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bloom
27th Dec 2017, 06:01
I'm tired of spending minutes, hours, days trying to figure out what you are saying because you are too freaking lazy to type another few letters to say what you are saying or you can't spell it yourself.

There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations that have adopted the military use of them.

Don't. I should not have to waste my time and everyone else's time to figure out what you mean because you can't type it out .

bloom
27th Dec 2017, 06:20
Waste is time. Waist is your fat ass wife.

Airbubba
27th Dec 2017, 06:45
The perennial PPRuNe grammer police thread... ;)

jumby164
27th Dec 2017, 06:45
I'm tired of spending minutes, hours, days trying to figure out what you are saying because you are too freaking lazy to type another few letters to say what you are saying or you can't spell it yourself.

There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations that have adopted the military use of them.

Don't. I should not have to waste my time and everyone else's time to figure out what you mean because you can't type it out .

Please, don't try to generalise - You are the one who fails to understand what most of us clearly do!!

Grammer needs a bit of work old chap, rather difficult to understand what you mean, now you are wasting my time!!!

Hydromet
27th Dec 2017, 06:52
Grammer needs a bit of work old chap...as does spelling.

meadowrun
27th Dec 2017, 07:05
Buses
buses
BUSES


unless you're talking about an electrical device.

Hempy
27th Dec 2017, 07:17
There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations that have adopted the military use of them.

wtfdtm :confused:

ORAC
27th Dec 2017, 07:20
TLAs etc.

TTFN......

Flypro
27th Dec 2017, 07:26
One really shouldn't start a thread such as this when one is either tiddled, grumpy or challenged oneself in both spelling and grammar :=

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 07:28
I think the OP needs to lighten up.

PPRuNe would be a poorer place if posting was restricted to 100% literate native English speakers. The occasional spelling, grammar or punctuation error is entirely forgiveable provided it doesn't interfere with the ability to understand a post.

Having said that, what really get up my nose are posters who use IATA and ICAO codes (particularly for airports) because they think it gives them extra street cred - and then use the wrong one !

A favourite on here seems to be using DUB for Dubai. Apart from the fact that DUB belongs to a completely different airport, you've only saved yourself typing a measly two extra letters, and confused 90% of your readership in the process. :ugh:

Denti
27th Dec 2017, 07:49
Which grammar, spelling etc? English, scottish, irish, US, australian? You „native“ spakers can’t even agree on one set of words, spelling and grammar. For those of us with english as a secondary or tertiary language it is quite confusing at times.

olli4740
27th Dec 2017, 08:08
After reading the opening post, I edited all my posts for speeling ... ;-)

ORAC
27th Dec 2017, 09:02
A deliberate ploy my dear chap, to confuse Johnny Foreigner. We should never have got rid of £SD - that was even better....

arketip
27th Dec 2017, 09:31
https://piximus.net/media2/39535/jokes-that-only-grammar-nerds-can-appreciate-26.jpg

Hempy
27th Dec 2017, 10:20
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg1Mj5vWwAAojOA?format=jpg&name=900x900

ZFT
27th Dec 2017, 10:33
My only issue is with text speak. To me, that is unacceptable. Less than perfect English is understandable as we never know the background or sobriety of the poster.

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 10:41
A reason for using acronyms is to target a specific subset of readers.

Tankertrashnav
27th Dec 2017, 10:47
I think the OP has a point, but it could have been put better. Acronyms are a good example, what may be quite intelligible to those in the know can be a real bar to understanding to those who don't. Also these things change. AI is much in the news at the moment, with the big advances in artificial intelligence, but to someone who used to keep cattle it will always mean artificial insemination, so whenever AI is mentioned on the news I get a mental picture of the man from the AI service with his arm up the rear end of a cow!

And just to reinforce meadowrun's post - buses, buses, BUSES! However "He busses (kisses) his wife and children every morning before he leaves for work"

under_exposed
27th Dec 2017, 10:52
When you say 'Acronyms' I assume you mean abbreviations?

Tankertrashnav
27th Dec 2017, 11:06
Yes those too!

Bull at a Gate
27th Dec 2017, 11:09
Well done under exposed! While I can completely forgive those whose native language is not English, one might have expected better from people in “SW England” and Lincolnshire”.

thefeatheredone
27th Dec 2017, 11:10
So if I have this right.. we are complaining about abbreviations on PPruNe.....

ATC Watcher
27th Dec 2017, 11:12
I am always amazed how people that speak only one ( their native language ) take pleasure in putting down others that have done the effort to learn theirs . We call them Ayatollahs in my facility (with 25 nationalities )
As the the use of abbreviations/ acronyms , this is supposed to be a professional forum . If you want general public language go to the Daily Mail website .

eckhard
27th Dec 2017, 11:21
When you say 'Acronyms' I assume you mean abbreviations?

Not all abbreviations are acronyms but all acronyms are abbreviations pronounced as if they were words in their own right.

For example, I don’t think anyone would pronounce SOPs as “sops”. SOP is therefore an abbreviation but not an acronym.

SID and STAR however, are both abbreviations and acronyms. I’ve certainly heard SID pronounced both as “sid” and “es, eye, dee”.

Some (most?) acronyms are never spoken as individual letters. Examples include NATO, AIDS and NASA. Nevertheless, they are still abbreviations.

So, acronyms can be considered as a sub-set of the general set of abbreviations.
🤓

ORAC
27th Dec 2017, 11:40
An acronym is an abbreviation using the first letters of the words in a phrase, so NATO is an acronym - as is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). An abbreviation can be a shortened form of a word or phrase and does not necessarily consist of the first letters.

The belief that an acronym needs to be pronounced as a word is a fallacy, FBI is an acronym.

Acronym itself is a recent invention, coming into use in the 1940s, the previous term being “initialism”.

WingNut60
27th Dec 2017, 11:57
It is so annoying when people use TLA's unnecessarily.

under_exposed
27th Dec 2017, 12:12
Orac, this (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/acronym) suggests your second paragraph may be wrong.

spekesoftly
27th Dec 2017, 12:18
It is so annoying when people use TLA's unnecessarily.

