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BehindBlueEyes
18th Jan 2018, 13:49
Not sure whether this should be in the Darwin Awards but here goes:

The school where a colleague’s son attends has just had an OFSTED inspection. As is usual, the inspectors like to have a chat with selected pupils to get a feel for the environment; what the children like about the place, whether they feel valued, how much they enjoy their learning etc etc.

This particular conversation was initiated by the statement, “Bert, a boy in your class, comes in one morning and wants to be known as Bertha. He also tells you that he will be using the girls toilets from now on. What do you feel about this?”

Is it me, or is this really relevant and the purpose of government appointed inspectors? Surely, it’s not actually any of their business? Different families, rightly or wrongly and for various reasons, may have opposing views. The whole point of inspecting schools is to ensure that education and welfare standards are good, not to be moral police. Do they want the PC answer or the individuals personal belief?

I personally, don’t give a damn what toilet Bert/Bertha chooses to use but I do feel quite irate that questions like this are being asked, especially when we’re hearing about how under pressure OFSTED are and that on average, they are in any school for 2 1/2 days, during which they presumably would better off looking at books and observing lessons?

Saintsman
18th Jan 2018, 13:57
It’s a loaded question.

Do you answer what you really think or do you give the answer that keeps you in a job?

Besides whatever sex they want to be does not change the way they need to be educated.

Mind you, I would have concerns if he really wanted to be known as Bertha!

Sallyann1234
18th Jan 2018, 14:06
This particular conversation was initiated by the statement, “Bert, a boy in your class, comes in one morning and wants to be known as Bertha. He also tells you that he will be using the girls toilets from now on. What do you feel about this?”

Unfortunately that is already out of date.
We must now allow "self identification of gender" (sex is now a banned word in this context), and the appropriate pronouns must be used to avoid causing distress.

So the correct question would now be,
"a person in your class formerly identifying as male, comes in one morning and wants to be known as Bertha. She also tells you that she is now identifying as female and will be using the girls toilets from now on. What do you feel about this?”
If the answer is anything other than entirely approving, the boy is guilty of transphobia and the school is clearly responsible for this.

Note that it is a boy being asked the question. The girls are not allowed an opinion as to whether boys are permitted in their toilets or changing rooms.

Nemrytter
18th Jan 2018, 14:15
It’s a loaded question.In the same way that, in a more extreme form, "do you like to molest children" is a loaded question. It's possibly irrelevant in terms of the education children receive but somewhat more relevant in terms of their physical and mental wellbeing.

DaveReidUK
18th Jan 2018, 14:44
As is usual, the inspectors like to have a chat with selected pupils to get a feel for the environment; what the children like about the place, whether they feel valued, how much they enjoy their learning etc etc.

And the "etc, etc" includes a duty on the part of Ofsted to assess the "spiritual, moral, social and cultural development" of the pupils, so in that context it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

There is no "right" or "wrong" answer, but I suspect a response of "Dunno, mate" (depending on what year group is being asked) might have prompted Ofsted to question whether the developmental targets are being met.

Kelly Hopper
18th Jan 2018, 14:54
So where were all the Berthas when I was at school?
Where are all the Berthas in france, Italy, Spain, Sweden?
The UK was a world leader. Today it is a laughing stock!
So so so glad I got out when I did. I can't ever live there again. It is utterly [email protected]@ked up and they can't even see it!

G-CPTN
18th Jan 2018, 14:58
Wasn't there an outcry a decade or so ago concerning 'instruction' about homosexuality?

ISTR it was banned then the ban was withdrawn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28).

The amendment was enacted on 24 May 1988, and stated that a local authority "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".

It was repealed on 21 June 2000 in Scotland by the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000, one of the first pieces of legislation enacted by the new Scottish Parliament, and on 18 November 2003 in the rest of the United Kingdom by section 122 of the Local Government Act 2003.

meadowrun
18th Jan 2018, 15:41
Children wanting to or changing sex without sound medical reasons are abused children, and if encouraged by their parents (or anyone non-medical) in this, those people should be charged with child abuse and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are not fit to raise children. The children will be safer without them.
Schools can get back to teaching students things they need to know in life.

G0ULI
18th Jan 2018, 15:46
Simple, you relocate the gender bender to another school where there is no baggage carried forward from their previous gender identity.

VP959
18th Jan 2018, 16:16
Surely the point here is one of the proportionality of the action taken, isn't it?

