Xmas Sickout?

[Arfur Dent]

How goes the plot Traf?

[Farman Biplane]

Seemed to be an unusually large number of “reserved” CXxyz plated cars in the car park.
The pilot managers wouldn’t use their parking when not on duty would they?
It is against the worker pilots’ parking rules to use the car park for vacations!

[enoughisenough_]

Traf is too busy working. There was no sickout.

[checklistcomplete]

What a cowardly lot.
Traf has expressed his views these past months and endeavored to rally the troops for what many believe is the right way to proceed to protect our industry and careers. The fact that most did not have the guts to take personal action is not his fault and yet you seem to be focusing your anger ( perhaps disappointment ) on him. I suggest you withdraw your comments or at least apologise to Traf.

PS most of you will have to get your wives permission to do this but try anyway.

[McNulty]

Relentless whinging non inspirational? Who would have thought it.

[Oasis]

The only point of action of that nature is if everyone joins in.
This takes direction from the union. If you don't agree with the current stance/strategy of the union, you can change it by joining the gc or raising motions, or start your own union.

[gulliBell]

If guys won't stop working when 49 colleagues are fired for no reason, why would they down tools for a measly $35k?
And as long as the planes are a flying, the cuts will keep a coming. So bend over for the next round, and the next and the next, until we park the jets. It's the ONLY thing they will listen to.

Exactly. But please don't park the jets because I am a CX shareholder.

[cxorcist]

Relentless whinging non inspirational? Who would have thought it.

What would it take to inspire the likes of you? Near impossible task to turn cowards into warriors.

[McNulty]

I apologize for my cowardly behaviour, perhaps one day I'll have the balls to bitch and moan ceaselessly on an anonymous forum like a true warrior!

[mngmt mole]

It's interesting reading these comments. Starting off with attacking Traf, as though the messenger is the problem, and not the reason for the message. It seems those that are sarcastically taunting him are quietly pleased that perhaps there isn't a crewing problem over the holidays (and we don't know the facts, so any comment is immature and ignorant in their facts). The message promoted by Traf and others is valid. We (the pilot group collectively) have been abused, insulted, treated with contempt and disrespect. If that isn't enough to convince every pilot in this airline to send a 'personal' message to management that such behaviour won't be tolerated, well, as Traf has said, you WILL get the 'career' you deserve. On the basis of some of your comments, it is apparent that the career, and profession is on it's last legs in CX. I pity most of the younger pilots here (at least the one's foolish enough to stay). You will be at the start of what will prove to be decades of frustration and broken hopes. All because you can't or won't listen the simple facts of history, ably relayed to you by the likes of Traf, CR and others. "None is so blind as those who will not see".

[cxorcist]

Enjoy your 2 to 3 decades of abuse at the hands of Swire. Curious to see how much whinging you’ll be doing down the road...

For me, Traf’s comments are a call to arms, as if Swire bullets flying over our heads isn’t enough. Spineless group of cowards! Christmas bonuses are arbitrarily removed from Captains and not even a fart’s worth of reaction except on here and Yammer. Both serving as mediums for venting in the place of action. Pathetic! At least I’m enjoying my month off...

Btw McNulty, I’ve heard you do plenty of whinging about the last TA not passing. Nonstop even.

[mngmt mole]

Cxorcist. Good and sage comments. As for McNulty (and many others), I frequently click on their usernames and then select 'find more posts by...". Always interesting to see the hypocrisy revealed. It constantly amazes me (and no doubt our management) how pathetically weak and whipped our pilots are (and allow themselves to be). As you say, the Captains (and effectively all the aircrew) have been deliberately targeted and abused, AT THE HOLIDAY PERIOD, and they still won't send the 'needed message' or, meekly suggest the AOA needs to 'organise' it. When I was in the airforce, people demonstrating such weakness of character were quickly weeded out. I now see where they ended up.

[joblow]

This is simply a repeat of 99 when the few, brave enough to resist, took action whilst the majority of spineless individuals took extreme measures to hide the fact that they were still going to work .
I give up , trying to convince this weak pathetic bunch that if they just once stood together it would all be over in a week or two and you would never be attacked again . But management needs to be convinced that we would all collectively be prepared to walk.
I was disgusted in 99 and I’m equally disgusted today . Traf has spent hours writing the truth and trying to urge you to find the courage to stand up for your contract .
All I can say is that I would hate to go into any kind situation where my life depended upon the backing of the majority of You lot

[mngmt mole]

Just read a few posts on Yammer, where some of my colleagues are displaying acute naivety. They are attempting to give credence to supposed comments from RH where he said that the issue of $35K to everyone except the Captains was 'out of his hands', and was imposed by Air China. Seriously?, the CEO of CX, and the majority shareholder couldn't make that decision on his own? Good grief. However, it was perfectly ok to give all the cabin crew not only a full 13th month, but a PAY RAISE as well. And we aren't even touching on the fact that most of the senior Swire management awarded themselves pay raises, in some cases of almost 100%%%%. Stop playing the 'useful idiot' and legitimizing what is the worst airline management in the modern world. RH made this decision, in agreement with his other management staff deliberately to slap the Captains (and by association, all pilots). If you can't see that, then your judgement is suspect (or your allegiance). Again, what are YOU doing over the current holiday period?

