Just love the Fatigue BS on iLearn

[Scoreboard]

What a load of crap that was.....like move the deck chairs, you cover your rest, we told what to do its not our fault we do :mad: rosters. And the CAD doesnt even sit on this as the regulator....

[mngmt mole]

Just don't bother doing the package.

[ACMS]

Pass the quiz at the start then only have to do the exam at the end.

1 1/2 hours wasted max.

Google is your friend :ok:

[Oasis]

You mean there is a vol8?

[BlunderBus]

Classic crap! We are the ones who suffer cumulative fatigue and now have to do a course to see why?
It’s obvious .. imbecilic rostering and last minute calls and paxing all
Over the planet to plug the holes!duh

[Krone]

Classic crap! We are the ones who suffer cumulative fatigue duh

Then you are operating unfit and you are legally required to Report this to the operator and file an ASR-F .
Cant believe guys still bitch about something the law supports you on

From the AIP:

55. Fatigue of Crew - responsibilities of crew
(1) A person shall not act as a member of the crew of an aircraft to which this article applies if he knows or suspects that he is suffering from, or, having regard to the circumstances of the flight to be undertaken, is likely to suffer from, such fatigue as may endanger the safety of the aircraft or its occupants.

[Lions Gate]

Krone. You are correct, but a bit difficult to implement when nearly the whole of the Freighter fleet operates under that condition, and the company and regulator don't seem too concerned (until the inevitable accident).

[1200firm]

In the meantime CMP has brought us the BOM turnaround. 15.15 scheduled FDP.

[betpump5]

What!

But the company said the CMP will bring benefits for the pilots as well as the company.
And the AOA even championed it.

Are you insinuating that the company lied and the AOA fell for it?

[kahaha]

In the meantime CMP has brought us the BOM turnaround. 15.15 scheduled FDP.

Cathay Dragon to operate BLR return during the summer schedule . No onboard rest facility, but a leg stretch pilot will be rostered.

Good to hear this will bring yet more O days onto the roster keeping G days to a min.

[BlunderBus]

Hi Krone,
Actually I was referring to that long list in their own manuals on avoiding fatigue. For example avoiding 18-30 hours outport layover. It’s a bit hard to swallow their online fatigue course when they actually define the things that cause fatigue in crews and then roster so as to break virtually all of them .... it’s all lip service.

[BlunderBus]

In addition their habit of rostering a single reserve day before a duty followed by two ‘o’ days after... tell me how that supports a stable roster?

[cxorcist]

Actions, not words...

[GKOC41]

Blunderbus

For example avoiding 18-30 hours outport layover.

Not sure if your aware of the history on 18-30hr rest periods. It was from the good old days when UK Tour operators flew to USA on day / night transitions. This was in the day of Mickey Mouse and Gospel TV in the middle of the night. You could argue therefore that they have been the norm since 1980's.
There is however plenty of science that for example a 18-30hr rest period on a Night / Day transition is just the right thing (2 sleep chances) The problem crews face more than any other "shift" worker is no one trip is the same and in most cases Airlines don't advise their crews the best sleeping patterns for individual trips, they just mandate some fatigue training and have some fatigue software bolted onto their scheduling system which scores the trips (cumulative fatigue is more difficult). Very few Airlines collect their own data normally cost or cynical pilots getting in the way.
I recently flew a ULR from the Middle East to DFW day time flight - I found it strange that after the first meal service the CC in-flight rest commenced - they would have been in wide awake club then for sure.
Some of the crew did the right thing (stay on local time) but that's easier said than done (although now rather than Mickey Mouse and Gospel channel there is much more choice on an ipad)
As for me (one of those desk jockeys that Pilots berate) I was completely banjacked on arrival and banjacked when i came back.
#Respect

[BlunderBus]

Yapping about fatigue programs is fine but bears absolutely no resemblance to physical, accumulative and avoidable fatigue endured by active crews in this airline. It can easily be managed with effective rostering. They just don’t give a crap

[sodapop]

@GKOC41

Pray tell how 18-30 hr rest affords 2 rest periods on or off crew body clocks. Most humans have one rest period and one (WOCL) in a 24-hr period. Therefore, all Fatigue Studies I’ve read, to include the ICAO version, advise that 18-30 hr rest periods should be avoided as it is near physically impossible to get two full rest periods. I can back this up from personal empirical data.

As to Cabin Crew taking rest outside their body-clock WOCL, crews must decide when to divide rest between 2 groups in shifts. Same holds for Cockpit Crew. Many ME carriers mandate when crew will take rest and publish these periods on rosters. In the real world, some crew inevitably get poor rest, especially when they are all based in the same location.

Standing by for your ‘plenty of science’ response.

Cheers,
Soda

[controlledrest]

We let the :mad: get away with it.

If the rostered pattern is too fatiguing, DON'T DO IT. Sorry, Unfit due fatigue. ASR-F. If they say 'but it is legal' tell them it isn't legal, that you will be unable to safely complete the duty. Follow OPS-A, do the paper work. There is nothing they can do, except change the patterns.

If you are on reserve and get called for a duty that you are not fit for, again, DON'T DO IT.

For too long we have enabled crap patterns. We can fix this. Works for the Cabin Crew.