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1DC
14th Dec 2017, 13:57
Travelling to Oz in January from Manchester via Zurich and HongKong. Their are two flights from MAN to ZRH on the day and we were booked on the evening one.We asked if we could change to the afternoon flight, We are flying business, but on a restricted ticket because it was an offer. The ticket agent said we could change but the fare would have to be recalculated, OK says "I". The on cost turned out to be 820 extra per person. How crazy is that to bring a flight forward by four hours!! Staying as we are..

ExXB
14th Dec 2017, 14:05
Not crazy, law of supply and demand.

Harry Wayfarers
14th Dec 2017, 14:28
I flew BHX/ZRH/HKG and return with Swiss back in 2009, they had 4 engines on an A340 in those days, fantastic and friendly service and one hour (ish) connections in ZRH are no problem at all ... And enjoy the cows as you transit terminals beneath the runway!

DaveReidUK
14th Dec 2017, 15:15
they had 4 engines on an A340 in those days

How many engines do they have on a A340 nowadays? :O

Harry Wayfarers
14th Dec 2017, 15:31
From: Zurich (ZRH), Switzerland



To: Hong Kong (HKG), Hong Kong



Operating Airline: SWISS GLOBAL AIR LINES
Flight number: LX 138
Total travel time: 11:40
No. of stops: 0
Airplane type: Boeing 777-300 ER

1DC
14th Dec 2017, 15:34
ExXB if it is supply and demand, why is it cheaper to throw away my business ticket for that sector and then just buy another one for the journey at 358. If the published business fare is 358 why do they want 820 to change a ticket.

I'll stick with the crazy tag:)

Harry Wayfarers
14th Dec 2017, 15:48
I think that you'll find that you've booked MAN/HKG, not ZRH/HKG, so you need to travel from MAN and you can't make your own way to ZRH, under a different reservation, and expect to check-in at ZRH for a departure from MAN.

It's a little alike a cheap return, you can't travel on the return unless you've travelled on the outward.

Welcome to the 21st Century!

1DC
14th Dec 2017, 16:13
You could be right but i do have a separate ticket for each sector

Harry Wayfarers
14th Dec 2017, 16:19
IO don't believe there is any such thing as a ticket in this day and age!

MAN/ZRH/HKG, is this on one booking reference (locator) or two, i.e. is it two separate reservations?

ExXB
14th Dec 2017, 17:16
Before you do that have a look at what the price is for a journey originating ZRH. ie ZRH HKG OZ HKG ZRH MAN. You might be surprised what you could be required to pay.

They will cancel your entire journey if you no-show their MAN ZRH flight.

Have a look at their conditions of carriage where you will see what you have already agreed to.

1DC
14th Dec 2017, 18:59
I have one booking reference for the entire journey.
I have every intention of going, but circumstances changed and i will now be at the airport in time to catch the first flight even though i will still catch the second flight. The ticket was a very good offer on sale during the summer, at least a third off what the price would be now. I was just surprised that the cost to change was so much, particularly as i could have taken the afternoon flight when i made the original booking at the same price, and it didn't make sense to me but i know nothing of the intricacies of airline ticketing! I would have preferred to hang around in ZRH instead of MAN,particularly as i only have 55 minutes for the transfer in ZRH..

Hartington
14th Dec 2017, 22:02
There are without any doubt still tickets. Airline revenue accounts would fail without them.

When electronic tickets were first mooted several airlines saw it as a way of moving away from the constraint of 4 coupon tickets (a limitation imposed by biros and carbon paper). They proposed 99 coupon tickets. Revenue accountants then pointed out the cost of modifying their systems and the idea died rather quickly.

So, instead of printing the tickets everything that used to appear on a paper ticket is now stored in a separate database, away from the reservation.

If you look at the documentation that Swiss have sent you you'll find a 13 digit number beginning (if memory serves) 085. If all you are doing is travelling MAN/ZRH/HKG/ZRH/Man each passenger will have their own 13 digit number. Because one ticket still can't contain more than 4 flights if you were going on beyond HKG on the same ticket you'd each have two sequential ticket numbers (or 3 or 4).

