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Pain in the R's
13th Jan 2018, 07:38
Donald Trump must apologise for comments - African Union - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42670715)

I don't normally agree with much that President Trump says but is it not the case that he is being criticised for just telling the truth?

Captain Dart
13th Jan 2018, 08:03
How can President Trump look at this Haitian beach and call it a shithole? - Michael Smith News (http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/01/how-can-president-trump-look-at-this-haitian-beach-and-call-it-a-shithole.html)

I know, it’s not in Africa.

Dan_Brown
13th Jan 2018, 08:09
I agree with Trump. If you had visited or lived there, so would you. If Africa was so bloody good, why don't the migrants go back there?!!

Trump is not as silly as he looks or acts. He has helped get the 2 Korea's talking again and intends to place the US embassy in Jerusalem, where it should be. By doing this he has united the whole ME at least, (albeit it against him).

Metro man
13th Jan 2018, 08:10
He said Americans were celebrating that "self-evident truth" that "no matter what the colour of our skin or the place of our birth, we are all created equal by God".

This is the incorrect part of his statement, I can’t run a 4 minute mile, compose an opera or perform brain surgery. However some people can, I can fly an airliner but couldn’t run an airline successfully.

People are created differently with varying talents, some common and some very rare. We are most certainly not all equal.

Without naming names, the countries at the bottom of this list are probably the ones he means.

https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

piperboy84
13th Jan 2018, 08:48
Trump pitching Lockheed Martin products?
3958

IcePack
13th Jan 2018, 09:02
Democrat says he heard the word used. Republicans say they did not hear him say it. Now half of Africa wants an apology for something they do not know was said or not. Que?

sitigeltfel
13th Jan 2018, 09:14
Now half of Africa wants an apology for something they do not know was said or not. Que?

Are they so incensed that they will hand back the $billions in US aid they have received?
Aid that was needed because they are sh.......

tartare
13th Jan 2018, 09:22
Jesus guys.
Surely you're better than this?
It was a pig ignorant, stupid thing to say.

wiggy
13th Jan 2018, 09:23
is it not the case that he is being criticised for just telling the truth?

...Possibly...TBF I'm sure it is on record that other Presidents have used similarly "fruity" expressions, but is the "leader of the Free World" using such language in what seems to have been an open discussion helpful to anybody but himself...?

WilliumMate
13th Jan 2018, 10:05
Some Presidents fought hard for the USA to be isolationist. Trump doesn't have to try. #genius.

Fareastdriver
13th Jan 2018, 10:05
using such language in what seems to have been an open discussion

It was in the Oval Office in a conference with lawmakers. I would have thought that that was private or even confidential.

It shows the character of the Democratic members in order to score cheap political points.

Eclectic
13th Jan 2018, 10:13
The SJW, liberal, politically correct, metropolitan elite hate it when Trump tells home truths. Luckily they are a minority.
How many of those who are spitting out their dummies have actually been to Africa and seen these shit holes for themselves?

wiggy
13th Jan 2018, 10:23
On the subject of the same conversation I wonder if we could broaden debate about where POTUS would like to get any immigrants from? I wonder how many of those spitting their dummies out about people spitting their dummies out have actually been to Norway...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-norway/thanks-but-no-thanks-norwegians-reject-trumps-immigration-offer-idUSKBN1F11QK

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/norwegians-tell-trump-we-dont-want-to-come-to-your-shole-country-a8156666.html

SpringHeeledJack
13th Jan 2018, 10:25
What is said off the record should be just that, lord only knows what is said behind closed doors by our leaders about other countries, let alone about the citizens of their own land! Trump isn't a politician, or a diplomat. He's a mercurial corporate king dealmaker, born entitled and unable to be denied in most normal cases. He says what he thinks and either can't or won't control these urges. To write him off as stupid/ignorant/childish is to underestimate his intelligence and tactical nous. No doubt working for him is a nightmare and most high achievers (who themselves have large egos) cannot tow the line and this appears to be the case so far. Off to a high paying corporate gig than stay in a restricted govt gig.

Trump is shaking things up, I'm not able to see the ramifications fully, but by the amount of whining from the establishment elements around the world, things are changing. To mock his face, hairstyle, dress sense, relationship in the way the press and governments have done so far, is unprecedented in modern times. He is the elected POTUS, by the people, for the people etc etc, for better, or worse and that should be respected. The near constant attacks to diminish him and therefor his tenure is, again, unprecedented.

