easyJet (rated) time to command and pay?

[EMB-145LR]

Genuinely asking for a friend; he currently flies in the States on the 320 in the right seat for a loco. Circa 4000 hours total time, around 1200 in the bus. He’s thinking about validating his US A320 rating in Europe and applying to easy at LTN or LGW. He’s British with dual citizenship and holds an EASA licence.

If he were to be successful and make the jump; how soon could he get a London based command? And what sort of pay would he be looking at initially in the RHS and then later in the LHS. He’s been holding out for BA but it doesn’t look like it will happen and I’ve been telling him that if he wants to exclusively do short haul then easy are a great option.

[FlipFlapFlop]

If quick command is important to him then Easy is the clear winner. I presume he is in the hold pool if he is holding out for BA but even if he gets a call he will be bottom of the seniority list and likely will have a much longer long wait. LH and RH salaries are in the public domain.

[kick the tires]

Curious, why doesn't your American friend post the questions himself?

[Skornogr4phy]

I believe as a direct entry FO he has a 6 month wait before he can apply for command. Then as long as the command process takes (which depends on requirements)

[EMB-145LR]

If little details like this are of some concern to you; He called me last night asking for my advice. I can give him the BA perspective but I said I’d ask around about easyJet.

[VJW]

With only 1200 on type I’d be asking what EasyJet require for upgrade. I know legal minimums are 3000 total and 1500 on type but what’s the reality? My gut tells me he’d be at least 3 years or more from an upgrade, behind all those already in EasyJet with more hours on type.

PPJN figures are accurate on salary btw- having received the DEC contract recently.

[kick the tires]

If little details like this are of some concern to you; He called me last night asking for my advice. I can give him the BA perspective but I said I’d ask around about easyJet.

No concern, just, like your question started, curious.

An aspiring Captain should be able to speak for himself, should he not?

[EMB-145LR]

I’m not sure if he’s even familiar with this forum, being US based. Just doing a mate a favour.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your help. I’ll pass it on.

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

What is involved in being assessed for a command course at Easyjet as an SFO? Is it a case of having the prerequisite ticks from recurrent sims, or is there a formal selection process on top?

Thanks

[dirk85]

Formal assessment, with plenty of interviews, technical and non technical, psycho evaluation, assessment flights and assessment sims.
After this, if the command board thinks you are good enough, off you go for the command course, which is also no joke.
In the best case scenario it takes about 1,5 years from the start of the process, which cannot start before 6 months of employment.

[UberPilot]

What is involved in being assessed for a command course at Easyjet as an SFO? Is it a case of having the prerequisite ticks from recurrent sims, or is there a formal selection process on top?

Thanks

After expressing a desire to start the command process (min 2000, full ATPL, and base captain recommendation) you have to Complete 2 personality evaluation tests, and have an interview with a pyscologist. Gets graded green, Amber or red. Green means continue and Over the next year you’ll be rostered 3 evaluation flights with a trainer. Aim is Check that you’re proficient in current role and have spare capacity required for command. Next, in-line with requirements and placing on command waiting list you’ll be rostered and command sim assessment and interview with a TRE. This is the big hurdle - pass this and then the command review board will confirm you’re suitability and you’ll get a command course depending on base choices and position on waiting list. Current requirements are 3000 total and 1000 heavy jet. However, realistically even with those already it’ll still take 18 months min to get though the process.

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

After expressing a desire to start the command process (min 2000, full ATPL, and base captain recommendation) you have to Complete 2 personality evaluation tests, and have an interview with a pyscologist. Gets graded green, Amber or red. Green means continue and Over the next year you’ll be rostered 3 evaluation flights with a trainer. Aim is Check that you’re proficient in current role and have spare capacity required for command. Next, in-line with requirements and placing on command waiting list you’ll be rostered and command sim assessment and interview with a TRE. This is the big hurdle - pass this and then the command review board will confirm you’re suitability and you’ll get a command course depending on base choices and position on waiting list. Current requirements are 3000 total and 1000 heavy jet. However, realistically even with those already it’ll still take 18 months min to get though the process.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. My hours are well in excess of those requirements but that sounds like a pretty heavy process, although doable I’m sure.

Cheers

[Daddy Fantastic]

If quick command is important to him then Easy is the clear winner. I presume he is in the hold pool if he is holding out for BA but even if he gets a call he will be bottom of the seniority list and likely will have a much longer long wait. LH and RH salaries are in the public domain.

So why dont you just point the guy in the right direction as to where to find the salaries instead of saying in the public domain, thats the help he is asking for.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Curious, why doesn't your American friend post the questions himself?

Maybe he is not a pprunner so got a friend to do it for him, why so suspicious?

[Daddy Fantastic]

No concern, just, like your question started, curious.

An aspiring Captain should be able to speak for himself, should he not?