If you are holding one ticket MAN/ZRH/MAN/ZRH/MAN and a separate ticket MAN/ZRH be ultra cautious when checking in at Manchester. If you don't check in for the MAN/ZRH flight that is on the MAN/ZRH/HKG ticket and check in instead for the MAN/ZRH separate ticket Swiss *WILL* cancel all your flights to HKG and back to MAN.

If your comment about having separate tickets means you have one ticket MAN/ZRH/MAN and another ZRH/HKG/MAN that is not a connection even though it may all be in one reservation. Swiss would be within the terms of their contract to refuse to through check you and insist you enter Switzerland, collect your bags and check in again and then go through security etc and if you miss the onward they would have no liability.

S.o.S.
14th Dec 2017, 22:21
Many thanks for the detailed explanation Hartington, as it applies to all.

Metro man
14th Dec 2017, 23:18
The option to change is there as a selling point, they don't mention that it is often cheaper to simply buy a new ticket. Same with refunds.

Harry Wayfarers
15th Dec 2017, 02:48
I also paid a crazy price for my BHX/ZRH/HKG/ZRH/BHX and over a Christmas period an all :)

Flight information https://booking.swiss.com/web/img/icons/icon_outward.gif Outbound flight: Birmingham - Hong Kong via Zurich
Mon. 14.12.2009 18:50 BHX - 21:40 ZRHLX 425Economy Saver(T)
Mon. 14.12.2009 22:40 ZRH - 17:25 +1 HKGLX 138
https://booking.swiss.com/web/img/icons/icon_return.gif Return flight: Hong Kong - Birmingham via Zurich
Wed. 30.12.2009 23:59 HKG - 06:10 +1 ZRHLX 139Economy Saver(T)
Thu. 31.12.2009 07:15 ZRH - 08:05 BHXLX 420

Symbols

+1 Arrival/Departure the following day.
Passenger details
MR HARRY WAYFARERS
GBP 415.60
Price details
Total amount to be paid: GBP 415.60

ExXB
15th Dec 2017, 07:52
If you look at the documentation that Swiss have sent you you'll find a 13 digit number beginning (if memory serves) 085. 085 was Swissair. Swiss (Crossair) is 724.

The Warsaw/Montreal Convention (MC99) require all passengers to have a ‘ticket and baggage check’. Tickets with more than four coupons will have more than one ticket number, and are known as conjunction tickets. However legally all conjunction tickets collectively are considered a single ticket.

You can always try a go-show. Show up at the airport and ask them if they will take you on the earlier fight on the day.

A 55 minute connection at ZRH is plenty of time. I’ve done it in 15 (I had to run) when my inbound flight delayed 30 mins.

Enjoy the cows!

Harry Wayfarers
15th Dec 2017, 08:01
In the days when I was a smoker I've done coaching stand connections in 35 minutes with time for a cigarette ... I love Swiss :)

Jarvy
15th Dec 2017, 09:04
We use both Swiss and Zurich often. 55 mins is plenty of time and watch the over head screens on the plane when arriving at Zurich as they show onward flights and gate numbers.
As has been said enjoy the cows and the Swiss Lady on the train.

RAT 5
15th Dec 2017, 09:09
Oh the joy of ferries. I often book the late afternoon ferry, arrive in time for the mid-afternoon crossing and am welcomed on board, at no extra charge, with a smile. Why wouldn't they? It's called customer service and common sense. I was once on a LoCo flight from close EU - UK. On teletext my flight was delayed 2 hours, so I arrived at the checkin well in time for the new ETA. The desk was open, but not for my flight. It was open for the following fight, on the same route. Could I check in for my original flight? No. They would put me on the 2nd flight at no charge. So I checked in, went to the gate, saw my original a/c still there, watched it depart, waited 2.5hrs and watched it return, then boarded. AGH! How daft is that. What happened to common sense and discretion? Computers have taken over, but there is always a human activated 'back door' to bypass the system is they want to, or are allowed to. I understand the argument that the checkin desk could have beens swamped by 2 flights at the same time, if everybody turned up later for the first flight, but I was the only one.
Reminds me of a friend on a Newcastle - London via Durham train ticket. It was an off-peak ticket, so cheaper. At the last minute he found himself staying with a friend in Durham, so he arrived to board the train in Durham. Not allowed because the ticket had to be validated in Newcastle. Same mess years go with UK combined ticket. It could be cheaper to fly MAN - LHR - XYZ than LHR - XYZ. But you then had to spend more than the savings to get to MAN. Daft or not?

