First of the Qantas branded A320s

[1a sound asleep]

Two Jetstar A320 going to Qantas via Qantaslink soon. Will first head to perth for a start with Network. Rumor is they will slowly make their way into the system. Qantaslink could easily operate A320s for QF at far less cost than 737s :(


THIS LINK

[Rated De]

Of course they will..

This year's stalking horse?
Of course certified agreements will be up for negotiation!

So wash rinse and repeat!

Of course all this IR dribble needs unlimited supply of pilots...

And that paradigm has changed.

[Karunch]

Offer TP pilots a shiny new jet, of course they'll do it for less than the incumbents. That lesson unfortunately needs to be re-learnt every few years.

Ironically, it has a negative effect on the pilot supply problem the lower end operators have (but that they won't acknowledge they have).

[Keg]

Network are struggling to get crew as it is. I’m not sure an A320 on similarly crap $$$ is going to fix that issue.

[PoppaJo]

Shiny new Jets? VH-JQL/X?

These two $hitboxes will certainly not be missed. Enjoy the daily breakdowns folks.

[Capn Bloggs]

The FRV will also become the ARV! :)

[neville_nobody]

Of course all this IR dribble needs unlimited supply of pilots...

Open recruitment up to the world and see how limited your supply of pilots is then....
No coincidence that 457 Visas are back.

If any australian jet airline can't find crew, they'll just cry poor to the government and open recruitment up to the world. They will be innundated with type rated experienced applications.

[GA Driver]

Shiny new Jets? VH-JQL/X?

These two $hitboxes will certainly not be missed. Enjoy the daily breakdowns folks.

If only it WAS those sh!tboxes :(

[Rated De]

No coincidence that 457 Visas are back.

Of course it is no coincidence! The airlines know supply is limited, even in Australia. The RAAF has experienced two years where applications for aircrew ran at less than 40% of historical norms. Whether that is a result of crappy foreign policy or supply is a mute point! :ok:

However,



How many JQ NZ applications?
How many Jetconnect applications?
How many applications do Network actually get?
How is Qantaslink going application wise?
How about Rex?
What about the top end GA operators?
How about the RFDS?

It pays to have connections involved in recruiting both inside and outside Australia. In almost all of the examples I cite, there are but a handful of applications meeting the criteria as it is.



Whilst I accept that you may well be fiercely patriotic and suffered the last thirty years in unlimited supply, I did too, but with global supply being limited, the result to clear the market will be an increase in terms and conditions.


I certainly accept Neville, that the unions were asleep at the wheel with the 457 issue. If they claim they have a lobby presence in Canberra, then they are speaking to the wrong people, but the reality is that outside Australia the shortage is real, it is structural. Airlines outside Australia have recognised securing supply is very important, but other than weasel words form airline management I would expect an accelerated Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt campaign.


As CNN reported in July


Retirements at U.S. airlines will start to rise precipitously starting in 2021as the current crop of pilots turns 65, the mandated age of retirement. More than 42% of active U.S. airline pilots at the biggest carriers will retire over the next 10 years, about 22,000, according to a recent report by Cowen & Company.

[airdualbleedfault]

A red tail, 160 odd seater being operated by a QF subsidiary, move along nothing to see here:eek:
How's AIPA going with the ghost Seniority numbers? Oops, no Seniority in Notwork, so I guess that's out of the question
:{
My bet is no QF 737 base in Perth within 5 years, any takers?

[wheels_down]

If you want Sh!tboxes then give them VWY and Z. Should have been coke cans years ago.

[TineeTim]

A red tail, 160 odd seater being operated by a QF subsidiary, move along nothing to see here:eek:
How's AIPA going with the ghost Seniority numbers? Oops, no Seniority in Notwork, so I guess that's out of the question
:{
My bet is no QF 737 base in Perth within 5 years, any takers?

You’re on. Name the amount, I’ll take it. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to close the base?

[DirectAnywhere]

No idea, but a lot less than it cost to ground the airline for 3 days. This lot will go to any lengths to further their industrial agenda.

[airdualbleedfault]

Tiny, do you have any idea how much cheaper the A320, under Network, will be to operate? Let's start with close to 200k per year, per crew. On reflection, they may not close the base, but I don't think they'll be doing any WA flying

[The Green Goblin]

I wouldn’t be too worried. Those old J birds can’t even fly RNP. Not to mention the weather radar is particularly unhelpful during the day. They will never be able to justify putting new jets in network to fly intra WA routes and FIFO. It’ll be a retirement stopover for older depreciated jets that have plenty of life left in them, but are not as reliable anymore with the high utilisation demands of a major RPT operator.

Typical that the Js will go after just being repainted too :)

I’d be more worried if I were a particular contractor. I’d be swagging it outside the HR donga waiting for an interview at network. If that’s your thing.

It’s obvious network will get more than 2 bigger birds. However they’ll be doing what the fokkers are doing now. Providing growth for clients with a more capable jet.

[Maggie Island]

You’re on. Name the amount, I’ll take it. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to close the base?

My take is you won’t see any JQs flying to this side of the country! (Aside from the Bali flights perhaps:}) T4 has fewer scheduled services than NTL!

[morno]

Geez you’re all a paranoid bunch aren’t you. No one is stealing your jobs. The last impression I got was they wanted to improve QF, not make it worse.

And don’t start with “but JQ stole our jobs”, there was a hole in the market and Qantas filled it with JQ quite successfully.

morno

[das Uber Soldat]

If you want Sh!tboxes then give them VWY and Z. Should have been coke cans years ago.
Amen brother.

[Angle of Attack]

I think a lot of people are being a bit paranoid but it’s the potential that is the worrying part. But I can guarantee this will be a complete farce, it won’t work and with the current crew shortage it will fail even worse. Myself I’ll have the popcorn at the ready to view a cobham 717 disaster version 2 take place!

[Aussie Fo]

So what’s the plan. Replace the F100 with A320? Or keep the F100 as well.

It’s never really made sense to have 717 and F100.

And someone must have seen the money being offered to do the gig

[Rated De]

it won’t work and with the current crew shortage it will fail even worse.Speaking to a connection, few airlines are prepared to accept the shortage is demographic and structural: The model they ascribe to, which has held for a few decades, is that supply of pilots is unlimited. Hence the HR/IR model is predicated that a continued downwards pressure can be exerted on labour cost.

It is highly likely that they have not even considered a real crew shortage and if they have, they ignore it as pilots enmasse are yet to understand the structural nature of the shortage. Perhaps they are focused on using it as leverage against pilots in the 'group' in general. Perhaps crewing it is secondary.

They spare no expense to save money...Particularly when Clifford on down see labour not as an asset, but an impediment. Funny when airlines are the biggest team sport there is...

[Keg]

And someone must have seen the money being offered to do the gig

Network has a few captains that had previous airbus experiences (Asian mainly) so suspect that would go part of the way. May be a few ‘mates of mates’ willing to come home for the money being offered. Not sure they’ll find enough to crew an expanded fleet.

[SpyderPig]

They will struggle to crew it with the pay they are offering. Last I heard it went from “there will be a pay increase for the 320” to now management walking around the crew room asking who is willing to fly it for the same money as they currently getting on the F100 because there will be no pay increase.

So now they can cry poor and say “we can’t get crew for it! Pilot shortage! We need expats to come save the day!”

Great for the bottom line as you’ve got import crew flying A320s around on F100 money and the race to the bottom continues....🤢

[hotnhigh]

Geez you’re all a paranoid bunch aren’t you. No one is stealing your jobs. The last impression I got was they wanted to improve QF, not make it worse.

morno

It comes down to a matter of trust. I’m all up for a bunch that just took $350 mil out of the kitty for their own personal endeavours to make Qantas great again.....:ugh:

And now that’s complete, the share price is mysteriously going south, Clifford is banging onto the government about foreign investment, captain upgrades at qantas are soon to be beyond 20 years, and mr Joyce continues to be unable to order a single jet for Qf, so nothing has changed there during his tenure as CEO.

Tough gig running an airline. TRUST ME.

[cavemanzk]

With the ZK-*** 738s becoming VH-***'s whats the chance we will see QLink A320's on the Tasman down the track with contracted crew from JetConnect.

[morno]

captain upgrades at qantas are soon to be beyond 20 years

You’re at an airline that guys make entire careers out of. Why does 20 years surprise you?

