New cold war RAF pictures

[Nige321]

Some cracking 50s/60s RAF pictures here. Appears to be a new book.

Link here... (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5174341/Incredible-images-Britains-Cold-War-RAF-1950-70.html)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/13/12/4747DE9000000578-5174341-These_highly_evocative_colour_images_from_a_single_remarkabl e_Ai-m-84_1513167222097.jpg

[rolling20]

Absolutely delicious!

[Cows getting bigger]

Marvellous.

[Barksdale Boy]

With regard to Seriousman's post on the Link, I can assure him that the QRA facilities at Waddo resembled no hotel that I've ever stayed in.

[ian16th]

The bitterness to temper the sweetness of those wonderful pictures.

In the photo of the 3 V-Bombers from 1958, the Valiant, XD869, is the a/c that features in this Pprune thread. (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/358970-valiant-xd869-crash-marham-1959-a.html?highlight=XD869)

Those days had a human cost.

[Pontius Navigator]

BB, Waddo QRA, the envy of 1Gp, LOL.

Scampton had caravans but Coningsby/Cottesmore had to sleep in the the Officers Mess. At Waddo with its self contained dormitories and rest rooms, sheer luxury :)

[Basil]

Great pics. One of my JP instructors, Roger Pyrah, seen climbing into his Hunter at RAF Khormaksar in 1964.

[Herod]

That picture of the types from Hurricane to Lightning reminds me that somewhere I have an air-to-air picture of them in formation. IIRC the Hunter isn't there. if I find it, I'll post, although I'm sure someone knows a link to it?

[GeeRam]

That picture of the types from Hurricane to Lightning reminds me that somewhere I have an air-to-air picture of them in formation. IIRC the Hunter isn't there. if I find it, I'll post, although I'm sure someone knows a link to it?

Hunter is in these ones taken the same day.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fa/5b/cd/fa5bcd2504315b5b6dc5770da264b89d.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8656/15910012699_d723263f2f_b.jpg

[Herod]

GeeRam. You are right. Blame the memory. That picture was on my study wall, until an enforced move a year or so ago. I know I have it somewhere, but.

[Basil]

Wonderful; Hurricane balls out*, Lightning full flap.

* Lest anyone think rude, look at 19th century steam engine governers.

[judge11]

That shot of the Twin Pin in Kenya is prime material for a caption comp.

[pr00ne]

Newly uncovered?

What?

Those are some of the most well known publicity and recruiting images of the RAF and have appeared hundreds of times in numerous books, magazines and other publicity material.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

That shot of the Twin Pin in Kenya is prime material for a caption comp.
Somebody agreed. It has been.

[Darvan]

The days when Britain had an aircraft manufacturing industry: Avro, Handley Page, Hawker, Gloster, English Electric, Folland, Vickers, et al (all competing for contracts).

[PlasticCabDriver]

Traditionally accurate DM caption:

“A Vampire of 5 Squadron, seen with its Goblin engine characteristically torching on starting up, at RAF West Malling, 2 February 1952. Despite being a popular aircraft, the Vampire was not comfortable to fly. Within the cramped cockpit the pilot and navigator and radar operator sat side by side, the discomfort relieved by the pilot being positioned just slightly forward”

[Pontius Navigator]

That shot of the Twin Pin in Kenya is prime material for a caption comp.

IIRC there is a painting of that scene in the RAF Club.

[Pontius Navigator]

PCD, not entirely inaccurate but could have been better written. As for the Goblin, always brings to mind the Teasmaid and the early morning tea at Nav School.

[Fitter2]

The pics looked familiar - investigating my bookshelf, from Ian Proctor's book, published 2014, ISBN 1783831898.

[NutLoose]

Yes, i put the Twin Pin up as the cap comp pic.

[S'land]

Fitter2

Quite correct.
These images were gathered together in The Royal Air Force in the Cold War, 1950-1970, by Ian Proctor

from the text under the 2nd photograph (Victor).

Even if they have been used many times, they are still excellent mementos of an era when we had a range of aircraft available.

