Scampton Airshow Binned

[downsizer]

So Scampton airshow binned. The spotters will be fuming! :{

[downsizer]

Never mind the spotters, just wait for the outrage to begin on here.

BGG

One and the same dude. :E:ok:

[NutLoose]

Reason I could see were

Overpriced puts punters off, absolutely cr*p aircraft attendance, poor support from the RAF, big gaps in the display..heck I went to Cosford and we had one Typhoon, a Chinook, Grob, Dead Sparrows, a Klingair, A Herc flyby and a 400 flyby, plus a pongo Apache, if it wasnt for the civilian visitors and the fact the punters could visit the museum it was a dead loss. Why the likes of the Herc and A400 cannot display is beyond me, you burn hours and fuel getting it there to fly across the front of the crowd and then gone.... Just like Scampton!

I do believe if you knock the price down to make it more affordable you will increase revenue with a greater attendance.


Does this mean the fire museum can have their hangar back? :p

[Treble one]

RIAT prices for seaside show content. Not a good combination IMHO.


Hampered by being the same weekend as at least one other major European show.

[chopper2004]

I agree the RIAT prices did not reflect the quality or quantity of the show..disappointing, bar the only highlights there for me were the LNAA new AW169 and RCAF CF-188 Hornet (my photos below)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4362/36822720610_58a4916f90_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/37030077196_f616cb44e3_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4392/37220742435_31448e9133_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4442/37220733385_fd3cf53d2e_k.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4352/37048539692_67c1047533_k.jpg

See what 2019 brings, if the show goes ahead..

Btw I thought the base had few dilapidated buildings in serious need of refurb or repair.

cheers

[Roadster280]

<snip>

Btw I thought the base had few dilapidated buildings in serious need of refurb or repair.

cheers

Just driving past on the A15, I'd say "several", rather than "few". IIRC, wasn't that the very reason the station was not fully reopened 10 years ago?

[Fly26]

I think RIAT is the place to be these days - I just swallow the price and hope for a cloud base above 2000’. Everything else for a mix of aircraft seems effected by rules/regs/pricing and quality of display. At least RIAT attracts most global air power. Let’s hope for a good 2018!

[jindabyne]

Along with a couple of ex-RAF mates, I attended on the Saturday.

All of us thought it to be overpriced, given the poor content of both the flying and static displays. The latter had virtually no 'labelling', and there was a dearth of operators on hand to chat with.

We paid for admittance to the Lincoln enclosure which was also disappointing. Very limited table seating, and the quality of the buffet left much to be desired.

On the plus side, access and departure was well organised; and the attitude of the volunteers was commendable.

Hope RIAT 2018 comes up trumps.

[ShyTorque]

I feel privileged to have been born and lived my formative years in what was probably the best ever time for airshows.

Farnborough 1960s et al, military and civilian.
At least the Cold War era did have one advantage!
Nothing now comes close.

[Melchett01]

Along with a couple of ex-RAF mates, I attended on the Saturday.

All of us thought it to be overpriced, given the poor content of both the flying and static displays. The latter had virtually no 'labelling', and there was a dearth of operators on hand to chat with.

We paid for admittance to the Lincoln enclosure which was also disappointing. Very limited table seating, and the quality of the buffet left much to be desired.

On the plus side, access and departure was well organised; and the attitude of the volunteers was commendable.

Hope RIAT 2018 comes up trumps.

Can’t comment on the Show itself, but as one who is currently serving, the descriptions here do suggest it was at least an accurate metaphor / representation of the state of the Forces in general. You probably couldn’t do them for misrepresentation. Said with a slightly heavy heart rather than a criticism.

[NutLoose]

Yep the one thing that always comes across to me as a positive in all the shows I visit is the Aircadets, indeed all the cadet forces, they work for nothing and do a superb job, marshalling traffic and generally being where needed, hats off to them all, one saved me quite a bit of Money when I lost my lens cover off a lens.

As ex RAF as I have said before I thought the 2016 Cosford show air content was an embarrassment to the RAF with the poor content, even allowing for the weather. I realise the current generation of new punters probably haven't seen the likes of a Battle of Britain at home show or a Riat of the 70's etc where it would be a packed show from start to finish and the end of the Coldwar probably put paid to those, but a show with poor content, large gaps and poor commentary seem the norm these days.

[Pontius Navigator]

BGG, agree. A show I organised 30 years ago had too many events if that be possible.

VC10k and two F2 together. 4 F4 and 4 F2 together. C141 static. 12 Spitfire, Lancaster, Mustang, Mosquito and so on.

Oh F6, A10,

[NutLoose]

Maybe it’s time to let if go and realise that, in the main, the sort of air shows that you reminisce about, are simply a thing of the past. Times have changed, the RAF has changed, what people want has changed, acceptance of risk has changed, along with a whole host of other things. Perhaps you just need to accept that those days have long gone and maybe stop droning on (pissing in the wind) about it.

Just a thought.

BGG

The trouble is when you accept it as the norm, quality also goes.

[jindabyne]

BIG

Agree - aside from your unnecessary last sentence (we're all entitled to a view).

Also agree with Nut. Change is inevitable, loss of quality is not.