DaveReidUK
15th Dec 2017, 09:13
Computers have taken over, but there is always a human activated 'back door' to bypass the system is they want to, or are allowed to.

I'm not so sure that there is. I've had a similar experience and was told by the check-in staff that they would gladly carry me on an earlier flight that I was in plenty of time for, but "computer says no".

Metro man
15th Dec 2017, 09:56
Reminds me of a friend on a Newcastle - London via Durham train ticket. It was an off-peak ticket, so cheaper. At the last minute he found himself staying with a friend in Durham, so he arrived to board the train in Durham. Not allowed because the ticket had to be validated in Newcastle

This can even be a problem if you get off the train EARLIER than the specified destination. You can be charged with fare evasion if getting off the train at that station would be more expensive than staying on until the station given on your ticket.

Alsacienne
15th Dec 2017, 10:03
"I often book the late afternoon ferry, arrive in time for the mid-afternoon crossing and am welcomed on board, at no extra charge, with a smile."

Ditto, but I do book a semi-flex fare to give me a time margin especially with a long road journey ... and the possibility of 'pedestrians in the road' on the Calais approach!

I too wish that this sort of flexibility could apply to flights to popular destinations with frequent daily rotations, but I suppose this would cause chaos (and potential overbooking!) at check in, or even worse at the gate for those who don't have to check in anything!!!

ExXB
15th Dec 2017, 10:12
You wanted cheap? You’ve got cheap. You wanted low fares, you’ve got low fares (except peak of the peak)

Humans are necessary to make logical decisions based on minimal information. Computers can’t, everyone is treated the same. You want flexibility, you can have it, at a cost.

1DC
15th Dec 2017, 10:33
Yes I am very happy with the cost of my fare and am looking forward to my first time with SWISS. My 13 digit ticket starts with 724 and is the same number for all flights even though i fly HKG to MEL with Cathay and returning fly MEL to SIN with Singapore Airlines before rejoining SWISS. The only thing i haven't been able to do is reserve seats on the non SWISS flights, although i am assured that my wife and i will sit together.
Anyway thank you everyone for all the comments, I didn't think it would create such a discussion. Clearly a few people on here have a lot of knowledge about the subject.
Many thanks..

Groundloop
15th Dec 2017, 11:54
I'm not so sure that there is. I've had a similar experience and was told by the check-in staff that they would gladly carry me on an earlier flight that I was in plenty of time for, but "computer says no".

Because the loadsheet had already been completed. Particularly at LoCos they will not redo a load sheet (or include Last Minute Changes) once the scheduled check-in time has closed as their "load control" staff are now working on other flights.

RAT 5
15th Dec 2017, 14:30
To be fair, if it still exists, ez do allow some flexibility, but with strings. On the return sector you can catch an earlier flight on the same day space available. I discovered the 'strings' when I turned up to avail myself of this excellent offer. Then there was a Duh moment. My wife had driven down on holiday as I was on duty flying. I then booked a single ticket to meet up and was available earlier than expected. I turned up to catch the earlier flight. No can do; it was not a return sector. Duh! Why make an easy job difficult? If they can do it on a return sector why not the outbound or a single sector as well? After all, there are separate tickets/prices for each sector; it is only the booking reference that attaches to both.

How does it work now? It was a very attractive benefit versus competitors and costs them nothing. Indeed they then have an empty seat for last minute bookings at high price. So why not do the job properly?