[Herod]

The RAF I was hoping to join. I joined in Dec '64, just before I turned 18. In time for the grounding of the Valiants, scrapping of TSR2 and the policy of withdrawal from east of Suez. Still enjoyed my 12 years though.

[TURIN]

Newly uncovered?

What?

Those are some of the most well known publicity and recruiting images of the RAF and have appeared hundreds of times in numerous books, magazines and other publicity material.

Daily Mail clickbait for the hard of thinking. :rolleyes:

[jindabyne]

Even if they have been used many times, they are still excellent mementos of an era when we had a range of aircraft available

Agree S'land. Don't see an issue.

Happy New Year to all.

[Fareastdriver]

That Lightening picture was to encourage young men like me to join the RAF so we could fly one.

So we did------------and all ended up as V Force co-pilots.

[Pontius Navigator]

FED, but you could have been a Vulcan captain at 23.

Which was the more awesome task? A supersonic Lightning or a nuclear bomb and looking after the safety and well being of a crew, some of whom were older than your father?

[Haraka]

-and all ended up as V Force co-pilots.

Of whom a fair few borderliners then became flying instructors.

Best I say no more.

[Pontius Navigator]

Of whom a fair few borderliners then became flying instructors.

Best I say no more.

And went on to fly for Cathay, poor souls.

[JW411]

I have never stopped thanking God (or whoever else was responsible) for not posting me to the V-force. I would have hated it. Transport Command was so much more fun.

[Pontius Navigator]

JW, then there were the boy pilots sent to ASC as they had 4-Jet experience, JK, JR, LA, Chris L and others.

[Brian 48nav]

I took my 8 year option in '73 and due to lack of Flt Nav jobs joined CAA as an ATCO. After dinner one evening in '77 with 2 old Herc' nav' mates decided I really missed being a transport nav' and applied to rejoin.

Thank goodness I found out that the intended posting for me was the V Force, ( transport being overburdened with navs due to the demise of the Comet, Brit, Belfast and Andover fleets ) - having been a Herc' nav' there was no way you would get me in the back of a Vulcan or Victor. Deathtraps for the rear crew! I declined the offer to rejoin!

[roving]

Brian, probably a very wise decision, but to let you see what you missed ;)

Post war, Waddington hosted a variety of Lancaster and Avro Lincoln squadrons, and, later, Washingtons. The station was put into care and maintenance again in 1953 to prepare it for the V-bomber force.

In June 1954 the Queen approved the RAF Waddington badge, incorporating the towers of Lincoln cathedral, and on 25 April 1959 the station was granted the Freedom of the City of Lincoln. Since then all Waddington aircraft have carried the City Crest.

The station re-opened in June 1955. Two Canberra squadrons moved in and the first Avro Vulcans arrived in May 1957. By August 1961 three squadrons of Vulcans were based at Waddington, and the type remained there until March 1984, its planned retirement having been postponed because of the Falklands conflict.

Waddington provided the Vulcans that bombed Port Stanley and also those hastily modified for air-to-air refuelling duties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGmyE3l65pY&t=157s

[Basil]

I think that's Aubrey Clayphan shaking hands with the Stn. Cdr. at 1:40

OP, Good to see that in the DM. Younger son mentioned it too.

[Basil]

I took my 8 year option in '73 and due to lack of Flt Nav jobs joined CAA as an ATCO. After dinner one evening in '77 with 2 old Herc' nav' mates decided I really missed being a transport nav' and applied to rejoin.

Thank goodness I found out that the intended posting for me was the V Force, ( transport being overburdened with navs due to the demise of the Comet, Brit, Belfast and Andover fleets ) - having been a Herc' nav' there was no way you would get me in the back of a Vulcan or Victor. Deathtraps for the rear crew! I declined the offer to rejoin!
Hi, Brian,
Sometimes not great in front either. Argosy buddy, Simon Farlow, was co-pilot in the one at Chicago.
Unless you planned to go SO/VSO, I'm sure you made the right decision.

[Brian 48nav]

Simon Farlow was doing the Argosy OCU when I was on my Herc' Course - big mates with Mike Preston a 'co-pilot' on my course.

