From Eastern European training into traditional UK/Western European carriers

[60N]

Hey there,

I was trying to give advice to some young Aspiring pilots (EU nationalities) regarding flight training.
An idea came up to save money by training in Eastern Europe, then build some hours with a low cost carrier on that side of the continent.
My advice was not to go that route if you are aiming at the likes of BA, Virgin, Thomson etc., but to go the mainstream route with FTE/CTC/Oxford, with the view that big numbers don’t lie and this is still the way to go.
In my time, you didn’t see mass migration of pilots from Eastern European airlines into the mainstream UK carriers.
I wonder if this situation have changed? (I have been away in the ME for some time now).

I would appreciate your opinion.

[Officer Kite]

60N

What do you mean by 'Eastern Europe'? That's a fairly large generalisation to make, schools there are much like schools here ... consisting of the good the bad and the ugly.

Presuming you're referring to one of the larger schools such as BAA, then personally I can't see why you'd stand any better chance at employment on a western carrier than if you went to CTC/OAA/FTE. Yes those airlines have large partnerships with BA, Virgin and easyjet, but in the last 12 months or so, how many of their untagged graduates have actually gained employment with any of those airlines?

You haven't got to go too deep on these very forums to see there are quite a number of CTC (or L3, whatever you're having yourself) graduates who have no job and there is no job in sight either. The hold pool is full and only getting larger. The situation at OAA is said to be even more Grim, think they only have easyjet who on the rare occasion dip in and BMI regional who every now and again nip a few, that's it. What on earth is all the extra cash for? To say you went to 'oxford'?

However I can tell you of more than a few BAA graduates I know personally (modular and integrated) who have gotten jobs with Wizz air via the school, and also some who got jobs with Ryanair ... fairly decent jobs for new license holders. Going to an eastern european school hasn't harmed them, I doubt there's anything stopping them going from RYR or Wizz to BA, VS or whoever else you want.

It's not quite as simple as East = Bad and West = Good. There's also Bartolini, who I hear are doing a decent enough job of producing pilots, many of which have joined ryanair.

[Alex Whittingham]

The situation at OAA is said to be even more Grim

Can you expand? There seems to be something odd going on at the moment. We are meant to be in the middle of the biggest hiring boom in years but I keep hearing whispers that all is not good. Maybe it is temporary.

[Reverserbucket]

To say you went to 'oxford'?
Which is meaningless really these days - the good, well respected FTO that once was is now little more than a brand that bears no relation to the former Oxford Air Training School - a name synonymous with high quality flight training.

[AA5 Flyer]

I am a Bartolini Air former trainee and I know a few people who came to Bartolini for their CPL and ME-IR and ended up in CityJet, Stobart Air and Jet2. And with the Wings Alliance program, another guy joined Thomas Cook.

All Irish and British I have to say.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone that’s been to Bartolini and secured a decent first job. I’m really considering going there for CPL/ME/IR but was advised by a training captain that I should train in the UK. Bartolini obviously have a great reputation but I’d hate to go there only to limit employment opportunities just because they’re not UK based. Veltro’s post highlights that people are getting decent jobs after training there but this could be an exception rather than the norm.

[AA5 Flyer]

That’s the problem though. If many of the recruitment guys here in the U.K. are also narrow minded and wrongly assume that you haven’t been trained to high standards just because you’ve trained in Europe, you might get less chances at that first job :ugh:

I have looked at Bartolini’s FB page before, people are definitely getting good jobs after training there. A bit harder to judge how many people have gone there and not got a job though!

[Officer Kite]

Can you expand? There seems to be something odd going on at the moment. We are meant to be in the middle of the biggest hiring boom in years but I keep hearing whispers that all is not good. Maybe it is temporary.

Well it's only stuff that I am relaying from people who I know that have been through it first hand. Monarch took a few every now and again and with them gone its become worse. easyJet have cut their hiring of 'untagged' people bigtime and are likely to cut even more once the large number of their own 'tagged' cadets start to reach the end of their training throughout the course of this year and 2019. The tap will really run dry then. CityJet took 1 untagged cadet last year (got the job himself anyway, perhaps them using the school for their cadets helped his CV, who knows). Ryanair are the other big hirer, but really they hire people from schools in cities and places we've never even heard of and spent a quarter of the price than OAA grads so that's not something i'd be shouting loud about. Granted all this I felt the situation was described well by the word 'grim'.

I was having a convo with my uncle recently (non aviation guy) and he began talking about how he reckons my '62,000 euro license is not like the 100,000 one you get from oxford'. Rather adamant that my license will be inferior and will hinder me later on in life if I want to work for 'famous airlines'. I took a deep breath before attempting to explain the EASA concept and licensing system and how they're the same and one can become the other by a matter of mere paperwork, I didn't get anywhere mind. My point is this is the attitude and opinion many people have, aviation or non aviation minded (although one should be able to rightly assume that an aviation minded person is well aware of the game before parting with their cash).

[MaverickPrime]

Ryanair don’t see any difference between modular or integrated so long as you are legally qualified and can pass their assessment! Never have nor dare I say never will.

In fact Ryanair make a point to employ people from Eastern/Southern Europe as they are more likely to work in Ryanair bases in those parts of Europe where they are short of crew.

Ryanair also know rightly that all the snowflake middle class kids from L3 Aviation CTC Space Academy can’t wait to get a base back in the UK near mummy and daddy, or their face on ITV prime time for that matter..... I think a lot of airline recruiters are slowly getting the message that these kids aren’t exactly a great investment, especially when you have to consider them for a command course in 4 or 5 years.