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annakm
1st Jan 2018, 16:07
Visiting friends in the UK for Christmas/New Year. Returning to LGW but became stuck in stationary traffic this afternoon on M3. Is it me or does anyone else get severely hacked off with the chancers who smugly hammer it up the emergency lane to bypass the queue and then push back into the line. Pity I was returning a hire car otherwise it would have been so tempting to squeeze them out.

Surely this is totally illegal?

Trossie
1st Jan 2018, 16:48
You said it all with "Returning to LGW...". What a horrible part of the world to drive in with so many unpleasant drivers. Any roads within about 100 miles of London are best avoided!

WingSlinger
1st Jan 2018, 16:54
Did you mean "overtaking". In my part of the world "undertaking" means a completely different thing, which could come into play if one is overtaking in a wrong lane...

Blues&twos
1st Jan 2018, 17:52
Yes, Annakm, driving along the hard shoulder (unless it is signed as an open driving lane) is illegal in the UK.
Best thing to do is let the illegal drivers get on with it, the plethora of CCTV cameras should pick them up.
I made the mistake of "blocking" back in the 90's after having three cars queue-jump past me on the hard shoulder of the M4. The fourth car, which got briefly stuck behind me was actually an unmarked police car. They went past me but I felt a right idiot and wouldn't do it again.

angels
1st Jan 2018, 17:53
Happened earlier this year to a friend of mine on the South Circular when she was in a traffic jam and undertaken by a car in the bus lane. When the traffic started moving, a couple of hundreds yard further up she was delighted to see the guy had been tugged and the cop was issuing the ticket to the driver outside the car on the pavement so passing motorists could hurl abuse at the cretin.

You may like these clips. Especially the one just after 2:15.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKZ9mkzRfeQ

ehwatezedoing
1st Jan 2018, 20:44
Visiting friends in the UK for Christmas/New Year. Returning to LGW but became stuck in stationary traffic this afternoon on M3. Is it me or does anyone else get severely hacked off with the chancers who smugly hammer it up the emergency lane to bypass the queue and then push back into the line. Pity I was returning a hire car otherwise it would have been so tempting to squeeze them out.

Surely this is totally illegal?
This kind of situation yes.

What I’ve seen once while stuck in traffic is people trying to “squeeze” and bloc a tow truck using the emergency lane to bypass traffic!
Zero brain for doing so as tow truck was presumably trying to access an accident or broken down vehicle site causing the jam.

I also happen to know someone how drives tow trucks for a living and he said that he had this kind of situation happen a few time. Beacon lights on and honking not changing anyhing.

oldpax
2nd Jan 2018, 00:41
Normal practice here in Thailand ,especially during the holiday season when drivers will try and make 5 lanes!!I will post the accident stats for the new year period ,for example Friday 29th dec there were 90 deaths and 727 drunk drivers arrested!!People who die in hospital are not included in the statistics!!

mgahan
2nd Jan 2018, 04:30
Rank amateurs compared with Jakarta, particularly during Mudik.

MJG.

Krystal n chips
2nd Jan 2018, 05:51
Visiting friends in the UK for Christmas/New Year. Returning to LGW but became stuck in stationary traffic this afternoon on M3. Is it me or does anyone else get severely hacked off with the chancers who smugly hammer it up the emergency lane to bypass the queue and then push back into the line. Pity I was returning a hire car otherwise it would have been so tempting to squeeze them out.

Surely this is totally illegal?

It is totally illegal, but, here in the UK we have a surfeit of motoring morons who feel they have an exemption from the Road Traffic Act.

Commonly seen when in standing traffic and getting close to an exit, rather than wait, they will simply use the hard shoulder to get to the exit and when one does it, the herd instinct duly induces others to follow.

Can be seen UK wide, so it's far from confined to the South East ....based on the experience of somebody who "doesn't get out much "...allegedly.

KelvinD
2nd Jan 2018, 06:44
annakm: Which part of the M3 were you on? The last 12 miles or so, leading up to Junction 2 (M25) has no emergency lane. The old hard shoulder has been converted into a running lane and the emergency stop requirement is catered for by dedicated emergency only lay by areas.

ATNotts
2nd Jan 2018, 07:50
It is totally illegal, but, here in the UK we have a surfeit of motoring morons who feel they have an exemption from the Road Traffic Act.

