View Full Version : 12 Sqn Typhoon
Defence Minister reveals new RAF Squadron at Qatar event (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defence-minister-reveals-new-raf-squadron-at-qatar-event)
The number plate of a new Typhoon squadron set to integrate Qatari personnel was revealed by Defence Minister Harriett Baldwin at a reception to celebrate the country’s national day in London today.
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson was in Doha last weekend, where he agreed a package of training and co-operation between the British and Qatari Air Forces which will see them working together more regularly as part of the multi-billion pound deal to supply the country with 24 Typhoon aircraft. Defence Minister Harriett Baldwin expanded on that agreement at a State of Qatar National Day reception in London today. She revealed that a new UK-based Typhoon joint squadron will be called No. 12 squadron, and that it will temporarily integrate Qatari personnel, including pilots and ground-crew based at RAF Coningsby, Lincolnshire......
The Qataris will not be a permanent part of the squadron, but will be integrated ahead of the delivery of the Typhoon aircraft. The move will provide the country with valuable joint frontline experience on an RAF Typhoon Squadron and speed up their preparation for when their own jets are delivered........ The new 12 squadron is currently operating Tornados, and will transition to the future Typhoon force......
.....and in a couple of years the RAF instructors will be working for/in Qatar as civilians.
Reported/rumoured elsewhere that the Sqn will work up in the UK then deploy/move to Qatar in time to provide AD cover over the 2022 World Cup.
theloudone
2nd Jan 2018, 18:00
Thank goodness they don`t rely upon A400M (70 Sqn) !!! To support them
Melchett01
2nd Jan 2018, 20:30
Please forgive the embarrassingly dense question, but I am well and truly out of the Light Blue environment in the diaspora, so am not up to date with number plates etc
I'm assuming 12 are still operating GR4s out of Marham along with 9 & 31? Is this move one of the 2 extra Typhoon sqns that were announced in the SDSR that would be using early batch jets in the AD role? Or have I missed something else whilst buried under staff work and spreadsheets? :\
Just another question........why the number 12 and not a fighter squadron number?
Pure Pursuit
3rd Jan 2018, 08:36
Perhaps we are aligning sqn numbers.
Are not sitting with 1-18 active now? Albeit with 16 being a training sqn. I may be incorrect.
It’s simple, makes sense and takes away the inevitable bickering when a new sqn is on the cards. Personnaly, I really don’t see the point in people insisting that 43 or, 111 for example are given precedence.
flighthappens
3rd Jan 2018, 09:34
Perhaps we are aligning sqn numbers.
Are not sitting with 1-18 active now? Albeit with 16 being a training sqn. I may be incorrect.
It’s simple, makes sense and takes away the inevitable bickering when a new sqn is on the cards. Personnaly, I really don’t see the point in people insisting that 43 or, 111 for example are given precedence.
The RAF, certainly Typhoon, could do with having less squadrons of more people...
Martin the Martian
3rd Jan 2018, 09:43
Tradition and heritage, don'cha know? No.4 is a reserve squadron at Valley, No.17 is evaluating the Lightning and No.15 has disbanded.
How about using some of the very short lived squadron numbers from the World Wars, drawn at random? That would settle some of the arguments, and it would be nice to see the likes of, say Nos.197 or 274 or 530 Squadrons reformed for a a change. Plus, it will fool the enemy into thinking the RAF is much bigger than it actually is!:8
Dan Gerous
3rd Jan 2018, 11:44
Plus, it will fool the enemy into thinking the RAF is much bigger than it actually is!:8
What!, we don't actually have 617 Sqns. :\
Pure Pursuit
3rd Jan 2018, 12:29
Tradition and heritage, don'cha know? No.4 is a reserve squadron at Valley, No.17 is evaluating the Lightning and No.15 has disbanded.
How about using some of the very short lived squadron numbers from the World Wars, drawn at random? That would settle some of the arguments, and it would be nice to see the likes of, say Nos.197 or 274 or 530 Squadrons reformed for a a change. Plus, it will fool the enemy into thinking the RAF is much bigger than it actually is!:8
I didn’t realise that the GR4 OCU was gone...
Some heritage still exists, certainly in terms of the P8 Sqns coming online.
Completely agree on the point regarding Typhoon sqn manning. I can’t see how they’ll be able to avoid pooling engineering manning at some point.
What!, we don't actually have 617 Sqns. :\
Don't think we even have 617 aircraft...:O
PDR
Martin the Martian
4th Jan 2018, 09:13
What!, we don't actually have 617 Sqns. :\
Sssh!! Don't tell them that!
Martin the Martian
4th Jan 2018, 09:15
I didn’t realise that the GR4 OCU was gone...
Disbanded on 31 March 2017 sadly.
NutLoose
4th Jan 2018, 09:23
It is a rather neat way of hiding another squadron disbanding... even more cuts are coming and it appears the Army may no longer be blowing their own trumpet..
https://www.ft.com/content/0d614e8e-e0ea-11e7-a0d4-0944c5f49e46
Behind a paywall - give us a clue...
NutLoose
4th Jan 2018, 12:40
"The Ministry of Defence reportedly plans cuts to 14 ensembles as the UK government seeks savings that will avoid affecting frontline troops. Nobody would dispute that combat soldiers are more essential to defence than trumpeters yet military musicians represent a country’s face to the world."
Which does miss the point that they do deploy on ops
http://www.army.mod.uk/music/34495.aspx
haltonapp
4th Jan 2018, 17:42
Surely the only reason we have so many squadrons is to make posts for wing commanders and squadron leaders. Why else would we have two squadrons of Voyager aircraft for a usable fleet of nine aircraft?
