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View Full Version : African Migrants "may" have fuelled crime rise


Trim Stab
5th Jan 2018, 18:17
Germany: Migrants 'may have fuelled violent crime rise' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42557828)

Wow the rocket scientists have finally realised that allowing lots of Africans into Europe is not really a very good idea.

What are Africans bringing for us? We already have to face a future whereby most menial jobs will be increasingly automised - hence experimentation with Universal Basic Income so that our existing low IQ unemployable have some dignity in life.

And we are letting in more of these unemployable, unqualified troublemakers who have no place in our society except to cause wahalah?

I support allowing temporary migration from nearby countries that have been affected by war or catastrophe that is not their own fault (eg my own parents took in Bosnian family when they were displaced to UK - and they all went back as soon as they could). But these African migrants are just economic migrants - our efforts should be focussed on reforming corruption and misgovernance in their home countries - not extending a free holiday for violent criminals!.

I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia.

galaxy flyer
5th Jan 2018, 18:26
Now, they tell us, when many could have forewarned us decades ago.

GF

G-CPTN
5th Jan 2018, 18:40
At least, those who demanded entrance should have been'documented' according to their origin - or if undeclared origin then documented as such.

No documentation then 'they don't exist' (legally) - so no benefits or consideration other than subsistence rations and a place in a refugee camp with no chance of assimilation into the general populace (call them concentration camps if you like).
When they remember from whence they came then they could move up the scale towards asylum.

meadowrun
5th Jan 2018, 23:03
It's deja vu, all over again.

ChrisVJ
6th Jan 2018, 02:33
Someone did warn you. You ignored it.

feueraxt
6th Jan 2018, 06:12
It's not just a European issue. Australia has a tiny African immigrant community which is causing law and order problems way out of proportion to its size.

It's our fault, of course. Seeing as there are no examples of African immigration working successfully anywhere else on the planet, what made our government think it would achieve a different result here?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

From this week's newspapers:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/she-begged-them-not-to-take-her-ipad-because-thats-her-connection-to-her-husband-20180105-h0e6w9.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/african-youth-crime-how-can-you-respect-someone-who-doesnt-respect-you-20180105-h0e41j.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/police-hunt-youths-over-series-of-home-invasions-and-assaults-in-melbournes-west-20180105-h0e07a.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/violence-fear-and-discrimination-in-melbournes-west-20180106-h0edue.html

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/four-teens-arrested-over-trashing-of-werribee-airbnb-house-20180105-p4yy9g.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/african-crime-gang-brings-chaos-and-crime-tofamily-park/news-story/4dcd7a3dfdd829b7ecb200b692ee3143



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/we-have-an-issue-with-sudanese-gangs-here-s-how-we-can-tackle-it-20171230-p4yy4p.html

sitigeltfel
6th Jan 2018, 06:19
Australia enjoying the same benefits of migration...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS1WAGXX4AAfuvj?format=jpg

Octane
6th Jan 2018, 06:20
Most of the Africans causing headaches here in Melbourne are youths born here...

sitigeltfel
6th Jan 2018, 06:48
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/191444d4c493cd1936166455ba0b4e8034a7d3525d00a5f4d05c05d10ea0 3e52.jpg?w=600&h=427

feueraxt
6th Jan 2018, 07:23
Victorians scared to go to restaurants at night because of street gang violence: Peter Dutton

Victorians scared to go to restaurants at night because of street gang violence: Peter Dutton (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/victorians-scared-to-go-to-restaurants-at-night-because-of-street-gang-violence-peter-dutton-20180103-h0cvu4.html)

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton has blasted the Victorian Labor government over African street crime, claiming residents of Australia's second-largest city were scared to go out to restaurants at night.

In a dramatic intervention in the state's crime debate, Mr Dutton accused Premier Daniel Andrews of undermining the police and the courts and said political correctness had "taken hold" in the state.

Mr Dutton told Sydney radio station 2GB that "people are scared to go out to restaurants of a night time because they are followed home by these gangs" and were worried about home invasions and cars being stolen, but did not provide any evidence to support these claims.

"You look at some of the jokes of sentences that are being handed down, there's no deterrence at the moment," the newly installed Home Affairs Minister and former police officer said.

"And the state government's wrapped its police force up in this politically correct conversation - which I think they're trying to break out of and they are trying to do the right thing - but I think the state government's really been caught flat-footed."

Mr Dutton claimed police were getting a "go soft" message from the state government, which he also criticised for appointing civil libertarians to the judiciary.

"We just need to call it for what it is. Of course it's African gang violence. It's not the whole community, there are many good people within the community that would condemn this action as strongly as you and I would...and have done so, and to their credit.

"We need to weed out the people who have done the wrong thing, deport them where we can, but where they are Australian citizens, we need to deal with them according to the law."

Acting Victorian Premier Tim Pallas has hit back, accusing the federal government of cutting funding that Victoria could have used for law enforcement.

"We take our advice on these matters from Victoria Police, not from desperate politicians propping up a desperate prime minister and his desperate government," he said.

"These ridiculous comments made on Sydney radio are not only wrong, they are particularly galling given Malcolm Turnbull wants to cut $972 million from Victoria's GST share - the equivalent of 7,700 frontline police officers."

Victoria's Youth Affairs Minister Jenny Mikakos says tackling youth crime and gang violence will take more than the simplistic answers offered up by critics.

"For those people who are running around putting about simplistic answers, all I can say is that is a complete con job," she told reporters in Melbourne.

"Because one thing alone is not going to fix this issue."

Ms Mikakos said youth crime is not a new issue, and authorities have been working with police and community organisations to focus on prevention and early intervention for a number of years.

"We have a very significant number of young people of African descent in custody in our youth justice system at the moment," Ms Mikakos said.

While people of Sudanese backgrounds are over-represented in crime statistics, Victoria's youth crime rates have been declining for a decade and the last quarter of 2017 saw a drop in overall crime.

Mr Dutton said the independence of the courts should be respected but insisted they weren't above criticism, going on to attack "pathetically weak" decisions by some magistrates.

On Tuesday, Victorian Police Minister Lisa Neville and acting chief commissioner Shane Patton vowed youth gangs would be stamped out but sought to downplay concerns the state was facing a crisis.

Ms Neville and Mr Patton said four high-profile incidents in December linked to African youths had fuelled a misconception that police were not willing to call out and address gang violence.

