Alitalia

[goldeneye]

Lufthansa is looking at taking over Alitalia.

Would this be permitted by the EU, given that LH already own Austrian, Swiss, Brussels Airlines, Eurowings etc plus Air Dolomiti in Italy.

Source (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/62454-lufthansa-closes-in-on-alitalia-takeover)

[Jerry123]

Well they don't seem to mind them owning those airlines so i don't think the EU will be bothered if they own Alitalia.

[840]

That would still only give them market share of 16% or so (may be a bit higher depending on Air Berlin outcome), so there would certainly be no block on a takeover based on that level of market share. There would probably be conditions applied in terms of some routes, slots at certain airports, maintenance of connections though, like when IAG took over Aer Lingus.

[pamann]

Whatever happened to the rumour on here that AZ had sold all their LHR slots and were to up sticks and head to STN?

There were even schedules put on the STN thread at one point.

[nguba]

AZ has already sold its LHR slots to its major shareholder and leases them back.

So if that shareholder wants the slots back, AZ will have to leave LHR.

[Red Four]

From a RNS tonight:

"easyJet has today submitted a revised expression of interest for a restructured Alitalia, together as part of a consortium, consistent with easyJet's existing strategy for Italy.

Given the nature of the process, the content of the expression of interest is subject to confidentiality.

There is no certainty at this stage that any transaction will proceed and easyJet will provide a further update in due course if and when appropriate."

[c52]

No longer for sale? https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-politics-alitalia/italys-5-star-league-plan-to-halt-sale-of-alitalia-league-economics-chief-idUKKCN1II26S

[davidjohnson6]

Alitalia normally operate from Heathrow 2x daily to Milan LIN and 3x daily to Rome FCO. They also fly from London City to Milan LIN 6x on weekdays and 3x at weekends. They requested slots from ACL for 7x daily departures from Gatwick, but were given slots for just 5x weekly flights

About 5 years ago, Alitalia sold their slots to an airline in the UAE and then leased them back. That UAE based airline did a purchase-and-leaseback of Heathrow slots with Jet Airways as well... when Jet went bust, the UAE based airline and Air Serbia had to increase flights to Heathrow to avoid forfeiting the slots under the use-it-or-lose-it rule. Eventually those slots were sold/leased in late 2019 to BA/AA

I'm wondering if Alitalia (or a certain airline in the Middle East) is trying to sell or lease out those Heathrow slots to another airline and we might see Alitalia moves its LHR operations completely to Gatwick

[krismiler]

Ticket sales cease, operations stop 15 October. To be replaced by ITA.

[DaveReidUK]

Alitalia.com: Schedule Changes and Refunds for Flights from 15 October (https://www.alitalia.com/en_it/fly-alitalia/news-and-activities/news/schedule-changes-and-refunds-for-flights-from-15-october.html)

[ShamrockF]

All the best to them. With a bit of luck ITA won't end up buying the brand name and they can have a proper fresh start. Alitalia has been nothing but a commercial failure.

[SealinkBF]

The end for Alitalia. All hail New Alitalia!

Alitalia is ending ticket sales and flight operations from 15 October 15.

Final call for Alitalia (travelmole.com) (https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=_rnbdbb&w_id=39307&news_id=2048317)

[Tartiflette Fan]

From travelmole link

" ITA is owned by the Italian Finance Ministry, which has written off Alitalia's remaining debts and pumped in about €700m in startup funding."

Does anyone know how this is possible ? AFAIR the EU stopped the last attempt by Italy to subsidise Alitalia, and if that were so, how can they now write off undoubtedly significant debts ?

[davidjohnson6]

In 2013, I sent a formal protest to the EU Commission
I received a very polite response from the Industrial State Aid case handlers giving a full legal justification as to why they were going to ignore any objections that EU citizens might raise

If the Italian Govt wish to burn their taxpayers' money, why should I make a fuss if the EU as supposed arbiter of what state aid is (or isn't) allowed proposes to do absolutely nothing ?

[Lonewolf_50]

Back in the mid 1990's the family flew on Alitalia one summer for our vacation.
Excellent service, and on time. (Not sure if that was an anomaly)
Sorry to see their demise, but the world has certainly changed since then.

[787Heaven]

I’m really hoping the dedicated employees of Alitalia are able to go on to bigger and better things. I’m truly saddened that this is happening

[PAXboy]

Is anyone counting the 'Relaunches' and 'Debt Write-Offs' since the Treaty of Rome in 1957? :p

[BA318]

I’m not sure how accurate it is but I read in 60 years Alitalia only once recorded a profit. Yet she’s still going. And it’s clear the new ITA seems very likely to continue along a similar path.

[Jamesair1]

Alitalia has always suffered from 'Legacy...state owned...overstaffing"' which has never been properly addressed. It was obliged to operate a long haul international network from two major hubs..Milan and Rome......which they did try to address......plus, the likes of Easyjet eating into its domestic network....didn't h elp.
A bit of a losing battle I think.

[Dannyboy39]

davidjohnson6

Because the EU picks and chooses when and what rules they enforce. Look at Germany and France with DLH and AFR. And I’m not a Brexiteer. The U.K. was the only country following EU rules whilst it was a member - this built up resentment.

You also look at Ireland and the Netherlands - two countries that are on a collision course with their EU partners over corporation taxation policy. Is it not meant to be a level playing field?

[BA318]

Indeed. How Lufthansa has been allowed to buy Air Berlin, Brussels Airlines, Swiss, Austrian is beyond me. Yet BA had to give up slots to buy BMI when they would still have fewer slots at their home base than LH does at theirs.

[cavokblues]

In fairness there were orders by the EU for Lufthansa to give up slots at Dusseldorf following the Air Berlin takeover, slots at Zurich and Frankfurt airports following the Swiss merger and slots between Vienna and German destinations following the Austrian takeover.

[geriatrix]

Last Alitalia flight tonight. From Cagliari to Rome FCO. Future of the name is uncertain. Ciao bella!

[TopBunk]

Should have been allowed to perish a couple of decades ago.

Bye bye, you'll not be missed!

[DaveReidUK]

Before schadenfreude sets in, three AZ arrivals are due at Heathrow tomorrow ...

[LFC22]

I mean ITA still have the rights to the Alitalia name which they're expected to use so they're not really gone

[geriatrix]

It has just been announced that ITA after some government prodding have bought the Alitalia name for Euros 90 million. I would guess that this also includes the website domain name.

[back to Boeing]

agreed they’ve been non viable for years. But as the article below points out. It’s complex

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-high-speed-trains-alitalia/index.html

[DaveReidUK]

geriatrix

No evidence of that yet: Alitalia.com simply saying "No more tickets will be sold", not even a link to the ITA website (http://www.itaspa.com) (which was working earlier today, but currently appears to be down).

[geriatrix]

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/ita-italys-new-national-airline-takes-off-as-alitalia-name-lives-on.html

Of course, it may be that ITA bought the name Alitalia in order to prevent anyone else buying it. Time will tell.

[Rutan16]

Mirror of ATI the former Alitalia domestic subsidiary !

[ajamieson]

DaveReidUK

And is still down

[geriatrix]

https://www.itaspa.com/en_en/homepage.html is working for me.

Odd thing is that they show flights from LHR at the end of October for sale, but I thought AZ had sold the slots to a middle eastern airline beginning with et.

[EI-BUD]

Question -
How likely is it that we'll see an ACMI operator such as Cityjet undertaking work for ITA?
Cityjet boss explains in Irish newspapers that the airline is close to signing deals with a number of airlines in Europe.