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View Full Version : Another rip off in the pipeline


crewmeal
13th Jan 2018, 07:01
Firms impose new charges to dodge ban on credit card fees | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5264671/Firms-impose-new-charges-dodge-ban-credit-card-fees.html)

Interesting times ahead for the poor UK traveller. My agent has asked me to pay via bank card instead of credit card because of the fees. Not too happy as if they go bust I lose out.

UniFoxOs
13th Jan 2018, 07:51
I always look at the bottom line price when comparing deals. If it is a price I am prepared to pay I go ahead.

The difference to me between using credit or debit card (paid off every month on SO) is the square root of FA, therefore I will inevitable be using the credit card in future instead of the debit card for the purposes of the insurance protection and to piss off the seller.

Wickerbill
13th Jan 2018, 08:03
Extra protection isn't needed if you are ATOL protected. If you are buying direct from an airline don't worry too much. The only fundamentally unsound scheduled carrier has already gone.

RAT 5
13th Jan 2018, 09:45
The issue is of seriousness in that there are so many places and events where a ticket can only be bought on the internet, and therefore via a card. It is not an option. This is now true of theatre tickets. At some places it is impossible to visit the building and buy a ticket with cash. Likewise airline tickets. Where a ticket can be bought only via the internet the selling companies can squeeze you as much as they like. You have no choice, and as with baggage charges etc. once one starts the rest follow. My local national carrier has gone from zero to €15 per sector over the past 3 years, and a €10 booking fee even though I'm doing all the work. Hotel booking sites that charge €19.50 reservation fees. The same true with Loco's; administration costs??? What are those? and compulsory insurance??? For what?
I suggest and hope that governments will police this matter effectively is like expecting the Pope to excommunicate many of his dodgy priests.

Is this credit card charge issue a UK thing or EU?

Uplinker
13th Jan 2018, 09:59
My local national carrier has gone from zero to €15 per sector over the past 3 years, and a €10 booking fee even though I'm doing all the work. Hotel booking sites that charge €19.50 reservation fees. The same true with Loco's; administration costs??? What are those? and compulsory insurance??? For what?

Come on, you know the answer - you cannot run an airline or a hotel if you only charge £sod all for the tickets. You have to claw back the money somehow.

Cheaper does not mean better!

Dan Dare
13th Jan 2018, 10:43
It seems to me somehow so much more honest to say “this is the price” and to stick to it (like BA used to). I always feel more minded to do business with such companies. I suppose the reason they all seem to go for low baseline price is to sucker you in before adding all the extras. It leaves a nasty taste and I try not to return. I guess the beancounters see more value in one sucker than a lifetime-loyal customer.

Jet II
13th Jan 2018, 12:14
Hannah Maundrell, of comparison website Money.co.uk, said: ĎThis makes a mockery of the law which is trying to protect us from getting ripped off.í

Well if you introduce a new Law that is going to increase the costs of doing business just what in the hell did you think was going to happen..:ugh:

UniFoxOs
13th Jan 2018, 13:39
The issue is of seriousness in that there are so many places and events where a ticket can only be bought on the internet

And it's not just private concerns for tickets etc., you now can't pay cash at a Registry office, it has to be a card.

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Jan 2018, 14:12
The difference to me between using credit or debit card (paid off every month on SO) is the square root of FA
Not if the supplier turns out to be a scammer, or goes bust, or whatever, it isn't. Credit card: get your money back. Debit card: go whistle.

ExXB
13th Jan 2018, 14:21
We only have ourselves to blame for this. We insist on the lowest price regardless. So one aviation model uses the plus plus philosophy. Advertises a price which includes nothing else and then adds on the charges for baggage, seats, credit cards, etc. The network model, which used to include everything canít compete on price. Somehow a £100 fare, plus £20 bag, plus £18 seat, plus £10 credit card is cheaper than a £130 fare which includes everything. Plus the cost of food and drink which many network airlines continue to offer.

£130 is a lot more than £100, even when it isnít. We all focus on price, nothing else and we are too stupid to understand that the initial upfront price isnít going to result in the final price.

Some years ago Air Canada offered an all-in price, where you could deduct amounts for the bits you didn't want. $10 off for no bag, $15 off for no miles, etc. Didnít work, people only care about the lowest posted price.

Why should I pay more if someone else wants to use a credit card? Why shouldnít I get a discount when paying by bank transfer (no-cost; or debit card (lower-cost)

RAT 5
13th Jan 2018, 14:44
In late 70's as credit cards became more common, many shops charged 2% extra for their use. (indeed I know of some places that still do make an extra flat charge if not using cash.) This was then absorbed in the price or not allowed. Whichever. Margret Thatcher, trying to be seen as a champ[ion of the consumer, tried to advocate a discount for cash buyers. It didn't work. Cash is not liked by governments, but they do not make the use of cards more financially honest for the consumer. Banks too. There are some countries where the banks charge businesses for depositing cash. So the use of debit cards has risen. The days when I could negotiate a local deal for cash have reduced. Some businesses find it a bit of a pain. However, if VAT can be reduced for cash then it's attractive, but that doesn't help with internet only purchases.
So if governments are promoting internet selling and card usage they need to protect consumers for rip off and not rely on

UniFoxOs
13th Jan 2018, 15:59
Not if the supplier turns out to be a scammer, or goes bust, or whatever, it isn't. Credit card: get your money back. Debit card: go whistle.

