Condescending rubbish

[Lions Gate]

Just read the latest Wednesday Liar. I am speechless at the level of gall displayed in the condescending crap written by the DFO. Constantly referring to how the "Captains" have saved the day. AT, spare us the insult. We know you have no respect for us, we know you have no understanding of our jobs, and we certainly know you have no sense of value for us. You have been whacked with Yammer and the AOA comments, and you know that you have shown us complete disrespect and contempt.

A few measly words in a newsletter won't change how hundreds of us feel about you. We are not fooled or bought off by such cheap and patronizingly pathetic words. You either pay us, or you will continue to see the results of our disgust towards the treatment you have given us.

Other airlines around the world have rewarded their pilots with large pay increases and improvements in benefits. You have only made our lives worse. You have caused me an 8% pay cut so far, and I am responding personally to re-balance that. You have caused thousands of your pilots to reconsider their career choice, and most are making firm plans to leave.

Spare us the condescension and demonstrate your real appreciation for our skills and efforts with an improvement to ALL areas of our package (pay,housing,retirement/travel). Otherwise you will see our disgust and anger manifested in a real way against the operation.

[DropKnee]

CX Captains have failed in the art of sitting on their hands. Still witness some fixing the Airlines problems from the left seat. Stop!

[Trafalgar]

....you can't fix "stupid"....:rolleyes:

[Private jet]

What's the standard of engineering like in CX these days?

[Krone]

How’s posting yet another rant on Pprune, going to recover your 8 % pay cut?

Still no tide of resignations. Lots of hot air in the cockpit. And yes, I raise my hand , I’m guilty of ranting a bit at work, saying I'm looking at this and that. But like 99% , I’m still here. :ugh:

[mngmt mole]

Well, apparently you are only 27 yrs old, so your inability to appreciate the bigger career perspective is expected. I assume your 'lots of hot air in the cockpit' comment is speaking for yourself, as is your comment about 'still here'. You and AT will get along famously. Very productive post and btw, the resignations are ramping up and are already far ahead of the long term average, so your statement isn't even correct. Four of my last 6 regional crew are interviewing/and or awaiting course dates. That isn't my imagination.

[Freehills]

What's the standard of engineering like in CX these days?

In home base/ heavy maintenance, all outsourced mostly to the manufacturers and power by hour deals ( RR/ GE/ Airbus/ Boeing etc & HAECO ) Line maintenance in outstations in house. CX engineering is mostly procurement/ QA/ monitoring. To be fair they don't have much leeway, HKCAD doesn't have the expertise to understand/ approve any variation from manufacturer/ JAA/ FAA procedures & manuals so they don't. So if Airbus/ Honeywell/ whoever say this is the way it is done, CX pay someone to do it that way

[Luggage]

More ranting will not do a thing. Until CX pilots are willing to resign in large numbers (YES that means some will have to be the sacrificial lamb) nothing will change.

2 or 3 captains and FO'S resigning here and there is manageable. When the get 150 to 200 resignations in one month then it becomes a problem.

I really am on your side and hope the CX pilot group gets their wish and increased pay, housing etc but until you take real action nothing will change.

The guys bleat on week in and week out but until you truly show you are prepared to and WILL walk away from CX in very large numbers then forget it.

Might as well just get on with the job and plan accordingly!! I know it is a hard pill to swallow but that is the REALITY and CX/SWIRE know this.

[Scoreboard]

Already well on my way with getting my 8% and more......tonne for tom sick leave reti what?or its yeaah reti while i push the remaining thrust up.

[enoughisenough_]

Still waiting for the "flood" of resignations...

[Luggage]

Wont happen, not in big enough numbers anyway to cause real damage!:ugh:

[Air Profit]

The resignation rate is increasing by the month. It is already at worrying levels (and that info from a very high level). That doesn't even take into account the 'lag time' between people applying, then interviewing, then commencing their new start date. That is inexorably adding to the numbers month on month. As for resignations having any effect, that is irrelevant to those leaving. They are leaving to look ahead and enjoy their next career, not worry about the one they have left behind. Most of the mid-seniority pilots in this airline are either considering, planning or executing a change of employer. That fact is already baked in, and nothing this management does now will change that. It's all about trust, something that this management hasn't a hope of re-establishing. Most of us have figured out that the leopard will never change it's spots. No one wants to risk their entire career at the hands of abject liars and bullies.

