Enough...done

[The Outlaw]

Feb roster, 93 hours in 28 days, 8 days off, this on top of the 95-100 rosters for the past many months. Not one thing from the bidding system, no leave as per the bid...nothing.

There are at least 30 more reasons but it'll never change here...work till you die or get sick then be replaced.

That does it, resignation submitted. Time to live again.

I'll guess I'm the only one not feeling the love around here anymore!!

[Flyboy_SG]

That's a lot !!! 777 First officers are flying around 70 it seems.

[SOPS]

are you serious Outlaw..have you done it?

[The Outlaw]

are you serious Outlaw..have you done it?

Yep. They are getting more than the 90 days notice but thats just to finish up the school year for the kids. June 27 will be the last day. Funny thing, I too was thinking of driving a train or metro but I think I'll take a few months off and enjoy the summer in the ol' country!

[The Outlaw]

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll find your quality of life much improved once you get out of that toxic country.

I feel like a ton has already been lifted off me. Its taken time to get this into my head of cement but..."this is only a job" (not even a good one anymore), I can't say "this is only a life". The two statements says it all.

[SOPS]

Sent you a PM

[Mach.888]

Congratulates to you. 👍
I’m sure you are doing the right thing.
As someone posted not long ago,
“if things where going to improve around here, they would have done so long ago”

[Nick 1]

“ Sit under the sun abdicate and be your own king “

[Mach_Krit]

a few years back people would congratulate you for joining emirates. These days they pity you, and congratulate when you resign. What a bizarre place this has become.

[Wingman82]

Me too...my last roster will be march. I lost the faith long time ago, no improvement. And you can feel and hear it everyday...

[Old King Coal]

The Outlaw: Well done you!

For what it's worth, I too had an epiphany wherein I simply couldn't take it anymore (i.e. the airline and / or Dubai). In a career I loved and had worked hard for, I found myself hating going to work (in the sandpit)... and therein one day I handed in my resignation.

I'm pleased to report that I've now got back my aeronautical mojo and am having a blast; though it's admittedly been something of a rollercoaster ride... but what a ride, and I'm loving every minute of it.

Whilst I might occasionally miss the DXB money, I certainly do NOT miss the sandpit (and, that said, the money I get now ain't all that far off - in real terms - what I got in DXB... but the fun factor I'm having now is, well, go figure) !

Once you finally leave and get to kick that UAE sand from off the bottom of your shoes, you'll look back and probably wonder why on earth you ever stayed there so long and to what end ?!

[Captain Sham]

Outlaw,
Great to hear you’re escaping. I made my exit last summer. If you do leave at the end of the school year EK will deduct school fees from your final settlement. School fees are calculated on a 365 day basis from the start of the previous year. Leaving at the beginning of the summer can get expensive if you have more than 1 child in school. I sent the family home at the beginning of the summer and worked until September in order not to leave any $ behind. Best of luck.
CS

[GoreTex]

Congrats Outlaw,
your biggest regret will be that you didn't leave earlier, welcome to the real world again, life will be good.

[RK Blue sky]

I can’t wait to add my name to the list Outlaw created.
I seriously doubt that this was ever “The Best Job in the World” but today it is pretty close to the bottom of the long haul operators. There are numerous other airlines that pay more and work you less to live in a descent country.
Who is going to stick around to shut off the lights?

[givemewings]

Welcome to the club Outlaw.

You will spend the rest of your working days floating along, knowing it's coming to an end. Every time you remember that you have pulled the pin, a smile will come to your face and you will immediately get a nice endorphin rush that soon you won't have to put up with any more of their sh!t.... however please be prepared that they will try to give you the death of a thousand paper cuts on your way out by way of the frustrating errands they so love to send one on.

They shafted me right up until the aircraft door closed, I actually cried when the wheels went up. Not because I was going to miss my friends, but because I was finally FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE

And yes it was very bizarre to be congratulated on my last flight for the fact that I was leaving! It's the standard reaction these days "I'm jealous"

best of luck for what comes next!