Police have expressed caution about describing the spate of activity as "gang crime" because the core group of youths taking to the streets were not actually involved in organised crime.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on Monday said the federal government was "very concerned about the growing gang violence and lawlessness in Victoria".

Mr Dutton also criticised federal Labor leader Bill Shorten for opposing government legislation that would have required aspiring Australian citizens to demonstrate steps to integrate with Australian society.

"As a Victorian, frankly, he should know first hand why this is important and there's, I think, a long way to run in this debate," Mr Dutton said. "But the short answer is that, if people haven't integrated, if they are not abiding by our laws, if they don't adhere to our culture, then they are not welcome here."

Dan_Brown
6th Jan 2018, 12:02
Mods!!!!

They are all racists!!!😁 LOL

SASless
6th Jan 2018, 12:09
Trim,

I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia.


Remind me....how many Millions of people in Europe have been killed by fellow Europeans?

We could include the Turks and some Slavs too if you want.

For fairness sakes I will even include the treatment of Native Peoples by Americans and Australians.

Be it ethnic cleansing or street crime....there are some ugly sides to all sorts of ethnicities and nationalities.

Finger pointing is a dangerous game as there is plenty of blame to go around.

Not that I disagree in what you meant to say in that Africans can hold a very much different set of values than those from more developed nations.

Not all of them are evil murdering robbers.....some are just like the rest of us trying to raise our families and make a better life for them than we had and do so in a totally acceptable manner.

Krystal n chips
6th Jan 2018, 13:03
Germany: Migrants 'may have fuelled violent crime rise' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42557828)

Wow the rocket scientists have finally realised that allowing lots of Africans into Europe is not really a very good idea.

What are Africans bringing for us? We already have to face a future whereby most menial jobs will be increasingly automised - hence experimentation with Universal Basic Income so that our existing low IQ unemployable have some dignity in life.

And we are letting in more of these unemployable, unqualified troublemakers who have no place in our society except to cause wahalah?

I support allowing temporary migration from nearby countries that have been affected by war or catastrophe that is not their own fault (eg my own parents took in Bosnian family when they were displaced to UK - and they all went back as soon as they could). But these African migrants are just economic migrants - our efforts should be focussed on reforming corruption and misgovernance in their home countries - not extending a free holiday for violent criminals!.

I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia.

Well nobody could ever accuse you of being a progressive social reformer could they.

Just being curious here, but, and I hope you don't mind me asking, how do you propose to ensure everybody who is born is subsequently perfect in mind and body.....tempting though it may be, eugenics is not the answer.

You say you spent 20 years in Africa....which begs the question as to why, if you detest the continent and the various populations therein that much, you stayed so long ?.... surely money or remuneration couldn't be the reason....could it ?

However, I do agree with your last paragraph ....you were referring to the former British Empire, our Colonial past and those who administered it here I take it ?

HEMS driver
6th Jan 2018, 13:31
Nigerian immigrants in U.S.:

Texas couple ordered to pay nanny $121G in restitution | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/06/texas-couple-ordered-to-pay-nanny-121g-in-restitution.html)

larssnowpharter
6th Jan 2018, 17:35
Then, of course, there is an African country which has received around 150,000 immigrants from a Western European country over the last 10 years. Many are, apparently, illegal and almost all were economic migrants escaping desperate economic conditions in their own country.

meadowrun
6th Jan 2018, 19:18
Most of the Africans causing headaches here in Melbourne are youths born here...


So they have had all the benefits a first world country can offer, all their lives.
What's their excuse then?
What's their parents excuse?

G-CPTN
6th Jan 2018, 19:41
Is it because they is black (http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/is_it_because_i_is_black)?

Octane
6th Jan 2018, 22:38
Meadowrun,

Re "What's their parents excuse?"

The vast majority of the migrants are hard working and make an effort to fit in. Sadly, and I've heard/ read this publicly, "The community leaders/ elders/ parents say they have lost control over the kids, are ashamed and don't know what to do" (paraphrasing here but you get the drift)

parabellum
7th Jan 2018, 00:06
Octane: Most of the Africans causing headaches here in Melbourne are youths born here... Maybe some of the younger teenagers who are learning the 'craft' of robbery with violence etc. but many in these gangs of five to ten people are described as being adult males in their twenties and thirties. Here in Victoria the government will go to great lengths to protect these "poor, unfortunate" individuals and to demonise the victims.



The vast majority of the migrants are hard working and make an effort to fit in. Very debateable if talking about the more recently arrived from both Africa and the Middle East. Otherwise yes, true.

Buswinker
7th Jan 2018, 01:06
Then, of course, there is an African country which has received around 150,000 immigrants from a Western European country over the last 10 years. Many are, apparently, illegal and almost all were economic migrants escaping desperate economic conditions in their own country.

Genuinely intrigued- give us a clue?

chevvron
7th Jan 2018, 03:52
The 'may' is important as its my perception that Rumanians, Bulgarians and Albanians all had a part in fuelling increasing crime too.

feueraxt
7th Jan 2018, 04:11
Octane: Maybe some of the younger teenagers who are learning the 'craft' of robbery with violence etc. but many in these gangs of five to ten people are described as being adult males in their twenties and thirties. Here in Victoria the government will go to great lengths to protect these "poor, unfortunate" individuals and to demonise the victims.



Very debateable if talking about the more recently arrived from both Africa and the Middle East. Otherwise yes, true.


To quote retired radio host Ron Casey, "they should be sent home in sheep transport ships with 'Australian Reject' stamped on their foreheads".

chuks
7th Jan 2018, 04:22
"I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia."

Just because some of us have spent a long time working in Africa, that is no reason to condemn all expatriates, "these people," in the same terms.

Some of us take care to treat Africans with a modicum of respect! Other expats, sure, they can go a bit mad being given a lot of power over others for the first time in their no-account lives, but that is not all of us. Some of us do manage to re-integrate into "civilizations in Europe or Asia." Other expatriates such as yourself, Trim Stab, do stay that way after having "gone bush," but then you may find bad people in all societies.

I would suggest getting professional help with your obvious problems, Trim Stab, instead of assuming that all expats share them.

Octane
7th Jan 2018, 05:36
Like I said before, if these young people are Australian citizens they can't be sent anywhere other than jail where they belong...

bcgallacher
7th Jan 2018, 06:51
This problem is not unique to Australia - figures I have seen show a disproportionate number of the London black community are victims and perpetrators of violent crime. Unfortunately due to PC we are not allowed to discuss this as it would be racist. We pretend the problem does not exist therefore there is no solution in sight.

