Cancel atitude Restrictions

[JammedStab]

You are cleared for fly a STAR and descend down to FL170 along with the words "cancel altitude restrictions. There are altitude restrictions both above and below FL170. Does the cancellation of altitude restrictions apply only to restriction above FL170 or to all altitude restrictions in the STAR?

[sonicbum]

Hi that will be above

https://www.icao.int/airnavigation/sidstar/Scenarios/New%20SID%20and%20STAR%20Phraseologies%20Scenarios%20v2.pdf

[JammedStab]

I'm not sure it answers the question here as the subsequent descent clearance was not descend via. After levelling at FL170, the subsequent descent clearances only gave the altitude.

[flyboyike]

Couple of questions:

1. When you were originally given the "cancel altitude restrictions" clearance, did the controller specify a fix on the STAR until which that clearance was valid. In other words, was it something like "cancel altitude restrictions until XXXXX"?

2. When issuing the subsequent descent clearance, did the controller state "descend and maintain FLXXX, COMPLY WITH RESTRICTIONS"?

[JammedStab]

Was cleared to fly a specific STAR. Descend to FL170, cancel altitude restrictions. The question is.....does this cancel only the ones above 170 or the ones below as well.

Just for clarification, this was not in the US where there is more specific terminoligy. Internationally, there does not appear to be a 'Descend and maintain' type of statement that clarifies that all altitude restrictions to that altitude are cancelled.

Thanks.

[flyboyike]

I suppose you could refer to regulatory guidance (if any is available) from the country in question (which, I guess, is a secret).

Personally, I'm not a very smart man, so if I'm not sure about a clearance, I just ask the controller. That way the answer is on tape.

[JammedStab]

Thanks,

Nothing wrong with clarification from ATC. I was just hoping someone would have the answer here and a quick re-direct.

[flyboyike]

It's hard to have the answer without knowing the country or what the actual clearance after FL170 was.

[JammedStab]

Actually, it applies to several countries. The example given was just one of several cases in several countries. What I am looking for is an ICAO clarification such as in the document provided earlier as it seems to be the new worldwide method for most countries except the US.

As for the subsequent clearance, it was a simple descend to 6000' but there was one or two published altitude restrictions in between.

I suspect that it is incorrect terminology being used.

Thanks

[flyboyike]

I'm sure there is some kind of guidance from the ICAO, but in my experience it's not always a given that the controllers are familiar with such guidance (or care about it). At the end of the day, all procedures (like all politics) are ultimately local. Which is why it's cheaper and easier to just ask the controller. If he decides to try to violate you, an obscure ICAO document won't be nearly as effective a defense as a taped conversation.

Don't you agree, Captain?