[The Outlaw]

All,

Thanks for the kind words, encouragement and insight. I actually wasn't aware that some of the names on here had already resigned! The one constant I have observed is that EVERYONE seems to say the same..."Why did I stay as long as I did". I suppose its a testimony to becoming a prisoner of a paycheck. I'm actually grateful to posters such as SOPS as well as others who post here, it makes one aware of how life can be on the outside - thanks!

I already feel that a big weight has been lifted. As for the death by 1000 paper cuts, well they do all that now and for useless reasons. At least these frustrating errands will now have a purpose!

One of my motivators was to get into another job before my age would become prohibitive. Again, there are about 29 more reasons but its all a personal choice. I hope everyone who aspires to move on to other things does so before its too late on a multitude of fronts.

Truth be known it feels nice to have hope and excitement back in my life, who knows what the next adventure will be!

[sealear]

That's a lot !!! 777 First officers are flying around 70 it seems.

Huh? More like 90!

Well done Outlaw, best of luck for whatever comes next. I am still stuck here for a while waiting for the bucket to fill, but it won't be too much longer......

[Fuzuma]

[QUOTE=sealear;10022042]Huh? More like 90!

Nope he’s right on......did the logbook for 2017 and averaged 72 hours.....taking into account my 42 days of leave

[Oldaircrew]

Feel like I’m working too hard. 126 in Jan.

[felixthecat]

126 ?? Thats crazy, 100 in 28 then another 26 in 3 ??

[Oldaircrew]

I kid you not. Remember that augmenting time not at the controls does not count towards the FTL. So augmenting back from Sydney, for instance, will only get you about 6:30 of time instead of the 14:20 block.

[sealear]

[QUOTE=sealear;10022042]Huh? More like 90!

Nope he’s right on......did the logbook for 2017 and averaged 72 hours.....taking into account my 42 days of leave

Ok I see, but that's a very optimistic way of working it out.

[italian stallion]

May I ask those that have where have you gone to. And are you based in your home countries?
Curious as I have some decisions too to make.
Good luck guys

[SOPS]

Im back home...and not flying anymore...and loving it.

[falconeasydriver]

Well done The Outlaw, the sense of relief and well being will be palpable over the next few weeks and months, its also worth remembering that all the daft errands you get to do are mere reminders of your impending freedom.
It’s over 18 months now since I swapped the slaveship 777 for a 3 on 3 off professional career on a G650.
The kids love being surrounded by normal people with normal attitudes to normal issues, the wife loves being able to do basically anything she needs too with ease, and I enjoy being treated as a valued and respected employee.
EK can burn to the ground for all I care.

[ktm450r]

Hi Guys, I too have resigned. Can’t sleep anymore, can’t keep up with the daily bombardment of FCI’s. Fear factor and fatigue gone through the roof. Hating going to work these days.
I’ve been so tired sometimes that if anything had gone wrong (mechanically) I don’t know how I would have handled it.

Anyway, best of luck to those that are staying. And to those that are leaving - have the best time EVER !!!!

[Mach.888]

Wow.......
I know it is probably too much to wish for but I sincerely hope that the top man and AAR reads this.
How sad, that the frontmen of this airline, in such big number, cant wait to get out.

[SOPS]

Wow.......
I know it is probably too much to wish for but I sincerely hope that the top man and AAR reads this.
How sad, that the frontmen of this airline, in such big number, cant wait to get out.

What a legacy he has created. People admitting openly they cried with joy when they left. People saying "well done " to those who have the guts to leave. Unable to recruit ( it seems) for an airline that considers it self "Blue Ribbon" a SVPFO, and airline that used to demand thousands of hours on large jets to join, that now requires someone with a pulse and can recognise a 777 from 50 meters.Bonding FOs for 5 years and then when then when they upgrade, bonded again for another couple of years...what a fcuking mess he has created...but IM sure he sleeps well at night and counts his bonus.