Commonly seen when in standing traffic and getting close to an exit, rather than wait, they will simply use the hard shoulder to get to the exit and when one does it, the herd instinct duly induces others to follow.

Can be seen UK wide, so it's far from confined to the South East ....based on the experience of somebody who "doesn't get out much "...allegedly.

It stems from a number of factors, including crass road design, poor training, and too much traffic management, and when something does occur, taking too long to clear the closed lanes. All leads to frustration, and the kind of stupid behaviour witnessed by the OP. None of the factors I have mentioned excuse such behaviours one iota.

Most of us can look at the design of interchanges and in particular traffic islands that we use and ask just how people supposedly qualified in road design and traffic management can possible manufacture pigs in pokes to the extent that they appear to.

Trossie
2nd Jan 2018, 09:17
Someone asked about 'overtaking/undertaking'. 'Undertaking' is overtaking in the wrong lane, in Britain that is the left side.

What annakm asked about is totally illegal:

UK Highway Code:

Para 264 "You MUST ​​NOT ​drive on the hard shoulder except in an
emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers
in uniform or by signs."

Para 268 "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to
overtake."

Para 269 "​You MUST​​ NOT​ use the hard shoulder for overtaking."

Two points on this. There are a lot of drivers (and we could 'stereotype' to makes of car if you want!) who feel that they can just do as they want. There are also a lot of drivers on the roads in Britain who have never done a British driving test and probably don't know of the existence of the British Highway Code.

Sallyann1234
2nd Jan 2018, 09:25
annakm: Which part of the M3 were you on? The last 12 miles or so, leading up to Junction 2 (M25) has no emergency lane. The old hard shoulder has been converted into a running lane and the emergency stop requirement is catered for by dedicated emergency only lay by areas.
I suspect the OP meant the M23.
The other dangerous tactic there is to pass the gatwick taiback at high speed in the oustide lane, then swerve across the road, slam on the brakes and force a way into the front of the queue.

cavortingcheetah
2nd Jan 2018, 09:37
My goodness gracious, if you didn’t drive illegally in Johannesburg, while on the telephone, you’d never get anywhere. It doesn’t even help to wave a handgun out of the window any more, all the taxi minivan drivers and many of their passengers too are armed with AK 47s.

Grayfly
2nd Jan 2018, 09:38
There are also a lot of drivers on the roads in Britain who have never done a British driving test and probably don't know of the existence of the British Highway Code.

From Daily Telegraph 2016:
Nearly 70,000 potentially dangerous unlicensed drivers have been given “pointless” penalty points, new figures show.

Obviously a lot more who haven't been caught yet.

This probably explains a lot of what we see on the roads every day.

Krystal n chips
2nd Jan 2018, 09:41
" There are also a lot of drivers on the roads in Britain who have never done a British driving test and probably don't know of the existence of the British Highway Code.

Well of course there are. The UK does get a lot of tourists after all. And we get commercial vehicles as well. I am unaware of any requirement for these drivers to take a British driving test.

What other possible, and decidedly less than subtle inference, could you be making I wonder ?

And for ATNotts.....reference hold ups / time there's usually only one source....enter the "never fit and never will be for purpose"......the Highways Agency. Truly " World Class" when it comes to combing woeful incompetence and ineptitude..... in equal measure.

DType
2nd Jan 2018, 10:35
Have to confess to using the hard shoulder once to undertake, many years ago, to access the off slip (so no pushing back in). Well, it was a genuine emergency, I was very very late to catch my plane, but I made check in with seconds to spare. Unfortunately, my utterly unbelievable secretary had failed to make out the ticket for the new departure time following arrival of BST or GMT or whatever, and the check in lassie advised that I was exactly 59 minutes too late.
The lesson learned was "Never surrender the hire car keys until after you have checked in."

annakm
2nd Jan 2018, 11:26
annakm: Which part of the M3 were you on? The last 12 miles or so, leading up to Junction 2 (M25) has no emergency lane. The old hard shoulder has been converted into a running lane and the emergency stop requirement is catered for by dedicated emergency only lay by areas.


Hello Kelvin. I was stationary approaching Junction 4 (Camberley?) northbound. The warning displays were indicating a stranded vehicle which I would have assumed was on the emergency lane so even more reason for not using it inappropriately.