According to Wikipedia (and accepting that the source data is currently disputed):

It is estimated that about 0.005% to 0.014% of people assigned male at birth and 0.002% to 0.003% of people assigned female at birth would be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, based on 2013 diagnostic criteria, though this is considered a modest underestimate.

Other sources suggest the rate may be around 0.02% of the population, which may be a closer estimate.

Either way, this is an extremely small percentage of children, and many schools will never see a child with gender dysphoria at all. Surely the objective here has to be to make the teachers and staff aware, make sure they understand how to handle a case of gender dysphoria if they encounter one and leave it at that. Other conditions, such as mental health issues, many forms of disability etc, are far more prevalent than gender dysphoria, so why are OFSTED placing so much focus on such a minority condition?

I fully accept that teachers and staff need to know how to manage children with the condition, and explain to other children what's happening, but surely this is one of situations where schools only need to react when they have to deal with a case?

There's nothing new here, that I can see. Although I don't remember the details, I do remember a small boy in our class at primary school (I would have been about 5 or 6 years old at the time) who came back one term as a girl, with a new name. I have no idea what the details were, but do remember that as children we just all accepted it without question. IIRC, a teacher told us that this new girl was joining our class and some of us may remember her from when she used to be a boy, and I can't remember any of us thinking it was at all out of the ordinary at the time. If I was to hazard a guess, I would say that she probably did not have gender dysphoria, but was probably one of the many babies that, at that time, were assigned the wrong gender at birth. It used to happen quite frequently, when gender was just determined by a "quick look", but nowadays we know that the visual appearance of external genitalia is not a reliable indicator of gender at birth at all, so every newborn now has a proper gender identity blood test, I believe.

Now, if we all accepted a child that changed gender without hassle, back in the 1950's, why is it such an issue now?

BehindBlueEyes
18th Jan 2018, 16:28
Children wanting to or changing sex without sound medical reasons are abused children, and if encouraged by their parents (or anyone non-medical) in this, those people should be charged with child abuse and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are not fit to raise children. The children will be safer without them.
Schools can get back to teaching students things they need to know in life.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Why is life being made so overcomplicated?

Isn’t that the point of the legal definition of “minor” or being under the age of legal majority. The law, surely, is in place to protect the young because society acknowledges/considers that they do not have the experience or understanding of consequence to make life changing decisions. Children are not allowed to vote for a transient government but are being encouraged, by some, to make whole life changing decisions about gender reassignments under the age of 10. Ok, they can’t actually have the full operation but the mental imprinting is being done by do gooders.


Well said VP959 too. I’ve worked in a primary school for 18 years. There has been, and always will be , the occasional boy who prefers girl orientated things and the the occasional girl who preferred to play rough with the boys. Almost without exception, their cohort just accepted them for what they were and I never had to deal with any fall out because of it. One year, there wasn’t enough girls to go around for female roles in the school play. One lad stuck his hand up and said he was ok with wearing a frilly dress (as required by the part) I awaited the sniggering, fully prepared to squash it, and to congratulate him on his magnanimity but not one of the class batted an eyelid, they just got on with it. Many years later,it was no surprise to find out that he was gay and enjoyed being a part time drag queen.

SARF
18th Jan 2018, 16:29
When I was at primary school. We had an assembly where it was explained to us that my mate jimmy.xxxxx. Was now to be known as jimmy.yyyyyy. As his mum had married another man. You could have heard a pin drop !

meadowrun
18th Jan 2018, 16:31
why is it such an issue now?


Because the justified medical cases are so few.


There seems to be a new, growing phenomena of very serious life style choices by minors aided and abetted by adults, that I would classify as "a whim" or " a warped fashion choice". Minors do not have the wherewithal to make these kinds of decisions.
There are reasons they are not permitted to drink, smoke, vote, sign contracts, join armed forces, work, drive, pilot, operate heavy machinery.......

NutLoose
18th Jan 2018, 16:55
We had an openly gay lad in our year who used to really hype it up like Julian Clary [15 ish] , you know, the really effeminate type and he was caught in a police raid with a lot of adults in the local public toilets, doing ermmmm whatever they do, he was having to take off school time for the court case, it didn't bother him one bit and neither did it bother any of us either, he was a nice lad to chat too. I do wonder the response they would get from him...

charliegolf
18th Jan 2018, 17:23
I did 30 years in education (I eventually passed!), and an awful lot of pupils benefitted from my kindly and expert ministrations. I am not aware of a single one who was transgender. Not one case was raised with me in school; and not a single, "Hey, did you hear about Bert? He's now Bertha!", comment after they left. Just lucky?