PN - disagree (unless you were tongue in cheek!)

[Pontius Navigator]

Jind, indeed TIC. The problem we had was organising slot times. Every minute was accounted for with slots organised for several recoveries and departures between displays. Absolutely no slack. BAe at one point wanted to despatch an F3. They had to wait and take an opportunity slot. Then we had an approach end RHAG engagement and a race to clear the active while a display continued above.

The Static was also maxed with aircraft parked under the 141.

[Wander00]

French Air Force seem to do shows rather well. Parking in local shopping zone (shops close Sundays), or ar Rochefort on the runway at the old naval airfield down the road, free Air Force bus to show. €10 max entry fee, kids free. Most expensive lunch about €6, sausage and frites or a huge cheese and ham baguette, and easy back to parking again in the free bus. Families see it as a day out and love it. lots of "spotters" too.

[Pontius Navigator]

Wander, did they have heavy metal display with more than a Singleton? One year at Waddo we had an ACMI Det. We asked the French if they could fly their F1. They said they were display qualified and did a superb pairs display. It was by far the most impressive of the FJ displays largely because it was a pair.

[Wander00]

They usually display all they have - also for little "village" air shows (more like "fete with flying " but good fun) they usually produce something out of the hat. However, I believe they have disbanded the 4-ship Epsilon team that was always very good value

[Martin the Martian]

A lot of the continental shows are certainly attracting the UK spotters and enthusiasts now. The variety of attending aircraft is certainly better, while the cost is definitely more bang for your buck, even when taking into account travel and hotels etc.

[Thomas coupling]

Living near Duxford, their airshows seem to be getting bigger and better. Some of the aircraft there are unique - never to be seen elsewhere.
May seems to be an air extravaganza with a mixed fleet and the September one is a one off - full of piston engined warplanes. And even if it rains - 2 of the biggest aviation museums in europe I would guess?
What's there not to like:

[AndoniP]

I was hoping Scampton would have been a worthy successor to Waddington, having gone there a few times and being impressed with the static and air displays. Unfortunately it was poorly attended by both the public and display teams (the weather didn't help on the Sunday though), and the lack of these displays hampered what could have been a decent day out.

[bobward]

NOT cancelled, simply paused (just like Air Cadet gliding....):rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Finningley Boy]

It should've been held over the weekend 15th/16th September 2018! It would clash with Ostrava in Czech republic, but, I would expect the RAF to push the kite out next year in order to get as impressive a line up as possible on the air show circuit!:ok:

If 2019's still on, then 14th/15th September! Otherwise, the first weekend of September is free apart from a couple seafronters!:8

FB:)

PS, I've already got my Kevlar on ready for the incoming reminders about keeping my tootsies firmly on terra firma!:p

[ExAscoteer]

Living near Duxford...
What's there not to like:


The stupidly inflated ticket prices for one.

[chopper2004]

Living near Duxford, their airshows seem to be getting bigger and better. Some of the aircraft there are unique - never to be seen elsewhere.
May seems to be an air extravaganza with a mixed fleet and the September one is a one off - full of piston engined warplanes. And even if it rains - 2 of the biggest aviation museums in europe I would guess?
What's there not to like:

The price of tickets which are on par with RIAT? And you have to pay another fiver to get into the flightline to take close up photos of the iconic a/c. Hasten to add come midday, everyone back behind the line.

The food be it served in the cafe(s) at the IWM are expensive and tbh not exactly riveting

TBH IMHO, if we talking about museum or static - Duxford should be like Flying Bulls Hangar - 7 pristine, clean, fun and more importantly its FREE to walk around and close up to the exhibits (they all FLY and not museum pieces) bar a rope that goes around each a/c. If they need to take either the Stearman or the DC-6 out to fly - the security guards just rope off the area and ask the bystanders to politely stand aside or behind while said a/c is towed away.The ikarus restaurant is great along with the outside bar and grill (open in summer)inside. Not saying the price of food and drink at Hangar 7 is cheap but its value for money and excellent quality compared to Duxford cafe and restaurant and prices similar.

I apologize now if if this is coming across as IWM bash...I was never keen on it bar Flying Legends (I grew up around here)but more importantly it held Helitech for a decade!

cheers

[Tay Cough]

Well, if Scampton goes ahead in 2019, I’m currently in discussions about bringing something very interesting along with a particularly local flavour which hasn’t been seen in Lincolnshire skies for a long time and will without any shadow of a doubt steal the show. If it can be done - and there are currently endless opportunities for a no - an approach will be made to the organisers.

[Finningley Boy]

Well, if Scampton goes ahead in 2019, I’m currently in discussions about bringing something very interesting along with a particularly local flavour which hasn’t been seen in Lincolnshire skies for a long time and will without any shadow of a doubt steal the show. If it can be done - and there are currently endless opportunities for a no - an approach will be made to the organisers.


You're promising a real live flying Gloster Javelin!:ok:

FB:)

[BEagle]

The last time I saw a real, live Gloster Javelin fly was at an Open Day at 'Heaven in Devon' sometime in the late 1960s.....

