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Bergerie1
18th Jan 2018, 21:33
I think the Daily Telegraph may have the wrong numbers, see here:-
BA loses transatlantic time record to Norwegian thanks to ferocious jet stream (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/norwegian-breaks-transatlantic-speed-record/)

So far as I know this VC10 flight is still the fastest:-
Testing and early days (http://vc10.net/Memories/testing_earlydays.html#AtlanticDash)

Does anyone have any other information?

Liffy 1M
18th Jan 2018, 22:47
Surely it all depends in what's being compared with that. JFK-PIK is a bit shorter than JFK-LGW. If you were to include JFK-SNN, maybe there have been even shorter flight times achieved, but that would hardly be surprising either.

SpringHeeledJack
18th Jan 2018, 22:48
This must be a regular occurrence when extremely strong tailwinds are present. The Norwegian plane did 3,470miles in 5hrs 13m, the old 'record holder' did 3215miles in 5hrs 1m, so apples and pears imo. I flew on a UTA DC-10 from MIA-CDG in 5hrs 20m for 4588miles, which knocks the others for six. The pilot said that 'due to 200mph tailwinds our flight would be much shorter than normal'.....I'm sure that there were/are loads of others that have equaled my experience.

DaveReidUK
18th Jan 2018, 23:18
I think the Daily Telegraph may have the wrong numbers, see here:-
BA loses transatlantic time record to Norwegian thanks to ferocious jet stream (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/norwegian-breaks-transatlantic-speed-record/)

No, the DT doesn't have the wrong numbers, it has the wrong headline.

If they had said "BA loses transatlantic *speed* record to Norwegian thanks to ferocious jet stream", then they would have been correct, particularly given that JFK to Gatwick is 18 miles further than to Heathrow.

The VC-10 record is a bit of a red herring. At the time, it was the shortest duration subsonic transatlantic passenger flight, because it went to Prestwick (PIK) rather than London.

But even that (time) record was broken years ago, and is probably currently held by Air Canada, who on a good day do St Johns (YYT) to Heathrow in under 4 hours.

Tankertrashnav
19th Jan 2018, 00:09
It would be very helpful if posters realised that not all on here are au fait with the codes for airports. I would imagine most might understand CDG and LHR, but YYT?, PIK?, SNN?

Wouldn't have taken more than a few seconds to write the aiport name in full and saved those of us not in the know having to look them up

TTFN TTN ;)

India Four Two
19th Jan 2018, 00:47
BZ TTN

YYC SENDS. ;)

treadigraph
19th Jan 2018, 00:54
I have the same problem TTN - I know Air Canada have a daily A318 flight into Heathrow during the summer, think it comes from St Johns so imagine it's that one. IIRC :)

421dog
19th Jan 2018, 02:55
BC Red Wine.
BK
BY
EMERG 3

parabellum
19th Jan 2018, 05:19
Here you go then TTFN and others:


International airport codes IATA 3-letter code for airports - Nations Online Project (http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/IATA_Codes/airport_code_list.htm)

Flypro
19th Jan 2018, 08:27
NFI !!!

I agree with TTN. Using airport codes doesn't make you an aviator. For example, writing 'Dulles to Heathrow' takes no time at all and allows others who don't consider themselves gods of the sky to enjoy the thread. Just saying.

ExXB
19th Jan 2018, 08:31
I have the same problem TTN - I know Air Canada have a daily A318 flight into Heathrow during the summer, think it comes from St Johns so imagine it's that one. IIRC :)

A319 from St. Johnís (YYT). Believe service is now year round, but not always daily.

wiggy
19th Jan 2018, 08:50
Hate to be controversial first thing in the AM (local) but perhaps itís worth remembering the siteís history and what the first two Ps in itís name stand for....

If someone starts talking about New York in an airport context they may well think it is evident they are talking about JFK but to me and others they could just as easily be talking about LaGuardia, Newark, Teterboro, etc....similar applies to umpteen other places on the planet.