Calm down DAD!!!

[Denti]

Quite honestly, the internal process is much much harder than the external DEC application process. And it is completely dependant on the base captain and the TRE doing the simulator and interview. Some do 4 hour interviews for the very first step, others just take 5 minutes. So it is not really standardized at all, it is very much a personal preference of those doing the interviews. On the other hand, the training is just the bare minimum and will not do much in terms of training at all, so better study up beforehand. For an external FO, one is at an distinct disadvantage against the internally brought up cadets who know the books quite well and set the standard.

[dirk85]

Agreed, the command process is very demanding, not a lot of training involved, just a lot of checking.
There have been periods with absurdly high failure rates, while now it seems to be stabilizing on more normal numbers. Not a walk in the park, that’s for sure.

[VJW]

Quite honestly, the internal process is much much harder than the external DEC application process.

Firstly I’d question whether you’ve done both?

Secondly and with all due respect, I joined as a non rated DEC last year with 5000 hrs PIC on similar jets. I should hope the DEC application process is ‘easier’ than the internal upgrade process. After all I’ve done an upgrade and flown for 7.5 years as a Captain in and out the same airspace as eJ. The reason the DEC process is easier for a DEC than an upgrade is for an internal FO is down to experience and it’s exactly as challenging as the respective candidates should find it.

Any decent and safe operator has tough upgrade courses. Internal upgrades in eJ are no more deserving of the LHS than any other internal upgrade candidate at a different airline.

[Denti]

Firstly I’d question whether you’ve done both?

Secondly and with all due respect, I joined as a non rated DEC last year with 5000 hrs PIC on similar jets. I should hope the DEC application process is ‘easier’ than the internal upgrade process. After all I’ve done an upgrade and flown for 7.5 years as a Captain in and out the same airspace as eJ. The reason the DEC process is easier for a DEC than an upgrade is for an internal FO is down to experience and it’s exactly as challenging as the respective candidates should find it.

Any decent and safe operator has tough upgrade courses. Internal upgrades in eJ are no more deserving of the LHS than any other internal upgrade candidate at a different airline.


Well, yes, i have done both. And for internal upgrades candidates, the current situation simply means that the company prefers to keep internal upgrade numbers artificially low in favor of direct entry captains. And that has been indeed confirmed by training, simply because the training department likes that DECs do not use up that much of its capacity. In effect, internal candidates, even those with prior command experience on airbus, have to stay back for external captains, and that is quite a bit to swallow.

But the bigger issue is, it is not an objective system, it is completely and utterly subjective. I would argue that most would not have any issue at all with a fair and objective system. But that does not exist in easyJet.

[dirk85]

The numbers say something different. Last year it was peculiar due to the Air Berlin situation, but in 2017 there were around 350 upgrades, and less than 50 DEC. The company traditionally has always preferred internal candidates whenever possible.

[VJW]

Well, yes, i have done both. And for internal upgrades candidates, the current situation simply means that the company prefers to keep internal upgrade numbers artificially low in favor of direct entry captains. And that has been indeed confirmed by training, simply because the training department likes that DECs do not use up that much of its capacity. In effect, internal candidates, even those with prior command experience on airbus, have to stay back for external captains, and that is quite a bit to swallow.

But the bigger issue is, it is not an objective system, it is completely and utterly subjective. I would argue that most would not have any issue at all with a fair and objective system. But that does not exist in easyJet.

Sorry Denti but have you personally done both? Did you do an internal upgrade in eJ, leave the company and then join again as a DEC? Maybe if you’re a training Captain you’ve trained both, but if that were the case then you’d not be arguing the point you currently are I don’t think.

You’ve honestly no idea what the company prefers, without being on the board how could you? I’ve wanted to join eJ for over 11 years and they’ve only hired non rated for last couple. So where you get the idea the company likes anything other than upgrading internally I don’t know. The last few years where the likes of BA (and even Air France) have probably hoovered up plenty of FO’s, eJ have hired DEC (and DEP) because they needed to not because they wanted to IMO. Personally I think companies prefer to do that regardless of training capacity as they’d see it as they can still mould the candidate into the type of Captain they want. Not to mention they pay them less than a DEC to begin with.

The latter part of your comment is probably true. It was like that at my last company. Some people on my command course came from small bases and got signed off to do the upgrade because they simply knew the base Captain really well. Others like myself, had to jump through all the hoops to achieve the same.

My advice would be to remember that you’ve no god given right to expect you’re next for the LHS just because you meet the requirements. Long haul FO’s probably wait 10 or more years with the minimum requirements before even having a sniff at upgrading. (FWIW I sat in the BA hold pool for 18 months while BA hired white tails and then reopened recruitment to allow 500 hr Airbus newbies in ahead of us swimmers - also a bitter pill to swallow, but that’s the way it goes I’m afraid).