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jack11111
1st Jan 2018, 08:11
China has notified the world they will no longer take 25 categories of our "recyclables".

I suspect this will impact the economics of the recycling industries and shake out some of the weaker players.

Happy New Year everyone.

KelvinD
1st Jan 2018, 08:35
And the answer to this, surely, is to tell the Chinese "Fair enough, understood. And we will no longer accept imports from China packed in plastic".

ExSp33db1rd
1st Jan 2018, 08:54
Absolutely - our local supermarket is about to phase out plastic shopping bags to carry our loot home, but -- sells everything to pieces of cake and a few biscuits in hard shell plastic containers. WTF ?

UniFoxOs
1st Jan 2018, 09:08
And the answer to this, surely, is to tell the Chinese "Fair enough, understood. And we will no longer accept recyclable imports from China - i.e kit that can't be fixed when it breaks" - i.e most of their crap.

Fixed that for you.

Pontius Navigator
1st Jan 2018, 09:36
De ja vu, last year's news.

I am sure it never made sense to ship cardboard to China, fill it with short life cr*p, ship it to UK, then ship the cardboard back again.

I would have thought western scientists could turn paper into wood pellets and plastic into oil products.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2018, 10:22
And the answer to this, surely, is to tell the Chinese "Fair enough, understood. And we will no longer accept imports from China packed in plastic".
Beat me to it - the obviously correct answer. If the Chinese won't take their rubbish back we should refrain from importing it in the first place.

Quake
1st Jan 2018, 10:48
And the answer to this, surely, is to tell the Chinese "Fair enough, understood. And we will no longer accept imports from China packed in plastic".

Back in the real world, we will take as much of it as the British retail market can punt out at a profit, it's called Capitalism, in other words no change.

ATNotts
1st Jan 2018, 11:40
Beat me to it - the obviously correct answer. If the Chinese won't take their rubbish back we should refrain from importing it in the first place.

The problem is that most of their rubbish is "our rubbish" as it is made for/ paid for by western corporations who don't want to pay the right price to get their stuff manufactured at western labour costs - and I'm sure western consumers wouldn't be chuffed at paying the much higher retail prices that would ensue.

With regard to shipping recyclables back to China for processing, when I was last involved there were so many containers being shipped back to China empty from Europe the freight rates were negligible, and since much of the recycled materials are used again in china to manufacture yet more stuff (that we really don't need, just want) it would seem logical for the trade to continue.

meadowrun
1st Jan 2018, 11:43
Plenty of other over-populated countries to take up the slack.

ATNotts
1st Jan 2018, 11:57
Plenty of other over-populated countries to take up the slack.

But quite a few without the work ethic and business acumen of the Chinese.

B Fraser
1st Jan 2018, 12:07
But quite a few without the work ethic and business acumen of the Chinese.

Or any regard for air quality and emissions control.

:ugh:

ATNotts
1st Jan 2018, 12:45
Or any regard for air quality and emissions control.

:ugh:

I think even the Chinese are starting to understand that one, sadly at the same time that Trump appears to be largely junking the USA's policies on both.

Fareastdriver
1st Jan 2018, 14:00
I knew a chap in Tianjin in the nineties who was into waste paper and cardboard.

It would be delivered to the dockside in Antwerp and he would be PAID to take it away. The freight costs were peanuts and on arrival at Tianjin he would be PAID for it again.

He was making money faster than he could count it.

Jet II
1st Jan 2018, 14:06
And the answer to this, surely, is to tell the Chinese "Fair enough, understood. And we will no longer accept imports from China packed in plastic".

Sorry dont see the link between buying consumer goods from China and expecting them to take our rubbish away - do we expect to be able to dump our rubbish on Germany in exchange for all the BMW's and Mercedes they sell in the UK?

fltlt
1st Jan 2018, 14:18
I think even the Chinese are starting to understand that one, sadly at the same time that Trump appears to be largely junking the USA's policies on both.

Don’t particularly care either way for the man, but what has he done to “largely junk” the current US policies.

All I can see is that the current administration stopped a massive transfer of American taxpayers money overseas for no gain.
Being one of those taxpayers I have no problem with that. Let the rest of the world stand up and put their money where their tin cup is for a change.
And yes, the developed world created China, with all its current problems, because it was cheaper to manufacture there than Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc.,
etc., etc.
Massive technology and know how transfer.
The WalMart effect, for which we may regret in years to come.

glad rag
1st Jan 2018, 14:27
Don’t particularly care either way for the man, but what has he done to “largely junk” the current US policies.