Metro man
7th Jan 2018, 08:33
Many of the members of African street gangs in Australia are of Sudanese origin. Straight from a third world war zone who would reasonably expect them to fit into a modern, democratic first world country, strong on human rights and the rule of law ?

They just don't and will never fit in. Whoever decided to bring them over needs his head examining. There are enough problems with the aboriginals already, and the Somalis bought in at the start of the African refugee program should have served as an immediate red flag against further immigration from the dark continent.

Even the well publicised behaviour of African illegals in Europe didn't seem to deter the bleeding heart liberals.

feueraxt
7th Jan 2018, 08:45
Many of the members of African street gangs in Australia are of Sudanese origin. Straight from a third world war zone who would reasonably expect them to fit into a modern, democratic first world country, strong on human rights and the rule of law ?

They just don't and will never fit in. Whoever decided to bring them over needs his head examining. There are enough problems with the aboriginals already, and the Somalis bought in at the start of the African refugee program should have served as an immediate red flag against further immigration from the dark continent.

Even the well publicised behaviour of African illegals in Europe didn't seem to deter the bleeding heart liberals.

I wouldn't convalute the circumstances of our native Australian aboriginal people and the actions of the African immigrants. They are totally different issues.

I agree with the rest of your post.

feueraxt
7th Jan 2018, 08:54
Poll shows African youth crime a key issue, and Andrews better to deal with it

Poll shows African youth crime a key issue, and Andrews better to deal with it (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/poll-shows-african-youth-crime-a-key-issue-and-andrews-better-to-deal-with-it-20180107-h0enyq.html)

Voters in two key outer Melbourne electorates say resoundingly that crime involving African youths has spiked in the last year, and more than half identify law and order as their biggest concern.

However, a strong majority of more than 1300 residents polled in the Labor seats of Tarneit and Cranbourne believe Premier Daniel Andrews will better tackle crime than Opposition Leader Matthew Guy.

The ReachTEL phone poll was conducted for The Age on Friday – the day after a midnight rampage in Melbourne's north-west involving up to 10 African youths.

In the seat of Tarneit, held by Labor by almost 15 per cent at the last state election, more than a third of those polled said they or someone they knew had been a gang violence victim in the last year.

The poll also indicated softening support for Labor in Tarneit: it would still hold the seat if an election had been held last week, but with a greatly reduced margin.

In Cranbourne, a marginal seat held by Labor by just 2.3 per cent, more than a quarter of residents polled said gang violence had affected them or someone they knew in the last year.

A large majority of voters in both seats – which have higher rates of crimes against the person than most of the state – said that managing crime and anti-social behaviour was crucial in deciding who they would vote for.

The issue of law and order easily outstripped other hot-button topics including transport, property prices and jobs.

In both seats, around 70 per cent of residents polled believed the main issue with youth crime concerned "gangs of African origin".

While law and order has been a long-standing problem for the Andrews government, the focus has intensified on African youths in recent weeks following a spate of high-profile offences and intense media coverage of the issue.

Incidents include an attack on a police officer at Highpoint shopping centre, an ugly brawl in St Kilda, the trashing of an Airbnb property in Werribee, and a crime spree in Melbourne's west on Thursday night.

Among Thursday's offences was the terrorising of a 59-year-old woman in the suburb of Hillside by a group of young men who stormed the house she was looking after.

In a sign of how bitterly fought November's election will be, the Coalition has seized on these and other cases to portray Mr Andrews as soft on crime, and to attack Victoria's sentencing and bail system.

Federal Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton last week also weighed in to assist his Victorian colleagues, saying, without evidence, that people in Melbourne were "scared to go out to restaurants of a night time because they are followed home by these gangs".

While many poured scorn on Mr Dutton, a majority of voters polled in Tarneit and Cranbourne said they were less likely to go out at night than 12 months ago because of the threat of gang violence.

In Tarneit, 62 per cent said they were less likely to go out at night. In the age group aged over 65, the figure was even higher: 71 per cent.

In Cranbourne, held by Labor since 2002, a touch over half of voters polled said they were more frightened to go out at night than a year ago. Older voters there were also more fearful, with 65 per cent saying they were less likely to go out at night than a year ago.

But in a blow to the state Coalition's hopes of winning this year's election by focusing on youth crime, in both electorates a majority of voters found that the courts, parents or police were most responsible for managing the issue.

Under 20 per cent of voters in both seats believed the state government shouldered responsibility for the issue.

In Cranbourne, 67 per cent of voters polled believed Mr Andrews would be the most effective in dealing with crime, while in Tarneit 75 per cent said the Premier would do a better job than Mr Guy.

Monash University politics lecturer Zareh Ghazarian said that, while Labor was unlikely to lose either seat, the level of concern among voters was striking.

"Law and order is the hot button issue," he said. "The newspapers with front page articles about gang violence and youth violence, and the nightly news with stories on gang and youth violence, it's clearly paying a part in this. But it's at the forefront of peoples' attention."

Dr Ghazarian said the "silver lining" for Labor was that, in both seats, Mr Andrews was seen as the most effective in dealing with crime and anti-social behaviour. Only a third of voters in Cranbourne felt Mr Guy would deal with the issue better, and only a quarter in Tarneit.

"With a lot of commentary about the Premier's policies and performance and crime rates, you'd have thought it would be lower than that – so that's a real positive for Labor," Dr Ghazarian said.

He said that for law and order to be "head and shoulders above health, education, transport and the economy" was unusual. "It's quite distinctive of the 2018 campaign."

"It is clearly signalling it's a great concern to the electorate – especially to older members of the community. The older people get the more they appear to be concerned."

Pontius Navigator
7th Jan 2018, 09:06
There are many traditional, long standing stereotypes. We are no longer permitted by law to refer to these or attribute them to a section of society. While it is obvious that such stereotyping cannot apply to every person in that group it should be self-evident that they were originally accurate descriptions for peoples from particular cultures.

A possibly benign example is the heaven and hell joke. There is no doubt that it is racist but you can still see the original truisms - British and Gerna police, British and French cooking etc.

Mike Flynn
7th Jan 2018, 11:56
Whenever I see pictures of migrants on boats they are invariably young African males.

How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.

Pali
7th Jan 2018, 13:32
Whenever I see pictures of migrants on boats they are invariably young African males.

How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.

Let's look at one historical parallel. In the last 150 years around one million Slovaks emigrated from their homeland (roughly 580.000 till 1919) mostly to United States but also to Canada, Argentina etc.