And Apostrophe's. ;)

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 12:22
WN, I refer to my previous post. If the topic under discussion is for an informed readership then the use of TLA etc serves to exclude the casual reader.

As for Airborne Interception Radar, AI is readily understood in context. AIR OTOH may be read as Air Intelligence Review/Report if you see what I mean; its companion was NIR.

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 12:23
And Apostrophe's. ;)

Indeed, the plural of Three Letter Acronyms is correctly TLA.

BehindBlueEyes
27th Dec 2017, 12:40
This is a glossary of grammar terms that the UK government expects every 11 year old to know:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244216/English_Glossary.pdf


I’m sure we all know what a cohesive device is? A grapheme-phoneme correspondence? Intransitive verb? Schwa? And of course, the ever popular fronted adverbial?

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 12:48
This is a glossary of grammar terms that the UK government expects every 11 year old to know:

That, presumably, being the reason the preamble says

"It is intended as an aid for teachers, not as the body of knowledge that should be learnt by pupils".

Maybe there's one for teaching comprehension, too ? :O

andytug
27th Dec 2017, 12:49
This is a glossary of grammar terms that the UK government expects every 11 year old to know:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244216/English_Glossary.pdf


I’m sure we all know what a cohesive device is? A grapheme-phoneme correspondence? Intransitive verb? Schwa? And of course, the ever popular fronted adverbial?

All unnecessary intellectual hogwash peddled by a minister who went to Eton and bought into the fantasy that learning Latin makes you somehow superior.
Should be concentrating on teaching the poor kids who struggle to read and write at all the basics, not that esoteric crap.

Ancient Observer
27th Dec 2017, 12:51
Wot? Er, yeah, right.

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 12:57
I'm tired of spending minutes, hours, days trying to figure out what you are saying because you are too freaking lazy to type another few letters to say what you are saying or you can't spell it yourself.

There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations that have adopted the military use of them.

Don't. I should not have to waste my time and everyone else's time to figure out what you mean because you can't type it out .

A lot of letters typed out there, but I'm trying to figure out what you are really trying to say. Lots of words, but lack of clarity!

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 13:01
It is so annoying when people use TLA's unnecessarily.What does the TLA possess? Does the TLA possess an 'unnecessarily'? What's an 'unnecessarily'?

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 13:01
Trossie, or, we understand all the words but not in the order written.

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 13:04
... we understand all the words but not in the order written.
Yoda ruining carol singing again (http://newsthump.com/2017/12/24/yoda-ruining-carol-singing-again/)

treadigraph
27th Dec 2017, 13:26
TBH ISTR SWMBO ROTFL at my atroc... atrouc.. rubbish speeling.

I wish people would use airfield names rather than ICAO codes. If you mean Biggin Hill then please write Biggin Hill...

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 13:32
Or BQH...?

treadigraph
27th Dec 2017, 13:42
Them neither! :p

Low life
27th Dec 2017, 14:01
I'm tired of spending minutes, hours, days trying to figure out what you are saying because you are too freaking lazy to type another few letters to say what you are saying or you can't spell it yourself.

There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations that have adopted the military use of them.

Don't. I should not have to waste my time and everyone else's time to figure out what ysou mean because you can't type it out .

Firstly, I struggle to spell due to Dyslexia, all my life I have worked hard to over come my disability.
Secondly please could you put the same effort into the structure of you posts, the one above seems to be composed by a sub-education teenager one step above text-speek

Noobyflewby
27th Dec 2017, 14:40
A deliberate ploy my dear chap, to confuse Johnny Foreigner. We should never have got rid of £SD - that was even better....

Indeed - £sd [not £SD] was so much better than the UK decimal currency [and people the world over still buy cases of wine with 12 bottles!] and, just to confuse JF even further, £sd was pronounced ell-ess-dee or otherwise referred to as "pounds, shillings and pence"... which was even better since the "pence" bore no apparent relation to the "d"!

Mechta
27th Dec 2017, 14:48
For an industry in which a failure to provide clear, concise communication is either costly, time wasting or even deadly, it never ceases to amaze me how bad some, and the military are often the worst offenders, are at it. Threads in which a B206 could just as easily be a Jet Ranger or a Beagle Bassett are but one example.

My favourite of this year (and I accept it is in dubious taste) concerned the reporting of a Ppruner being 'no longer with us'. Firstly, there was some doubt over whether the chap concerned had died, or just left Pprune. Then, once this was established, there was doubt over which of a number of Ppruners with similar usernames it was. Finally, when somebody actually put a real name to the user name, it turned out there was still more than one contender.

I can understand when scribbling on a knee pad for one's own benefit that brevity is essential, but when one's feet are back on the ground, getting a message understood first time, every time, without the recipient being a mind reader should take precedence.

funfly
27th Dec 2017, 14:53
‘ear, ‘ear.

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 14:55
To confuse the confuse-able even more, £sd stands for "librae, solidi and denarii"!

Fareastdriver
27th Dec 2017, 14:57
Anybody that writes in a language where 'one' is pronounced 'wun' is excused.

You try explaining to someone learning English.

Noobyflewby
27th Dec 2017, 14:58
An acronym is an abbreviation using the first letters of the words in a phrase, so NATO is an acronym - as is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). An abbreviation can be a shortened form of a word or phrase and does not necessarily consist of the first letters.

The belief that an acronym needs to be pronounced as a word is a fallacy, FBI is an acronym.

Acronym itself is a recent invention, coming into use in the 1940s, the previous term being “initialism”.


It infuriates me that The Times and The Daily Telegraph, for example, now print NATO as Nato and SOPs would appear as Sops, yet they print BBC as BBC and TLAs would appear as TLAs.


