three letters AIP in succession, therefore it must be a autocorrect error for APP. That section has been moved to Facebook APP as only their parents would ever read it or fly an NDB. RNP AR and CPDLC is on tinder APP.

[tfx]

ADFs used to go to 9 o'clock if the aid failed, you didn't need to listen to it.

I mention that because there may be still some out there who have forgotten how to do a jammed-loop letdown.

[witwiw]

there may be still some out there who have forgotten how to do a jammed-loop letdown.

Or a DME Homing and letdown.

[Pinky the pilot]

Or a DME Homing and letdown.

Hands up all those who have actually done one of the above for real.

I have.

[Capt Fathom]

there may be still some out there who have forgotten how to do a jammed-loop letdown
Do enlighten us! I've must have slept through that lesson?

[greybeard]

A DME homing in an F-28 on my final "local" (as we did not use simulators) on my Command check out, 1980.

Also on IFR renewals in a B-58/Seneca II later when needed to keep Australian ratings when overseas.

Builds Character Lad he said many a time

:ok:

[witwiw]

A number of them from GA through to RPT which is why l mentioned them - last one in Oz was into YPPD in a DC-9 although that was only the homing, we got visual before having to do the let-down.
Done some in the sim in more recent times for the fun of it.

[The Baron]

Bloody luxury I say. Anone remember the VAR aprocedure?

[maggot]

My dme letdowns were always in icing, uphill eng out both ways

[SeldomFixit]

Blue sector, yellow sector?

[compressor stall]

in the Territory back in the day

That comment makes me feel old.

[Capt Fathom]

Anone remember the VAR aprocedure?
Blue sector, yellow sector
What about the Aural/Null sectors!

[pithblot]

Stallie, me too :(


NDBs (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/369004-ndbs.html)


What's your favourite ADF approach? (https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/578620-what-s-your-favourite-adf-approach.html)

[apache]

The ADF needle also used to go to 9 o clock (or was it 3?)when you selected it to ANT.
It was great for increasing the range of the AM broadcast station.
Also a great gadget for finding the heart of the thunderstorm.

[On eyre]

And twin locator ?
Story was there was an unapproved one at YPLC using the NDB at the field and the 5LN broadcast station at the town some 6 miles away that nicely lined up with RWY 01 - just hearsay of course !

[gulliBell]

The ADF needle also used to go to 9 o clock (or was it 3?)when you selected it to ANT..

I think that depended on whether the antenna was mounted on top or on bottom of the aircraft.

[greybeard]

VAR at Kalgoorlie

Visual tracks from Perth and Forest, Aural from Norseman and Leonora or Laverton, it was 50 years ago.

Route Check stuff for DC-3 F/Os, I did 2 in the same year, not much flying on reserve those days.
:ok:

[SeldomFixit]

Twin locator at Avalon was a regular training sequence

[knight kevlar]

VAR memory jogger “ BuY an aircraft with a CS prop” eg Blue / Yellow Command South as I remember.

[601]

What’s an ADF?

An ancient navaid that allowed you to track to Brisbane from Auckland while listening to the cricket.