When I studied the history of this exodus it was obvious that the first wave consisted almost exclusively of young males who were a sort of envoy. They were unqualified, most of them had max 4 years education, spoke no foreign language, no experience from any industry, etc. If they were able to hold ground they sent money home so the wife and children could follow across the ocean.

The poorest folks weren't able to pursue this way and that is also valid in the today's immigration. To enter the boat you need to have at least some resources otherwise you are stuck in some refugee camp for years.

Unless you simply run away when your house is bombed you don't send your wife and kids forward. It is the man who has better chances to find some job and prepare new existence for the rest of the family.

Anytime I don't see young males as prevalent immigrants I am rather surprised.

There is another point in history which tends to repeat itself: immigrants are lured by traffickers who spread false rumours about how "great it all is". Do you know why Greenland bears its name although there is so little green on the island? Because the name was given by seafarers who made profit from emigration so they tried to make it look desirable. It is a big business. I saw adds from around 1900 which described life "behind great pond" as wonderful destiny and it was issued in Slovak language by Cunard, White Star Lines etc. to promote the sales of transatlantic tickets.

If there is a chance that African and Asian immigrants find a job and can contribute to the society that would be entirely different discussion but we better understand how this processes work and why are things the way they are.

meadowrun
7th Jan 2018, 14:09
You assume young men with wife and kids left behind.
I assume young, single males in the majority of the recent surges.

Mike Flynn
7th Jan 2018, 14:44
The USA was crying out for mass immigration 100 years ago to fill basic manual jobs.

Those opportunities do not exist in 21 century Europe.

What will happen to hundreds of thousands of semi illiterate young men is anyones guess.

Pontius Navigator
7th Jan 2018, 15:29
Your lone young male, married or single, is an economic migrant. If young and single he should fight for his country. If married he should escape with his family.

Some decades ago, at a lecture, we were told of refugees escaping Haiti. Escape was simple, either slip across the border sail around to Dominican Republic. Instead they would sail passed Cuba to Florida, why?

Pontius Navigator
7th Jan 2018, 15:47
In the Mediterranean tourist spots you will have noted the people sitting around, a suitcase of sunglasses and watches for sale. You see them winding their way around tables in cafes and bars being shooed away by the owners from time to time.

Some has paid for the tat and the seller has either hired the suitcase or is working commission. It appears to be an exclusive African franchise. Does anyone buy from them?

In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.

skydiver69
7th Jan 2018, 16:27
In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.

Possibly because of modern slavery or because they are a great way to launder money. There was a BBC news story last week about slavery and the prevalence of enslaved workers at car washes. A DS spoke to a group I was with and dismissed or down played the link to modern slavery however she said that she had some evidence that they were used for money laundering. Either way someone is making a lot of money from the car washes and I guess that there is an incentive for the workers to work hard when at a guess they are working for less than minimum wage and cash in hand.

sitigeltfel
7th Jan 2018, 16:41
"I’m from the North born and raised and lived near Rochdale fir some time. Sexual violence and abuse of women and children was and remains rife in poor communities. My own view is that we ‘groomed’ Pakistani men into this abusive aspect of working class British culture."

Lee Jasper, Labour party activist, on Twitter.

There you have it, it's all our fault!

chevvron
7th Jan 2018, 21:57
In the Mediterranean tourist spots you will have noted the people sitting around, a suitcase of sunglasses and watches for sale. You see them winding their way around tables in cafes and bars being shooed away by the owners from time to time.

Some has paid for the tat and the seller has either hired the suitcase or is working commission. It appears to be an exclusive African franchise. Does anyone buy from them?

In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.
They also have the latest smartphones.

ethicalconundrum
7th Jan 2018, 22:05
Nigerian immigrants in U.S.:

Texas couple ordered to pay nanny $121G in restitution | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/06/texas-couple-ordered-to-pay-nanny-121g-in-restitution.html)

Just an FYI to this story which I consider needing a bit of amplification or clarity:

Chudy Nsobundu, 57, and his wife Sandra Nsobundu, 49, also were sentenced to seven months in jail and seven months of home confinement, plus three years probation. The couple, who are Nigerian-born, naturalized U.S. citizens,

MG23
7th Jan 2018, 23:26
How these uneducated youths are going to get qualifications, a job and integrate beats me.

They're not. They're going to vote for politicians who promise them 'free stuff'.

This whole mess is about bringing in foreign voters who'll do the votes the local people won't do. Because otherwise, every left-wing party in the West would be on its deathbed right now.

The Nip
8th Jan 2018, 11:09
They're not. They're going to vote for politicians who promise them 'free stuff

To be fair MG, that can be said of the many workshy Brits as well. I have often said that until you make working more profitable and beneficial than welfare it will never change.

Training Risky
8th Jan 2018, 11:12
In the Mediterranean tourist spots you will have noted the people sitting around, a suitcase of sunglasses and watches for sale. You see them winding their way around tables in cafes and bars being shooed away by the owners from time to time.

Some has paid for the tat and the seller has either hired the suitcase or is working commission. It appears to be an exclusive African franchise. Does anyone buy from them?

In contrast the Baltic car wash franchises in UK and similar Iraqi ones do have them working hard.

Sometimes the urgent haste they put into getting 50 odd cars clean in an hour reduces the Quality of their work to a p!ss-poor level.

I put my car through one of these human cleaning factories last year. "Why not give them a chance?" I thought. "They want to work hard so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt..."

On first inspection the cleaning job looked ok, it was only after I had paid cash in hand (!) and got home, that I noticed a large gouge in my plastic rear bumper where a foot/hoover had been unceremoniously dragged in and out of the boot:mad:

First and last time I use one of these places. I'll do it myself.

Caveat Emptor...

Mike Flynn
8th Jan 2018, 11:44
Many of the boats used for the Med crossing are just large inflatables with small engines and little fuel. They are not proper ribs and it appears the technique is they are towed several miles offshore followed by the occupants phoning the rescue services.

They take the migrants to Greece or Italy and the traffickers pick up the inflatables to be used again.

They are clearly manufactured for this specific purpose.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYu3GxUI2rugxEsGDZ5rcE1bw-zKUcnWYVFqsWEyTk_gTWffYM2mpQlzSJ

frampton
8th Jan 2018, 13:02
Sometimes the urgent haste they put into getting 50 odd cars clean in an hour reduces the Quality of their work to a p!ss-poor level.