All I can see is that the current administration stopped a massive transfer of American taxpayers money overseas for no gain.
Being one of those taxpayers I have no problem with that. Let the rest of the world stand up and put their money where their tin cup is for a change.
And yes, the developed world created China, with all its current problems, because it was cheaper to manufacture there than Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc.,
etc., etc.
Massive technology and know how transfer.
The WalMart effect, for which we may regret in years to come.

:D :D :D :D

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2018, 15:18
Sorry dont see the link between buying consumer goods from China and expecting them to take our rubbish away - do we expect to be able to dump our rubbish on Germany in exchange for all the BMW's and Mercedes they sell in the UK?
How much plastic packaging doe the BMWs and Mercs come wrapped in?

Jet II
1st Jan 2018, 15:28
How much plastic packaging doe the BMWs and Mercs come wrapped in?

The last BMW I rode in was full of plastic - pretty much all modern cars are. :ugh:

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2018, 17:28
The last BMW I rode in was full of plastic - pretty much all modern cars are. :ugh:
Sure, and I think you'll find there are EU rules about disposing of it (which I'm sure many here will be grateful that we're disposing of, so we'll be able to go back to just chucking the plastic into the landscape).

My point was the difference between plastic packaging for unnecessary Chinese tat, which has a lifetime of maybe fifteen seconds in the consumer's hands before being discarded, and plastic components of properly made cars, which have a lifetime of maybe fifteen years before (in theory at least) being disposed of in a sound manner.

ShyTorque
1st Jan 2018, 17:47
This firm is "paving the way" with another way to reuse old plastics:

https://www.britishplastics.co.uk/Environment/cumbria-first-uk-county-to-trial-new-plastic-road/

Quake
1st Jan 2018, 17:56
The only answer is to make it cheaper to recycle than it is to produce new plastic. It's a supra-capitalist world, nothing happens unless someone makes a profit out of it.

Pontius Navigator
1st Jan 2018, 18:56
Jet II, it wasn't a question of dumping returning packaging as the Chinese wanted it and could profit from it. They are saying that our rubbish is too dirty or contaminated or some such.

We will just have to do it ourselves

G-CPTN
1st Jan 2018, 19:12
They are saying that our rubbish is too dirty or contaminated or some such.

Send it to the laundry - I believe the Chinese are good at that . . .

surely not
1st Jan 2018, 19:22
There are a few people on here who have views on China that are very outdated and probably as old as the joke about shoddy Chinese goods.

Boeing, Airbus, most mobile phones, a huge amount of the I.T. in computers all rely heavily on Chinese manufacturers. Clearly they are quite happy with the quality provided. For ground handling, the GSE from China is becoming more reliable and price wise is very competitive. Scoff away with the superiority complex that so many seem to have, but Chinese products are not all low price low quality anymore than British products.

Pontius Navigator
1st Jan 2018, 19:31
SN, you mention IT. I wonder just how certain we are that their kit does not have a back door?

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2018, 19:43
They are saying that our rubbish is too dirty or contaminated or some such.

I've heard of contracts having 4% contamination limits. This isn't of course publicised by the councils to the public, because if the public think it's OK to put 4% non-recyclable rubbish in their recycling then you'll actually end up with rather more than 4%.

G-CPTN
1st Jan 2018, 19:56
I don't know what happens to our recycling, other than that it is sorted mechanically.

My offer to segregate plastic bottles from paper have been refused - it seems that 'bagging' them confuses the machinery.

surely not
1st Jan 2018, 20:04
Pontius, I guess it might well have a back door, but then that is presumably a risk that companies agree to take when they outsource the manufacture to China.

Fareastdriver
1st Jan 2018, 20:49
The Chines imported plastic for recycling because they needed the plastic to make or pack their merchandise. Over the last thirty years their economy has advanced so spectacularly that they are producing enough plastic for recycling themselves.

When I was in China if I wanted to recycle something I just threw it out if the window; somebody would pick it up and sell it.

ORAC
1st Jan 2018, 20:50
China to stop taking Western trash?

That will mean most of the ex-pat workers being sent home then?

Jet II
1st Jan 2018, 22:42
SN, you mention IT. I wonder just how certain we are that their kit does not have a back door?

Like US software you mean.. ;)

ShotOne
2nd Jan 2018, 00:22
Was there ever any remotely sane reason for shipping stuff to be recycled halfway round the world? Especially when it's supposedly for environmental reasons!

Impress to inflate
2nd Jan 2018, 06:35
The issue of plastic recycling seems obvious but no governments want anything to do with it!