[enoughisenough_]

We shouldn't have to resort to individual action. Isn't the whole point of a Union a collective voice? If we can't even organise industrial action through them, or stop people accepting training roles or working on their days off, then we have no hope. A few guys taking individual action is nothing but a small inconvenience to crew controllers.

[Dragon69]

When I was in the airforce, people demonstrating such weakness of character were quickly weeded out. I now see where they ended up.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but the above comment hit a nerve. In the last dispute the biggest non-participants of MSS were actually the ex air force boys. So this notion that you are ex military and therefore you have honor, courage and integrity is complete :mad:. Look no further than our senior pilot managers to see how many of them are ex air force.

[mngmt mole]

Yes, there is some truth to what you say. Perhaps the point is that CX seems to have an innate ability to hire people who don't seem to have courage when it's needed most. From either side of the Civ/Mil divide. Sad.

[ron burgandy]

There’s normally a valid reason for why someone is a Cat D FO, the idiot on yammer having a conversation with himself is a perfect example.
One flight deck visit from RH and he’s sold that it’s all out of the CEO’s hands. Moron.
And as for the rest of you who can’t fathom taking action without the union holding your hand, ponder this.
What do you think is more risky; the union organising a sick out or strike, or a large number of supposedly intelligent people doing what needs to be done without presenting the company with an easy target?

It really is very simple, they steal your 13th month, you get angry, you’re distracted and you are unfit to fly.
It’s not hard, it doesn’t take a directive from the union, and it’s absolutely the safest course of action, industrially speaking, for the greatest effect.
Stop waiting for someone else to tell you what to do, so you can shunt the responsibility to someone else. FFS.

[mngmt mole]

Mommies boys/girls. Nearly all of them. A thought: if you were a platoon of soldiers behind enemy lines, would you, a) wait for instructions from headquarters (from the morons that probably got you in the predicament in the first place), or b) take initiative to save your own backsides? Answers on a very small postcard. What are you doing over the holidays?

[Dragon69]

Aside from a few angry mob, most are sitting on the fence, and thanks to AMP I doubt anyone going to stick their heads above the parapet for the greater good. So unless an escalated action is organized by our union, the probability of anything more happening than the whinging on Yammer and Prune is zero. And no I'm not new, if you think otherwise than your naive or dreaming.

[mngmt mole]

'then'. Moving on. Like many here, I am leaving soon, so the effort required is on the back of those who actually seek a career of value and meaning. Funny thing is, even though nothing will benefit me personally, I am still doing my part this season. Mainly because of the personal insult that this management imparted. I don't need a union to tell me to stand up for myself. Shame about the majority on that score however.

[mngmt mole]

You know what the tragedy of it all is? It's the fact that we've effectively done this to ourselves. Cowardice, self-serving, lazy, naive, feckless. All the things I feel about our management, and only a small bit of analytical thinking leads one to conclude the same traits describe ourselves. The pilots of CX will have the careers they deserve, either way. It is up to us how it turns out, but on current evidence, get used to being treated even worse than you already are.

[cxorcist]

Don’t you softies realize that RH, AT, and DP are literally laughing at us behind closed doors? They think we are a bunch of spineless blowhard cowards, and they are right. I’ve never been more embarrassed to be a CX pilot than I am right now. The vast majority of you bring me shame. :mad: pathetic lot of weaklings. Good thing this isn’t a fighting unit. Our country would be in big trouble.

[mngmt mole]

I can't but help agree. The company management threw a deliberate provocation at us to see how we would react (13th month). Predictably (based on 25 yrs of evidence), we collectively lived up to our usual low standards of personal accountability and responsibility. I too feel ashamed. Was in dispatch last week (after seeing the Dr., you know, off 'unfit') and saw all those keen faces diligently checking the paperwork. All the while putting another nail in their own career coffins. And it will prove so as I sit writing this, and tomorrow, and the next day, and....

[mngmt mole]

Our pilots can't even learn from the lessons right in front of them. The company conceded to the FAU, but not to us. Why do you think that is? Embarrassing.

[cxorcist]

I’ll say it before some invertebrate beats me to it... “The FA have less to lose, blah, blah, blah.” Another weak and tired excuse for why spineless CX pilots cannot take action.

[Average Fool]

It won’t be long before the pilots have little to lose.

[mngmt mole]

The smart ones are actively making plans to leave. Those that stay will regret their choice. What a shadow of it's former self is the CX of today.