After asking the editor of The Times about this, it seems journalists have decided that if a set of initials forms a readable word, then the upper case first letter followed by lower case letters "rule" applies, but if the initials cannot be read in such a way and have to be enunciated separately, then it's upper case only for all the letters.


Interestingly, though, after a quick Goggle, I see that IATA appears in the DT as IATA so there is no consistency!

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 15:04
... getting a message understood first time, every time, without the recipient beng [sic!] a mind reader should take precedence.

Stoic philosophy felt that one could not get an idea across clearly if the language used was not clear. The Romans were rather keen on the Stoic philosophy and that aspect of it resulted in the very precise Latin grammar. Precise grammar helps to get ideas across clearly, i.e. the recipient does not have to be that mind reader as what is being said is perfectly clear. Muddled grammar puts across muddled ideas. I hope that's quite clear.

WingNut60
27th Dec 2017, 15:18
What does the TLA possess? Does the TLA possess an 'unnecessarily'? What's an 'unnecessarily'?

Ah. Well done.
So what is the plural form of a three letter acronym?

I was taught that if you have an awkward plural (usually of a letter, a number, or an unusual abbreviation), you can use an apostrophe to denote the plural form.
e.g.


Hawaii is spelt with two i's. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif
She used six and's in one sentence. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif
.. use TLA's unnecessarily. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif

Trossie
27th Dec 2017, 15:26
TLAs

What on earth has an apostrophe got to do with creating a plural?!!

WingNut60
27th Dec 2017, 15:37
TLAs

What on earth has an apostrophe got to do with creating a plural?!!

Exactly as I explained above.
Look it up.
Though I do see that there are differing opinions.

It's not just for the possessive.

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 15:38
I was taught that if you have an awkward plural (usually of a letter, a number, or an unusual abbreviation), you can use an apostrophe to denote the plural form.
e.g.


Hawaii is spelt with two i's. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif
She used six and's in one sentence. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif
.. use TLA's unnecessarily. http://www.grammar-monster.com/images/bultick.gif



Present-day grammarians tend to agree with the first two, where the apostrophe adds clarity, but not with the (uppercase) third example, where it doesn't.

WingNut60
27th Dec 2017, 15:55
Present-day grammarians tend to agree with the first two, where the apostrophe adds clarity, but not with the (uppercase) third example, where it doesn't.

Preponderance of opinion seems to be with you. However it is not as I was taught.

I note that the current NYT Stylebook (sorry, sorry) says;Use apostrophes for plurals of abbreviations that have capital letters and periods: M.D.’s, C.P.A.’s. Also use apostrophes for plurals formed from single letters: He received A’s and B’s on his report card. Mind your p’s and q’s.

But do not use apostrophes for plurals of abbreviations without periods, or for plurals formed from figures: TVs, PCs, DVDs; 1990s, 747s, size 7s.

However, older versions apparently said that the addition of an apostrophe was necessary when pluralising all abbreviations, preferring "PC's, TV's and VCR's". (Circa 1990s)
I stand enlightened.

Kelly Hopper
27th Dec 2017, 16:09
I too find it extraordinary that native Englanders (professional pilots?) post on this forum without knowing to differentiate between there, their and they're? How can this be? It is, after all first year (6year old) English schooling.
It does make reading such illiterate posts so difficult and I regularly find myself reading them 4/5 times before understanding the point raised.
We all make grammar mistakes and that is forgivable but total English ignorance is not! (Non English speakers we make allowance for)
It's amazing to me that so many accept that speaking bollocks is acceptable these days? It never used to be and to me it still isn't. Speak proper English particularly if you are publishing a point of view on a world forum?
Only exceeded by the DM and DE which I have given up on as their editors must now be pre school?

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 16:14
IIRC the Defence Writing guide said that the plural form of a TLA did not take an S. I can't recall whether plural forms of pound and knot was lbs and kts or lb and KT.

lomapaseo
27th Dec 2017, 16:19
So if I have this right.. we are complaining about abbreviations on PPRuNe.....

neigh neigh, let's start with the most difficult one which is PPRuNe

I never did understand the need to capitalize some letters versus others nor could I completely spit out what it stood for in one sentence.

We need to revolt and name it something more befitting to it's present day use :)

Krystal n chips
27th Dec 2017, 16:31
Let us all, as this time of goodwill and festive celebrations, embrace the world with a summation of the theme of this thread.....and military writing in particular....

Bollox

Couilles

Bockchen

Cajones

ерунда

胡说

Sallyann1234
27th Dec 2017, 16:37
We need to revolt and name it something more befitting to it's present day use :)
Or even 'its present day use' :)

KelvinD
27th Dec 2017, 17:46
This thing with the plurals has often bothered me. I was taught that an initial meant the first letter of a word or name. It doesn't matter how many letters they may be in the word, it still consists of the first letter only. And this causes me some aggravation when referring to Members of Parliament or Prisoners of War in the plural. To me, a single Member of Parliament is an M.P. and a nest of the buggers is still M.P. The same applies to Prisoners of War. People write 'MPs' or 'POWs.' If an 's' to indicate a plrual was called for, then surely it would be appended to the word that affected, so 'MsP or 'PsoW'.

BehindBlueEyes
27th Dec 2017, 18:04
Good point KelvinD.

And what about PIN numbers? Surely, it’s PI number? No one says Personal Identification Number Number do they? :confused::confused::confused:

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 18:19
BEE, along with AC and DC current.

Whereas while MOT Test sets my teeth on edge it is of course correct.

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 19:11
IIRC the Defence Writing guide said that the plural form of a TLA did not take an S.

You've never navigated using VORs, presumably ? :O

Pontius Navigator
27th Dec 2017, 19:52
DR, VOR and ADF were perfectly adequate, one at a time.

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 20:51
DR, VOR and ADF were perfectly adequate, one at a time.

Dead reckoning doesn't count. :O

treadigraph
27th Dec 2017, 20:57
Good point KelvinD.

And what about PIN numbers? Surely, it’s PI number? No one says Personal Identification Number Number do they? :confused::confused::confused:

It should just be PIN - "Please insert your PIN"... We all do it I suppose.