Sallyann1234
2nd Jan 2018, 12:04
Have to confess to using the hard shoulder once to undertake, many years ago, to access the off slip (so no pushing back in). Well, it was a genuine emergency, I was very very late to catch my plane, but I made check in with seconds to spare.
I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like a genuine emergency and I don't think the courts would accept it. If we all used the hard shoulder when we were late it would no longer be available for its intended purposes.

Pontius Navigator
2nd Jan 2018, 18:24
I suspect the OP meant the M23.
The other dangerous tactic there is to pass the gatwick taiback at high speed in the outside lane, then swerve across the road, slam on the brakes and force a way into the front of the queue.
Sallyann, I accept that the will be 'experienced' locals that will pull this trick as required. OTOH I am sure infrequent drivers can get caught in the wrong lane. True modern satnav should display distance to junction etc but you can still be caught out.

Years ago I was so caught with a the M25 tailback on A1M. In that case though made an instant replan to use the Woolwich Ferry.

Pace
2nd Jan 2018, 18:39
The hard shoulder is Taboo
As for undertaking ? That is normal in the USA with any lane available to pass
We have a problem where the third lane is supposed to be used for overtaking only yet is used for cruising
Hence I must admit if there is some wally going at 60 mph oblivious to five cars behind and the second lane is clear I will happily jump to the second lane undertake the lot using that lane

BirdmanBerry
2nd Jan 2018, 18:42
I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like a genuine emergency and I don't think the courts would accept it. If we all used the hard shoulder when we were late it would no longer be available for its intended purposes.

No but Alex Ferguson managed to get away with his poor excuse that he had a tummy bug and needed to get off the motorway to use a toilet. One rule for the rich, another for us mere plebs...

Slow Biker
2nd Jan 2018, 18:54
You have no control, so just ignore it; life is too short to get stressed over selfish ar*eholes on the road.

ShyTorque
2nd Jan 2018, 20:09
You have no control, so just ignore it; life is too short to get stressed over selfish ar*eholes on the road.

I agree, let them go and don't risk getting involved in their impending accident.

Rail Engineer
2nd Jan 2018, 21:01
The hard shoulder is Taboo
As for undertaking ? That is normal in the USA with any lane available to pass
We have a problem where the third lane is supposed to be used for overtaking only yet is used for cruising
Hence I must admit if there is some wally going at 60 mph oblivious to five cars behind and the second lane is clear I will happily jump to the second lane undertake the lot using that laneThat is OK but using any lane simply slows all traffic down. The US roads are pretty good by our standards but spoiled by the lack of driving discipline that sees morons doing 40/50 in the outside lane, forcing others to pass by on the inside.

DType
2nd Jan 2018, 21:36
SA
Yes, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I claimed an emergency, but I am not sure that a REAL emergency is defined anywhere in the Highway Code.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Jan 2018, 22:04
Yes, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I claimed an emergency, but I am not sure that a REAL emergency is defined anywhere in the Highway Code.
Claiming to be acting as an ambulance because you're rushing someone to hospital sometimes works in court and sometimes doesn't. I would imagine anything much less than that has very little chance.

M.Mouse
3rd Jan 2018, 08:07
OTOH I am sure infrequent drivers can get caught in the wrong lane. True modern satnav should display distance to junction etc but you can still be caught out.

What? You mean because they cannot read the 1 mile and ½ mile exit signs?

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 08:21
MM, if only the tailback is less than a mile. Try the A34 north bound to M40 junction. There is another junction further south where, with little warning, the two lane splits to north and east. It is different from a two lane with an exit. That can catch you out too.

Again, for the infrequent user the left/ahead/right lane markings on the road surface are often too late too.

andytug
3rd Jan 2018, 08:23
What? You mean because they cannot read the 1 mile and ½ mile exit signs?

Maybe, but mainly because they don't plan ahead and anticipate. There should never be a need for last minute manoeuvres.
People are too impatient, they would kill their first born to get their car in front of yours, even if in the end it saves them no time whatsoever.

Blacksheep
3rd Jan 2018, 12:43
There's a pair of EU Freedom of Movement residents who park their Roadside Recovery Truck opposite the T-junction where our side road joins the main road - which is a bus route. It's not actually illegal but the Highway Code says not to do it. Someone kindly offered to help them understand the Code by glueing copies of the associated page all over their windscreen. To no avail, after scraping it off they still park in the same spot, inconveniencing both their neighbours and the local bus drivers.

treadigraph
3rd Jan 2018, 12:52
. Someone kindly offered to help them understand the Code by glueing copies of the associated page all over their windscreen.