[Dragon69]

Contract Compliance hasn't worked, nor do I foresee trainers ever resigning, even if they did, the company has options, threats of dismissal, hiring outside trainers, etc. So if you truly believe that an escalation is just a dream, and would never work, you're essentially admitting that there's absolutely no hope, in which case why waste your time with prune. Why even bother with a union for that matter.

[Brokeidiot]

The same reason 90% of the members are part of the union... loss of license insurance. They do nothing for us the little wins is always just wins that the GC personally want.

[Trafalgar]

As usual a370, you miss the point (and I suspect you have done for most of your life). It's not about the amount of money, it's about the principle of excluding the Captains and what that says about respect and value. That is what needs to be addressed, and can only be done so by each individual pilot. If the pilots of CX don't value themselves and their profession, then they will have the careers they deserve. That is internal to us. As i've said to you before, I don't quite understand why you are concerned about what goes on here at CX (although I do appreciate you were rejected by them earlier in your 'career'). Please keep posting however, as it is always entertaining to witness immaturity and envy first hand.

[Air Profit]

There’s normally a valid reason for why someone is a Cat D FO, the idiot on yammer having a conversation with himself is a perfect example.
One flight deck visit from RH and he’s sold that it’s all out of the CEO’s hands. Moron.
And as for the rest of you who can’t fathom taking action without the union holding your hand, ponder this.
What do you think is more risky; the union organising a sick out or strike, or a large number of supposedly intelligent people doing what needs to be done without presenting the company with an easy target?

It really is very simple, they steal your 13th month, you get angry, you’re distracted and you are unfit to fly.
It’s not hard, it doesn’t take a directive from the union, and it’s absolutely the safest course of action, industrially speaking, for the greatest effect.
Stop waiting for someone else to tell you what to do, so you can shunt the responsibility to someone else. FFS.

The FO in question. I don't appreciate someone who actually did get some of his 13th month quickly and patronizingly 'confirming' what the CEO told him (no surprise why he's not a Captain....). The naivety is beyond belief in his comments. There's always one.

[Trafalgar]

Just read the 'Weekly Liar' post. The truth of the matter will determine the fate of all the pilots at this airline as it pertains to the value of a 'career'. I caution every single pilot in this company: your individual actions will determine whether you have a career here worth the name. If you are not taking part in reinforcing your value, then you will be responsible for the collapse of the profession in CX (and your own career). No way around that. Each individual will enjoy the career they deserve.

[joblow]

Traf , I hate to say it but if the majority are not prepared to do something over the last slap in the face , their career course has already been set and it’s only going to go downhill at an ever accelerating pace

[checklistcomplete]

This naive FO who posted the comments when RH visited the flight deck is obviously and idiot and I am afraid typical of the characters we fly with today. They can divided into several groups.

First we have the SO's. So wet behind the ears in every way. Little or no experience in aviation, jets, life or the real world. Few have ever heard of industrial action and in any case they mostly live with their parents who wouldn't condone such action or they live with their CC girlfriends who tell them what to do and when.

Second we have the FO's who come from countries where they are no longer wanted or needed. Their passports are effectively holding them prisoner and they have to hang out for a permanent HKID card and then apply for an HKG passport before they migrate to Perth. They all reside on South Lantau and would work for free if asked.

Thirdly we have the local senior FO's who are playing the waiting game for all the expat captains to retire or leave. Some jumping to HKA if they can but certainly not interested in rocking the CX boat.

Fourthly the Canadians and Aussies who can't go back because they are too old to get into Air Canada or Qantas and the prospect of GA flying from where most of them came terrifies them.

Fifthly, the golden handcuffed senior captains. Too old to move, too tired to make an effort and too disappointed with the first four categories to give a dam about the airline they built.

[mngmt mole]

So, effectively an asian-ified (not a real word I know) career wasteland is all that can be expected. A rather bleak outcome. It will be interesting to hear the moaning and whining over the coming months when the company attacks even more of our pay and benefits. Of course, the moaning and whining will be from exactly the same individuals who couldn't presently lift a finger to help themselves. I have no sympathy if that is what transpires. None whatsoever. Truly a sad group of people that are employed as pilots at CX. Most should be ashamed.

[VR-HFX]

CLC

You are correct in saying that most in your category five no longer give a Friar Tuck about the company BUT, as a group, they are too fed up to feel handcuffed the way they used to.

In the current market there is plenty of contract flying out there with basing opportunities and this will get even the old and the tired on their horses. Expect a swathe of resignations in the first half of 2018 from 10-15 year captains, who are all highly sought after by our friends north of Lowu and south of the Yalu.

Even a three-year contract with one of these carriers provides more security than we currently have and to be frank, their management could not possibly be any worse.

in 2018 RH/AT are going to get mightily sick of saying "Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out".

[checklistcomplete]

VR-HFX

Totally agree. Well said.

[BlunderBus]

It would only take a single day to send the message... just one day off

[raven11]

CLC and VR-HFX

On the nose...!