Yes I think you're right - working as an ATCO with CAA suited my work ethic or lack of it! I only carried a briefcase to work because it contained my headset, newspaper and sandwiches. I had no interest in promotion, why work 9-5 for 225 - 230 days a year when I turned up for about 180 days on our shift system. As one of my much older colleagues said, " LATCC or Heathrow were great places to go between days off!". Despite not joining until I was 27, my working ATCO's pension equated to a long time in the rank Wg Cdr's or junior Grp Capt's.

[Basil]

Brian, Can't recollect if I ever asked if you knew Roger Makins, a supervisor at LATCC. He'd flown Meteors in the RAF and was once our neighbour.
As I've said before, I left from a short ATC tour and liked it.
I think the pay and lifestyle of civil ATCO is one of the best kept secrets of aviation related employment.

[Brian 48nav]

I knew Roger Makins by sight but we weren't on the same watch. When I joined in late '73 most ATCOs over the age of 32/33 were ex-military aircrew, mainly navs and siggies/AEOs but with a fair sprinkling of pilots. I doubt there's any now.

Just had ATCO son staying with us - he's on top whack for a working ATCO at Swanwick ( LATCC ) and it's a bit over £110k, which is more than Air Commodore. I would have liked to earn what my Cathay mates were getting at the tail end of the last century!

[MPN11]

As an ex-Mil ATCO, I always knew that my civil colleagues were VERY well paid. I just couldn't see the civil ATC life suiting me. Dare I say 'pedestrian' and 'routine'? You know what I mean.

[Fareastdriver]

In case you haven't seen it; a rerun of the BBC series.

https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/493621-jet-when-britain-ruled-skies-2.html

[RetiredBA/BY]

And went on to fly for Cathay, poor souls.

"......and after becoming QFIs went on to fly with BOAC etc. ! Never looked back,even when sitting over the Atlantic, etc., RHS on a VC10 or LHS in a 767!

".........and with a pension more than the Staish at BZN gets paid !

My son in law, BA 787 training capt., gets an Air Marshall's salary !

Don't knock civil aviation!

[Brian 48nav]

Certainly not boring or routine at LATCC or even Heathrow, the 2 places where I spent the bulk of my ATC career.

Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.

I also did a stint at Boscombe Down, which had always had civilian controllers until CAA lost the contract to Airwork in '92, who then had to be replaced by the RAF in '93. Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!

Oh dear, sounds like a rant but is not intended to be. CAA ATCOs ( now NATS ) particularly at LATCC, SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.

[JW411]

Don't knock civil aviation:

No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.

Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).

I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.

[Basil]

Certainly not boring or routine at LATCC or even Heathrow, the 2 places where I spent the bulk of my ATC career.

Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.
. . . . . .
Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!
. . . . . .
SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.
Having done ATC in the RAF and twice viewed LATCC control rooms, I'd say that, usually the workload in LATCC was higher than we had in the RAF. OK, we had speechless, EF, no compass and everything from Lightning/F4 to Anson/Chipmunk in the circuit but I thought LATCC looked more intense but, I guess you become accustomed to what you have to do.
"Instructing at Shawbury" - ye-e-e-ss. I was at Wyton where we controlled Alconbury as well and, normally we had to obtain pre-release for handover to Area - EXCEPT for the USAF Phantoms.
Bas: Called Area "Two F4s for you."
Area: "Stand by, I'll get you clearance." (Recognised ex-Shawbury instructor's voice.)
Bas: They're airborne prob passing 100.
Area: "YOU HAVE TO HAVE OUR CLEARANCE!"
Bas: "Errm, not for Alconbury. Coming to you on . . ."

SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world
Doing a little Aztec freelancing and flying into LHR one night, I had an engine fire.
I was just outside the Zone under the TMA.
Bas: Mayday etc. etc.
LHR: "Fly heading 240 clear ILS 27L Break Break Lufty *** Go around fly heading 270 climb 3000ft call approach . . ." (Just like that!)
Bas: Thinks HTF did he know I was going to call with a Mayday?? :confused:

[Herod]

I'd agree with Heathrow controllers being good. Having flown there in aircraft with performance ranges from Shorts 3-60 to B 737, I found that provided you did exactly as you were told, it all worked incredibly smoothly, even fitting a Shorts in between two jumbos. Then again, I guess you don't become a controller at LHR unless you are damn good to begin with.

[Basil]

Don't knock civil aviation:

No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.

Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).

I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.
A couple of comments:
The only reason for going to Cathay for a career was the big money, now long gone. Fancied them at one time but so glad I went to a Western airline and just went CX for five years after retirement.
I knew a couple of people who never flew again after the RAF, possibly because they didn't want to be sitting there as a FO for years. As I'm sure you know, it all depended on the captain; some were easy and a few were prats.
The RAF did not have a monopoly on competent and relaxed pilots although, I think, RAF training DID enhance handling confidence.

"was earning about the same as an AVM"
As Brian 48nav says, civil ATCO is very well paid and, whilst not best pleased at the time, I always felt RAF ATCO gave me a Plan B if a medical condition took me off piloting but not ATC.

I've liked everything I've done: MN, RAF Pilot & ATCO, Civil Aviation.
If I had to do it all again it would be:
School to 18 (iso 15) CCF for mil prep
RAF pilot - Short as poss. Defo mil trg.
Civil aviation

or:
Eng degree
City trader

or:
Consultant surgeon (Defo not dentist or GP)

or:
Perhaps I have too high an opinion of my abilities ;)

[rolling20]

I've liked everything I've done: MN, RAF Pilot & ATCO, Civil Aviation.
If I had to do it all again it would be:
School to 18 (iso 15) CCF for mil prep
RAF pilot - Short as poss. Defo mil trg.
Civil aviation

or:
Eng degree
City trader

or:
Consultant surgeon (Defo not dentist or GP)

or:
Perhaps I have too high an opinion of my abilities ;)

Basil, after sampling the life on the UAS , I decided to fall back on my second choice, a City Trader. Within 5 years of leaving uni, I was earning more than the CAS. Now much older, my chosen career leaves scope for little else. Ageism in the industry is rife and it has suffered terribly from technology and regulation killing jobs. One guy I used to work with now drives a bus. At UAS reunions years ago, everyone used to ask for share tips and envied my position. These days I realise it was never a foundation for anything and look at x UAS members still serving, or with airlines, with envy.

[Marcantilan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4tmesvW8AQTB0P.jpg

Find this one. Interesting. An ASW Buccaneer...

[roving]

For those undecided as to whether currently a civilian or military career controlling UK air space offers more fun ... this may help:

1icV6FUfuAw

[roving]

If still undecided Part II may help ...

TFP9smpD6Ow

[roving]

Or even part III

vekWOd4rjeo

OR PART IV

FVLnYP832JI

And finally Part V

v9aToOfb63I

[Basil]

roving, haven't looked through your videos yet but they DO, at first glance, appear to have some points of interest :E

[Basil]

Marcantilan, NOT what you want to see at periscope depth!

We almost hit one coming up to periscope depth on the River Clyde some years ago.
We were sailing, so no noise, and some poor sub commander, possibly on his final check (known in the RN, I believe, as The Perisher, not without good reason) hadn't noticed us and almost lost his periscope and radar array.
I saw it and being hard on the wind could easily bear away. The sub didn't appear to be making much way and I reckon we went over his foredeck.

[3caster]

Those were the days when the Defence budget was greater than the NHS, Education or Social Security.

[cynicalint]

Roving,
If you look really carefully at Pt 5, you can see someone acting as a passenger or instructor in the right hand seat. though without the high-vis vest he would've been invisible. Thank goodness for high-vis, eh?

[Herod]

Thank goodness for high-vis, eh?

Hi-vis vests are dangerous. This century, almost all of the people injured on UK airfields have been wearing hi-vis vests. You can prove almost anything with statistics. ;)

[ricardian]

RAF in 1960 (rather stilted dialogue)