CG

Meadowrun: spot on.

charliegolf
18th Jan 2018, 17:27
... life style choices by minors aided and abetted by adults,

I always viewed this as the most commonly perpertrated form of child abuse.

CG

Trossie
18th Jan 2018, 17:39
“Bert, a boy in your class, comes in one morning and wants to be known as Bertha. He also tells you that he will be using the girls toilets from now on. What do you feel about this?”Bloody hell! Why didn't I think of an excuse like that to get into the girls' toilets when I was a teenager!!

Hussar 54
18th Jan 2018, 19:37
Can't help but see double standards in play so frequently these days....

If Jimmy suddenly decides he wants to be Jenny, then we are all obliged to respect his ' gender choice ' and treat him as female from now on - clothes, toilet, etc....

However, if the same Jimmy were then to apply to join an all female boarding school, are the school obliged to accept him ?

Answers on a postcard, please...

tdracer
18th Jan 2018, 21:36
I always viewed this as the most commonly perpertrated form of child abuse.

CG
I tend to agree - although far from on expert on the matter I find it hard to believe anyone who's pre-puberty can really know if they are straight, gay, trans, etc. - and even post puberty I'd expect it to take a few years for one who is 'sexually confused' for things to completely sort themselves.

Donkey497
18th Jan 2018, 22:23
Heard of this one from a friend in Englandshire who's son has shown some promise of being properly wired up the wrong way.
She told me that he'd been picked out by one of the visiting team for the "friendly informal chat" much against the subtle nudging of his teacher to pick someone else. Once the victims were assembled, he was apparently asked exactly pretty much verbatim the same question at the tail end of the chat which had apparently gone quite well from the school's point of view.

Cut to the scene of the teacher observing the randomly selected individuals (& report back for later praise or vengeance...) going pale as the bold boy is picked out & asked the question. The response was a dismissive "I don't understand - We don't have a Bert in our class, so you must be thinking of another school - I can't see that happening here" shortly followed by chaperoning teacher ushering the group out before the inspector could react.

He did kind of spoil it when he got back to the classroom & shouted full tongue across to a kid sitting quietly in the far corner of the silent and studious classroom "Hey Bert, the Inspector says you've turned gay - how come you told her & didn't say a thing to us?". Ten minutes before order was restored.

He's nine just now, horrifies his mother and to a lesser extent his father on a regular basis. I have great hope that he will one day be a proper square peg in a round hole, as the world needs more us. Puts a smile on my face every time I hear what he's been up to.

RedhillPhil
18th Jan 2018, 23:47
"Is this really relevant in education"?
No, not at all but it gives and keeps the Guardianistas in a job.:E

Mechta
19th Jan 2018, 00:25
They just need toilet cubicles accessible by anyone, and, as our school had, an open roofed trough urinal in the playground. Needless to say, the challenge was to pee over the top of the wall onto the unfortunates on the other side.

G-CPTN
19th Jan 2018, 00:46
an open roofed trough urinal in the playground. Needless to say, the challenge was to pee over the top of the wall onto the unfortunates on the other side.

That was what happened at our junior school.

parabellum
19th Jan 2018, 05:12
I tend to agree - although far from on expert on the matter I find it hard to believe anyone who's pre-puberty can really know if they are straight, gay, trans, etc. - and even post puberty I'd expect it to take a few years for one who is 'sexually confused' for things to completely sort themselves.


Exactly! and this is why I get so angry when I hear of schools here in Australia and I believe in the UK too, pushing this gender thing at children who have yet to reach puberty never mind the age of consent. Very obvious when studying the crowds of youngsters from various 'universities' and polytechnics who turn out on the streets in great numbers for any radical cause, that many of them are just having a laugh and playing that old child hood pantomime game of dressing up, making up and acting up as the opposite sex.

Krystal n chips
19th Jan 2018, 06:21
Exactly! and this is why I get so angry when I hear of schools here in Australia and I believe in the UK too, pushing this gender thing at children who have yet to reach puberty never mind the age of consent. Very obvious when studying the crowds of youngsters from various 'universities' and polytechnics who turn out on the streets in great numbers for any radical cause, that many of them are just having a laugh and playing that old child hood pantomime game of dressing up, making up and acting up as the opposite sex.

Well that rules out a career as a social scientist then...