[Fire Ball XL5]

Did my "decade in the dirt"... two weeks until salvation! Good luck to all! Trading my 777 for a "G950":} .. (that would be my golf clubs....) :ok:
FBXL5

[The Outlaw]

Wow.......
I know it is probably too much to wish for but I sincerely hope that the top man and AAR reads this.
How sad, that the frontmen of this airline, in such big number, cant wait to get out.

In order for him to read this, it would be an admission that he; a) cares and, b) would be willing to accept responsibility for the utter damage he has caused to the brand.

I think we all know that the score is "0" on both counts.

Either way it is irrelevant now as the damage is done. Any change (ha) would have been made a long time ago as has been said before. At this point it does not matter any longer because you cannot change it and despite all the recent (and free) "keep the lines of communication open" rhetoric, in reality they don't value your input and continue to degrade the conditions further.

So again, its not even about them anymore, its about the individual and how much the person is prepared to take.

[Talparc]

Sorry guys but the f... muppet AAR is illiterate.

[guts]

Hi guys, I left as well and could not be happier. I recommend everyone drop their resignation request to flood ops and to get some ones attention. Then those that need to stay can retract it,in the meantime it's the only negotiating play you have in hopes of getting a better contract. All the best..

[RK Blue sky]

Can't happen soon enough but I really need a job to go to without any interuption since I have bills to pay.
With the pilot shortage I know it will happen sooner rather than later.
Everyone I talk to that has left has said the same thing. They only wish they could have done it sooner.

[firegrass]

Hi guys, I left as well and could not be happier. I recommend everyone drop their resignation request to flood ops and to get some ones attention. Then those that need to stay can retract it,in the meantime it's the only negotiating play you have in hopes of getting a better contract. All the best..

That didn't work well in 89.....

[Gulf News]

That didn't work well in 89.....

Ha Ha. Sadly a large number of EK pilots were not even born by 1989 so would have little knowledge of what you are referring to.

A mass resignation with the intent to withdraw it later would bring out the very worst in EK management. Never underestimate the combination of arrogance, hubris and loss of face. Something like that would backfire horribly. Emirates and it’s owners have very deep pockets when it comes to saving face, just look at how quickly news of all the recent incidents including a spectacular hull loss have disappeared into the ether.

They would rather park aircraft than give in to employee pressure. That you can bet your job on.

[sealear]

I agree, those who remember (or know of) 89 would know that it would never work here and will only make things worse. As it has been said countless times before, things won't change until EK is on the brink of collapse due to crew shortage. For those of us that are still stuck here for a while, all we can do is make the most of the sh*t sandwich and leave at the earliest opportunity. EK management will learn one day when there is no one left to fly their shiney airplanes, but by then it will be too late and I will no longer care or be anywhere near ME :E

[guts]

Yep forgot about the history of 89. You're right,the management will dismantle the pilot group with a chainsaw with my suggestion of mass resignation letters. Hang in there if you must,get away when you're able I guess is my parting advice. Fly safe guys..
Cheers.

[sheiken around]

Hi guys and girls,

I’ve been gone almost 2years now. A fellow ex EK friend told me about this thread, so I’ll add in my 2 cents.

Congrats to all of you who have left, and congrats to all who are leaving!!

I did almost 8 years on the 330/340, including when it turned into an absolute sh1t show prior to their being parked.

I concur with all of the previous posters. Once you leave, for a flying career or otherwise, you honestly feel like you’re regained control of your life.

The big issue is that it takes leaving to make one realize exactly how poorly you were treated at Emirates. I hazard to guess that the treatment of crews has continued to deteriorate. I no longer read pprune so I’m not au fait with the current goings on.

As for me, my new employer treats me with respect and concern. I’m decently compensated, fairly worked and treated decently, fairly and honestly..3 things EK never did to me.