To have the capability to surge operate all 14 airframes in a crisis sans civilian crew?
Vendee
4th Jan 2018, 20:23
To have the capability to surge operate all 14 airframes in a crisis sans civilian crew?
Which is what we did in GW1. 12 Tornado's manned by two squadrons, aircrew and groundcrew.
Melchett01
4th Jan 2018, 23:19
"The Ministry of Defence reportedly plans cuts to 14 ensembles as the UK government seeks savings that will avoid affecting frontline troops. Nobody would dispute that combat soldiers are more essential to defence than trumpeters yet military musicians represent a country’s face to the world."
Which does miss the point that they do deploy on ops
Musician on Ops - British Army Website (http://www.army.mod.uk/music/34495.aspx)
Exactly, and the way we are going will end up with a horribly divisive situation for Defence. Perceived ‘non-core’ roles will be cut from uniform and either made Reserve or contractor posts. The associated duties - Guard, deployments, weekend and extended hours requirements etc will however remain. Therefore you will end up with a smaller and smaller pool of military warfighters getting stitched constantly and a larger pool of limited commitment Reservists and contractors doing the ‘easy’ stuff. Doesn’t sound much like all of one force to me, but I guarantee this is the trajectory because we’ve already started down this route.
ExAscoteer
5th Jan 2018, 00:19
We started doing that 25+ years ago.
Melchett01
5th Jan 2018, 08:07
We started doing that 25+ years ago.
You can imagine how much further we are down that route then!
ExAscoteer
5th Jan 2018, 15:14
Indeed. The greatest indicator that things had gone too far was the forming of the MPGS.
Heathrow Harry
5th Jan 2018, 15:34
"Which does miss the point that they do deploy on ops"
Yes but better to have 100 fully trained infantrymen than 100 bandsmen who spend half their time on music - I'm sure they do their damnedest but the armed forces are about fighting strength not music
Red Line Entry
5th Jan 2018, 15:36
Vendee,
If you’re talking F3, then it was 18 aircraft, not 12, but not the entire manning from both sqns.
flighthappens
5th Jan 2018, 16:29
Surely the only reason we have so many squadrons is to make posts for wing commanders and squadron leaders. Why else would we have two squadrons of Voyager aircraft for a usable fleet of nine aircraft?
Agreed, appears it is to feed the machine.
Strange given how often you hear of shortages of experience and supervision, both on a engineering and aircrew point.
Melchett01
5th Jan 2018, 16:53
"Which does miss the point that they do deploy on ops"
Yes but better to have 100 fully trained infantrymen than 100 bandsmen who spend half their time on music - I'm sure they do their damnedest but the armed forces are about fighting strength not music
If memory serves, they deploy in ancillary support roles - stretcher barers, drivers etc. I’d rather we kept the 100 fully trained infantrymen closing with and killing the enemy than driving ambulances around. They do have their uses beyond a good bit of pipes and drums, they just aren’t always immediately apparent until they aren’t there to perform them.
Saintsman
5th Jan 2018, 17:14
Lots of Squadrons is actually forward thinking from someone at MOD.
When the time comes for the next round of cuts, they can easily disband a squadron, whilst sneakily moving the aircraft to those remaining.
The headlines will show that the number of squadrons have been reduced...
(Not that I really believe someone at MOD is capable of forward thinking)
Pontius Navigator
5th Jan 2018, 18:25
The RAF, certainly Typhoon, could do with having less squadrons of more people...
Isn't that fewer sqns?
Simplythebeast
5th Jan 2018, 19:02
Sssh!! Don't tell them that!
Do we have 617 personnel?
Isn't 617 how many pilots we will be short by 2020?
So things will have got better?
Well that confirms the timeframe for training and deployment to Qatar.
Qatar-U.K. operational squadron to secure skies during World Cup 2022 (http://www.gulf-times.com/story/578550/Qatar-UK-joint-squadron-to-secure-skies-during-202)
A joint Qatar-UK operational squadron will play a vital role in securing the skies during the FIFA 2022 Qatar World Cup, HE the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of State for Defence Affairs Dr Khalid bin Mohamed al-Attiyah has said. The establishment of the joint operational squadron was agreed between the two countries in December last year.
Delivering a speech at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), he said the squadron will ensure "mutual combat readiness, further our joint actions in combating terrorism and advance our strategic efforts towards the stability of our region and beyond". The minister said: "This squadron will also play a vital role in securing our skies during the 2022 World Cup, which despite people's fruitless efforts, will be hosted by Qatar".
He said his current visit to London was aimed at further advancing and solidifying Qatar-UK strategic military-to-military relationship. "We have recently signed a landmark defense cooperation agreement with the UK concerning the purchase of (24) Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft. This agreement builds on the historic friendship that joins both nations and further advances the strategic defence partnership that aims to serve our common security objectives."
He said RUSI has been a trusted partner in providing training courses to Qatari diplomats since 2014, and fondly recalled his days in the UK as a trainee fighter pilot. "It was here in the skies above RAF valley in Wales that I flew as a young fighter pilot in training.".......
Wander00
19th Jan 2018, 13:35
PN - Depends whether you shop in Tesco or Waitrose. Some time ago Waitrose changed the signs over the small basket tills to "Fewer than x items" from "Less than...."
overstress
20th Jan 2018, 19:49
Waitrose aside, if you can count it, it's fewer. Otherwise less. :sad: