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LowNSlow
2nd Jan 2018, 15:27
This kind of process should soon be popping up all over the world to help reduce future pollution levels and clean up the current mess in the seas and reduce our dependence on landfill. Hopefully......

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-05/turning-plastic-to-oil-u-k-startup-sees-money-in-saving-oceans

Converting Plastic to Oil (http://www.plastic2oil.com/site/home)

Siting the plants should possibly be done better as putting them in the leafy countryside is obviously unpopular:

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/feb/20/campaigners-reject-plastics-to-fuel-projects-but-are-they-right

These guys Plane fuelled by plastic waste completes trailblazing flight ? EURACTIV.com (http://www.euractiv.com/section/transport/news/plane-fuelled-by-plastic-waste-completes-trailblazing-flight/) got David Attenborough's nod of approval apparently.

As an alternative to expensive and potentially environmentally damaging oil and gas exploration why not organise our recycling, mine our landfill sites and harvest the appalling Pacific Gyre of it's plastic content. If you give a waste product value it suddenly becomes a commodity.

KenV
2nd Jan 2018, 15:38
If the process to convert plastic into fuel results in fuel that is price competitive with fuel that comes from a standard refinery, you can be sure that it will be used. Sadly, such fuel from plastic is currently not price competitive. In any event, the enviro purists will argue that fuel from recycled plastics emits just as much CO2 as regular fuel, and that fuel alters the climate which in turn is leading to the death of our planet. So for them, not a solution at all.

Pontius Navigator
2nd Jan 2018, 15:51
To offset a high cost of plastic fuel production, consider the cost of alternative disposal.

KenV
2nd Jan 2018, 16:00
To offset a high cost of plastic fuel production, consider the cost of alternative disposal.There's theory, and there's reality. Consider the reality:

It costs X to dispose of plastic.
It costs Y to turn plastic into fuel.

Who is going to pay X to reduce the price of Y by X amount.

In other words, avoiding the cost of plastic disposal does not magically reduce the cost of plastic to fuel conversion by that avoided cost. They are unrelated.

Put another way: "a penny saved is a penny earned" is only true within the same household. If your neighbor saves a penny, you don't earn it.

Capn Notarious
2nd Jan 2018, 16:11
Where there is trash is cash.
A nationwide standardised set of bins for plastic recycling?

megan
2nd Jan 2018, 17:41
A couple of states in Oz you can return certain plastic containers (drink), aluminium cans (soft drink, beer), bottles (drink, beer) and some cardboard (fruit juice, small milk) containers to the recycle depot and get ten cents per item payment. Probably worth about $150 per year in our household - goes to the grandkids piggy bank. If I can just get a refund for wine bottles.

G-CPTN
2nd Jan 2018, 17:52
During our sojourn in Denmark in the 1980s, drink cans were banned and the glass bottles were subject to a returnable deposit.
Whilst most consumers returned their bottles, teenagers actively collected those bottles that had been discarded - with the result that beaches and country lanes were kept clear of bottles (and cans - as they weren't permitted).

Fareastdriver
2nd Jan 2018, 18:28
Used to happen in the UK once upon a time.

zed3
2nd Jan 2018, 18:40
Lived 42 years in NL returned to The Island four years ago. Since about 15 years ago, there, all household, non recyclable rubbish was collected in a bin. ALL plastic, everything plastic down to the minutest article was bagged, collected and recycled, how it was rescycled, I don't know, but it was. Glass and cans were all delt with via collection containers, separated and delivered by us, the user. One was encouraged to compost all uncooked food waste. It worked well. Upon returning to The Island I was astounded to see the difference between councils of recycling rules. Also these autonomous bodies seemed to have little understanding of logic and the afore mentioned recycling. It comes down to investment, thinking, education and how that is brought over to the taxpayer. I cannot understand why our UK powers that be, local and national, cannot come up with solutions... other than ban... fine or confuse. Harrumph.

Lantern10
2nd Jan 2018, 18:56
Overheard on the radio this morning that in 10 years there will be more plastic in our oceans than fish.
If this is true we should be collectively ashamed for allowing it to happen.

ORAC
2nd Jan 2018, 19:04
Little reported is that over 95% of all the plastic in the seas comes from the outflow of 10 rivers. Palpipate your bleeding hearts and have the kiddy wrinkles collect their scraps - but it will do damn all good. Just like trying to cut our carbon output whilst China is adding the equivalent of the entire UK output every single week.

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/95-ocean-plastic-delivered-just-10-rivers/

Sallyann1234
2nd Jan 2018, 20:14
Little reported is that over 95% of all the plastic in the seas comes from the outflow of 10 rivers. Palpipate your bleeding hearts and have the kiddy wrinkles collect their scraps - but it will do damn all good. Just like trying to cut our carbon output whilst China is adding the equivalent of the entire UK output every single week.
Well their factories need a lot of energy to make all those products we are so anxious to buy.
If we started making the stuff ourselves we'd be churning out the carbon over here.

Ogre
2nd Jan 2018, 21:00
A couple of states in Oz you can return certain plastic containers (drink), aluminium cans (soft drink, beer), bottles (drink, beer) and some cardboard (fruit juice, small milk) containers to the recycle depot and get ten cents per item payment. Probably worth about $150 per year in our household - goes to the grandkids piggy bank. If I can just get a refund for wine bottles.

There was a joke running around a few years ago that the return on a $1000 worth of beer was better than the return on a years worth of superannuation, and you got the additional side effect of being drunk!

