Which Chipmunk is that?

[India Four Two]

I stumbled on this great post that I had not seen before. Rod tells me it may have been posted on PPRuNe before, but if so I missed it.

I posted it on Military Aviation, but I thought it deserved exposure here as well:

Which Chipmunk Is That? by Rod Blievers (http://clubhyper.com/reference/whichchipmunkrb_1.htm)

[Top West 50]

Lovely picture. I am not sure which UAS is represented on the fuselage. However, in 1970, WG478 was on the line at Church Fenton Primary Flying Squadron, I flew her on 9 October 1970 with Fg Off Cairns as the student.

[India Four Two]

TW50,

I’m sure Rod will be along directly to tell you. However, Number 2 is from my old mob, UBAS. :)

[Wander00]

Flew WG479 a few times at the Towers in 1963 - close

[Groundloop]

It's No 2 FTS.

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/533085-no-2-flying-training-school-no-2-fts-reforms.html

[India Four Two]

Groundloop,

TinyURL to the rescue:

https://tinyurl.com/ydd975tr

I have no idea why PPRuNe hates B. L. O. G. S. P. O. T.

[treadigraph]

B l o g s p o t links are banned from PPRuNe!

Ah, Chipmunks - must get me another ride in one next year...!

[avionic type]

Anybody remember when the RAF Chipmunks were converted from Coffman Starters to electric ? we had lots of fun with them on misfires [approach with caution!!!] the mod was done after the early 50s,; we had the cartridge starters at Upavon when I was demobbed in 54

[Discorde]

WG478 was on the line at Church Fenton Primary Flying Squadron, I flew her on 9 October 1970 with Fg Off Cairns as the student.

In 1967-8 the Leeds UAS fleet included '478. It was F/L Dick Kidney's usual mount, yellow prop spinner IIRC. As one of his students I spent many happy hours in it, but my 1st solo was in '517 (my log book doesn't show the letter part of the reggie). The favourite of the C/O (S/L Robbie Chambers) was '316 - blue spinner to match his bone dome.

[longer ron]

Anybody remember when the RAF Chipmunks were converted from Coffman Starters to electric ? we had lots of fun with them on misfires [approach with caution!!!] the mod was done after the early 50s,; we had the cartridge starters at Upavon when I was demobbed in 54

RAF Chippies still had cartridge start in 1983 :)

[DaveReidUK]

As one of his students I spent many happy hours in it, but my 1st solo was in '517 (my log book doesn't show the letter part of the reggie).

Only one possibility (still flying as G-ULAS, with Boultbee at Goodwood):

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/full_size_0247/1371544-large.jpg

[Discorde]

Thanks DRUK! Nice to know that ‘517 and I are both still flying 50 years later.

[Herod]

RAF Chippies still had cartridge start in 1983

Make that at least 1990.

[regentbl]

The 22 chipmunks at Middle Wallop had their starters converted in the early 90’s. I believe the supply of cartridges were running out and Eley Kynock were not prepared to supply a new batch of cordite cartridges. I do have a tin of them if anyone wants some?

[olympus]

B l o g s p o t links are banned from PPRuNe!

Why?........

[kenparry]

RAF Chippies still had cartridge start in 1983
Make that at least 1990.

There was one at 5AEF Cambridge with electric start for some years. The starter motor I believe was ex Pembroke; we were told that lots of motors were in store somewhere, ready to be fitted. But the suppliers did their sums again and found that there were enough cartridges in stock to last until the Bulldogs replaced the last AEF Chipmunks, so no more were converted. At 5AEF, the Bulldogs arrived about 1994; the lone electric start had been there for maybe 5 years.

[avionic type]

Thank you all for the replies to the my cartridge starter question ,the reason I asked was when I saw some Chipmunks for disposal at some airshow a few years ago the one with the engine cowl open had electric starting and remember remarking to my son how the fun and anxiety had gone and blamed it on "Elf and Safety" but now in my dotage I realize that it IS more convenient.
Any tales of "Hand swinging " the little darlings all mine seem to have been in the wet weather and end in failure with elderly [to me]very senior officers glaring at me the "young erk", wet,fed up, hoping "Chiefy" would find some cartridges in the stores.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

In the 35 years I flew G-BCSL we often hand swung it either because the starter / battery was U/S (a frequent occurrence) or just to preserve battery life especially if it was a cold start.