His supposed 'sh1thole' comments, if true, are a fair reflection on the countries mentioned. Not very PC, not very nice to hear, but in the main true.

B Fraser
13th Jan 2018, 10:27
Some races of people have longer Achilles tendons which makes them faster runners, those same people have denser bones (which is a good thing) which makes them poor swimmers. Some races are lactose tolerant and have pale skins which produce vitamin D more easily, other races are lactose intolerant but work hard and are never seen claiming benefits.

Some countries would ignore the comments of a fool but others have to be seen to take offence.

oldchina
13th Jan 2018, 10:40
At least we now know his position on evolution:
"the self-evident truth .... that we are all created equal by God"

goudie
13th Jan 2018, 12:59
Yes there are some countries, like it or not, that are shitholes or have places that are. The USA has quite few of them!

Two's in
13th Jan 2018, 13:26
When your stupid fat uncle uses the phrase "shitholes", you know it's because he's either ignorant, dull-witted, or probably both, so you let it go. When you meet people who suggest brown people are not as intellectually robust as Aryans, you immediately put them into the category of racist, xenophobic hate-mongers. We all meet these people and understand that hatred and bigotry are widespread.

But we don't generally expect leaders of large democracies to behave like our stupid fat uncles. We expect to see some level of leadership and inspiration to encourage everybody - including those unfortunate enough to live in "shitholes" - to find a path forwards and out of the blight that has affected them. Immigration has been one of those devices that allows for hope and dignity, while enriching and de-polarizing our society.

Using derogatory terms completely ignores the history of how these places became so despotic, the west's role in that degradation, and how we are in a position to bring change and hope to millions of dispossessed. To dismiss them is a defense mechanism born solely out of hatred and ignorance, and to try and persuade your "base" that "shitholes" need to remain "shitholes" simply confirms their bias towards white privilege.

Trump doesn't have a single atom of leadership in him, he divides and destroys all he touches, reinforcing the negatives and ignoring any scintilla of hope for those not fortunate enough to be born the right color.

So no, he is not just "telling the truth" he is spreading the mantra of privilege and division due to race. A true unreconstructed racist, with many followers.

HEMS driver
13th Jan 2018, 13:40
It's fake news planted by the deep state.

However, it's true. Get over it, snowflakes.

Dan_Brown
13th Jan 2018, 13:57
He is doing the world a great favour. Not only has he cut a lot of this PC rubbish into touch.

On the Eco front, the more countries and continents throw toys out the pram, upon hearing home truths it will cut down on his travel. Helps save the planet. What's on the list? Australia, Africa , North Korea, UK, most of Europe..

SASless
13th Jan 2018, 14:19
I would like to see a comparison of comments about those who supported "Brexit" and those who challenge the credibility of Global Warming theories to that of those that acknowledge some places on this Earth are in fact "Shit Holes".

Anyone ever been to South Los Angles, Liberty City in Miami, the slums of Washington DC, Lagos, Port Harcourt, Manila, and many other places in Africa, Mexico and Central and South America....yes....even Haiti.

Why is calling a place what it is deemed offensive when it is the "truth"?

Take a wander over in the Brexit Thread and read the comments for yourself and you will see to what I refer. Even the Scottish Independence Thread for that matter as there is much the same kind of posts.

The argument can be about how the places came to be wha they are and how to remedy that (if there is a remedy) but not as to the actual status of the place.

IcePack
13th Jan 2018, 16:14
How many expletive deleted did the Nixon Watergate tapes have on them.

fltlt
13th Jan 2018, 16:41
I am so tired of self righteous politicians, you want to hear the real language used, drive them around Washington in WHTA vehicles with secure phones in the back, shithole would be considered a term of endearment, and that includes females.

galaxy flyer
13th Jan 2018, 16:47
“Imagine that, n*****ers speaking French.”

Woodrow Wilson, US President on Haiti.

The more things change....remember the Progressive Movement was founded on principles like eugenics, inferiority of non-whites, paternalistic politics. Lincoln wanted to send freed blacks back to Africa. See Liberia, founded by the US, yes, a sh*thole, too.

Oh, Hilary and Bill were famous for “salty” language as was Nixon, LBJ, the list includes every famous person imaginable. But, when the speaker isn’t favored by the some, it’s a hanging offense.. I see.