Cracking idea! Several cars locally that I could target with that one...

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Jan 2018, 13:15
There's a pair of EU Freedom of Movement residents who park their Roadside Recovery Truck opposite the T-junction where our side road joins the main road
How big is the truck? - I once suggested to some residents that they could discourage a coach being stored overnight on their residential road by parking their cars on the street, slightly less than a bus length apart. The bus went away.

Trossie
3rd Jan 2018, 15:24
" There are also a lot of drivers on the roads in Britain who have never done a British driving test and probably don't know of the existence of the British Highway Code."

Well of course there are. The UK does get a lot of tourists after all. And we get commercial vehicles as well. I am unaware of any requirement for these drivers to take a British driving test.

What other possible, and decidedly less than subtle inference, could you be making I wonder ?

...Nowt 'subtle' intended at all, dear chap! I intended to be as blunt with that one as possible.

When I drive as a tourist in France, or Canada, or anywhere else, I am expected to abide by their rules and I should know them. Likewise, tourists driving here should know ours. Drivers of commercial vehicles have absolutely no reason whatsoever for not knowing our rules. So bringing that up is twaddle.

But, we have a very, very high number of residents who gained their drivers licences elsewhere in the world and when they moved here simply had their licences exchanged for British licences without ever having looked at the British Highway Code. They gain their licences in places where driving cultures are very, very different from ours and the driving test are not the same as ours, yet they are issued with British driving licences without any check whatsoever about their understanding of the very different local roads and driving requirements.

Yes, a lot of those who undertake, drive on the hard shoulder, drive in the wrong lanes, etc., are plain morons. But a worrying number just do not know better when they should.

(And before any of the 'usual suspects' shout "racism" about my comments above, those comments also apply to family members, so that should snooker any such knee-jerk comments.)

KelvinD
3rd Jan 2018, 16:02
annakm: I drove that stretch of the M3 today and can confirm there is no emergency lane from Junction 4 to Junction 2. It doesn't detract though from the bad behaviour of the offender.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 16:58
Trossie, is that really true, change to British licence with no test? Certainly there may be a transition period where your foreign licence remains valid, but surely not a free exchange.

But even more pointless is awarding points and a driving ban for those that don't have a licence! Does this just enable more points and longer ban for a second offence - sorry I meant being caught for a second time.

There is also personation as all 'blanks' look the same. Daughter once had an applicant who presented his brother's educational certificates; he would have been 13 when he got them.

CloudHound
3rd Jan 2018, 17:04
Ah, good old para 268
Para 268 "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to
overtake."
What does the team think about this in relation to congested but slow moving motorway traffic?

Forget hard shoulder/emergency lane and the M25. We're all just pootling along at 40ish, sometimes slowing to a crawl, sometimes speeding up a bit.

No-one seems concerned that drivers to the left of them sometimes pull ahead, except once the congestion starts to ease and traffic resumes 'normal' speeds.

At what speed should drivers match traffic to the right and then let them pull ahead?

Blues&twos
3rd Jan 2018, 17:21
You can overtake on the left (not on the hard shoulder) if traffic in the other lanes is stationary or very slow moving and your lane isn't. I'll see if I can find the code which spells it out. I can't remember if it defines speeds, but I suspect it doesn't.

Carry0nLuggage
3rd Jan 2018, 17:27
It's always wise to read the whole thing. I thought there was a reference to traffic moving in queues; what constitutes a queue?

So I checked some old copies and online. The wording hasn't changed since it was rule 242 in the 1999 edition.

Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. No cheating!:= Note it's a Do not, not MUST not.

Rule 268
In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. It's as if someone has actually driven on a modern motorway.

Rule 268
Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. Even if you drive a (insert car brand here).:mad:

You've got to watch the car to your right however, you've no way of telling if they've read the HC and might not expect your manoeuvre.

Blues&twos
3rd Jan 2018, 17:53
Beat me to it CarryOnLuggage!

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 18:07
COL, and the car on the left which is just as likely to cut back in again.

Then we get the middle lane owner on an empty motorway, yes we have those here, where I have had to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to 2 with the MLO cruising on with mind in neutral.

