EI Carvair operations at MAN

[MARK9263]

When Aer Lingus operated the Carvair between MAN-DUB in the 1960s, I understood it was purely for mail/freight operations.

I was to curious to know if they also carried cars on the route?

Many thanks
Mark

[ATL-98]

Hi Mark

I believe the Aer Lingus Carvair car ferry routes were DUB to Liverpool, Bristol & Cherbourg plus Cork to Bristol. Night mail flights took place between
MAN & DUB, with MAN also featuring on the airline's cargo services flown previously by DC-3s. Maybe cars were sometimes carried as freight.

ATL-98 :ok:

[rolling20]

Oh to hear the sound of those 4 twin wasps at night again...

[treadigraph]

Oh to hear the sound of those 4 twin wasps at night again...

On a quiet still night... magical to hear radials gently rumbling into the distance.

[Planespeaking]

On a quiet still night... magical to hear radials gently rumbling into the distance.

I worked for BUAF at SEN in the 60s and was lucky enough to fly in Carvairs when crew training and on air tests.
20,000 rivets in loose formation!!

[barry lloyd]

The Carvair required a specialised piece of equipment known as a hi-lo (basically a scissor-lift platform), to lift the cars up to the level of the cabin floor. I'm not sure whether there was one at Manchester. I do recall the occasional new car being shipped out on the Car Ferry from Liverpool, usually a Roller or a Bentley from Crewe.

[rolling20]

On a quiet still night... magical to hear radials gently rumbling into the distance.

One dark night my mother was driving me home from some child event, when the car was lit up like daylight as we went past the old threshold of Southends 06. You could hear the popping and crackling, but not each other screaming, as the beast flew over us, wheels inches from the car roof. Luckily she regained her composure and we made it home in one piece. Many times I have landed on that same runway and I still vividly remember that night.

[SilverCityKid]

I worked in the Cargo Section of Manchester Airport Agencies (the forerunner of Servisair) during the period in question and we were the handling agents for Aer Lingus.
There was a Carvair to Dublin almost every night of the week but I have no recollection of them carrying cars from MAN.
The load was usually mixed cargo which was assembled on small wooden pallets, up to 1000 kgs each, and placed on a metal slave pallet which was then lifted up to the aircraft nose by a 6000lb Conveyancer forklift truck owned and operated by Manchester Airport.
I think that the mail for Dublin was normally "Bulk-Loaded" (ie not on pallets) onto F27 or Viscount 800's, depending on how heavy the load was.
I seem to remember that the Carvairs had a payload of 7000 to 8000 kgs.

[SilverCityKid]

I forgot to say thet the Carvair pallets were not standard wooden pallets but crude sheets of 1/2" thick plywood with steel rings round the perimeter.

When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.

Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.

[MARK9263]

I forgot to say thet the Carvair pallets were not standard wooden pallets but crude sheets of 1/2" thick plywood with steel rings round the perimeter.

When BEA started operating Argosy 100s & 200s the pallets were "stressed" all aluminium and the regular joke was that once the empty pallets and Cargo Documents had been loaded onto the aircraft there was no payload left for the cargo.

Shortly afterwards BOAC were operating Boeing 707 freighters with "Brownline" Pallets which were 125" x 108" and made from some type of composite material with aluminim edges, you could load 3500kgs onto each pallet, greater that the total payload of a DC3 freighter.
The Boeing 727 & 737 used the same "Brownline" pallets and KLM & Swissairs DC 9 freighters also had the same type of pallets but 108" x 108" to fit into the narrower fuselage.

Superb information, many thanks...

[ZeBedie]

I think Aer Lingus Carvairs were regular visitors to BHX as well.

[SilverCityKid]

Correction to my previous posts.

The correct pallet sizes are/were:

Boeing 707 / 727 / 737 = 125" x 88"

Douglas DC-9 = 108" x 88"

Apologies, but it was over 50 years ago!

[barry lloyd]

I think Aer Lingus Carvairs were regular visitors to BHX as well.

Yes they were.There was a cargo flight which operated most Wednesdays DUB-LPL-BHX-DUB

[Musket90]

They also operated to Glasgow on Saturdays in the 60's. Don't know if they carried cars.

[WHBM]

The Aer Lingus Carvairs came in 1963-4, and were sold in early 1968.

Here are the cargo schedules for 1965, including several recollected above


http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ei/ei65/ei65-16.jpg

and for 1966, quite a bit different

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ei/ei66/ei66-16.jpg

Unfortunately, although they put the cargo schedules in their timetable, they didn't put the car services in.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Didn't Carvairs continue to operate at MAN after 1968 by another operator after Aer LIngus sold them?

Seem to remember them at Southend in the '70s as well.

[treadigraph]

BAF at Southend, SSD!

Sadly I can only recall seeing Carvairs airborne a couple of times, one at low level over Purley (deep in Injun territory!) probably squeezing between the Gatwick and Heathrow zones and heading toward Biggin Hill and presumably Southend. The other arrived at Gatwick one afternoon and made a very nice change from 1-11s and the other regulars.

[MARK9263]

Carvairs were seen at MAN (British Air Ferries) right up until the final one in January 1979. (G-ASDC)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Ah yes, BAF. I used to work for Burroughs (remember them?) in the 1970s and spent periods at their Southend training centre on various courses. I remember the Carvairs climbing out over the town. Big radial piston engined aeroplanes were not so rare back then so I paid them far less attention than I would now.

[WHBM]

I used to work for Burroughs (remember them?) in the 1970s and spent periods at their Southend training centre on various courses. I remember the Carvairs climbing out over the town. Big radial piston engined aeroplanes were not so rare back then so I paid them far less attention than I would now.
Well I worked there as well. They generally used the Airport Hotel (nowadays called the Skylark but still all the same buildings), not at all well suited for the terminal, being beyond walking distance, but backing right onto the airfield at the west end, where Carvair G-AOFW sat unused through the whole period of 1979-81 that I was a regular there. It was right in front when you opened the curtains each morning. There were no fences or anything, we quite regularly just walked over the grass to look at anything interesting there.

There were an astounding range of high jinks which those of us on the graduate trainee programme got up to, something for another time though ...

G-AOFW Described here

G-AOFW | Southend Airport Aviation Database (http://saadonline.uk/archives/393)

[barry lloyd]

Thanks for the timetables, WHBM. It certainly stirred a few brain cells. I'm just glad they didn't normally use them on the Saturday night newspaper lift from LPL!