what does this badge mean [Archive]

Tankertrashnav

8th Jan 2018, 10:08

Yes HH but it's a mine of info for someone like me who used to deal in military badges and who still finds them very interesting. A lot of new stuff there which doesn't appear in my older reference books. The OP refers to a metal badge above the sergeant's chevrons which doesn't tie in with the ones illustrated for the RAuxAF in the above ref, which appear to be metal for officers and cloth for NCOs/ORs

MAINJAFAD

8th Jan 2018, 11:10

36 pages on Badges!!!

maybe some people should be redeployed a bit closer to the real world????

Maybe somebody should look at what the Navy and Army books look like before taking the P!ss. That AP has been around for at least 22 years and most of the Badges in it since the mid 1960s or much earlier.

Old-Duffer

8th Jan 2018, 12:35

The majority of RAFVR(T) personnel are now transferred to a new grouping: RAF Air Cadets (RAFAC).

Officers and non-commissioned personnel wear the same rank badges but the officers gilt VRT and the NCOs and WOs gilt ATC have both been replaced by RAFAC in gilt for No1 and No5 uniforms and by embroidered: RAF Air Cadets below the rank identity on most other uniforms.

It's all part of the new Cadet Forces Commission and the greater alignment between officers and non commissioned personnel.

Whilst not questioning the need for a cadet forces commission, the administration of the whole process has been a classic example of a complete cock up. Most personnel might have received the bare minimum of rank badges to the new style but the gilt pins are nowhere to be seen. The implementation of the change over was oft delayed with an excuse that this is the first new commission for a hundred years which shows just how little the authorities know about RAF history and their ignorance of the other new commissions introduced.

Old Duffer

Heathrow Harry

8th Jan 2018, 13:31

TBH I can think of worse from other arms of the Govt. - the Plain English Society has some real specials

I'm sort of torn between the idea we should get rid of people who have little else to do and , on the other hand, its really a form of care in the community and at least they are unlikely to do anyone serious harm cranking out this sort of thing.............

Danny42C

8th Jan 2018, 16:06

When I was a regular Adj to a R.Aux. A. F. unit 1951-54, our officers had a brass "A" on the lapel; the airmen/airwomen a cloth "A" just below the eagle at the top of the sleeve.

roving

8th Jan 2018, 17:04

https://s18.postimg.org/l9nc2phyh/Screen_Shot_2018-01-08_at_20.03.00.png

Melchett01

8th Jan 2018, 17:29

36 pages on Badges!!!

maybe some people should be redeployed a bit closer to the real world????

And I suspect that even despite this help there are people out there wearing the ‘wrong’ Parachutist badge.

downsizer

8th Jan 2018, 17:44

And I suspect that even despite this help there are people out there wearing the ‘wrong’ Parachutist badge.

I wear them all, just to be on the safe side. :\

Hot 'n' High

8th Jan 2018, 20:39

I absolutely love page 24 ..... Mountain Rescue (blimey, v risky job that!), Bomb Disposal (aghhh, not for H 'n' H such death-defying stuff – the land of real heroes that!), Marksman (silent assassins trained to kill on the first shot!!!!!) ..... then …. on the same page ….. "Voluntary Bandsman"!!! Now, I was one of 'em for 30 years! Never realised that put me in the same league as the first 3!!!!!! Mind you, the way I played Clarinet then Cornet, I certainly "assassinated" a few good tunes in my “career” as a Volunteer Bandy!!!!!!!! :p

brokenlink

8th Jan 2018, 22:21

Old Duffer, the new gilt RAFAC badges are not exactly of the highest quality.

Tankertrashnav

8th Jan 2018, 23:01

Danny - if the list that Daf Hucker has posted a link to is still current, that situation is still the case (officer metal on collar, NCO cloth on sleeve). That is why I wonder what the metal A above the sergeant's chevrons that the OP talks about signifies.