I wish you all of the best and hope that you can all get out before the day of reckoning comes for Emirates. I don’t care how deep their pockets are, or how much influence has, that day is coming, and woe betide those left there when it happens.

Safe travels all.

SA

[777-Up]

I don’t care how deep their pockets are, or how much influence has, that day is coming, and woe betide those left there when it happens.

What kind of armageddon you expecting?

Bankruptcy? Would have already happened if it was going to...

Accident(s)? Even if it does (hope not) will never lead to shut down...

Banned from USA? Unlikely but survivable...

War? Happened many times, minor speed-bump...

Can't get pilots? Pay raise & other improvements fix it...

Pestilence? Don't think so...

Famine? Park & Shop still open...

Your wishing it on us (with or without justification) doesn't make it so. What are we missing, that would cause your predicted total shut down & massive sorrow for those who remain?

[Craggenmore]

Jeez,

This forum has more ex-EK posters than current posters.......

#breakfreeonceandforall:ok:

[Emma Royds]

Can't get pilots? Pay raise & other improvements fix it...

Mmmmm... still waiting to see this! :eek:

[fatbus]

Those that get turned down by recruitment always wish the worst for EK. Same goes for the FO's that did not get their" promised" upgrade at 3 years. Many other frustrated pilots like to vent on Pprune and the flight deck. Personally I wish they would live it out of the flight deck. Everyone knows someone with the newest and juiciest of rumours, only to be proven wrong with time.
Children of the magenta ( and green) line thrive on social media ,hence fake news. It get tiring and boring quickly.
It use to be a fun job !

[greenfields]

777-up,

Bankruptcy? Would have already happened if it was going to...


I don't know if you have friends in other industries, but if you do, talk and start listening to them. The bailout (of Dubai) that occurred last time courtesy of Abu Dhabi won't, (because they no longer have the means), happen again. The UAE is in trouble - talk to those outside of aviation. Don't fall into the 'Too Big To Fail' mindset, history has proven over and over what happens when people start believing that fallacy. *Do I think that EK will go bankrupt? No. But you can't say it will never happen.

Accident(s)? Even if it does (hope not) will never lead to shut down...


No, but if EK bury a 380 there is going to be immense brand damage done, that will lead to the loss of a LOT of jobs. For a long time.

Can't get pilots? Pay raise & other improvements fix it... Are you new? Genuine question, because if you've been around for a while you'd realise that EK has been hurting for pilots for a long time because it isn't in a position to throw money to fix the problems anymore. Why do you think they have lowered the requirements to Turbo-Prop (not a go at T-P guys but rather at EK arrogance of not long ago - "We will never recruit non-Jet qualified pilots") and 2000hr jet jockeys? Why do you think all of the cost-cutting is occurring? Why do you think all the new 'revenue-raising' ideas are jumping up everyday?

Your wishing it on us (with or without justification) doesn't make it so. What are we missing, that would cause your predicted total shut down & massive sorrow for those who remain?
No, but he feels like most of us who have left and voiced something which deep down I will say he doesn't want to happen. In the most sincere case of schadenfreude I too have moments of wishing EK would go bust in the ugliest of manners, to completely destroy the arrogant rulers of the company. But that's the point isn't it? It won't destroy them, it'll destroy the 60,000 families of the employees of EK, but not those who deserve it most. So the occasional moments when I sit with a G&T and ponder the pleasure of watching those immature, arrogant, senseless and completely ill-equipped-for-the-job managers get their comeuppance are fleeting, because I know that the pain I want to inflict won't occur where it deserves to.

[MachWarp]

Well said Greenfields

[777-Up]

Hello Greenfields & Fatbus, yes I understand & agree on a number of your points. No, I'm not 'new'.

We have to be realistic. The strong probability is there's going to be an emma-rates around for the next 10, 20, 30+ years (and beyond).