Senior Paper Monitor
27th Dec 2017, 21:15
... and what about PPRuNe ?

funfly
27th Dec 2017, 21:25
It's Prune as far as I am concerned, that's how I pronounce it and think about it.

Senior Paper Monitor
27th Dec 2017, 21:35
Mr Bloom (#1) is not going to be pleased with you !

dook
27th Dec 2017, 21:36
Anybody that writes in a language where.....

Please excuse Glasshopper.

Anybody WHO writes in a language where.....

jonkster
27th Dec 2017, 21:48
I too find it extraordinary that native Englanders (professional pilots?) post on this forum without knowing to differentiate between there, their and they're? How can this be? It is, after all first year (6year old) English schooling.
It does make reading such illiterate posts so difficult and I regularly find myself reading them 4/5 times before understanding the point raised.

Totally concur and *not* just when written.

Sometimes when speaking I hear people say 'their' when they really meant to say 'there' or "they're".

It confuses the hearer no end and is very embarrassing when you have to ask them to keep repeating themselves multiple times, trying to understand what on earth they actually meant.

And please don't get me started about those people who misuse apostrophes when speaking or who start their sentences with conjunctions!

funfly
27th Dec 2017, 22:02
Language is a method of communication and communication is a technique allowing one to be understood. So it does not matter how you spell anything or apostrophise words as long as the recipient understands the message.
In England, we take a pride in our punctuation and in our spelling and feel affronted if they are incorrect, however we must understand that many, particularly the younger generation, do not share these values.
In my opinion there is nothing nicer that to read prose, a good book etc, written in what I consider to be good english - a form of enjoyment that, I think, may become lost to the new generation of fast cars, fast food and fast words.
TTFN
FF

DaveReidUK
27th Dec 2017, 22:03
And please don't get me started about those people who misuse apostrophes when speaking or who start their sentences with conjunctions!

Almost as bad as those who use a preposition to end a sentence with.

ExSp33db1rd
27th Dec 2017, 22:32
You try explaining to someone learning English.

The Scone stone is gone ?

Text ? The snowflakes think that they invented textspeak, when we were charged an arm and a leg per character to "send a signal, Hoskins" back to base via the various Telex services around the World - we counted our pennies, and characters.

and why is it always "loose" and not "lose" these days ?

Ogre
27th Dec 2017, 22:38
To confuse the confuse-able even more, £sd stands for "librae, solidi and denarii"!

I always thought it was "Lenarii, sisterci, denarii", but you're right! My excuse is I was brought up decimal.....

Slow Biker
27th Dec 2017, 22:41
Yesterday my granddaughter showed me a YouTube clip: Stupid American Girl. Watch it and weep.

WingNut60
27th Dec 2017, 23:00
Totally concur and *not* just when written.


Or, asterisks for emphasis. I'm not sure that I like that idea either;too difficult to pronounce.

visibility3miles
28th Dec 2017, 02:40
There are several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations...

across several thousands of occupations, across several thousands of occupations...

It must stop somewhere!

:sad:

visibility3miles
28th Dec 2017, 02:42
Ahh... Commas!

"Let's eat, Grandma!"

is different from:

"Let's eat Grandma!"

----
See the book "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" by Lynne Truss for common errors.

jolihokistix
28th Dec 2017, 02:53
Quote: "people who misuse apostrophes when speaking".


Even worse when they are writing.

Loose rivets
28th Dec 2017, 03:21
I avoided the pluralization use for years but it seems it's still in vog-u-e.

The lovely Elizabeth emails me with regular updates. Scroll well down.


https://www.english-grammar-revolution.com/punctuation-rules.html

tdracer
28th Dec 2017, 06:43
At Boeing, acronyms are everywhere (Boeing even has an internal website listing the more common acronyms and the associated definitions - it's frightening how many have multiple completely different definitions) But the Regulatory Administration (RA) was the champion of acronyms - often undefined even on their own website. Emails from the RA routinely contained enough acronyms as to be unreadable to the uninitiated.
In what has to be one of the most priceless emails of all time, they sent out a long missive a few years back demanding that those of reporting to the RA needed to avoid using acronyms, and that when writing cert plans or other cert documentation, all acronyms needed to be defined. Their email missive contained no less than ten undefined acronyms :ugh:.
Sure enough, not long after, I had a cert plan rejected for having EGT as an undefined acronym (my comment that anyone who didn't know EGT had no business reviewing a propulsion cert plan fell on deaf ears). But they managed to top that a while later, when I had a cert plan rejected for "ARINC 429 Data Bus" as an undefined acronym := - I had to actually look up what 'ARINC' stood for...:mad:

DaveReidUK
28th Dec 2017, 07:22
Quote: "people who misuse apostrophes when speaking".

Even worse when they are writing.

I guess some humour just doesn't travel ...

Ancient Mariner
28th Dec 2017, 07:41
The Scone stone is gone ?

Text ? The snowflakes think that they invented textspeak, when we were charged an arm and a leg per character to "send a signal, Hoskins" back to base via the various Telex services around the World - we counted our pennies, and characters.

and why is it always "loose" and not "lose" these days ?
Try telegrams, on bord the MV Bris I received, 1973:
Gongratulations. Girl. Weight. Length. Name?
Wife, name of.
Per

TowerDog
28th Dec 2017, 07:52
Funny thread.
I am one of them foreigners with English as a second language.
Never studied no grammar. (English or native, although my teachers tried their best.
Also had to take German language classes from 8th grade. Lost Interst very fast, them Germans invaded my Homeland 40 years prior to my German classes. Short memory;()
Hat off to fellow students back then who volunteered for French and Spanish on top of English and German.
All I wanted to do was to ride motorcycles at night, in the summer when I was 15, with sexy little girls behind me holding tight. Good old days..

ExSp33db1rd
28th Dec 2017, 08:15
Nothing to do with grammar or spelling, but ............

.......with sexy little girls behind me holding tight.

Just ridden home, some 40 Km ( 25 miles ) in heavy holiday traffic, maintaining the 100 kph limit and deciding not to try and leap frog the 6 or 7 cars ahead as all were progressing at the same 100 kph and not holding anyone up, when I was subjected to a might roar, as another bike decided to pass all of us before the oncoming corner, sexy little girl holding on very tight at the back. I would suggest that she might not live long enough to become a sexy big girl if she maintains that relationship. The Police are never around when needed to nail the really stupid, only the largely law abiding who may stray over the line a bit, or push the speed limit to complete their overtaking as expeditiously as possible.

DON T
28th Dec 2017, 08:29
Why is abbreviation such a long word?

WingNut60
28th Dec 2017, 08:55
My fading memory of the little bit of linguistics that I did many years ago is that concatenation of abbreviations has been a significant vehicle for the evolution of the English language (and, possibly others) over the eons.

tow1709
28th Dec 2017, 08:56
Police Constables have been referred to as PC since the year dot, but when did the abbreviating of the more senior detective ranks in spoken communication become common?

Back in the days of 1960’s Z-Cars, Fancy Smith and Bert Lynch never spoke of DCI Barlow or DS Watt. Instead it was usually Mister Barlow or whoever.

Perhaps it arises from the increased number of reports that our police now have to write, and it is quicker to type “DCI” than “Detective Chief Inspector”, and the habit has now spilled over into the spoken word.

Mechta
28th Dec 2017, 13:03
Anybody that writes in a language where.....

Please excuse Glasshopper.

Anybody WHO writes in a language where.....

Please excuse Dook and Grasshopper.

Anybody WHO writes in a language IN WHICH.....

A language is not a place.

jez d
28th Dec 2017, 13:22
Concerning the art of brevity, the US Postal Service were once given this name and address challenge:

Hill
Nick
Maine

PickyPerkins
28th Dec 2017, 17:19
The site
https://www.acronymfinder.com/TLA.html
Lists about 81 meanings for TLA.

KelvinD
28th Dec 2017, 18:09
One totally uncalled for plural, used our supposed betters, is "pence". I have lost count of the number of times I have heard people such as Steven Fry, say "1 pence"!
And, on the topic of plurals, how about our American cousins? Will they please stop saying "a savings" when they mean "a saving" or "a ways" instead of "a way" (as in "a ways to go").? I know there are a couple more but I can't think of them just now.

DaveReidUK
28th Dec 2017, 18:51
Please excuse Dook and Grasshopper.

Why?

They are both using perfectly acceptable standard English usage.

Ogre
28th Dec 2017, 22:27
Concerning the art of brevity, the US Postal Service were once given this name and address challenge:

Hill
Nick
Maine

There was a similar question in the UK many years ago, the question in that case was

Wood
Brian
Hants

And the full address was Brian UNDERwood, ANDOVER Hants.

So I'm guessing this is something similar.

And on the subject of plurals, "Mathematics" is a general term used to describe a number of specific topics. It is abbreviated as "Maths", not "Math"......

funfly
28th Dec 2017, 22:31
Get annoyed at people who say their child is doing Math.

jonkster
28th Dec 2017, 22:47
but what if they only have one question to do for homework?

WingNut60
28th Dec 2017, 22:50
Get annoyed at people who say their child is doing Math.

Math / maths is not only an abbreviation but is also slang, or so I think.
As such neither should be used in conversation.

In any case, you possibly misheard. May have been meth or meths.

Captain Dart
29th Dec 2017, 01:02
We say 'metho' in Aussie!

Tankertrashnav
29th Dec 2017, 01:13
Great - can we switch to Aussie slang which fascinates me. I was delighted to find out that a miserable bloke was a wowser and a petrol pump was a bowser, so a misery who worked at a filling station could be a bowser wowser :)

I'll be back when I think of some more - probably this arvo!

treadigraph
29th Dec 2017, 01:18
TTN, character in Catch 22, Sergeant Towser played by Norman Fell.

Ogre
29th Dec 2017, 01:42
I'll be back when I think of some more - probably this arvo!

I look forward to it, as long as you don't fall ill and get taken away by the Ambos! You can spend some time relaxing in your tracky daks and thongs, listening to acca dacca and sinking an amber nectar or two......

I'm off to hoon down the bottle-o with my esky to pick up a case of cab sav and some tinnies, then back home for my cut lunch and watch the cricket

Ascend Charlie
29th Dec 2017, 07:37
miserable bloke was a wowser

TTN, a Wowser is usually some religious person who disapproves of anything which might be fun.

Bowser is the name of my dog. Sometimes he is called Bowsie-Wowsie as he is a little effeminate.

meadowrun
29th Dec 2017, 11:45
To hell with Aussie slang...sometimes the language is tougher....


Afferbeck Lauder was the pseudonym used by Alastair Ardoch Morrison (21 September 1911 – 15 March 1998), an Australian graphic artist and author who in the 1960s documented Strine in the song With Air Chew and a series of books beginning with Let Stalk Strine (Ure Smith, Sydney, Australia, 1965). Morrison illustrated the books and also used the pseudonym Al Terego.


Let Stalk Strine was followed by Nose Tone Unturned (1967), Fraffly Well Spoken (1968), and Fraffly Suite (1969). The first two presented Australian written phonetically to appear as another language, the next two lampooned the clipped, almost strangled variety of upper-class English speech in the same way. The titles, and the author pseudonym, are all examples in themselves (Afferbeck Lauder = alphabetical order). Some further examples are:

Strine

"Spewffle climber treely" - It's a beautiful climate, really
"Emma chisit" - How much is it ?
"Egg nishner" - air-conditioner

TWT
29th Dec 2017, 12:26
'Wowser' is word I've never heard any Australian use in conversation ( and I'm 57 ).

The tendency to abbreviate words is very much part of the 'culture' though.