To all those disparaging this document - I made a living out of flogging this sort of stuff for 30 years or so, so don't knock it. Very useful! The army ones are fascinating, and the navy seems to invent a whole new set of trades every couple of years or so, each with its own particular sleeve badge - runs into hundreds.

brokenlink - there is a continuous downward trend in the quality of badges etc. I collect military buttons and I have a complete set of all 109 pre-1881 buttons from the old numbered regiments of foot. All are of superb quality and some are works of art. No comparison with modern anodised junk.

teeteringhead

9th Jan 2018, 13:52

Whilst not questioning the need for a cadet forces commission, the administration of the whole process has been a classic example of a complete cock up. An administrative cock-up in the Air Cadet Organisation O-D?

You surprise and shock me ......... ;)

The Oberon

9th Jan 2018, 14:10

I collect military buttons and I have a complete set of all 109 pre-1881 buttons from the old numbered regiments of foot. All are of superb quality and some are works of art. No comparison with modern anodised junk.[/QUOTE]

You lucky, lucky b*****d, I have never even seen all those buttons, your collection must be unique.

Dougie M

9th Jan 2018, 14:30

TTN.
Numbered buttons of all Regiments of Foot. Very envious. Beats RAuxAF "A"s. Their pins keep falling off. That would never have done with the 24th at Rorkes Drift!

LoeyDaFrog

9th Jan 2018, 14:59

It shows that said Sgt is a member of the RAuxAF, as in A for Auxiliary. Dress regs were changed a while back removing the need to wear the A on all forms of uniform (technically, you had to have an A on 'normal' rank slides, as well as collar dogs on No1s and No5s). It's all part of the 'whole force concept' don'tchaknow...

I know plenty of us 'Oggies' who are quite proud of our heritage and status and who routinely 'forget' to take them off.

Wensleydale

9th Jan 2018, 15:03

That would never have done with the 24th at Rorkes Drift!

Interestingly, the majority of the 24th Regiment of foot who fought in the Zulu Wars came from Warwickshire. The Regiment had moved from Warwick into barracks at Brecon only a year or so before they shipped out to South Africa. Only about 10% of the troops were Welsh. They became the "South Wales Borderers" in the 1881 re-organisation. The Regimental March was "The Warwickshire Lad", and they certainly would not have sung "Men of Harlech" during the battle of Rorkes Drift.

Dougie M

9th Jan 2018, 19:12

Wensleydale.
With respect, perhaps I should have quoted my own regiment :the 3rd East Anglian Regt (Bedfordshire Hertfordshire and Essex _The Pompadours_ 16th/44th of Foot whose quick march was La Mandolinata or "souvenirs from Rome" ) The metal "A"s for RAuxAf officers uniforms still lost their pins and airmen sewed their cloth ones on during the 6 years that I was an Auggie.

langleybaston

9th Jan 2018, 21:01

Interestingly, the majority of the 24th Regiment of foot who fought in the Zulu Wars came from Warwickshire. The Regiment had moved from Warwick into barracks at Brecon only a year or so before they shipped out to South Africa. Only about 10% of the troops were Welsh. They became the "South Wales Borderers" in the 1881 re-organisation. The Regimental March was "The Warwickshire Lad", and they certainly would not have sung "Men of Harlech" during the battle of Rorkes Drift.

And there again they might have sung "Balls to Mr Banglestein"!

Genstabler

9th Jan 2018, 21:55

Dougie M. All the fours mate! Joined the Pompadours in 64 in Berlin!

Rosevidney1

9th Jan 2018, 22:33

Wensleydale: What a spoilsport you are!! Now I can mention that the 2 officers could not have been using Webley Mk 6 .455" revolvers either - as they hadn't been invented then!!!:8

Tankertrashnav

9th Jan 2018, 23:28

You lucky, lucky b*****d, I have never even seen all those buttons, your collection must be unique.

Well it took me 20 years to get them all - started when I found an "8th" button in a job lot I bought. Actually there is always a certain sadness in completing a collection - for the true collector, as opposed to investor, the fun is in the finding, not owning. Still, I'm now trying to get all the OTC buttons and I'm pretty sure that collection will still be incomplete when I shuffle off.

Not unique, by the way, I have seen a few complete sets come up for auction over the years.