[Cpt. Underpants]

All that’ll be left will be locals and saffers (because the DFO loves saffers)
Why saffers? Because “they’ve nowhere else to go”. Nice one, AT. Enjoy the house in Tuscany. Well deserved.

[Ghost_Rider737]

Is EVA air an option for CX FO's ?

[Freehills]

More money in China I would think

[Betsy]

What's the standard of engineering like in CX these days?

Over 100 Haeco mechanics/engineers have jumped ship to the MTR with more to leave. Standard? what standard?

[spannersatcx]

In CX it's very good, outside/outsourced that's a different matter! Why?

[etops330]

More ranting will not do a thing. Until CX pilots are willing to resign in large numbers (YES that means some will have to be the sacrificial lamb) nothing will change.

2 or 3 captains and FO'S resigning here and there is manageable. When the get 150 to 200 resignations in one month then it becomes a problem.

I really am on your side and hope the CX pilot group gets their wish and increased pay, housing etc but until you take real action nothing will change.

The guys bleat on week in and week out but until you truly show you are prepared to and WILL walk away from CX in very large numbers then forget it.

Might as well just get on with the job and plan accordingly!! I know it is a hard pill to swallow but that is the REALITY and CX/SWIRE know this.

Use Ryanair as an example, there is always a large number of dissatisfied pilots within RYR for many many years, however, unless you have a large enough destructive force to kick-start the process, in RYR case Norwegians large pilot recruitment campaign, offering sign on bonus, better pay and an actual employment contract, there won't be a large exodus of pilots, especially Captain walking out anytime soon, and that's exactly what Swire is betting on.

Those guys have the mortgage and bills to pay, not to mentions the ex-wife (or in some case ex-wives :ugh:) maintenance allowances...etc, it's totally unrealistic to ask those men to leave when they're close to retirement or on the old contract, what you need is a proper union, with some sort of industrial actions. You need a general secretary who can organise, lead and preferably not a current employee of any of the four airlines in Hong Kong. All the airlines are in a mess in HK one way or another, even CAD is in deep :mad: Have I lost the plot or is it a fair comment?

[Luggage]

I agree with what you say, we are probably just coming at the same problem from different ends. You mention the financial costs etc involved for pilots to leave which is what I was saying about somebody will have to be the sacrificial lamb/s but nobody is prepared to be.

It would be best if the senior captains all left for hight paying Chinese commuting jobs in massive numbers causing a captain shortage. They have plenty of money and will get a good gig anywhere.

The point is the pilot group regardless of who you are need to be prepared to take a stand and say we wont stand for this crap anymore and leave in huge numbers to teach them a lesson.

All the guys who join CX after being warned how rubbish it is then have the audacity to complain 5 years down the road about how bad things are. They all took the easy option, no bond type rating with a severe case of SJS and wonder why they hate their lives.

On top of that non of them are prepared to walk away, especially in large numbers on principle even if it means you take a financial hit. Cant feel sorry for those pilots!!:ugh:

[ACMS]

“They have plenty of money.......”

Really?

[Trafalgar]

Luggage


You say " financial costs etc involved for pilots to leave". That is the fatal conceit of our management. They have so devalued the average career of a pilot in CX, that most no longer have much of a financial "benefit" in staying. It certainly was the case 20+ years ago, but with the insidious effect of B/C/D/E scale (and F/G/H...to come), and the added effect of knowing you have no chance of ever overcoming the effect of HK housing costs (and food/schooling/health etc), has left nearly all pilots in the airline realising that the only sensible career choice is to establish themselves on a seniority list back in their home countries. CX has LCC'd themselves into oblivion, which the ever increasing rates of resignations, combined with ever more scarce new hires will drive the final nails into the coffin of this airline. Well done CX management. Here's to your bonuses (and to hell with the long-term and loyal employees and their families who you have effectively destroyed). :D

[Starbear]

Didn’t think he’s a Pom!

[BusyB]

She doesn't like anybody who holds a contract that she can't change.

[cxorcist]

Bingo! CX only likes pilots they can screw over on a whim, and that’s all you really need to know about CX.