First, and I'm sure you wholeheartedly disapprove of anybody who dares to not conform to your perceived status quo....stratified society, everybody knowing their place etc, students and indeed older age groups ( includes me you will be delighted to learn ) have been taking part in demonstrations in support of our principles and because we have a right to do so for many years.

Secondly....cross dressing...the practice has been around for centuries for both genders and whilst there are pantomime dames and drag artists, there are also millions who are neither, yet have an instinct to do so.

Gender and genes are complex issues and, whilst it's true up to a point to say childhood should, as a far as possible be free from the complexities that arise later in life, for some, the earlier the understanding and support they can receive the better.

Nemrytter
19th Jan 2018, 08:21
As usual, the people of jet blast can't understand the modern world.

Trossie
19th Jan 2018, 10:47
As usual, the people of jet blast can't understand the modern world.
I can understand the modern world! They are much, much cleverer that we were as teenagers in finding excuses to get into the girls' toilets!!

Sallyann1234
19th Jan 2018, 11:01
Well here is the modern world...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/30/transgender-weightlifter-sets-new-zealand-records-/

treadigraph
19th Jan 2018, 11:03
Was there not a transgender doctor in the 1970s who competed in women's tennis?

Edit: Renee Richards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards)

charliegolf
19th Jan 2018, 11:10
As usual, the people of jet blast can't understand the modern world.

What I fail to understand, is 'fad-ism'. I'm so ashamed.

CG

Sallyann1234
19th Jan 2018, 11:40
And of course you don't have to be a woman to be in a women's footbal team:

Eight of Iran's women's football team 'are men' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11903290/Eight-of-Irans-womens-football-team-are-men.html)

bnt
19th Jan 2018, 11:50
When in comes to questions about the girls' toilets, you would think that the opinions that matter would be those of the other girls using the same toilets. Why would a male teacher's opinion be relevant at all?

charliegolf
19th Jan 2018, 12:01
When in comes to questions about the girls' toilets, you would think that the opinions that matter would be those of the other girls using the same toilets. Why would a male teacher's opinion be relevant at all?

And if the 5 year old girls, in their innocence, are ok with the 11 year old boys using their toilet- that's ok with you?

CG

VP959
19th Jan 2018, 12:04
When in comes to questions about the girls' toilets, you would think that the opinions that matter would be those of the other girls using the same toilets. Why would a male teacher's opinion be relevant at all?

In the first case where we were looking to employ a transitioning M to F transgender lady in the late 1990's, the major complaint was over the use of the ladies toilet and was made by one lady with very devout religious views. She put us (management) in a difficult position, because at that time we had an equal opportunities policy, but we were not required to allow genetically male individuals to use specifically female facilities (things have changed since, I think).

We were saved having to find a solution by the transgender lady freely offering to use the unisex disabled toilets. I didn't feel comfortable with this, as my own view was that this was still discrimination, but at that time it was the only way around the problem.

My understanding now is that the rights of transgender individuals are significantly stronger, and the law has been clarified. Certainly when a colleague transitioned from male to female around 10 or 12 years ago now there was no problem at all over the use of female facilities. In fact a group of the ladies got together to help her sort out her new wardrobe, use make up etc, even to the extent of organising a shopping trip for her. Times had clearly changed pretty quickly in the space of less than 10 years with regard to acceptance of gender dysphoria (and I know that some on here just will never believe such a condition exists, but I am 100% convinced it does, having known the colleague mentioned for many, many years).

Blacksheep
19th Jan 2018, 13:42
Thought control methods entered our schools a long time ago. This is just the latest manifestation: sadly, it shows how far the process has gone.

"We don't want no education, we don't want no thought control... "

All in all they're just more bricks in the wall.

charliegolf
19th Jan 2018, 13:58
Back to the top, and OFSTED (or Estyn in Wales). We are constantly bombarded with the news that standards are falling, yet Estyn costs the public purse around £75milion per 6 year cycle. OFSTED will be much more. So what are they achieving? Weighing the pig don't make it any fatter. Nobody will face up to the fact that standards are the direct result of government policies in education, of every hue.

We have an early years thing called the Foundation Stage (Phase in Wales) meant to do what infant teaching did in old money, but even better through experiential learning. It doesn't work. It appears to work in beacon schools and project schools- they get loads more dosh.
Previous to this, children were taught to read as the most important precurser of all other learning. Then reading schemes were deemed the Devil's spawn, and real books emerged. In Wales, about 4 academics who have never taught a day in an infant school run the policies. They are getting fat on the profits and the morons in the Cardiff Play Group keep funding them- from the education budget!