It's Not Working
3rd Jan 2018, 18:34
Driving in the middle lane | Harvey Andrews (http://music.harveyandrews.com/track/driving-in-the-middle-lane)

He also wrote 'The British Soldier' which will resonate with a few here.

andytug
3rd Jan 2018, 19:10
COL, and the car on the left which is just as likely to cut back in again.

Then we get the middle lane owner on an empty motorway, yes we have those here, where I have had to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to 2 with the MLO cruising on with mind in neutral.

Which is now a specific offence with a fixed penalty. I leave predicting the likelihood of a police car seeing such an offence as an exercise for the reader.....

Gertrude the Wombat
3rd Jan 2018, 19:20
Then we get the middle lane owner on an empty motorway, yes we have those here, where I have had to cross from lane 1 to 3 and back to 2 with the MLO cruising on with mind in neutral.
Came across several of those last weekend.

Wot has gobsmacked me about this thread is that none of the usual petrolheads are saying "of course we overtake on the hard shoulder, what else are we supposed to do when the rest of the road is full of peasants/liberals/whatever who can't even afford a BMW/Merc/whatever?".

spekesoftly
3rd Jan 2018, 20:29
is that really true, change to British licence with no test? Certainly there may be a transition period where your foreign licence remains valid, but surely not a free exchange.

There is a driving licence exchange agreement between Great Britain and certain 'designated countries' (Andorra, Australia, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, Hong Kong, Japan, Monaco, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Singapore, South Africa, Switzerland and Zimbabwe).

There is a fee to exchange, but no driving test required. Similar arrangements with NI, IOM and CI.

For full details see:-

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-driving-licence

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 20:59
Spekesoftly, thank you. My father, as a seaman didn't drive or have much opportunity to take lessons. While his ship was in Belfast he got a NI licence. It was not transfer then and he eventually had to take a test. As he had a licence he didn't need L plates.

parabellum
3rd Jan 2018, 21:19
What speaksoftly says. Just had it confirmed, to renew my long expired UK licence I need to fill out various forms and submit my out of date (paper!) licence and surrender my current Australian licence, also need to be resident in the UK.

bgbazz
3rd Jan 2018, 21:36
I have had a couple of experiences with the plod when it comes to hard shoulders and neither of them seem believable when viewed in hindsight.

#1. Bromsgrove area, following a large tipper lorry, fitted with one of those Hiab type, hydraulic loading arms, just behind the cab. Coming up behind the vehicle, I noticed that the loading arm was in the raised position (it was hitting branches and power lines above the road)...I sped up, flashed my lights and sounded the horn continuously, no reaction! I knew that there was a low railway bridge ahead, so I got a little more aggressive, almost pulling up beside the vehicle in my attempts to stop it....still no reaction!
Anyway, you can guess the rest...truck hit the bridge, cab was propelled upwards and the roof ended up level with the top of the dashboard...I managed to stop about a metre behind the truck and rushed out to offer help...as I ran up, a chap behind me yelled that he called an ambulance and then came to help. There was nothing we could do but wait for help to arrive. Fire trucks came, ambulance came .....20 minutes later, the plod came, took a look and went to the pub up the road, for coffee (or tea) and something to eat. I sat in my car, with the bonnet almost under the truck for more than two hours...the man who had called the emergency services drove away after giving me his contact details, the ambulance blokes were terrific but they left too. Just me sitting in my car, wondering what might happen next. Big tow truck arrived to remove the wrecked tipper truck which was totally blocking the railway under pass and all the coppers said to me was...move your car or we will book you for blocking the lane.

I drove 200 miles home in a daze that day. No details were taken..only threats issued. I was the only eyewitness to that accident...and I relive it often.

#2. Just north of Newark, on the A1(M)...not too long after the first incident. Cruising along behind a HGV, sipping on a coffee and not in a hurry
Spot a horse rider doing something strange about 250 metres of me they crashed through the fence and continued over the barrier, straight into the side of the HGV which did not stop or slow down. I could clearly see what was left behind and I did stop...just behind a horrific scene. The body of the rider was in the first lane, the clearly injured horse was in the middle lane. I stopped as far to the left as I could and ran to help...dragged the rider off the road and placed her in front of my car...at that time I didn't know that the rider was a girl, and that she was was just 13 yrs old.