On the subject of plastic waste, I seem to recall a very interesting sci-fi book called "Mutant 59, the plastic eater" which is still available. It featured a bacteria which ate plastic, but unfortunately (as all good stories go) it got loose and started eating everything. Seeing as the book was written in the early 70's, the amount of plastic in the world was considerably less but there were a number of hair raising episodes in the book where the plastic eating bacteria got onto aircraft and other forms of transport. It all looked bleak for civilisation in the end, so I hope that reality doesn't follow the story....

megan
2nd Jan 2018, 21:57
Did you know those paper/cardboard coffee cups you get from your favourite take away on the way to work, or whatever, are lined with a very thin film of plastic similar to glad wrap, making it impossible for the cup to be recycled. Chap in Oz is developing a process to get rid of the plastic, so the cup can go in the paper/cardboard recycle stream. Not perfected as yet.

A320ECAM
2nd Jan 2018, 22:02
Well it is mainly buggering India dumping all the plastic in the rivers and seas!

Tankertrashnav
2nd Jan 2018, 23:45
megan - why do people even have to buy takeaway coffee - I cant remember the last time I did it. If I want a coffee I go and sit down and drink it out of a proper china cup. And what about all those people walking around cities clutching plastic bottles of water as if they were crossing the Gobi Desert?

Pappa Smurf
2nd Jan 2018, 23:47
Saw a photo the other day in Bali of a beach strewn with plastic etc.I bet if there was the equivilant of a 10cent deposit that tourists or whoever couldn't care less about,then the beach would nearly be clean of such rubbish as kids or beggars earn some money.

Ascend Charlie
3rd Jan 2018, 03:51
Well it is mainly buggering India dumping all the plastic in the rivers and seas!
Have a look at "God" on Netflix with Morgan Freeman, he goes to India and you see the astounding garbage they toss in the rivers, varying from food "sacrifices" to various gods, all the way to dead bodies which have to go into the Ganges. That river is stunningly putrid. And it won't stop, because their religion tells them to do it.

sitigeltfel
3rd Jan 2018, 07:40
Sky News have been on righteous crusade about plastic pollution for the past year, but still take Łmillions in advertising revenue from the companies that produce it.

Hypocrisy of the worst kind.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 08:05
And what about all those people walking around cities clutching plastic bottles of water as if they were crossing the Gobi Desert?

To wash down all the pollutants that they breathe in.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 08:13
KenV, at one level you are right, but if my council can collect and sell my rubbish as cost neutral my council tax shouldn't rise. I can afford more expensive plastic fuel.

OTOH, if they have to pay more for landfill then my tax rises, but my fuel cost doesn't.

Well that is the macro theory. Of course we know the council would pocket the saving. When the Icelandic banks crashed we learnt that the district council cash reserve equivalent to two years council tax. Why, with a legal licence to collect our money?

Sallyann1234
3rd Jan 2018, 11:04
Have a look at "God" on Netflix with Morgan Freeman, he goes to India and you see the astounding garbage they toss in the rivers, varying from food "sacrifices" to various gods, all the way to dead bodies which have to go into the Ganges. That river is stunningly putrid. And it won't stop, because their religion tells them to do it.
Nothing wrong with chucking bodies in the river to be washed out to sea. They are biologically degradable, and food for other organisms.
Better than taking up land space for graveyards, or using energy to incinerate them.

meadowrun
3rd Jan 2018, 11:28
Just don't drink the water. And bathing........well.......

KenV
4th Jan 2018, 12:51
KenV, at one level you are right, but if my council can collect and sell my rubbish as cost neutral my council tax shouldn't rise. I can afford more expensive plastic fuel."Being able" to afford plastic fuel and actually buying plastic fuel are two very different things. If you had more disposable income, would you put that extra income down your car's fuel tank? Or buy a bigger TV? Or some other gadget......made largely of plastic.[/QUOTE]

Pontius Navigator
4th Jan 2018, 12:54
Or if your benefits were increased would you buy food or fags.

Answers on the back of a fag packet.

At least you have a choice

NutLoose
4th Jan 2018, 14:59
I do not recycle plastics, mine hopefully goes into landfill, I am a firm believer that in the future when the oil supply is next to expired, plastics will become a valuable commodity and ancient landfill sites will be mined to reclaim the valuable plastics that they hold and recycled using technology we haven't touched on yet..

NutLoose
4th Jan 2018, 15:02
Nothing wrong with chucking bodies in the river to be washed out to sea. They are biologically degradable, and food for other organisms.
Better than taking up land space for graveyards, or using energy to incinerate them.

Except they have a nasty habit of turning up amongst the bones sold to the west to manufacture Gelatin...... enjoy that Pork pie.

treadigraph
4th Jan 2018, 15:04
Except they have a nasty habit of turning up amongst the bones sold to the west to manufacture Gelatin...... enjoy that Pork pie.

You owe me a new keyboard - and its not contaminated with coffee! :}

NutLoose
4th Jan 2018, 15:12
Human remains in cattle feed may have caused mad cow epidemic - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1497414/Human-remains-in-cattle-feed-may-have-caused-mad-cow-epidemic.html)


http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,844088,00.html

Indian bones sell well in Europe. Ground up, packed in bags and shipped by sea, they are an ingredient in products from Belgian glue to the yellow gelatin that French gourmets fancy with their pâté. Little matter that lately bone exporters have reportedly been fleshing out their shipments of animal bones with human skeletal remains fished from the Ganges downstream from the funeral ghats at Benares.

treadigraph
4th Jan 2018, 15:19
I'll have a few pints tonight and I'll have forgotten about it in the morning (please don't tell me that Thatchers put gelatin in their apple products!).

meadowrun
4th Jan 2018, 15:51
I am very strenuously refraining from typing my opinions on religion and India and how to clear cut an entire country.


Most of the bodies ?cremated? and sent down the Ganges are half burnt because wood is very scarce and expensive.