DaveReidUK
29th Dec 2017, 12:29
The tendency to abbreviate words is very much part of the 'culture' though.

Cut the end off any normal word, then add an "o", and you can't go far wrong. :O

G-CPTN
29th Dec 2017, 13:03
Graduate mathematicians are known as Mathmos.

Bull at a Gate
30th Dec 2017, 05:37
I am an Australian. I am 59. I have used “wowser” in a conversation, along with “dinkum”, “streuth”, and “dinki di”.

WingNut60
30th Dec 2017, 06:01
Cut the end off any normal word, then add an "o", and you can't go far wrong. :O

Good example of a pom getting it wrong.
Most common affix is "ie" - not "o".

Tinnie, bikkie, cossie(?), etc.
"O" not so much. Especially since we toned down our attitude towards our indigeni.

Hydromet
30th Dec 2017, 06:34
'Wowser' is word I've never heard any Australian use in conversation ( and I'm 57 ).
I'm 71 and have both used it and heard it used, fairly recently. 'Dinkum' & 'strewth' I've also used, not so recently, and 'dinki di' has always put me on alert, as it sounds too contrived.

jolihokistix
30th Dec 2017, 06:40
Re: spell it, vs spell it out.

No, there is a difference, or do I have to spell it out?

ExRAFRadar
30th Dec 2017, 10:33
Yesterday my granddaughter showed me a YouTube clip: Stupid American Girl. Watch it and weep.

Just watched that clip. Was Trump her teacher?

goudie
30th Dec 2017, 13:41
The one bit of slang that really annoys me is putting 'azza, ezza etc into people's names. I know someone who refers to her children as Bazza and Bezza aka Barry and Beverly!

Where'd that come from.

UniFoxOs
30th Dec 2017, 15:35
Where'd that come from.

Dunno, but seems to have become popular because headline writers need to get names to a size that will fit the page.

Round here abbreviates or pet names were always -cker, as in "acker" for Harry, or -o as in Jacko for Jackson, Jonno, Tommo etc.

First time I remember hearing the -zza ending was a fair while ago, (1960s?) when ISTR hearing a Barry Crocker record using Bazza as a short name.

My fading memory of the little bit of linguistics that I did many years ago is that concatenation of abbreviations has been a significant vehicle for the evolution of the English language (and, possibly others) over the eons.

The English language has evolved to be more concise and powerful than any other as can easily be recognised by watching a TV news bulletin, where a celeb/pollie/plod or whatever is interviewed in his/her own language. Their spoken contribution continues for much longer than it takes me to read aloud the English subtitles, sometimes two or three times as long.

Ascend Charlie
30th Dec 2017, 19:27
Well you may make fun of the Oz way of deriving slang, but what about the pommy "Crimbo" for Xmas?
Buttie?
All that Cockney rhyming slang?
Pot, meet kettle. I think I'll go make an Em Semmitch, it will only take a garbler mince. Jim makier bare jet, Cheryl? Wine checker mauve wren talker battered?

ORAC
30th Dec 2017, 20:26
£sd was pronounced ell-ess-dee or otherwise referred to as "pounds, shillings and pence"... which was even better since the "pence" bore no apparent relation to the "d"! Libre, sesterce, denarii...

Ogre
30th Dec 2017, 22:17
I'm 71 and have both used it and heard it used, fairly recently. 'Dinkum' & 'strewth' I've also used, not so recently, and 'dinki di' has always put me on alert, as it sounds too contrived.

I worked for a true blue Aussie who was very calm and collected, but if he was heard to utter "fair dinkum" it was a sign that he was very exasperated and if was the closest you got to him swearing

Loose rivets
31st Dec 2017, 02:25
but what if they only have one question to do for homework?

:ok:

I tried to be extra English while in Texas. Gets one brownie points, ya know. But Math-em-at-ics. Oh, YUK!!! Math is becoming the norm for me.


Oz speak? I kind of like it.

'Hello, Bruce. You goin to the farm?'

'Yes, Bruce, I am.'

'Okay, Bruce. When you get to the bottom don't forget to hang a lefty.'

'Oh, thanks Bruce. Good on ya for tellin me that, I might have gone into the cork-danglin', fly-swalloin' billybong swill and got a right bollikin' from Matilda if yer'd not told me.'

'No worries, Bruce. A mate's a mate . . . unless of course, he's not called Bruce.'

feueraxt
31st Dec 2017, 03:31
These are the frequently confused words that I find most irritating when they are used incorrectly.

First, the big three:

. loose - lose
. breaks - brakes
. their - they're

Followed by, in no particular order:

. too - to
. busses - buses
. assure - ensure - insure
. enquire - inquire
. pole - poll
. accept - except
. whose - who's
. stationery - stationary
. principle - principal
. affect - effect
. farther - further
. bare - bear
. advice - advise
. born - borne
. hoard - horde

TWT
31st Dec 2017, 03:46
. aisle - isle

Hydromet
31st Dec 2017, 06:21
The one I always have trouble is compliment-complement. Whatever I put always looks wrong, even though I know which is which.

eckhard
31st Dec 2017, 06:42
Decent - descent
It’s - its
Weather - whether
Affected - effected

Written notices not finishing a question with a question mark, as in:
Please could you turn off the lights.

Let’s hope doctors know the difference between proscribed and prescribed!

My current bugbear: Less instead of Fewer!

Ogre
31st Dec 2017, 07:13
Reading some of the on-line news reports in the last couple of weeks, it would appear that the more experienced reporters are taking a couple of weeks off and leaving the younger hacks in charge. Some of the grammar is appalling, they could at least spell check it before they post...

ExSp33db1rd
31st Dec 2017, 07:21
In NZ .... when spoken ..... Woman as the plural ( instead of wimmen )

FAR CU
31st Dec 2017, 08:19
The Sydney Morning Herald reporter who covered the start of the Sydney - Hobart yacht race last Tuesday said that a yacht was doing 22 knots per hour as it sailed through Sydney Heads.