My car was parked on the shoulder, hazards flashing, I was performing CPR, right in front of my car and the police arrive. They start inspecting the scene...no concern for the victim, no questions for me.. ambulance arrives and then things start to happen....what did I find, what have I done so far?
Weall did what we could but the outcome was not good.
The worst thing was a threat from the coppers...don't block the shoulder...even if it's to protect yourself and a dead body....WILL give you a ticket ....and we will ALWAYS win!!!!

ExSp33db1rd
4th Jan 2018, 03:31
........is that really true, change to British licence with no test? Certainly there may be a transition period where your foreign licence remains valid, but surely not a free exchange.

There is a driving licence exchange agreement between Great Britain and certain 'designated countries'

Happened to me three times now, Canada, Singapore and New Zealand. No problem.

In Canada, during RAF training, the local butcher issued driving licences, also conducting tests where necessary, so we went along on a busy Saturday morning, and he said he was too busy, could we go back on Monday morning ? No, we said, well, he said, I guess you've all got British licences, haven't you ? Rhubarb, Rhubarb, some muttered, so he threw a pad of forms at us and told us to complete them ourselves, which he quickly signed, then clutching our new Canadian driving licences those who indeed did have British licences then took the rest back to base - and taught them to drive ! I believe that those without British licences originally subsequently exchanged their Canadian licences for British ones under the agreement, and have never sat a British test !

In Singapore I had to attend a Police Licensing Dept. The female occupant of the office looked like something escaped from the UK Metropolitan Police, heavy dark blue serge uniform, lots of chromium buttons - two strategically placed over large - well you know ! Air conditioning going flat out as a result against my more flimsy attire.

She sat behind a huge Underwood office typewriter which I guessed she had only just seen for the first time, judging by her hesitant, one finger prodding, accompanied by much sighing and silent cursing.

Eventually I reminded her that the office closed shortly, and would she like me to do the typing ? She moved over and I completed my own application form which she then signed and I took it next door where a clerk issued my licence and I drove home.

Subsequently I didn't have to take a test in NZ, either, but my USA wife had to sit a written and practical road tests, and was criticised for not maintaining the 100 kph speed limit - we bring you down here to see how you manage the open road speeds, she was told.

Today, the local Press report that a foreign driver has been charged and fined for holding up 40+ cars whilst only driving at 50 kph in a 100 kph road.

Bring it on !!

Did you know that you are only supposed to maintain one driving licence from any Administration - or used to, unless it has been changed ? Once issued with the your new Country's licence one is supposed to return the one used for the conversion to the relevant Horthorities - does anyone ? I eventually had to relinquish my UK licence when the present format was introduced, and I couldn't honestly complete the residency and address questions on the new application form.

KelvinD
4th Jan 2018, 06:42
When I went to Jeddah in 1978, my colleagues and I were told we had to get a Saudi licence but a newly introduced rule said we had to go for an eye test. I went in for mine and was presented with a chart showing a lot of silhouettes, similar to those used on road signs. When asked by the doctor to reel off what I could see, I began with "Moo Cow, Puffer Train, Brum Brum..". The doctor said I wasn't taking this seriously and I agreed with him. I had my licence a few minutes later! And I didn't have to surrender my UK version.
At one stage, I held licences issued by Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Oman, all issued on the strength of the UK licence. I also held licences from California and Texas, issued after having to take a driving test in those States.
Then I moved to Germany and had to surrender my UK licence in exchange for a German one and then do the reverse when I moved back to UK.

Pontius Navigator
4th Jan 2018, 08:01
ExSpd, regarding two licences, IIRC, in Cyprus some people used both. One clean and the Cyprus one to collect points when driving in UK.

ExSp33db1rd
5th Jan 2018, 05:40
One clean and the Cyprus one to collect points when driving in UK.

Of course, who would hand back a licence unless forced to ?

I had my UK licence stolen, so went through the proper procedures to have it re-issued, and then the original was subsequently returned, so I kept both, just in case I amassed some penalty points or other infringements, and if stopped at a routine inspection I could show the Hofficer a "clean" licence, which would not give him cause to think that he had a hardened criminal here by chance, and perhaps he should investigate me a little deeper - maybe ?

I never had to prove my theory, but it seemed like a good strategy at the time.

G-CPTN
5th Jan 2018, 05:50
Nowadays, of course, the police have access to an online database irrespective of whatever physical document you chose to present.