Maybe itís time to avoid confusion by only using the ICAO designators...that will really go down well.

As has been pointed out, there are plenty of resources out there for unearthing the ICAO or IATA designators.

SMT Member
19th Jan 2018, 09:30
That's pretty fast for a KJFK to EGKK flight.

(If IATA's causing consternation, suggest we make a move to ICAO).

PS
This is an aviation forum, and in aviation we love our TLAs. You can either catch up with the jargon or get off the bus.

Bergerie1
19th Jan 2018, 09:36
It's all apples and pears to me!

Flypro
19th Jan 2018, 10:05
I bet my watch is bigger than yours SMT

Fareastdriver
19th Jan 2018, 10:48
Wasn't it the IRA terrorist who called up British Airways to find out how long it took to fly from Belfast to London so he could set the bomb timer.

"Just a minute".

"Thank you very much."

Click, burrrrrr.

treadigraph
19th Jan 2018, 11:01
A319 from St. Johnís (YYT). Believe service is now year round, but not always daily.

Oh, 319, always looks quite a shortarse on the odd occasion I see it!

bnt
19th Jan 2018, 11:53
It would be very helpful if posters realised that not all on here are au fait with the codes for airports. I would imagine most might understand CDG and LHR, but YYT?, PIK?, SNN?
To look up and visualise routes, I find the Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/) website very handy. You can enter "YYZ - LHR" or "Toronto - Heathrow" and it will display the route.

From that site, the shortest commercial Transatlantic flight I can see would be St. John's to Shannon: 1,947 miles as the crow would fly if it had a couple of turbofans attached.

ExXB
19th Jan 2018, 12:52
Natal (NAT) - Freetown (FNA) is just 1820 miles. Likely some other Brazil-Africa city pairs even closer.

Edited to add: Sal to Cape Verde Islands is only 1767miles and was operated by the Cape Verde airline at one time

DaveReidUK
19th Jan 2018, 13:17
A319 from St. Johnís (YYT). Believe service is now year round, but not always daily.

Since the start of the winter season it's been 2 pw, but now with a B763 rather than the A319.

DaveReidUK
19th Jan 2018, 13:36
Having now established that we all understand the difference between shortest time, shortest distance and highest average speed, and as nobody has done the sums yet, here's what my trusty slide rule came up with:

DY JFK-LGW (GC distance 3015 nm) 5:13 = 578.0 kts average speed (new record)

BA JFK-LHR (GC distance 2999 nm) 5:16 = 569.4 kts average speed (previous 2015 record)

BA JFK-PIK (GC distance 2794 nm) 5:01 = 556.9 kts average speed (1979 VC-10 record)

DY = Norwegian
BA = British Airways
GC = Great Circle (not an airline :O)

Bergerie1
19th Jan 2018, 15:04
Thanks Dave - good to have the facts spelt out so neatly!

Mike6567
19th Jan 2018, 16:13
I seem to remember Paris (Charles de Gaulle) to London Heathrow was bit of a challenge on the Tristar

bcgallacher
19th Jan 2018, 17:03
Somewhere in my collection I have a couple of photographs of a Carousel INU in a 747 between Manila and Narita showing a groudspeed of 699 kts and wind on the tail of 200+. We were above 30,000 ft,coming back next morning we were at 20,000 to try and get below the headwind - without much success as there was still a considerable wind on the nose at that level. What impressed me was that there was no turbulence.

DaveReidUK
19th Jan 2018, 17:10
I seem to remember Paris (Charles de Gaulle) to London Heathrow was bit of a challenge on the Tristar

Probably trying, and failing, to beat the record of 27 minutes from Paris (Le Bourget then, but same distance) to Heathrow that a BEA Trident set in 1968.