I put my car through one of these human cleaning factories last year. "Why not give them a chance?" I thought. "They want to work hard so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt..."

On first inspection the cleaning job looked ok, it was only after I had paid cash in hand (!) and got home, that I noticed a large gouge in my plastic rear bumper where a foot/hoover had been unceremoniously dragged in and out of the boot:mad:

First and last time I use one of these places. I'll do it myself.

Caveat Emptor...
Blimey, you're trusting. I have used said service a few times but I have never allowed them access to the interior of my car.

Luggage
8th Jan 2018, 20:04
Someone did warn you. You ignored it.

Nice one, so very true. I bet the UK wished they had listened to Enoch Powell and not played PC politician and feigned outrage!!:ok:

Pontius Navigator
8th Jan 2018, 21:22
Training Risky, we use one at a local garden centre. They rip us off every time. £5.99 wash and shammy but they never give us change. I think they owe us 30p.

However they also do a headlight polish. £20, took 40 minutes and saved me £200. The previous car I had to have done involved ca bumper drop, headlight removal, postage, return, refit etc, the car was down for 5 days.

meadowrun
8th Jan 2018, 21:29
See, What's all this tripe about low-paying, unskilled, menial jobs going automated in the near future, extincting thousands and thousands of entry and lower level positions?


Even given that fully automated car washes have been around for decades - immigrants still have to imported to clean cars!

G-CPTN
8th Jan 2018, 21:50
Our 'hand wash' is in the carpark of the large supermarket on the edge of the nearby town.
This facility is obviously semi-integrated with the supermarket owners (T.Esco) and it is difficult to determine whether the Eastern European workers are the chicken or the egg.

Captain Dart
8th Jan 2018, 21:54
It's all 'whitey's' fault again. Australia's welfare payments are not enough:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/01/08/18/27/centrelink-payments-to-blame-for-son-s-gang-activity-says-mum

meadowrun
8th Jan 2018, 22:07
That is very sad to read for a lot of reasons.


"They came from a very traumatised environment, and coming to Australia, trying to fit in with the religion and the friends around them at school, is very challenging,"


Which is more traumatizing for them? Australia?

G-CPTN
8th Jan 2018, 22:32
How did these African immigrants behave when they were in Africa?

parabellum
9th Jan 2018, 05:11
How did these African immigrants behave when they were in Africa?


Well, crime in Johannesburg is at an all time high and rarely gets reported in the West, car jackings and murder are daily events, robbery on a grand scale, homes with sophisticated security systems as well as dogs to protect them and barbed wire along the boundary wall is common. Street crime, home invasion, car jackings etc. are a way of life in Somalia and the Sudan, Kenya isn't much better at times.

G-CPTN
9th Jan 2018, 05:19
Well, crime in Johannesburg is at an all time high and rarely gets reported in the West, car jackings and murder are daily events, robbery on a grand scale, homes with sophisticated security systems as well as dogs to protect them and barbed wire along the boundary wall is common. Street crime, home invasion, car jackings etc. are a way of life in Somalia and the Sudan, Kenya isn't much better at times.

So their behaviour in their adopted 'new World' is 'normal'?

flash8
9th Jan 2018, 06:04
Everybody outside the PC World admits exactly when South Africa turned from crime free to crime ridden.

It's just that stating the bloody obvious causes much grief.

Pontius Navigator
9th Jan 2018, 08:18
Namibia a safe haven, houses with electric fences.

ex_matelot
9th Jan 2018, 09:54
There is now a surfeit of those of an African heritage employed within the UK security industry. The SIA (used) to have quite strict criteria to qualify for a licence, regarding 5 year background check as a UK national, literacy, previous addresses etc. G4S cocking up the olympics however caused an urgent requirement for extra security guards, many many were fast-tracked.

If you employ security in somewhere like London and are not regarded as a 'prestige site' by the security company, the chances are, your night watchman will have only been in the UK 8 months, his grasp of English will extend not much further than "yes boss", he will have had his SIA application fast-tracked and mentored throughout and he will be pretty much nothing more than a bum on a seat.

He will drive an Uber during the day and basically use nightshifts doing security as "paid sleep". If, in the course of his duties he does discover something amiss he will do one of two things - phone his control room to ask what to do or...simply leg it.

Many premises are scared to broach the subject or voice complaint though because they fear being labelled as racist.

Trossie
9th Jan 2018, 11:26
So their behaviour in their adopted 'new World' is 'normal'?Yes.

Many ... are scared to broach the subject or voice complaint though because they fear being labelled as racist.And, yes.

Trossie
9th Jan 2018, 11:38
Well nobody could ever accuse you of being a progressive social reformer could they.

... ... ...

However, I do agree with your last paragraph ....you were referring to the former British Empire, our Colonial past and those who administered it here I take it ?That 'last paragraph' refers to the Thread Starter's paragraph:I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia.Probably the period in history where the ordinary people of Africa suffered by far the least from greedy and murderous tribal chiefs and warlords was during the period of the British Empire and Colonial past where those administering it brought more peace and lawfulness to the lives of those ordinary people than they had experienced before or after. (It's surprising the strange, detached, view of the world, the past, etc., that one develops if one's view of that world is blinkered to the pages of the Guardian!)

Blacksheep
9th Jan 2018, 12:33
What will happen to hundreds of thousands of semi illiterate young men is anyone's guess.From my recent expedition to Naples I think they're doomed to either sell packets of tissues or wash windscreens at Italian road junctions until they've raised enough money for a train ticket to Germany and a job in a car-wash.

Most of those bobbing about on rubber rafts in the Mediterranean are victims of fraud. Upon arrival in Europe they have no means of support, no way home and no hope. Is it any wonder they turn to crime?

Killaroo
9th Jan 2018, 13:26
Then, of course, there is an African country which has received around 150,000 immigrants from a Western European country over the last 10 years. Many are, apparently, illegal and almost all were economic migrants escaping desperate economic conditions in their own country.

Is it Spain? :confused:

Krystal n chips
9th Jan 2018, 14:03
That 'last paragraph' refers to the Thread Starter's paragraph:Probably the period in history where the ordinary people of Africa suffered by far the least from greedy and murderous tribal chiefs and warlords was during the period of the British Empire and Colonial past where those administering it brought more peace and lawfulness to the lives of those ordinary people than they had experienced before or after. (It's surprising the strange, detached, view of the world, the past, etc., that one develops if one's view of that world is blinkered to the pages of the Guardian!)