[VR-HFX]

Two ex CEO's have told me to my face that AT is way out of her depth and that they were surprised with the appointment. Both long gone and no axes to grind. Which begs the leading questions...why was she appointed?; and; who appointed her? I'll have a stab...and it starts in Singapore.

[Luggage]

Trafalgar, I dont doubt for one second your management are complete bunch of tools. I have noticed a lot of you have warned young guys not to join because of the problems CX has but they will not listen.

I get annoyed when they complain after being told how bad things are. However my point was pilots at CX need to bail in massive numbers, like 150 - 200 a month to make a statement and bring SWire to its knees but nobody will do it.

It would be good to see all the captains leave as that would hurt but I also understand a guy who is 60 thinking Im done soon anyway.

However guys who are 45 and younger have no excuse. They need to bail and bring CX to its knees. The current management would probably be fired if that happened anyway.

Until the pilot group take a real stand and do what is right by a massive continuous strike or resign in large numbers then nothing will change.
There are too many whingers there but non of them are prepared to become the sacrificial lamb.:ugh:

[Hongkie land]

after years and years, back and forth with management, did you noticed the staff who toils and sweats will never win.

you can whinge and cry and abuse and even sabotage as much as you want. but at the end of the day, you will never win. good or bad, right or wrong, management will always show its pride and glory, no matter how much they &^%$ up.

u need to wake up; AT wont die. she is protected in all ways. look at the ex high flyers. all are now gone or dead, but AT is still here running the show and still going strong.

its time to either stop sulking and suck it up, and get on with the job or if you have the balls, get a real job where the pastures are greener on the other paddock. Its really boring to listen to daily sulkings where really you are getting no where.

[Freehills]

Two ex CEO's have told me to my face that AT is way out of her depth and that they were surprised with the appointment. Both long gone and no axes to grind. Which begs the leading questions...why was she appointed?; and; who appointed her? I'll have a stab...and it starts in Singapore.

I think it goes back to PH. Yes, he was roundly disliked, but what did for him was the 3rd floor upset that he was rocking the boat re sweetheart deals on basing/ housing policy exceptions etc. So someone is needed that will transmit messages from on high, but not interfere with 3rd floor right to manage as they see fit. See EFB, new rostering system, etc.

[Luggage]

Hongkie land

Completely agree. If you hate it that much have some dignity and walk away. Join another airline or do something else!

[BBN RADAR]

Mr Luggage,
Whilst I agree with your root argument; that until pilots start leaving in large enough numbers to affect the bottom line, nothing will change, it is naive and unrealistic to expect them to do so out of spite and vindictiveness. People change employers for a better offer (which can be in the form of an increase in financial package and/or improved lifestyle, increased job satisfaction etc.). If the secondary effect of leaving the company disrupts the operations when the employer was being a greedy, lying, unreasonable ****, then that’s a nice little bonus for leaver’s and stayer’s alike.

Until resignations do increase to significant amounts (and, I think your analysis of 150-200/month being the required number is a bit over the top), we can only infer that there are insufficient offers around that are enticing to CX pilots. This is especially the case for the captains. Some of the posts on here suggest there could be a mass exodus shortly, and as someone pointed out there is usually a large lag time between applications & interviews being completed, and start dates & resignations being handed in. 6-9 months should cover that, meaning if you’re reading this come mid-September and it hasn’t happened, it may never happen.

[Trafalgar]

It's happening. Certainly the interviews are. Too many of my colleagues have confirmed they personally have or are doing so for that not to be a fact.

[mngmt mole]

Another factor coming into play is that now that many of our colleagues have moved on, they encourage their remaining colleagues in CX to do the same. The FO on my flight this past weekend was a case in point. His close friend has been at his new carrier in Europe for the past 4 months. He has now interviewed based on his friends recommendation and he is awaiting a course date. No one wants to get left behind on a modern day version of the Titanic.

[Starbear]

Just caught up with this topic and am simply astonished that she can open the proceedings with the following:

DFO Update
“We have been looking forward to sharing the results of the Employee Engagement Survey for both FOP Ground Staff and Cockpit Crew”

Just complete and utter bolleau, whilst acknowledging a 29% engagement of relevant employees (to this thread). When the truth is they would far rather endure the less embarrassing walk over hot coals or heated needles in the eyes.

I suppose the real question is why on earth I am even surprised let alone astonished.