[havick]

They will struggle to crew it with the pay they are offering. Last I heard it went from “there will be a pay increase for the 320” to now management walking around the crew room asking who is willing to fly it for the same money as they currently getting on the F100 because there will be no pay increase.

So now they can cry poor and say “we can’t get crew for it! Pilot shortage! We need expats to come save the day!”

Great for the bottom line as you’ve got import crew flying A320s around on F100 money and the race to the bottom continues....🤢

Honestly who would bother coming to Australia with the cash on offer and opportunities elsewhere around the world?

[-41]

Honestly who would bother coming to Australia with the cash on offer and opportunities elsewhere around the world?

Life is good in Aus.

Thats why!

[havick]

Life is good in Aus.

Thats why!

That all depends on one’s point of view.

I honestly don’t think you’re going to get as many expat takers given what is on offer elsewhere in the world.

[kimbobimbo]

They will struggle to crew it with the pay they are offering. Last I heard it went from “there will be a pay increase for the 320” to now management walking around the crew room asking who is willing to fly it for the same money as they currently getting on the F100 because there will be no pay increase.

So now they can cry poor and say “we can’t get crew for it! Pilot shortage! We need expats to come save the day!”

Great for the bottom line as you’ve got import crew flying A320s around on F100 money and the race to the bottom continues....🤢

Ah, no. Unfortunately no announcement as yet on specific pay for the A320. This is incredible since the type is now confirmed for an April start!

Which managers are saying this? There are those who enjoy stirring up **** but who are not involved in pay related matters so I wouldn’t listen to them. Company is currently negotiating pay. Network has always paid roughly the market rate at least for base pay. It’s the extras that are missing. Hopefully in this case the same will apply at a minimum.

[Gnadenburg]

Life is good in Aus.

Thats why!


Why are Australians so damned fat now?

Sorry, can't be bluffed on the lifestyle thing. I have done both. Well paid domestic airline pilot and well paid expat. I know the attractions of the Australian lifestyle and it needs to be built around a good job and no ridiculous housing debt.

[Transition Layer]

Given that the current Network Chief Pilot has operated the 320 under the JQ Award in the past, I would have thought that would be a good starting point for Network. Anything less and he is taking the piss out of the troops.

[GA Driver]

Given that the current Network Chief Pilot has operated the 320 under the JQ Award in the past, I would have thought that would be a good starting point for Network. Anything less and he is taking the piss out of the troops.

Agreed, but the pay generally isn’t up to the CP is it? They get told this is the rate, go forth and inform!

[Rated De]

Agreed, but the pay generally isn’t up to the CP is it? They get told this is the rate, go forth and inform!

To IR all this is predicated on unlimited supply, they have control and to sit in the corner office means you surrender control of email, message. You tell the story they want told.

[-41]

That all depends on one’s point of view.

I honestly don’t think you’re going to get as many expat takers given what is on offer elsewhere in the world.

Tru

However - Was referring to many Aus expats returning home. Of which Nwk has many😉

[Transition Layer]

Agreed, but the pay generally isn’t up to the CP is it? They get told this is the rate, go forth and inform!

Yep spot on...must be hard to get the backing of the troops though selling that kind of message!

[volare_737]

I guess new joiner Captains would have to start on the F100 and no way one could get on to the 320 as a DEC.

[The Green Goblin]

Volare,

There’s no seniority at network. The 320s will become toys for the boys.

[volare_737]

Thanks Goblin. So I guess that means NO !!!

[airdualbleedfault]

If you have previous A320 check and training Volare, that would be a definite maybe

[TBM-Legend]

Cancel Australia Day let's have whinging day....!

[kimbobimbo]

If you have previous A320 check and training Volare, that would be a definite maybe

Not really, check and training is coming from the Qantas group initially then in house after that. Already been announced.

As for DEC A320 drivers more generally, it’s pretty unlikely early on as there is plenty of experience in house currently. Current drivers would NOT hang around if this was to happen, longer term who knows?

[volare_737]

Thanks guys. Not looking short term anyway, but a few years down the line it could be a good job.

[airdualbleedfault]

That's funny Volare, I believe they just hired a guy with A320 C and T experience and hasn't worked for QF for years.
Not sure how good a job it will be, shaping up as lowest paid A320 drivers in Australia

[kimbobimbo]

One guy? It’s a jobs bonanza!