Once one learned what the engine needs, it was easy. Prime by pulling the ring that allows fuel into the inlet manifold, pump the fuel pump lever up and down listening for the 'clack clack' of the non return valves in the fuel lines (the tanks are downhill of the engine in the tail-down attitude). When fuel trickles from the manifold drain onto the apron, stop pumping and wait for the dribble to stop.

Throttle closed and mags off, suck in (pull it though 4 compressions checking for good compression, and listening for the click of the impulse mag). No click, no start. If that's the case, clout the impulse mag with a block of wood or suchlike, and pull it through again whereupon you should hear the click.

Observing normal procedures, safety checks etc, call for 'THROTTLE SET. CONTACT'. On getting the cockpit occupants 'thumbs down' replaced by a 'thumbs up', swing the prop in approved manner. It will start. Usually.

If it doesn't, swing it again ('OFF' if you need to re-position the prop).

If it hasn't started after 4 or 5 goes, call for 'OFF. THROTTLE WIDE OPEN' and pull through backwards several blades to clear the accumulated fuel in the cylinders. You should be able to smell this. Then 'THROTTLE SET. CONTACT' and swing again. It will start If not, re-prime and start again.

[avionic type]

Where Were You Shaggy Sheep driver in September 1953/March 1954 when I needed your wisdom ? I was ground crew on HQ Transport Command Com Flt at Upavon where all the pilots were Group Captain and above to Air Vice Marshal keeping their flying hours up to keep their wings ,as an "Erk" the thought of God sprang to mind when they were in the front seat , but I must not protest as one senior officer took me flying in the back seat of the Chippie and the front seat of the Flights Tiger Moth. Pure Joy!!!!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Where Were You Shaggy Sheep driver in September 1953/March 1954 when I needed your wisdom ?

I wouldn't have been a lot of help, AT. I was 4 years old!

[megan]

Never ever saw a Gypsy powered machine that had a starter - Dragon, Tiger, Auster, Chippie. Only ever had a problem once using the Armstrong method, as a 16 YO trying to get a Tiger going, near collapse by the time it sprang to life.

[Dora-9]

Mod H377 in 1991 allowed for the Coffman cartridge starter to be replaced by the Rotex electric unit.

[treadigraph]

Never ever saw a Gypsy powered machine

Gipsy please! :)

[India Four Two]

The DH-82c that visits my gliding club near Calgary has an electric starter.

[Dora-9]

Several Tigers here in Oz have Gipsy Major 10/2's (i.e. the Chipmunk engine), complete with electric starter etc.

[megan]

Gipsy please!Gave myself a severe talking to for my sins and sacrilege treaders.

[Fark'n'ell]

Only ever had a problem once using the Armstrong method, as a 16 YO trying to get a Tiger going, near collapse by the time it sprang to life.

Likewise Megan.At the same age.Then I discovered impulse magnetos.

[megan]

Then I discovered impulse magnetosOh, I already knew all about them, and the remedy.

[Tony Mabelis]

I hope you were taught only to use the handle of the big screwdriver to wake the impulse coupling.
Tony

[papa_sierra]

'Once one learned what the engine needs, it was easy. Prime by pulling the ring that allows fuel into the inlet manifold, pump the fuel pump lever up and down listening for the 'clack clack' of the non return valves in the fuel lines (the tanks are downhill of the engine in the tail-down attitude). When fuel trickles from the manifold drain onto the apron, stop pumping and wait for the dribble to stop.'

The trickle is important - if no trickle the drain pipe could be blocked (old oil) and the manifold full of fuel.

Been there, done that.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Oh, and there's starting a Gipsy on a VERY cold morning. I was trying to do this once and the engine wasn't having it. The on-airfield aircraft engineers were open that morning and they couldn't start it using the usual methods either, so I was instructed to get in while two hefty lads lifted the tail to the level attitude.

The chief engineer then did the tickle, suck in, called for 'CONTACT', and swung it. It started first swing.

"Usually when you suck-in you are sucking in vapour from the pool of fuel at the aft (lower) end of the inlet manifold", he explained. "When the wx is VERY cold the fuel doesn't vapourise as readily and probably only the back cylinder gets a whiff. Hold the tail up so the manifold is level and so is the pool of fuel, and they all get some".