GF

Turbine D
13th Jan 2018, 17:09
GF
“Imagine that, n*****ers speaking French.”

Woodrow Wilson, US President on Haiti.
Err, FAKE News! :=
Go back and check history once again, it was William Jennings Bryan...

SASless
13th Jan 2018, 17:24
LBJ to a Reporter.....You’re asking the leader of the Western world a chickenshit question like that?".

Krystal n chips
13th Jan 2018, 17:29
I would like to see a comparison of comments about those who supported "Brexit" and those who challenge the credibility of Global Warming theories to that of those that acknowledge some places on this Earth are in fact "Shit Holes".

Anyone ever been to South Los Angles, Liberty City in Miami, the slums of Washington DC, Lagos, Port Harcourt, Manila, and many other places in Africa, Mexico and Central and South America....yes....even Haiti.

Why is calling a place what it is deemed offensive when it is the "truth"?

Take a wander over in the Brexit Thread and read the comments for yourself and you will see to what I refer. Even the Scottish Independence Thread for that matter as there is much the same kind of posts.

The argument can be about how the places came to be wha they are and how to remedy that (if there is a remedy) but not as to the actual status of the place.

You may well wish to see a comparison, but, it wouldn't be difficult really to deduct those who support Brexit, and deny the reality of Global warming, all fall into that well defined JB right wing demographic.

Whilst it's true that we all use "less than complimentary terms " about locations and people we meet, there's just one teensy weensy difference.

Can you spot it, detective ?

Super VC-10
13th Jan 2018, 18:10
We've got shitholes in the UK too. There's Tunbridge Wells for a start...

fltlt
13th Jan 2018, 18:11
You may well wish to see a comparison, but, it wouldn't be difficult really to deduct those who support Brexit, and deny the reality of Global warming, all fall into that well defined JB right wing demographic.

Whilst it's true that we all use "less than complimentary terms " about locations and people we meet, there's just one teensy weensy difference.

Can you spot it, detective ?

The truth hurts.
Maybe, just maybe instead of all the political multi faced garbage platitudes they all use, if they actually spoke the truth, folks might just understand what, why, when, who and where.
How come anywhere in the world is a shithole, maybe the millions/billions in foreign aid these shitholes receive doesn’t go to clean up said shitholes, the vast majority goes into the foreign bank accounts of the leaders of these shitholes that are now complaining about being called shitholes.
Maybe it is time to call a spade a spade, the past 50 years or so doing what we have been doesn’t seem to have done anything to improve anything.

Krystal n chips
13th Jan 2018, 18:38
The truth hurts.
Maybe, just maybe instead of all the political multi faced garbage platitudes they all use, if they actually spoke the truth, folks might just understand what, why, when, who and where.
How come anywhere in the world is a shithole, maybe the millions/billions in foreign aid these shitholes receive doesn’t go to clean up said shitholes, the vast majority goes into the foreign bank accounts of the leaders of these shitholes that are now complaining about being called shitholes.
Maybe it is time to call a spade a spade, the past 50 years or so doing what we have been doesn’t seem to have done anything to improve anything.

Can we take it from your eloquent and expansive vocabulary you are a supporter of the utterance of this less than erudite diplomatic utterance then ?

fltlt
13th Jan 2018, 18:48
Can we take it from your eloquent and expansive vocabulary you are a supporter of the utterance of this less than erudite diplomatic utterance then ?

Not at all, however the truth still hurts, mostly those that have to live it, funny how nothing is ever said until there is an opportunity to score political points, on either side.
I’m sure the poor bastards living in those shithole countries appreciate our collective concerns about their corrupt leaders.
The “leaders” WE support and elect, politicians, I wouldn’t give you tuppence for, and that is from first hand experience with both parties.

Chronus
13th Jan 2018, 19:03
I`d have thought those of us sharing thoughts on this forum, who have had the displeasure of having to travel to some less desirable far and distant parts, would know a shit hole when they see one and would be well qualified to dispense with all the sophistication and eloquence of a double talking diplomat or politician and when asked where we have been,simply reply, to a shit hole. I must therefore admit I have been to such places and thought I`d rather kip in my own khazi at home and try and get rid of the evil malodorous stench that remain firmly lodged in my nostrils.