Old-Duffer

10th Jan 2018, 05:47

TTN,

Why not sew them all on a jacket, adopt a cockney accent and you could pretend to be a Pearly King (certainly not a Pearly Queen - of course!!!!!!!).

You could also collect Army stable belts.

O-D

The Oberon

10th Jan 2018, 05:48

Wensleydale: What a spoilsport you are!! Now I can mention that the 2 officers could not have been using Webley Mk 6 .455" revolvers either - as they hadn't been invented then!!!:8

.... and despite the excellent part played by Nigel Green, Colour Sgt. Bourne was only 23 at the time of Rorke's Drift.:E

Tankertrashnav

10th Jan 2018, 10:48

Never mind Baker and Caine, Nigel Green has always been the star of Zulu in my mind. Here he is delivering one of the best lines in British film history

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB739GB739&ei=YPxVWtmEOuWEgAaBwrawAw&q=zulu+because+we%27re+here+lad&oq=because+we%27re+here+lad+zulu&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1.12535.17854.0.19960.9.8.0.1.1.0.324.1262.0j 7j0j1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.1263...0j33i22i29i30k1.0.fRRafj74JL0

Old Duffer - now there's a thought, but I may just leave the pre 1881 buttons in their frame and use up some of the hundreds of more run of the mill buttons I have in boxes cluttering up my office.

goudie

10th Jan 2018, 11:45

TTN you being a ’buttons man' I thought it would have been 'fasten your button laddie, officer on parade'
Or something along those lines.

langleybaston

10th Jan 2018, 15:40

and Csgt Bourne's rank badge is wrong of course.

Wensleydale

10th Jan 2018, 15:57

I did see that one wag had commented about the film that "the Zulus were shown using the Mk2D assegai and yet they used only the Mk2B at Rorkes Drift".

langleybaston

10th Jan 2018, 17:41

Actually there is always a certain sadness in completing a collection - for the true collector, as opposed to investor, the fun is in the finding, not owning.
partial

I do so agree. British regular infantry cap badges August 1914 ......... tick
Wartime economy ditto 1916 .........................................................tic k

And the last few to get are not always the rarest or the most expensive.

I recently completed the shoulder title set for the 1914 cap badges.

Fortunately the quest for British Army military manuals from c. 1820 to 1920 will never be complete, even though I started that mania in 1980. Musketry Training 1914 cost all of £2 then. King's Regs 1914 was very expensive, at £5. Dream on.

Tankertrashnav

10th Jan 2018, 23:28

Impressive badge collection LB - would look nice beside my framed regular infantry buttons of World War One!

Your mention of old prices reminded me of a dear friend (now deceased) who told me he once bought a vast collection of those composite shoulder titles (T RE WESSEX sort of thing). He said "I had to pay five bob each for them but the T RFC HANTS title cost me seven and six! (worn by personnel from Farnborough).

Mind you that was around 50 years ago

goudie - yes I hadn't thought of that one. Some other notable NCO/WO performances from Richard Attenborough - I'm quite sure many "real" NCOs modelled their parade ground voice on his.

ian16th

11th Jan 2018, 08:38

Harry Andrews in The Hill.

Tankertrashnav

11th Jan 2018, 09:10

Yes that was a terrific performance. Also a WO but a much kindlier one in Ice Cold in Alex, just about my favourite war film.

Yes we are wandering a long way from badges, but what good is Jet Blast without thread drift?

goudie

11th Jan 2018, 09:30

The prison riot scene when Harry Andrews was challenged on who he would shoot. 'Every seventh man' he replied with absolute conviction. That shut them up! Brilliant film.

Wander00

11th Jan 2018, 13:39

I recall that at the Towers in the 60s included "Aid to the Civil Power" in the syllabus. Amongst the strictures was "Never shoot over their heads, shoot to kill the ring leader(s)"

son of brommers

11th Jan 2018, 14:08

Now I can mention that the 2 officers could not have been using Webley Mk 6 .455" revolvers either - as they hadn't been invented then!!!
My father was gifted a Mk6 many years back by a fellow military association member. When we received it, it was still packed in grease and wrapped in calico and with an original holster. The revolver belonged to his father who was killed in WW1 and was still in the original packaged state as it was given to the family when it was recovered from the battlefield. We returned it to working state and had a good few years of recreational use from it. It has now been donated to the MOTH museum.