FAR CU
31st Dec 2017, 08:24
Don Watson's 'Dictionary of Weasel Words' is a must read for all who are aggrieved by the misuse of our language.

QUOTE -


The prime minister speaks of core and non-core election promises, your boss asks you to commit to an involuntary career event (you're fired), and hospitals refer to negative patient outcomes (you're dead). How to fight back? ...

FAR CU
31st Dec 2017, 08:46
And another good read is this one by a very dinkum Australian.

'Wowsers' : Being an Account of the Prudery Exhibited by

Certain Outstanding Men and Women in Such Matters as

Drinking, Smoking, Prostitution, Censorship and Gambling
Book by Keith Dunstan


Incidentally, Keith Dunstan wrote a riveting autobiography
he called 'No Brains At All' The choice and reason for

that title is itself most droll. For those of an aeronautical

bent, the author's account of his time as a pilot in the wartime
RAAF, is likewise worth the read.


Another talented man of letters, who served in Bomber Command as

a navigator, was Sydney-sider , the late Ross Campbell.

His book, 'An Urge to Laugh',is among my most treasured items.

jonkster
31st Dec 2017, 08:47
The Sydney Morning Herald reporter who covered the start of the Sydney - Hobart yacht race last Tuesday said that a yacht was doing 22 knots per hour as it sailed through Sydney Heads.

it was accelerating...

Hydromet
31st Dec 2017, 10:48
In today's Sun-Herald, and article about the opera house theatre named for Australia's greatest soprano, La Stupenda, Dame Joan Sullivan!

TWT
31st Dec 2017, 13:28
Close enough :}. That's about as accurate as most online news outlets these days..

Winemaker
31st Dec 2017, 15:34
"Yesterday my granddaughter showed me a YouTube clip: Stupid American Girl. Watch it and weep."

Ladies, gentlemen, please, the video is a joke! She's pulling your leg, yanking your chain(s). She's actually really smart and having you on. She's posted other similarly amusing videos on YouTube. We're not all stupid here in the US of A!

Loose rivets
31st Dec 2017, 15:47
And then there was William Archibald Spooner and the National Hunt Cup.

Fifty years on I still feel sorry for the BBC (live) announcer.



Affect and effect. I've taken a course on the difference, but still hesitate just about every time I use either.

It's having a strange affect on me.:}

hiflymk3
31st Dec 2017, 16:58
Was that eether or ither?

Alycidon
31st Dec 2017, 19:04
Insure- Ensure, there is a difference, but the Americans always use insure.

NRU74
31st Dec 2017, 20:05
[QUOTE Affect and effect. I've taken a course on the difference, but still hesitate just about every time I use either[/QUOTE]

We were told at school the approximate rule was r.a.v.e.n.
Remember affect verb effect noun.
But... of course, effect is occasionally used as a verb.

Slow Biker
31st Dec 2017, 20:05
On a post GW 1 detachment to Iraq one of our 'minders' liked to discuss the English language. Words as listed by feueraxt at #119 puzzled him most. Weather/whether was another one. Sometimes hard to explain, but it passed the time during lengthy drives.

tdracer
31st Dec 2017, 20:17
Reading some of the on-line news reports in the last couple of weeks, it would appear that the more experienced reporters are taking a couple of weeks off and leaving the younger hacks in charge. Some of the grammar is appalling, they could at least spell check it before they post...

Ogre, it hasn't just been the last couple of weeks - news reporting has been going gradually down hill for years.
I think it a combination of two things - first, the rush to post/publish ASAP (driven by the 24/7 news coverage).
Second, an increasing unwillingness to question 'too good to be true' stories if they fit the reporters existing bias.

Sallyann1234
1st Jan 2018, 09:40
Second, an increasing unwillingness to question 'too good to be true' stories if they fit the reporters existing bias.
Since we are requesting the correct grammar, it would be good to use the apostrophe when required, so that readers would know whether one reporter or several were being discussed. :ok:

FullOppositeRudder
1st Jan 2018, 10:19
Weather/whether was another one.It can get even more complicated. There is a third spelling - wether - a desexed male sheep or goat. It's probably only used in agricultural and livestock circles, so it can advisedly escape usage and explanation in most other conversational situations.

Greeb
1st Jan 2018, 11:31
Great - can we switch to Aussie slang which fascinates me. I was delighted to find out that a miserable bloke was a wowser and a petrol pump was a bowser, so a misery who worked at a filling station could be a bowser wowser :)

I'll be back when I think of some more - probably this arvo!

G’day.

Australia is about the only country where you may refer to a dark horse as being a fair cow and be perfectly understood :}

Ascend Charlie
2nd Jan 2018, 06:24
I knew a woman who was pretty ugly.

Karearea
2nd Jan 2018, 06:51
Was her dress a little big?

eckhard
2nd Jan 2018, 07:09
There is a third spelling - wether - a desexed male sheep or goat.

Which then begs two questions:

1. Whither goes a wether when affected by the effects of withering weather?

2. I wonder whether that wether would wander and wither due to the effects of the weather coming hither?

FAR CU
2nd Jan 2018, 08:12
Quote:
i knew a woman who was pretty ugly.

"Breast enlargement and nose job pronounced failure."

KelvinD
2nd Jan 2018, 08:37
eckhard: At some time in the late 70s, there was a spell of bad weather in Jeddah, with floods causing all manner of misery. The local newspaper published, under the weather section, something along the lines of "There is no weather today, due to the weather. Whether or not there will be weather tomorrow depends on the weather"!

eckhard
2nd Jan 2018, 09:52
Indeed!!!!

funfly
2nd Jan 2018, 16:59
Biggest

I hate it when that is used, generally by some young 'trendy' BBC female.

DaveReidUK
2nd Jan 2018, 17:09
Biggest

I hate it when that is used, generally by some young 'trendy' BBC female.

That's not nearly as bad as when a lady uses the word "smallest".