What I find similarly unpalatable is that "shit hole" is now banned as a racist remark. That stinks even worse than the very term itself.

PS Next time any of you are on the descent into one of these shit holes, at around 10000` or so, turn off the packs and take a deep breath. See whether you agree with Trump or not. In some places you don`t even need to bother with the packs, it works on or off.

Ancient Mariner
13th Jan 2018, 19:17
I've had the pleasure of visiting more of the world's shitholes than most.
Strangely they are all inhibited by real people, some of them even very good people, I think I've met more assholes at the extreme end of the scale.
As for the Trump's language? Pure entertainment.
Per

fltlt
13th Jan 2018, 19:17
I`d have thought those of us sharing thoughts on this forum, who have had the displeasure of having to travel to some less desirable far and distant parts, would know a shit hole when they see one and would be well qualified to dispense with all the sophistication and eloquence of a double talking diplomat or politician and when asked where we have been,simply reply, to a shit hole. I must therefore admit I have been to such places and thought I`d rather kip in my own khazi at home and try and get rid of the evil malodorous stench that remain firmly lodged in my nostrils.

What I find similarly unpalatable is that "shit hole" is now banned as a racist remark. That stinks even worse than the very term itself.

PS Next time any of you are on the descent into one of these shit holes, at around 10000` or so, turn off the packs and take a deep breath. See whether you agree with Trump or not. In some places you don`t even need to bother with the packs, it works on or off.

That’s the point, everyone goes about their daily life in civilized areas and doesn’t give a second thought to all the folks living the dream of clean water, sanitation, food, clothes, shelter, medical care, what we call a normal life, yet their countries ambassadors to the UN enjoy the good life, their leaders enjoy a fabulous life, all paid for by aid.
All this handwringing about a true comment, why? Why aren’t the politicians wringing their hands and wallets over the fact that these shitholes exist, and that they have done absolutely nothing to alleviate the suffering of the folks that have no choice but to exist there.
It certainly doesn’t need more money thrown at the leaders.

MungoP
13th Jan 2018, 19:48
Most of those objecting to this comment have never been south of the M4.. or maybe Spain. I suggest they arrange to spend a few years in the DRC or some other ********
of Africa. The people there should be enjoying the same standard of living as the Swiss. The country is awash with minerals.. They still think in tribal terms. The big boss is the chief and should have all the wealth. That's been told to me numerous times by people living in miserable poverty... but it's ok sometimes to rise up in a mob of a thousand or so and go on a 3 day killing, raping and thieving rampage.. just to let off a bit of steam. Trump is correct.

galaxy flyer
13th Jan 2018, 20:02
Whatever, I always heard it Wilson and based on Wilson’s bigotry, not impossible.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/11/20/9766896/woodrow-wilson-racist

Sevarg
13th Jan 2018, 20:18
Are we missing the point, it would seem that the "leader of the free world" has been found to be telling a bear faced lie. Is it fit that such a person to "lead" the world?

ORAC
13th Jan 2018, 20:22
Trump doesn't have a single atom of leadership in him Says the nobody of the elected president of the USA.....

SWBKCB
13th Jan 2018, 20:41
Is it not all about the context? Surely he knew who he was talking to and how they were going to react?

Isn't he smart enough to know what the impact of his comments was going to be (or is he smart enough to know exactly what impact he was going to have)?

Simplythebeast
13th Jan 2018, 20:48
3961
America...so not a shithole.

SASless
13th Jan 2018, 21:10
You just don't get it.....evidently you missed a few dozen posts....and have never been to East St. Louis....for one location in the USA.:ugh:

packapoo
13th Jan 2018, 21:12
We've got shitholes in the UK too. There's Tunbridge Wells for a start...

Yuo mean there's more then one....?
Morecombe was bad enough ;)

Ascend Charlie
13th Jan 2018, 21:45
It's not the fact that he said it, it is the way that it was DENIED afterwards, and his bum-suckers said they didn't hear anything.

421dog
13th Jan 2018, 21:47
You just don't get it.....evidently you missed a few dozen posts....and have never been to East St. Louis....for one location in the USA

Oh come on, KCPS is a pretty nice little airport...(just don't go outside the fence)

Revnetwork
13th Jan 2018, 21:48
Proud to Live in a Nation of Holers. An opinion I support.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/opinion/proud-nation-of-holers.html

andytug
13th Jan 2018, 21:53
He's a typical CEO, create disruption, disruption is good for profit. Stability makes no money (someone should perhaps tell Teresa May). Also like Reagan he's a front for the real movers and shakers who backed him, while the world's attention is on him they can do what they want with impunity...