Where's my pills?

CG

meadowrun
19th Jan 2018, 14:10
There's this hill street in St. Dogmaels (actually, there are a few but this one is a doozy) that is just perfect for working off that kind of stress.
Climb it twice back to the house and all you will want to do is die for awhile.

charliegolf
19th Jan 2018, 14:15
There's this hill street in St. Dogmaels (actually, there are a few but this one is a doozy) that is just perfect for working off that kind of stress.
Climb it twice back to the house and all you will want to do is die for awhile.

:ok::ok::ok:

Hussar 54
19th Jan 2018, 14:36
Well you see, Doc, it's like this.

I'm thinking of 'transitioning' to be a woman, but before I go ahead and have the undercarriage permanently removed, I just need to find out what it would be like to actually live amongst women. So I'll need a quick note from yourself, please, to say that we've discussed my ' transitioning ' just in case anyone asks. Honestly !

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/row-erupts-after-hampstead-heath-womens-pool-allows-transgender-bathers-a3729056.html

Whatever is the current idealogy for ' Jimmy-who-wants-to-be-Jenny-one-day ' and the world that NEMRYTTER lives in, there is still a very fundamental psychological difference betwen men and women - I mean, can't imagine too many men complaining if ' Jenny-who-wants-to-be-Jimmy-one-day ' was allowed to use the mens' changing rooms although maybe Jenny would no doubt complain about the men voyeuring her, not the other way round.

BehindBlueEyes
19th Jan 2018, 15:26
If society keeps widening and widening the bar to embrace absolutely every permutation of sexual predilection, aren’t we eventually going to have to accept even the most extreme ‘customers’ such as rapists and paedophiles? After all, they could argue that they are only entitled to their rights to have what they want too - even if they’re a tiny, tiny minority?

Trossie
19th Jan 2018, 15:29
I cannot believe that teenage boys have thought up this wheeze to get into the girls' toilets and everyone takes them seriously and writes reams and reams of justifications, counter arguments, "can't understand the modern world" and so on and on!

Either teenage boys now are a lot cleverer than we were then or the 'grown ups' now are far, far more gullible!

radeng
19th Jan 2018, 15:57
What about the communal showers after PE? The girls might object, although some girls these days would doubtless take advantage of Bertha! The parents of the girls might well object, too.

Toilet cubicles are one thing - nobody worries about toilets on aircraft or trains not being unisex, but communal showers are a bit different. It could be quite traumatic for some girls at the onset of puberty.....

radar101
19th Jan 2018, 20:55
What about the communal showers after PE? The girls might object, although some girls these days would doubtless take advantage of Bertha! The parents of the girls might well object, too.

Toilet cubicles are one thing - nobody worries about toilets on aircraft or trains not being unisex, but communal showers are a bit different. It could be quite traumatic for some girls at the onset of puberty.....



Radeng, You and I are from the communal shower generation (and communal baths after rugby games). It don't happen now.

funfly
19th Jan 2018, 22:56
Thread drift:
Have you noticed how many more men nowadays use the cubicle for a pee in the 'gents' rather than use the urinals? - personally don't understand it, spoken as a man who has had to go at the edge of the street in deepest Africa - and seen women doing the same.
Also take the point that women are happy to use the same toilets in aircraft where these same (one assumes) ladies object to sharing in public toilets.

ChrisVJ
20th Jan 2018, 08:04
B.C. education minister, Chilliwack school board, call on Barry Neufeld to resign | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-education-minister-chilliwack-school-board-call-on-barry-neufeld-to-resign)

Last year Mr Neufeld commented on the new curriculum that concerns LGBQT etc etc. There was nothing at all in his comments that threatened anyone, suggested they should be excluded or sanctioned, only that he was concerned about the curriculum.

Irony, that the very people who should be shouting the loudest in support of free speech are those most vociferously denying him his.

From where I sit (and I am a trustee) I can tell you it has a very, very chilling effect on free speech.

Ogre
20th Jan 2018, 08:59
Thought control methods entered our schools a long time ago. This is just the latest manifestation: sadly, it shows how far the process has gone.

"We don't want no education, we don't want no thought control... "

All in all they're just more bricks in the wall.

Blacksheep, why don't they have a "like" button on this forum? You would get my vote.