Slow Biker
2nd Jan 2018, 19:45
I can't help myself muttering 'fewer' when I hear a supposedly educated TV journalist using the dreaded 'less' word when it should be 'fewer'. I am informed by Mrs SB that the offender cannot hear me. As my English teacher (Mrs English!) would say: Less coal, fewer sacks.

DaveReidUK
2nd Jan 2018, 20:29
I am informed by Mrs SB that the offender cannot hear me. As my English teacher (Mrs English!) would say: Less coal, fewer sacks.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I heard my wife saying we were going to have less sacks in future.

At least I think that's what she said.

Ogre
2nd Jan 2018, 22:07
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I heard my wife saying we were going to have less sacks in future.

At least I think that's what she said.

There was a certain suburb in the capital of Scotland which has a reputation for being very posh (dunno if it still is....). The jokes used to run that in this area "sex was what the coal came in, and a creche was when two cars had a coming together..."

My memory must be going though, when I last approached the memsahib and suggested some conjugal activity the response was "...if you're thinking about what I'm thinking about you've had it..."

feueraxt
3rd Jan 2018, 04:13
Biggest

I hate it when that is used, generally by some young 'trendy' BBC female.

I have, on occassion, heard people say "biggerer" in lieu of "bigger".

G-CPTN
3rd Jan 2018, 04:21
big, bigger, biggerest . . .

Karearea
3rd Jan 2018, 07:26
I have heard, "I'd better do this, bettn't I"...

mgahan
3rd Jan 2018, 08:54
One of my Asian friends says, "Better, more than ..."

MJG

FAR CU
3rd Jan 2018, 09:50
One of my Asian friends says, "Better, more than ..."

MJG

that's a bit like "T'is improvin' - WORSE!" - an Irishman 's remark regarding the present weather.



good, better, best
never let it rest
till your good is better
and your better best

Ascend Charlie
3rd Jan 2018, 11:23
Eckhard, the ditty goes:

"A farmer who had a sick wether
wondered whether the wether would weather the weather,
or whether the wether would die."

jolihokistix
3rd Jan 2018, 11:30
Or the old chestnut:


Whether the weather be cold,
Or whether the weather be hot,
We'll weather the weather,
Whatever the weather,
Whether we like it or not.

eckhard
3rd Jan 2018, 11:43
Thanks Ascend Charlie!

Steamer Ned
4th Jan 2018, 12:14
Can't help wondering ... whatever happened to Bloom after the weird rant that started all this off?

jonkster
4th Jan 2018, 20:27
he made a spelling mistake and was banned.

Loose rivets
4th Jan 2018, 22:53
I made up names for the X and the squares at the top right of browsers etc. I suggested Biggerize the picture and of course, Smalerize it. I suppose the - could be hiderize. :rolleyes:

Folk on prune seemed to think it was funny all those years ago but it never kort on. Pity, it's kind of functionally descriptive.
.
.
.
.

Sallyann1234
4th Jan 2018, 23:14
Folk on prune seemed to think it was funny all those years ago but it never court on. Pity, it's kind of functionally descriptive.
Don't you authors spell-check what you write? :E
Especially on a thread like this. :}

Loose rivets
4th Jan 2018, 23:41
Terrible, innit? I looked at court for ages but just could not see the word I wanted. But then, I've hollered long and loud about dyslexia and the old hands on here will perhaps recall some of my posts.

I read well, staying up most nights until 2am reading or listening to lectures about astrophysics. I just can't see words when I come to spell them. Strangely, my hands on the keyboard seem to know how to spell. If I have to think about it, I'm not much better than when I was a yoof. The Rivetess learned to translate my letters. Perhaps a good job they were not decipherable to others. :E

Thinking about making a crack about my hands being able to spell decipherable, I clearly recall letting the word flow out of my hands because I couldn't see it. Not such a great mystery when when is also interested in neuroscience.

I have a friend who occasionally misspells a word so bizarrely that no one would believe he was being serious. He's got more types on his licence than you can shake a stick at. Goodness knows how we passed our ATPLs back in the days of long handwritten answers.

P.S. I've corrected my spelling.

P.P.S. One of my main reasons for talking about dyslexia is to mention how cheese makes my vision jazz when I'm looking at text. Nothing else, just text. Oh, that's not quite true, parallel bars are troublesome, like the rings on a captains sleeve. One, two and three are fine, but I've never been able to tell if it's four. Except that if I can't tell, I know what it is.

60 years old and I stopped eating cheese. Lines of text are generally much smoother to read and it leads me to believe that if I'd known this as a kid, I would have been better at spelling. So, if one narrows down a child's problem to not seeing words in the mind's eye, it might be helpful to try taking them of sources of Tryptophan. Cheese and chocolate I feel are the worst offenders.

.
.
.
.

DaveReidUK
5th Jan 2018, 07:37
Don't you authors spell-check what you write?

The OP didn't make a spelling error, so a spell-checker wouldn't have helped.

They used the wrong word, but spelt it correctly. :O

Sallyann1234
5th Jan 2018, 09:38
The OP didn't make a spelling error, so a spell-checker wouldn't have helped.

They used the wrong word, but spelt it correctly. :O
Yew ah write :O

funfly
5th Jan 2018, 15:46
five is aparently the largest number of objects you can know how many without actually counting them.

chuks
6th Jan 2018, 03:49
That original post was interesting.

Did the person who started this thread know the difference between spelling a word, and spelling something out, since those are two different things?

Did alcohol play a role in starting this thread?

I think we should be told!

Never mind ... back to watching the "Gorilla Channel."

FullOppositeRudder
6th Jan 2018, 04:47
Can't help wondering ... whatever happened to Bloom after the weird rant that started all this off?

My theory is that he / she is undertaking research for a thesis on "Thread Drift" and has discovered that JB offers almost unlimited opportunities for subject material of the highest intellectual quality ..... :E

Loose rivets
7th Jan 2018, 00:19
. . . which leads me to a boat I'm fettling that's fitted with a fully gymballed thyronimiser.