It is indeed frustrating at times (constantly for some). My point is some wishing a thing to disappear, won't make it happen.

Now, I'm fairly happy here, however I fully understand why some are not. Each of us has to decide for ourselves.

The grass is always greener. Moving companies can have a huge influence on your & family future (education, health care still very good benefits here); possibly positive, possibly negative too.

I was at a location in the UK recently and spoke with the dispatcher who also handles Norwegian. He told us there are a number of ex-emma-rates Capts there. Not all are happy with their previous decision to leave.

One he spoke with sincerely regretted leaving ee-kay. He was working almost as much on 787, for about 1/2 the take-home pay. While 'based' in his home country, but away from home more, on longer layovers.

Just relaying what dispatcher said.

There's no easy answers. The pay & conditions will improve here (I'm guessing by about 10%+) when they absolutely have to, and when it makes clear commercial sense for them to do so. Shouldn't be that way, as a lot of talent walked away but it's on them.

Being proactive appears to be something some org find challenging.

Let's hope it's sooner, rather than later...

[Emma Royds]

The pay & conditions will improve here (I'm guessing by about 10%+)

Whilst I would love to see that, it's simply not going to happen. 10% across the board for pilots would comfortably push the salary cost up by another 40 million USD per year (and thats me being conservative with my 'back of the fag packet' calculations).

I don't want to be seen as negative but simply being a realist. There will of course be a EK in the years ahead and that is certain but in what size and shape that EK will develop into, is less certain.

[777-Up]

Whilst I would love to see that, it's simply not going to happen. 10% across the board...

You could be right. It all depends on how tight the market for pilot is/gets, and how low experience they'll hire.

If they're parking aircraft due to manpower (if) and they believe it's costing them money, an increase becomes a fairly simple business decision.

We'll have to wait & see. Viewers just need to keep in mind; certain scribes here may be encouraging others to leave, hoping to create a greater outflow, so those who remain can try to reap the benefits of staying, should pay go up.

[SOPS]

It will never happen....we got a "big " rise, the year after I joined..2007. From then on it has gone down hill. The "contract" that I signed in 2007 talks about 75 hours a month, then overtime, 6 weeks annual leave....yada, yada, yada.....do not wait for a increase in benefits, it will never happen....the only way to increase your personal benefit is to leave....

[777-Up]

It will never happen....
That's what they were saying here about the recent, new A380 order... 380 was going into the dustbin of history. Then the new order happened.

Nothing stays the same forever. People change, positions change, orgs re-evaluate. Watch this space for news by March/April.

[donpizmeov]

Em 10% would still not catch us up to the increments we have had withheld. I think you are right though.

[777-Up]

Em 10% would still not catch us up to the increments we have had withheld. I think you are right though.

You're right Don. We'll still be behind. 10% better than nothing. And there's also next year beyond that.

[felixthecat]

Excise duty in 2017, VAT 1 January 2018, inflation for the last year.........I think we are lucky if we get change out of a 15% increase in the last year. That doesn't mention the previous years worth of inflation, where we didn't even get the 3% to help cover it.

By rough estimates, we are down by at least 20% plus since the last step in 2016.

10% wouldn't even keep us level to 2 years ago. :(

[777-Up]

10% wouldn't even keep us level to 2 years ago. :(

Agreed, my friend.

[Sorry Dog]

As curious person outside of the ME...

If a 10% rise were to happen...

Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)

If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?

[felixthecat]

As curious person outside of the ME...

If a 10% rise were to happen...

Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)

If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?

You have missed the huge increase in hours (75 turning into 90+) alongside the slow erosion in terms and conditions and pay. Its akin to having your cake and eating it.....T&C need to improve alongside at least keeping the pay at a level that it was accounting for inflation and increased taxation.

[harry the cod]

Sorry Dog

I'm sure the majority of EK pilots would take a 10% reduction in hours any day.