NutLoose
13th Jan 2018, 21:59
Lots of American cities are shitholes, if God was going to give the World an enema, he'd stick the tube in Detroit.

What gets me is their holier than thou attitude to immigration when they are all a bunch of immigrants, hell even Trumps wife is an import, and as for Trump himself

http://www.ibtimes.com/trump-or-drumpf-whats-name-280579

fltlt
13th Jan 2018, 22:08
Who cares what we all were/are, as long as everybody followed the rules, fine.

Hussar 54
13th Jan 2018, 22:14
He's only gone and said what many of us think.

Just that in 2018 you're not supposed to say what you think or believe as it is bound to offend at least someone and then there's an inevitable backlash. If it isn't considered racist, then it'll be xenophobic : if it isn't mysogenist, then it's chauvenist ; if it isn't homophobic, then it's ' something else-ist ' ; etc, etc, etc.

Those of us who've spent time in Africa or made our living in Africa ( over 20 years and counting for me ) understand where he's coming from, but wouldn't dare say it in public these days.

Does that make me racist ? Obviously, in the eyes of many then the answer is yes...Although I genuinely don't believe that I am, and can only plead that my opinion has been formed based on reality and personal experience, not perception or prejudice.

But amongst my fellow travellers, then the answer is no - I'm simply a realist.

andytug
13th Jan 2018, 22:20
Fine, then presumably he won't mind if other world leaders are similarly plain speaking about his country.....
Somehow I doubt it.

meadowrun
13th Jan 2018, 22:36
he won't mind if other world leaders are similarly plain speaking about his country.....


You really think they are not?
Got to remember that this was a private meeting, not an address to the nation.

Octane
13th Jan 2018, 22:45
America (among others) didn't have a problem "importing" people from s#%thole countries in the past...

BigEndBob
13th Jan 2018, 22:53
America (among others) didn't have a problem "importing" people from s#%thole countries in the past...

Having problems now though..

galaxy flyer
13th Jan 2018, 23:09
America (among others) didn't have a problem "importing" people from s#%thole countries in the past...

They were very different times. The Homestead Act promised land to farmers; that land is gone. Industrial labor was needed in a rapidly growing economy, not so much as manufacturing is a declining portion of the economy. Even then, there was an organized immigration process, famously at Ellis Island.

GF

meadowrun
14th Jan 2018, 00:30
...meanwhile deep in ffrench territory concern rides high.....


"The French baguette should be listed as a Unesco cultural treasure, says France's President Emmanuel Macron.
"The baguette is the envy of the whole world," he said."

jack11111
14th Jan 2018, 00:59
It's a sign of maturity not to say every thought that crosses one's mind.

Oh, there's the problem!

CoodaShooda
14th Jan 2018, 01:18
It's not the fact that he said it, it is the way that it was DENIED afterwards, and his bum-suckers said they didn't hear anything.

Where is the proof that it was said?

From what I understand, the claim is from one person who belongs to a group that is vehemently opposed to Trump and actively seeks to remove him from office. Everyone else present denies the claim. It is unlikely a court would move to convict in such a situation.

I have just wasted five minutes reading a "news" report alleging Trump had a dalliance with America's leading porn star shortly after he wed his current wife. Said porn star then was allegedly paid $130,000 in hush money during the election campaign.

The lengthy report stated the claim was denied on the record by Trump, his lawyer who allegedly paid the hush money and the lady concerned. But they can apparently be disregarded as the claim was being made by anonymous persons "close to the matter" and therefore must be worth reporting as fact.

In my past life as a spin doctor, I quickly learned the truth to the old saying "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see".

Never has it been more relevant than in the current environment of (anti)social media and partisan MSM.

megan
14th Jan 2018, 01:34
Even in the worlds most liveable city there are those doing their best to make it otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/16/melbourne-worlds-most-liveable-city-for-seventh-year-running

We have an issue with Sudanese gangs ? here?s how we can tackle it (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/we-have-an-issue-with-sudanese-gangs-here-s-how-we-can-tackle-it-20171230-p4yy4p.html)