From what I can see all over the "western english speaking world" there is this drive to teach young children to be things that they don't understand, but there will no doubt be those who follow because mummy or daddy or teacher says they can. I don't want to think what the world will look like in 20 years...

fujii
20th Jan 2018, 09:19
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IzNGkwGYE4E

Pontius Navigator
20th Jan 2018, 09:23
It is not just the gender range. In our village in rural Lincolnshire village our Chinese Restaurant just closed as they retired after 40 years, our Indian restaurant moved to the former Chinese after 25 years in other premises, oh and tgere is a woman of Indian origin in the Coop. If there are any other ethnic they are near invisible.

In even deeper rural Lincolnshire a primary school was marked down for lack of cultural diversity. To improve they had to twin with a school in central England. Shades of bussing perhaps.

VP959
20th Jan 2018, 10:00
It is not just the gender range. In our village in rural Lincolnshire village our Chinese Restaurant just closed as they retired after 40 years, our Indian restaurant moved to the former Chinese after 25 years in other premises, oh and tgere is a woman of Indian origin in the Coop. If there are any other ethnic they are near invisible.

In even deeper rural Lincolnshire a primary school was marked down for lack of cultural diversity. To improve they had to twin with a school in central England. Shades of bussing perhaps.


The same happens here. When I first applied to become a magistrate I went through the normal process of selection, case studies, observation of court operation and interviews. I was then shown the statistics of the present age/ethnic/gender balance of all the local JPs, and told that I may have to wait some time because the MoJ was trying to ensure a representative age/ethnic/gender balance of JPs across the country.

It was then that I made my major mistake. I asked the board interviewing me what the age/ethnic/gender balance was of the local population where we would be sitting was. They all looked at each other then one said, "well, it's a pretty close match to the balance amongst local JPs, except for age". Here we only have a very small population of non-white British people - not because we're all racists and drive other ethnicities away, it's just that very few from other ethnicities have chosen to live and work here, I don't have a clue as to why, but the same seems to be the case in many rural areas.

I then asked why the MoJ didn't try to ensure that local benches were made up with a representative mix for their local area. It was at that point where they looked at each other, turned to me and said "We have to follow the MoJ guidance, and I'm afraid as a middle aged white male, although you may well be representative of people in this area, we are required to apply a preference to non-white, non-male, candidates".

In other words, we'll put you on the list, but you will stay at the bottom and we will give priority to non-white younger women.

Now the interesting thing here is that as a part of my training and selection I had had to spend a fair bit of time in court, observing cases. Not once did I see a non-white defendant in our local court, and the vast majority of defendants were white males, very few were female. In other words, defendants not only matched the primarily white local population, but there was also a clear bias with men being more likely to find themselves in court than women. In fact it was a pretty good match to the make up of the benches I also observed working, with the exception that there were often more women than men sitting.

Given that another important part of JP training involves equality and diversity education, with an emphasis on not having even a subconscious bias in respect of age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender etc, I did wonder quite what the MoJ were trying to achieve. On the one hand they were, quite rightly, making great efforts to remove any bias on those grounds, but on the other hand they were preferentially selecting candidates on the basis of age, ethnicity or gender...................

KelvinD
20th Jan 2018, 14:42
Trossie: Re excuses to get into the girl's changing rooms, I was a lot luckier than you. While in my 2nd year at an all boys grammar school, my mate and I decided it would be a clever idea to climb onto the bike shed roof to chat to some girls at the girls school next door, the bike shed being a part of the border between the two. At some point, my mate said something along the lines of "if you fancy that girl so much, why don't you go and join her?" and gave me a shove. Unfortunately, my feet caught in the bike shed's gutter and I landed up in the girls' playground head first and unable to move. Some girls alerted the gym teacher who came out to see to me and took me into an area at the entrance to the girls' changing room where there was a sink and cold tap. She filled up the sink with cold water to rest my wrists in. A lot of girls were coming back to the changing room after netball practice. Nobody had told them there was a boy in the changing room and they were starting to strip off as they entered, being out of sight of the boys school next door. I couldn't figure out what bothered me the most, the pain from my 2 broken wrists and pair of sprained ankles or the elevated heart rate caused by the amazing scenes going on around me!
I was quite sad when the ambulance arrived to take me away!

goudie
20th Jan 2018, 16:13
Pity your wrists were ineffective...!

B737C525
20th Jan 2018, 21:30
And we were frightened of George Orwell’s limited and restricted view of a possible future...

parabellum
21st Jan 2018, 11:25
Gender and genes are complex issues and, whilst it's true up to a point to say childhood should, as a far as possible be free from the complexities that arise later in life,
A glimmer of hope then, from K&C, of all people!