Have you been over indulging in some past life regression therapy ?...or just simply delusional as to the unsavoury aspects of subjugating the world in the name of Empire.....and God, while we're at it. He usually gets a mention at the same time as Empire.

ex_matelot
9th Jan 2018, 14:39
You're not very au fait with African history..or Africa, are you Krystal?
There are a few modern day examples to look at as well. "before & after" if you will.

Define subjugating also.

Of course - you'll have no problem with the islamisation of various bits of Africa over the centuries??

Fareastdriver
9th Jan 2018, 16:12
you'll have no problem with the islamisation of various bits of Africa over the centuries??

There the ones we used to buy our slaves from.

Trossie
9th Jan 2018, 16:29
You're not very au fait with African history..or Africa, are you Krystal?
One of the requirements for being an 'Empire-hater' is to have no knowledge of actual history and to have no direct knowledge of the actual places involved.

It was/is somehow OK if African chiefs/warlords sold their own people to Arab slave-traders but it is somehow terrible if trans-Atlantic traders became involved in this centuries-old practice. (And if those Europeans had not become involved it is unlikely that the trade would have been opposed so vociferously so soon.) It was somehow OK for African chiefs/warlords to execute/murder their subjects in large swathes but it is somehow terrible if Europeans 'subjugate' them with colonial law and order. Then of course there is the death and violence that was foist upon so much of Africa and fueled by those darling socialists in the USSR and Communist China to oppose the 'evil' of the European empires that (barring the likes of the Germans and Belgians) had subjugated so many of those murderous chiefs/warlords. The important thing for empire-haters is that you must ignore, or even censor out, all mention of all that reality that was worse than the days of Empire, both before and after those days of Empire. Reality and truth are unimportant, maintaining an shaken opposition to Empire sweeps reality and truth aside. And you sneer at truth by calling it 'regression therapy'.

... the ones we used to buy our slaves from. Bin Laden was recorded referring to black Africans as 'slaves', long, long, long after Europeans had abolished the trade; some things are still quite ingrained in some cultures.

Um... lifting...
9th Jan 2018, 16:35
Is it Spain?

Close, but no.

Nigerian Expat Outlaw
9th Jan 2018, 17:01
Close, but no.

Morocco ?

NEO

Um... lifting...
9th Jan 2018, 17:33
Morocco ?

No. I guessed it right off and confirmed it with a quick googling. The Western European country is not Spain, and the African country is not Morocco.

Trim Stab
9th Jan 2018, 17:43
A few years ago there was a comprehensive study done in the UK of performance of children of different ethnic backgrounds in UK schools. The study went to considerable length to discount social background of parents and upbringing environment. The study found that ethnic Asian (particularly Chinese) children consistently performed best in UK schools, followed by ethnic Caucasian, followed by ethnic Afro-Caribbean. But one of the most significant findings is that Asian children still outperformed other children whatever their socio-economic background. What this study indicates is that Asian immigrants are able to integrate - whereas Afro-Caribbean children cannot.

Moreover, there are numerous studies in European countries that show that first generation African immigrants tend to integrate well because they recognise the advantages they have been given. The problems arise in 2nd and 3rd generations which are effectively left behind in education and the employment market, and so have an increased temptation to resort to crime.

These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.

Trim Stab
9th Jan 2018, 18:40
"I have spent almost two decades working in Africa and these people are utterly contemptible - totally greedy, venal, with no shame whatsoever to crush their fellow human beings for personal gain. They are centuries removed from any civilisations in Europe or Asia."

Just because some of us have spent a long time working in Africa, that is no reason to condemn all expatriates, "these people," in the same terms.

Some of us take care to treat Africans with a modicum of respect! Other expats, sure, they can go a bit mad being given a lot of power over others for the first time in their no-account lives, but that is not all of us. Some of us do manage to re-integrate into "civilizations in Europe or Asia." Other expatriates such as yourself, Trim Stab, do stay that way after having "gone bush," but then you may find bad people in all societies.

I would suggest getting professional help with your obvious problems, Trim Stab, instead of assuming that all expats share them.

I'll take you up on that. I work in Africa because I do a very technical aviation and engineering job which is well beyond the technical ability of the indigenous people to do. Yes, there are a very small number of indigenous people who might be able to do my job - but the opportunities available to those outliers here is so high that they prefer to take other avenues in life (usually in politics where they can steal billions..). There are just not enough locals intelligent enough to do the high tech jobs in Africa.

As you and others have written, there are many local people who are decent, hard-working and even could be categorised as honest by European standards. For example, I can now trust my driver (after a few years of training and education) not to inflate any receipt for fuel or car-repair by 100% in order to share a kick-back with the mechanic...

However, what totally disgusts me in Africa is how Africans systematically take advantage of others weaker than themselves, in the most malevolent, despicable ways. Their society is deeply heirarchical, feudal and materialistic. A common sight on African roads are "VIP convoys" with armed police escort, racing through towns and villages at high speed for the security of the "VIPS". If a child happens to get run-over in a village - these people will not stop - that would be "too dangerous" for the VIP...

Another example at the opposite end of the social scale to show how pervasive venal manipulation is in Africa. Some family friends here employ a Filipina maid as nanny to their toddler. The other maid (a local, who was employed for house cleaning duties and had been with the family for many years) blackmailed the Fiilipina maid by threatening to kill the toddler and blame her unless she agreed to be pimped out to the African maid's African clients. Can you imagine how much distress that caused to the Filipina maid?

I could go on with plenty of examples of crude African manipulation of anybody weaker than themselves - but these would be distractions that from the simple fact that Africans (and perhaps Australian Aborigines) are the only people on our planet who have never developed any theology. By theology, I don't mean religion (though theology is often codified through religion) but a social discipline and wisdom which allows society to develop and advance in an orderly fashion to the benefit of all.

USA/Brazil have been struggling to integrate their substantial Afro-Caribbean population for nearly 200 years and are still having problems with their underachievement in the employment market and over-achievement in social burden. Europe has been struggling for mostly 50 years or so with the same results - Afro-Caribbeans are difficult to employ (without "affirmative action") and contribute disproportionately to social burden (welfare, crime). It has been very interesting to read the "contributions" to Australian society of recent African migrants as I was not aware of these reports until re-reading this thread. By contrast, all these countries have had Sino-Asian immigration from China/Korea/Japan who have very successfully integrated and are nor very productive members of society. US high tech industry has disproportionately high numbers of Sino-Asian immigrants - go to see the Sydney Opera or Symphony and you will see disproportionate number of Asians contributing to Australian art and music - to give just some two random and diverse examples.