Capt Pit Bull

11th Jan 2018, 15:46

cafesolo

7th Feb 2018, 21:13

And I suspect that even despite this help there are people out there wearing the ‘wrong’ Parachutist badge.
How many are there ? I only know of 2 : a chute supporting a cylindrical container, worn on the right cuff by volunteer rescue teams, and the full para wings worn by every body else that is entitled.
Cafe solo

Tankertrashnav

8th Feb 2018, 22:53

There are variations Cafe Solo. The SAS wear a different pattern as do the Royal Marines.

The Oberon

9th Feb 2018, 05:44

How many are there ? I only know of 2 : a chute supporting a cylindrical container, worn on the right cuff by volunteer rescue teams, and the full para wings worn by every body else that is entitled.
Cafe solo

I suspect "Melchy" is talking about people who continue to wear wings when they should be wearing the light bulb. Between 1967 - 69 I was a member of the NEAF Para Rescue Team based at AKR, did the Abingdon course and was entitled to wings. When I returned to the UK and the requirement for me to jump had gone, I was supposed to change to the light bulb. I claim the 5th amendment.

Tankertrashnav

9th Feb 2018, 10:26

I knew a Cranwell intake of four Regiment officers who did the course at Colerne as I believe it then was and wore the full wings, even though none of them were ever posted to 2 Squadron which was (is?) the Regiment's para squadron.

S'land

9th Feb 2018, 11:49

Wensleydale: What a spoilsport you are!! Now I can mention that the 2 officers could not have been using Webley Mk 6 .455" revolvers either - as they hadn't been invented then!!!

Not to mention that in the film there was only three months difference between the commission dates, when it was really more like three years. Also of note is the character of Private Hook, in the film a criminal drunkard - in reality a teetotal model soldier who ended up as a sergeant.

cafesolo

9th Feb 2018, 17:50

There are variations Cafe Solo. The SAS wear a different pattern as do the Royal Marines.
Of course you are right. My 83 yo brain was adrift.
Surely the four young gentlemen,having received their award,were entitled to wear them for the rest of their service. When I returned to helos, I wore both wings until I retired.

MPN11

9th Feb 2018, 18:10

Please excuse the diversionary question, but it seems most VVSOs these days wear RAF Regt ‘mudguards’, despite (it seems) having never served in the Regt.

Any rationale would be appreciated.

downsizer

10th Feb 2018, 08:29

Please excuse the diversionary question, but it seems most VVSOs these days wear RAF Regt ‘mudguards’, despite (it seems) having never served in the Regt.

Any rationale would be appreciated.

Can't say I've seen any evidence of this?

Innominate

10th Feb 2018, 15:10

ACM Sir Richard Johns was appointed Honorary Air Commodore of the RAF Regiment in 2000, and was presented with his mudguards at Honington.

MPN11

11th Feb 2018, 09:51

AM Sir Bay North is another ... https://www.rafa.org.uk/blog/2017/07/26/new-leadership-for-royal-air-forces-association/

And ACM Sir Steven Dalton.

I knew I've seen images of at least a couple, which is why I asked the question.

Hon Air Cdre RAF Regt is the explanation.

Thanks for the information ... I shall sleep easier now!

Tankertrashnav

5th Apr 2019, 23:10

Not quite the right thread, but I saw some interesting badges on a "colourised" film on TV of work going on at Bletchley Park during WW2 (possibly filmed in a less secret location) Anyway a couple of the RAF chaps, one a sergeant and the other a corporal were wearing four war service chevrons on their lower sleeves. We had a discussion on these on another thread which I cant find, and the general opinion (confirmed by Danny) was that although they were authorised they were often not issued and seldom seen on uniform. Interesting to see two NCOs in the same room wearing them.

To add to the interest another corporal was wearing "Mauritius" shoulder titles on his BD, which must have been pretty scarce. I had a collection of these overseas RAF titles pass though my hands many years ago, and one which stuck in my mind was "Argentina"!.