Typical of many displays in those days - a varied static, a limited flying display and an emphatically military atmosphere. I remember being shown the cockpit of a Hunter by a very enthusiastic young pilot - and looking forward to the day when I might be in his shoes.

Entry was free for us as CCF cadets in uniform and we even had lunch in the Officers' Mess.

There needs to be less emphasis on the 'show' aspect and more on the 'at home'. Taxpayers are the RAF's shareholders and deserve to see what their money is paying for. Static Typhoon, Tornado, Atlas, C-17 and Voyager most certainly - although there'd be costs incurred arranging crash cover (no doubt these days there's a fluffier term for that).

Spotters with expensive cameras, beer guts wrapped in 'camo' waistcoats covered in badges unknown to any military pilot, dragging little aluminium step ladders can be a pain, but they are shareholders after all....

The genpub rarely sees the RAF these days - for example, there's hardly any low level flying these days compared to the past. The awful 'Spirit' nonsense at Abingdon was a dismal failure and yes, I do recall the excellent Abingdon 'At Home' days of the past. I also remember being very excited as a youngster at the last ever RAF Merryfield Open Day - I think it was in 1958, a few months after the station went on C&M. No doubt many other youngsters were motivated to join the RAF after such events.

This isn't just misty-eyed recall, the point is that the genpub deserve a proper military At Home Day. Not run by some third party either! It doesn't have to include high risk events, but it does need to commemorate 100 years of the Royal Air Force!

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle, agree your point about motivation. My first acquaint was at Hooton Park. My next, in the CCF, was at RAF Silloth with lunch in the Mess served by a cpl pilot and later a flight in a Hastings to RAF Aldergrove. Camps at RAF Topcliffe, RAF Manby, and RAF Upwood followed.

I even remember the MQs at RAF West Kirby reserved for 'wives of . . .' for airmen on 12 month unaccompanied tours. I didn't understand at the time, but that was a downside even then.

[Tiger_mate]

With the costs of P8 and F35 being challenged and the RAF being publicly accused of a lack of transparency regarding F35 costs; does anyone really believe that the RAF can respond to such criticism by contributing to an air show. I dare say that RAFAT, BBMF, and even the Falcons are keeping their respective heads down at the moment thankful of such headlines coinciding with the winter break.

Don't get me wrong - I am all for the BofB displays of old - and would love to see them both numerous in number and free to see (as I believe is the case in the USA) - but those days in the UK will not be seen again in my lifetime*. [*2060 is perceived as being the time when pre-2008 fiscal levels maybe restored]

[Treble one]

BEagle, agree your point about motivation. My first acquaint was at Hooton Park. My next, in the CCF, was at RAF Silloth with lunch in the Mess served by a cpl pilot and later a flight in a Hastings to RAF Aldergrove. Camps at RAF Topcliffe, RAF Manby, and RAF Upwood followed.

I even remember the MQs at RAF West Kirby reserved for 'wives of . . .' for airmen on 12 month unaccompanied tours. I didn't understand at the time, but that was a downside even then.


PN your memories reminded me of a tale an old mate of mine told me about his first ATC camp at Tangmere in 1943. He got a flight in a Dominie (DH Rapide) over the channel with the might of the Luftwaffe fighter force just a few miles away....


What would Heath and safety say nowadays? :mad::mad::mad:

[chopper2004]

Musing over Beags post and dont let a third party run it lol got me thinking, so was there not a thread on RIAT a few years back and one member on here said RIAT was great as the IAT until they added the Royal in front and it went downhill from there.

Any thoughts ?

cheers

[Treble one]

The Royal bit came from the late King Hussein of Jordan I believe? That means that the Royal Jordanian Falcons (In their Extra 300's?) get invited each year.


They are not the most thrilling of display teams, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it started a downhill spiral for the show....

[PapaDolmio]

The Royal bit came from the late King Hussein of Jordan I believe? That means that the Royal Jordanian Falcons (In their Extra 300's?) get invited each year.


They are not the most thrilling of display teams, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it started a downhill spiral for the show....

RIAT went downhill when it ceased to become a show run by volunteers and enthusiasts which donated profits to the RAFBF and was effectively 'taken over' first by the RAFBF and latterly the RAF/MoD/BAE.

[Finningley Boy]

Beagle has expressed my own sentiments quite comprehensively, my own initiation to all things aviation and RAF in particular, was at Finningley, I believe it was 1962. I was very very young. I do recall the impact of a four Vulcan scramble, all anti-flash white. As for the present difficulties in mounting such shows, my understanding is that the iconic Anthony Blair PM, introduced , or presided over the introduction of, a restrictive ruling which prevented military personnel and hardware more to the point, from being used for public demonstration except for ceremonial activities? Thus to get HM Forces participation at an airshow, even their own, requires a degree of money to be handed over to either MOD or as is more likely the case, the Treasury!?

And this in turn has had a significant and noticeable impact on military participation at any public events since.:sad:

FB:)

[Pontius Navigator]

FB, actually back in Maggie's time money flowed around the system from one unit to another. We were 'allowed' to use any assets in our Group and request assets from the other Groups. Binbrook tried to bill us for T&S for their ground party and the Reds for their smoke. Our staish told both where to go.