True enough - another reason for me to use credit cards henceforth.

beeg0d
13th Jan 2018, 17:18
Is this credit card charge issue a UK thing or EU?

EU Directive but the Uk's implimtation gose further then the directive.

goudie
13th Jan 2018, 17:27
My debit card was cloned and several payments were taken from my account. My Bank was on to it like a shot. On the phone to me to check if I recognized the payment. Cancelled the card and refunded the money.

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Jan 2018, 20:01
My debit card was cloned and several payments were taken from my account. My Bank was on to it like a shot. On the phone to me to check if I recognized the payment. Cancelled the card and refunded the money.
It's slightly embarrassing when the phone call comes when you're still at the point of sale, and it was a genuine purchase ... but I prefer that to being ripped off!

The other calls I get are "do you recognise this purchase, press 1 for yes or 2 for no" but there isn't a "press 3 for I don't actually know, but my wife's out shopping so for all I know it could be genuine".

Hyph
13th Jan 2018, 22:12
EU Directive but the Uk's implimtation gose further then the directive.

In what way?

chevvron
14th Jan 2018, 05:04
Ryanair advert on TV in the UK still says '2% surcharge for credit cards'.

ExXB
14th Jan 2018, 06:01
My debit card was cloned and several payments were taken from my account. My Bank was on to it like a shot. On the phone to me to check if I recognized the payment. Cancelled the card and refunded the money.

My British bank (NatW) refuses to call, email or text me as I live outside of the UK. Postal delivery is about 10 days.

beeg0d
14th Jan 2018, 07:47
In what way?

The EU Directive dose not cover premium cards (AMEX,Diners etc) UK legislation dose.

Uplinker
14th Jan 2018, 10:14
It seems to me somehow so much more honest to say “this is the price” and to stick to it (like BA used to). I always feel more minded to do business with such companies. I suppose the reason they all seem to go for low baseline price is to sucker you in before adding all the extras. It leaves a nasty taste and I try not to return. I guess the beancounters see more value in one sucker than a lifetime-loyal customer.

The beancounters have created an entire industry out of thin air - the LoCo’s - by suckering people in with low prices and then clawing back as much as they can. Folk who would never dreamed of flying many years ago now do so. We had a person on our Tenerife flight once who said, “I’m not staying long, I have to be back on Thursday to sign on again”.

Credit card users benefit from all sorts of extra insurances, and this has to be paid for somehow, hence the extra fees.

This low cost business really is a disease, nobody wants to pay anything anymore.

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Jan 2018, 10:36
The EU Directive dose not cover premium cards (AMEX,Diners etc) UK legislation dose.
Tories looking after rich buggers again, nothing new here.

Tankertrashnav
14th Jan 2018, 11:07
When I ran a small shop I found that the average person did not know that I incurred charges for accepting cards, or indeed cheques, when they were still the most common method of payment. The average private account holder who enjoys free banking may not realise that this is subsidised by business accounts which incur charges for every transaction, in and out. I was lucky that I was in a low turnover/high margin business so I could absorb card charges of around 4% (common for small businesses), but for somebody working on very tight margins, bank/card charges can mean the difference between profit and loss.

That's not to say that there are no rip offs - excessive card charges for theatre and concert tickets being among the prime offenders.

By the way, why does anybody still use American Express? In common with loads of retailers I refused to take it as the charges were so high. There is always a Visa/Mastercard option wherever you go.

ian16th
14th Jan 2018, 12:42
By the way, why does anybody still use American Express? In common with loads of retailers I refused to take it as the charges were so high. There is always a Visa/Mastercard option wherever you go.
Amex & Diners supply a good service to corporates. Their accounting systems tie in with local tax requirements et al.

I had a company Diners Card that I used for company travel.

When checking out of hotels, I had a case where the front desk clerk saw my personal MC and asked me to use it. He wasn't impressed when I insisted on using the Diners Card.

Diners also had lounges at major airports. A nice to have.

Like all 'company' costs, they are tax deductable, so they are not too expensive for the services provided.

For anyone paying from after tax income, they are a no go.

RAT 5
15th Jan 2018, 09:21
That's not to say that there are no rip offs - excessive card charges for theatre and concert tickets being among the prime offenders.

That is a good example of what needs policing and sorting out. The only place to purchase a ticket is the internet er-go use a credit card. There is only one agent selling. They have a monopoly and you by the short & curlies. If ever there was a need for consumer protection this rip-off falls into that list.

ukc_mike
15th Jan 2018, 10:56
My British bank (NatW) refuses to call, email or text me as I live outside of the UK. Postal delivery is about 10 days.

NatWest have just changed their policy. I can now use their app on a Belgian phone (still thinking about that one), and I had a text message (again to a Belgian number) on Saturday reminding me of a credit card payment being due.

funfly
15th Jan 2018, 13:25
What is the attraction of having a cashpoint machine on your wall apart from attracting potential customers into your store? Do stores get a %%

G-CPTN
15th Jan 2018, 14:18
What is the attraction of having a cashpoint machine on your wall apart from attracting potential customers into your store? Do stores get a %%

Yes. . . . . .