And to answer another responder - yes, it is perhaps true that recent first-generation immigrants to UK from Eastern Europe (particularly Albania and Rumania) have possibly contributed disproportionately to crime. But their descendants rapidly integrate and within a generation have no higher social burden than the norm.

Personally, I would really encourage immigration from former British Sino-Asian colonies (particularly Hong-Kong, Singapore) because these people will massively enrich the UK. Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly unattractive for them to come here as their societies race ahead and ours goes backwards...

These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist". The almost uncontrollable illegal immigration of Africans to Europe is going to have serious social implications for Europe unless it is halted.

megan
10th Jan 2018, 00:09
By theology, I don't mean religion (though theology is often codified through religion) but a social discipline and wisdom which allows society to develop and advance in an orderly fashion to the benefit of all.
Trim Stab, the Australian Aborigine in their native state have an extremely strict code of behaviour, transgression of which can, depending on the misdemeanour, result in severe repercussions. They also have a code of belief, the "Dreamtime".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime

Listening to the elderly talk, those who have maintained the ways old, I think could teach us a great lesson in how to live in harmony with each other and the earth. It is rather patronising to think that the white mans advances in science etc make him stand out above other races. I often think the Aborigine in his native state is the smartest of the lot of us. Sorry I don't have the writing skills to do them, the Aborigine, justice. White society has destroyed the Aborigine.

Mike Flynn
10th Jan 2018, 01:00
These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.

That might be because they do not have any African immigration.:ok:

Krystal n chips
10th Jan 2018, 04:54
A few years ago there was a comprehensive study done in the UK of performance of children of different ethnic backgrounds in UK schools. The study went to considerable length to discount social background of parents and upbringing environment. The study found that ethnic Asian (particularly Chinese) children consistently performed best in UK schools, followed by ethnic Caucasian, followed by ethnic Afro-Caribbean. But one of the most significant findings is that Asian children still outperformed other children whatever their socio-economic background. What this study indicates is that Asian immigrants are able to integrate - whereas Afro-Caribbean children cannot.

Moreover, there are numerous studies in European countries that show that first generation African immigrants tend to integrate well because they recognise the advantages they have been given. The problems arise in 2nd and 3rd generations which are effectively left behind in education and the employment market, and so have an increased temptation to resort to crime.

These uncomfortable statistics absolutely must be addressed in our future immigration policy if Europe is to remain competitive with China/Japan - who largely do not have problems with African immigration.

So lets summarise this then.

You are, as you modestly choose to define yourself, the "cleverest man in the whole of Africa ".

So clever in fact you are infatuated with discredited pseudoscience .....

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-9-most-influential-works-of-scientific-racism-rank-1575543279

Although thus far you've missed out that other favourite, phrenology, which, given your self proclaimed intelligence and expertise, is possibly just as well.

You've been in Africa for nearly 20 years, yet loathe the Continent and the population but, strangely, have never felt the compulsion to leave.

You see, irrespective of the location or context, be this work and / or social, most of us don't stay in locations or with people we don't like if we can avoid doing so.

The reason for your staying couldn't, and I know it's an unsavoury term, possibly be........money......could it ? I think we can safely rule out altruism and philanthropy after all.

Or there again, like others on here, possibly you are enjoying some form of regressive fantasy, the fantasy being the perpetuity of the British Empire ( pristine copy of the Mail with a quick snorter of Gordon's to compliment the full English brekkie, with a bit of kedgeree for variation ) served every day .

And thus to this little gem....

" These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist

Oh absolutely top hole and spot on there old boy what ! After all, the English language is a constantly evolving medium and new words, terms and phrases are appearing all the time.

What, for example, do you have in mind to replace..... bigot and racist ?...both of which are succinct and definitive of the personal traits of those to whom they apply.

Espada III
10th Jan 2018, 06:15
But instead of answering his points, you insult him....

He might not be 100% accurate, but there is a lot of truth in what he says. How do you respond to those specific points which those of us living in the UK see daily?

Metro man
10th Jan 2018, 06:47
In terms of intelligence it goes like this:
1. Asians
2. Jews
3. Whites
4. Blacks
5. Hispanics
With the Australian aborigines and Kalahari bushmen being in last place.

Chinese and Jews tend to stick in their own communities but are generally highly successful immigrants.

In the UK, prison kitchens are set up to provide halal catering as the muslin population is heavily over represented behind bars. Kosher food is outsourced as there are so few Jews doing time it isn’t worth providing for them in house.

B Fraser
10th Jan 2018, 06:48
Mr Chips,

Have you spent much time in Africa ? I have been fortunate to travel to most corners of the planet however I have only seen the immediate aftermath of one murder. It was in broad daylight in one of the most upmarket streets in Capetown.

Go figure.

Pontius Navigator
10th Jan 2018, 07:53
If Empire was bad and metamorphosed into Commonwealth, which would also seem to be bad, how come so many former colonies stay in the Commonwealth?

Ireland is not in the Commonwealth yet enjoys a special relationship with Great Britain. It even has some Royal institutions.

India still has political divisions over former British rule, but, interestingly, in one city extension to the police HQ in a utilitarian style had the be replaced in neoclassical style after public protest.

Krystal n chips
10th Jan 2018, 08:20
But instead of answering his points, you insult him....

He might not be 100% accurate, but there is a lot of truth in what he says. How do you respond to those specific points which those of us living in the UK see daily?

I have answered his points, at least as politely as I can and I can't see any insults therein. And I also live in the UK by the way.

B Fraser....."time in Africa "......short answer is no.

I did, however, as I've said before have an Uncle ( Lloyd Watkins, wildlife vet, No 2 on "Operation Noah" gets a mention in the book "Okavango " who did spend some considerable time over there.....until he got sick and tired of the white racism and left. Personal friend of this gentleman as well....President Seretse Khama who set a precedent as I'm sure you are aware.

Also had a cousin who went to S.A. he was a coppersmith, and he left for the same reason

Must be a genetic family trait...being liberal and anti-racist ......not forgetting reading the Guardian before one of the chaps mentions it.

ex_matelot
10th Jan 2018, 08:30
So to summarise then -you don't know. You're just batting an opinion you think you ought to hold and defend.

Krystal n chips
10th Jan 2018, 08:37
So to summarise then -you don't know. You're just batting an opinion you think you ought to hold and defend.