A family friend had the patent for converting plastic to ultra low sulphur diesel by passing waste plastic over his patented catalytic converter and hey presto.........diesel !! He could do any plastic, even PVC but de-canting the chlorine off and bottling it. He approached the UK government a few years ago and they weren't interested so he exports it to Germany. The costs were low, from memory 20 pence per litre !!!!!!!!!!

He collects the plastic from farmers who use plastic to seal hay bales to convert the hay into silage for live stock.

ORAC
2nd Jan 2018, 06:47
Was there ever any remotely sane reason for shipping stuff to be recycled halfway round the world? Thecontainer ships are going back there empty anyway.....

Pontius Navigator
2nd Jan 2018, 07:58
The environmental mantra is that waste should be disposed of at the closest point of arising. Our council used a waste transfer facility over 100 miles away over a toll bridge as they had a spate with the county council which had a contract with the other 5 districts with an in county WTF.

My unit used a facility 5 miles up the road. An adjacent unit used one for identical waste 70 miles away - their contractor passed my site on the way. Of course palms might have been crossed in both cases.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Jan 2018, 09:36
Of course palms might have been crossed in both cases.
More likely the contracts were let at different times, and each council took the best deal it could get on the day. We were once looking at a contractor some distance away because the nearby one wouldn't take all the materials we wanted to recycle, but things change quite rapidly in this business and I think we ended up with the local one (not my portfolio, I wasn't following this closely).

treadigraph
2nd Jan 2018, 10:16
Shy Torque's link to the reuse of plastic in road materials reminds me that a friend of my brother was producing kerb stones made out of recycled CDs and presumably other similar grade plastics.

Trossie
2nd Jan 2018, 10:22
Was there ever any remotely sane reason for shipping stuff to be recycled halfway round the world? Especially when it's supposedly for environmental reasons!Making use of empty container ships going that way anyway sounds a perfectly sane, and environmentally sound, reason to me.

meadowrun
2nd Jan 2018, 10:23
I'd suggest the Chinese go out and mine those floating Sargasso Seas of plastic in the middle of the oceans, for nice clean, washed material, but they'd build them into islands, militarize them and claim thousands of square miles of sovereign territory......
or something.

Pontius Navigator
3rd Jan 2018, 22:14
GTW, no in both cases

In my case, one supra contractor, 3 sites each retained its previous contractor.

In the council case FOI request they said they had an issue with County. It was County trying to get all Districts to use same hymn sheet.

ShotOne
4th Jan 2018, 02:07
The fact that shipping rates west to east are dirt cheap hardly makes it “environmentally sound”. That’s an economic factor, as is the artificially low Chinese currency and the (by our standards) extremely low labour costs. This is hardly a crisis. Certainly not an environmental one. There’s 190 odd other countries in the world including ours!

Pontius Navigator
4th Jan 2018, 09:17
ShotOne, but a lesson in single source or monopoly market. A bit like when most councils piled into Icelandic banking, now the same councils sending their waste to various waste transfer facilities (WTF) :) which then take the cheap option of sending stuff to China.

Yesterday's headline talked of 1.5bn tonnes when really the waste in the article was 500,000 tonnes. Using the London bus analogy, that is only 8 QE Class aircraft carriers per year. Now there are thousands of quarries in the year where we have extracted billions, if not trillions, of tonnes minerals and aggregates over the millennia. Back fill there.

How about dumping it in the Sahara, might even do some good - employment for the locals?

ShotOne
4th Jan 2018, 20:07
“..only eight QE carriers per year “. Seeing as we’re talking economics rather than environment perhaps we should make that six Maersk class container ships (at 1/20th of the cost)

NutLoose
5th Jan 2018, 05:25
Was there ever any remotely sane reason for shipping stuff to be recycled halfway round the world? Especially when it's supposedly for environmental reasons!

Simply to fill the empty shipping containers you need for your next export. As you have to return them it makes sense to fill them with something that can be used, your fleece as an example is made from pop bottles.

Sallyann1234
5th Jan 2018, 10:41
In Israel a few years back I was introduced to the pleasure of eating a pomelo, which for those who have not enjoyed one is a thick skinned citrus fruit very like a large grapefruit. Since they are often available in the UK I will sometimes buy one.

Yes, I will get to the point... I put one on our weekly food order yesterday. It was labelled as having come from China, and it was wrapped, in plastic. Twice. Firstly covered in shrink wrap, and then inside a woven string bag. For an item that needs no protection whatever. Both items made from oil. Just what is going on?