SpringHeeledJack
19th Jan 2018, 20:07
I did a LHR-DUS sector on a Lufthansa 737 in 37mins wheels up to down, no idea what the tailwind component was. That's 313miles to the 212miles of the CDG-LHR, so yet again my flight knocks the record for six.....Either I'm the Forrest Gump of SLF, or these records are not all they seem ???

DaveReidUK
19th Jan 2018, 20:59
I did a LHR-DUS sector on a Lufthansa 737 in 37mins wheels up to down, no idea what the tailwind component was. That's 313miles to the 212miles of the CDG-LHR, so yet again my flight knocks the record for six.....Either I'm the Forrest Gump of SLF, or these records are not all they seem ???

Well yes, every city pair that has been flown since the dawn of air transport will have had a flight, at one time or another, that was quicker than all the others, so those will all be records of some sort.

This could turn into a very long thread ... :O

Pontius Navigator
19th Jan 2018, 21:11
Onpure speed, I remember a Vulcan from Goose to Waddo. They realised the had the advantage of a very strong jet stream so did a high mach run all the way across. IIRC their time was around 3-15, so fast that the customs officer missed their arrival :)

Tankertrashnav
20th Jan 2018, 00:07
To look up and visualise routes, I find the Great Circle Mapper website very handy.

Actually bnt - I used that site the other day for an entirely different purpose, ie to confirm that Pyongyang - London is approx 1000 km closer than Pyongyang - Los Angeles. This might surprise your average Joe whose mental picture of the world is heavily influenced by Mr Mercator, and thinks we will always be well out of range of Rocket Man's ICBMs.

And they aren't subsonic !

Incidentally I'm glad I'm not the only one on here that doesn't know his three letter codes - don't feel quite so stupid now

llondel
20th Jan 2018, 03:41
I remember some years ago on a Virgin Atlantic flight the flight deck informing the cabin that we'd joined that select group of people who've travelled at greater than 800mph over the ground. Presumably most of the other eastbound traffic across the Atlantic that night also became part of that group.

I also remember doing CBG->AMS with the assistance of a stonking great tailwind. We took off late, but arrived exactly on time, so I assume someone had though about it. The pilot noted that our ground speed was somewhat impressive for a turboprop. Even better, the weather system moved during the day and we had a 50mph tailing going home that evening, too.

finncapt
20th Jan 2018, 06:34
Back in the 70s, I was the nav. on a VC10 en route to an east coast US destination.

Over northeastern Canada, the groundspeed, at .84 (if a standard .86) indicated, was 290kts at fl 370.

We climbed to fl390 (the VC10 could!!) and the groundspeed increased to 296kts.

The next day, coming back we had over 700kts.

crewmeal
20th Jan 2018, 07:15
I once flew YYZ-PIK in 4 hours 50 mins on a BOAC classic 747, but it took nearly twice that to get back. All due to the winds!

Bergerie1
20th Jan 2018, 13:35
At the risk of some thread drift, I remember coming across an unusually strong wind during my nav training on a Britannia back in the early 1960s.

I was navigating under supervision at the time, on a flight from Montreal Dorval to Prestwick. We were trundling along at somewhere around 20,000ft at a little under 300kts TAS, when I measured a headwind of 180kts. Naturally, I thought I had made an almighty cockup with either my astro or my airplotting, as did my navigation instructor, but when he ran through the calculations he came to the same conclusion.

We both realised that, if that wind continued for much longer, we would not reach destination and would have to divert en-route, but where to? Fortunately, after half an hour or so, it disappeared. I still thought I had made a cockup until we went to check with the met officer in Prestwick. He confirmed that several other navigators had experienced the same strong easterly wind.

What other extraordinary winds have other PPRuNers experienced I wonder?

KelvinD
20th Jan 2018, 14:20
And Westjet did the St Johns to Gatwick trip in a 737. (Don't know if they still operate it)

Pontius Navigator
20th Jan 2018, 17:44
Bergerie, a jet on the equator east of Kenya at 510.