However, and here's the rub, to achieve such a reduction, you firstly need to have the correct manpower levels in place. We haven't, and the only way that's ever going to change is by attracting skilled and competent individuals with a competitive and enhanced package. Not a two tier system or one that offers a tempting joining bonus, but a revamp across the entire board to stem the flow of current experienced and qualified pilots.

Harry

[fatbus]

Add to that - slow down attrition. Basings and/or part time.

[GMC1500]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.

[glofish]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.
Are you one of those "professionals" who's first action in cruise is to install a birds nest with 3 cussions and a duvet, only to tell the surprised colleague that you have a hard roster and damn the company, that you want to close your eyes for 20 and snore your way through a whole hour?
😈

[motley flight crue]

Earnt more in one month than 10 months in previous job. Shows we’re hiring from some quality airlines.

[SOPS]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.

either he is in Costa, a new joiner, or simply mad...

[sealear]

Are you one of those "professionals" who's first action in cruise is to install a birds nest with 3 cussions and a duvet, only to tell the surprised colleague that you have a hard roster and damn the company, that you want to close your eyes for 20 and snore your way through a whole hour?
😈

Don't you just love those 'professionals' 😂

[GoreTex]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.

And if you would have been here a few years ago when the overtime threshold was much lower you would have made some serious money.

(Please man up and upgrade your GMC 1500 to a 2500 Diesel)

[fliion]

Don't you just love those 'professionals' 😂

Maybe I’m missing something here.

Would someone please explain to me why taking longer than 20min controlled rest with all the accoutrements is - unprofessional?

[GMC1500]

Been here over 9 years, the overtime threshold was upped to 92 hours during my initial training, so almost never saw it back then. That sucked.
As for previous job, I was an FO there, and I earned that big check as a capt here, so apples to oranges in a sense. Nonetheless, pay in Canada sucked then and it still does, and it certainly does not indicate the quality of the company I came from.
BTW I don't own the 1500 anymore, but I'm not going to change my screen name to my current wheels.

[GillEx737]

Jeez,

This forum has more ex-EK posters than current posters.......

#breakfreeonceandforall:ok:

Haha! So true...

[Eau de Boeing]

Let it go..... Let it go.......

[sealear]

Maybe I’m missing something here.

Would someone please explain to me why taking longer than 20min controlled rest with all the accoutrements is - unprofessional?

Not at all, in fact controlled rest is (sadly) an integral part of making ek tolerable on an almost daily basis. But if you read the original post again carefully, we all know someone who does this.....

Anyway, not here to attack my colleagues!!!!!

[Iznogood]

GMC1500 said he is neither in Costa nor a new joiner, so SOP do you think he is simply mad?

[White none please]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.

Ideal job for someone with no friends, hobbies , and no desire to spend time with their family..........

[glofish]

Maybe I’m missing something here.

Would someone please explain to me why taking longer than 20min controlled rest with all the accoutrements is - unprofessional?
fliion is online now Report Post


http://flightsafety.org/asw/dec09-jan10/asw_dec09-jan10_p38-42.pdf

[SilverSeated]

Question is...is it possible to fly a 90+ hr Boeing roster at EK without controlled rest, I consider myself fit and sane and I couldn’t safely manage without it...

[glofish]

It's not a question about "if or not", it's about how and its overstretch.

Read the above pamphlet and the faa recommendations of (if i'm not wrong) 2008 and subsequently 2010 (google it, i'm a little lazy posting the links).

Everyone uses napping or controlled rest, but there's some important findings about the "how" and, as i sarcastically stated above, it is not intended to compensate for abusive rostering by the company or greedy bidding, just as not intended to compensate a lavish lifestyle and making "heaploads of money" at the same time.

Your colleagues are not supposed to pick up anything like that.

The main reason has to be addressed: The company rostering up to the max!

[Glorified Dus Briver]

This thread should be shown to all the 12yr old "Aspiring Emirates Pilots" who think Emirates is the best airline in the world. Oh how naive....