I would have thought the unpalatable context of Trim Stabs posts was abundantly clear...and warrants an opinion accordingly.

ex_matelot
10th Jan 2018, 08:50
Just because something is unpalatable - does not make it wrong.
It was once too politically unpalatable to acknowledge many things - asian grooming gangs for example.

You no doubt have misgivings about the MET police Op Trident too - set up as a necessity based on "the real situation" as opposed to obfuscation and navel gazing.

funfly
10th Jan 2018, 09:17
I was in Nigeria at the time the ‘Roots’ book was published and there were many black americans visiting from the US. Many on arrival announced that they were ‘African’ but it did not take them long to change this to “I’m an American”. as soon as they realised just what the indigenous population was really like.
Trim Stab’s view is-typical of ex pats I met in my many years in Africa and cannot be ignored and agrees with my own observations although I might not be brave enough to say them myself. Reporting to my UK firm from Africa I was unable to give a true picture to them simply because they wouldnt accept the truth, they had no idea of the reality of life across this continent. Even today I generally refrain from comments about how it really was.

Pontius Navigator
10th Jan 2018, 09:30
Read novels by Tony Park. He is not racist and many of his characters are black. He draws a good picture that certainly shows the differences.

ex_matelot
10th Jan 2018, 09:41
I wonder if those who refuse to acknowledge certain traits would be happy for quite a lot discussed in the "you know you are in Africa when..." thread, were to become he norm for us here in the western world?

Uplinker
10th Jan 2018, 09:56
These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist". The almost uncontrollable illegal immigration............ (my edit).

Well said. We should have tightly controlled immigration, (but not just focussing on Africans).

Nemrytter
10th Jan 2018, 10:08
What proof do you have that the UK does not have tightly controlled immigration?
(Note: Daily Mail/Guardian/Express do not count, I'm talked about evidence rather than fantasy)

ex_matelot
10th Jan 2018, 10:30
What proof do you have that the UK does not have tightly controlled immigration?
(Note: Daily Mail/Guardian/Express do not count, I'm talked about evidence rather than fantasy)

Er...where do you want to start?

Trossie
10th Jan 2018, 11:02
What proof do you have that the UK does not have tightly controlled immigration?
(Note: Daily Mail/Guardian/Express do not count, I'm talked about evidence rather than fantasy)
Derby man accused of planning UK terror attack 'thought he was allowed to download bomb-making instructions' - Derby Telegraph (http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derby-man-accused-planning-uk-753090) (NB: "He admitted that he was working illegally in Britain ...".)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/30/terror-attack-couple-dating-site-court-hears-munir-mohammed-rowaida-el-hassan
Couple guilty of homemade bomb terror attack plot - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-42607043) (NB: "The court was also told that he was using sophisticated false documents to access services and work in the UK illegally.")

Sorry, I had to include one Guardian report... ("Daily Mail/Guardian/Express do not count". Wow!! You are going to upset our resident Komrad with that one!!!)

sitigeltfel
10th Jan 2018, 18:03
What proof do you have that the UK does not have tightly controlled immigration?

They just gloss it over and call it "asylum".

Jack D
10th Jan 2018, 18:19
Sophisticated false documents ? A bit of a worry, where does the money come from to pay the expert forgers and where do they they come from ? not from the all too familiar problem areas/ cultures that’s for sure ..

Argonautical
10th Jan 2018, 18:32
Trim Stab's post forgot to mention how cruel Africans are to animals. As a general rule, they don't seem to have any empathy for them at all.

Pontius Navigator
10th Jan 2018, 18:57
In Spain we saw some Nigerian, wives of, imperiously ordering the Spanish cafe owner as if he was a servant. OTOH a look, open eyes, a nod, and more coffee arrived as they still waited.

It is culture. You can't change people overnight. Same way that you can legislate against racism, sexism, whatever but you can't change minds in the short term as politicos in veno veritas prove time and again.

finfly1
10th Jan 2018, 21:37
So lets summarise this then.

You are, as you modestly choose to define yourself, the "cleverest man in the whole of Africa ".

So clever in fact you are infatuated with discredited pseudoscience .....

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-9-most-influential-works-of-scientific-racism-rank-1575543279

Although thus far you've missed out that other favourite, phrenology, which, given your self proclaimed intelligence and expertise, is possibly just as well.

You've been in Africa for nearly 20 years, yet loathe the Continent and the population but, strangely, have never felt the compulsion to leave.

You see, irrespective of the location or context, be this work and / or social, most of us don't stay in locations or with people we don't like if we can avoid doing so.

The reason for your staying couldn't, and I know it's an unsavoury term, possibly be........money......could it ? I think we can safely rule out altruism and philanthropy after all.

Or there again, like others on here, possibly you are enjoying some form of regressive fantasy, the fantasy being the perpetuity of the British Empire ( pristine copy of the Mail with a quick snorter of Gordon's to compliment the full English brekkie, with a bit of kedgeree for variation ) served every day .

And thus to this little gem....

" These issues do need to be debated and not just denounced as "racist

Oh absolutely top hole and spot on there old boy what ! After all, the English language is a constantly evolving medium and new words, terms and phrases are appearing all the time.

What, for example, do you have in mind to replace..... bigot and racist ?...both of which are succinct and definitive of the personal traits of those to whom they apply.

Finally, an answer to a puzzle of some weeks or months duration. Why do SO many posters here, whom I greatly admire and respect for their intelligence and knowledge, choose to put this entity on 'ignore'.

parabellum
10th Jan 2018, 22:01
This book, 'Out of America, really upset all the militant Black Power organisations in the USA, the author said that, having visited and toured Africa, he was so grateful his family had been transported to the USA and he was able to grow up as an African American and not just an African, he found the sickening racism of the blacks towards others quite unbelievable having previously believed the myths about racism being a white on black thing:
https://www.amazon.com/Out-America-Black-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882

Metro man
10th Jan 2018, 22:27
Black on black is called tribalism. Centuries old hatreds still prevail. Back in the early 1980s in Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe ordered his army into Matabeleland and the resulting genocide claimed 20 000 lives. His Shona tribe had lived in fear of the Matabele for generations. Once he had control over the military he wasted little time in settling old scores.

Google "Gukurahundi" for further information.

parabellum
10th Jan 2018, 23:57
Yes, that is understood Metro man. I didn't explain very well that the point the author makes in his book is he had not believed that blacks could be racist towards whites until he saw it for himself, Zimbabwe being a classic example.