Well, it certainly worked!

[treadigraph]

I believe Rollason engineers used to do that trick using a trestle to get the Tiger Club's Tigers started.

[Dora-9]

Then I discovered impulse magnetos. Or, you could fix all your problems (and produce quicker, more reliable starts) by fitting Slicks.

The trickle is important - if no trickle the drain pipe could be blocked (old oil) and the manifold full of fuel.
Actually, this happened to me quite recently, and the oil wasn't particularly "old" - previous start 4 weeks before.

Oh, and there's starting a Gipsy on a VERY cold morning.What an absolute gem, thank you SSD!! I appreciate that my version of a "VERY cold morning" is nowhere near as extreme as to what you're used to, but I had exactly this issue on a -1C morning!! I gave up and went home...

[India Four Two]

Sorry chaps, I can’t resist. I laugh at your concept of “VERY cold” :)

As I sit here, in the warm, it’s -21 C outside and that’s the high for the day. -28 C tonight! I have to go out soon and see if my car will start!

All sensible Gipsy Majors are tucked up until spring.

[megan]

SSD, the answer to the problem on the day, was rather chilly, learnt some thing new. Where were you when you were needed? ;)

[Top West 50]

As a student at CFS Little Rissington in January 1969, I remember the fusilade of cartridge explosions in the early morning as we tried to get some life into the line of Chipmunks that had spent the night in a damp hangar. Gosh it was cold!

[Discorde]

@ TW50

Was S/L Steve Holding the C/O at Rissington then? Previously he had been deputy CFI at Leeds UAS at Church Fenton. I'm forever grateful to him - he taught me how to land the Chippie.

[longer ron]

As a student at CFS Little Rissington in January 1969, I remember the fusilade of cartridge explosions in the early morning as we tried to get some life into the line of Chipmunks that had spent the night in a damp hangar. Gosh it was cold!

Yes Chippies could be a little reluctant to 'fire' during cold spells ( sometimes 2 or 3 carts )

Which reminds me of this little incident....


Back at Abingdon after the xmas holiday many years ago,very cold january weather...chippies not been started for a couple of weeks and were being a little reluctant to fire up.
One of our VRT gentlemen told his groundcrew that they were clear to prime (even though he had just started his walkround) so young 'E' says 'ok' :rolleyes:- he primes and swings the prop and hey presto the dripsy chunks into life and continues to idle - even with both mags off LOL.
'E' is just staring at the prop spinning - the pilot is stood holding on to the rudder just gawping :cool:.
A quick thinking sumpy SAC jumps up and pulls the fuel cut off !!
What a great start to the new year - much mirth at E's expense but nobody was hurt


Yes there was a good reason why the pilot shoulda been in the cockpit during engine prime :ok:

[Dora-9]

Yes there was a good reason why the pilot shoulda been in the cockpit during engine prime

And if you're starting on your own?

[longer ron]

I was referring to a standard RAF Chippie start Dora :ok:

The incident I posted about was very unusual - all the other Chippies we dragged out of the hangar that day were extremely reluctant to start !

[Top West 50]

Discorde: yes he was and what a great sense of humour he had! Being cold, he drummed his feet on the Chipmunk floor. Tony Trudgett, his student, said, "what's that noise?" "Oh, it's just the oil pump - it's quite noisy in this aircraft." So, for the next few sorties, Steve drummed his feet on the floor and the oil pump kept going for several subsequent sorties. One day, he waited for a quiet moment at the top of a loop and stopped drumming. "Oil pump gone, engine failure, mayday, mayday, mayday," said Tony!

[Discorde]

A misty December morning, Church Fenton, 1968 . . .

http://steemrok.com/cf%20chippies%20v3

[Dora-9]

Lovely photo, Discorde...

I think this is Yorkshire UAS. "B" is WG468.

[Discorde]

It was still Leeds UAS in Dec ‘68, Dora-9, which was the month I left. I believe it became YUAS the following year.

[Dora-9]

You beat me to the draw, Discorde. You're correct, Yorkshire UAS formed by combining Leeds and Hull UAS' on 15.3.1969, so it is a Leeds UAS line up. But there's an oddity here; "C" is WG478 (mine!) and her Record of Service card shows her being issued to Yorkshire UAS in June 1968! A typo I suspect.