Aircrew ranks - WWII

[RedhillPhil]

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I've always been puzzled about...........
In WWII many pilots were Flight Sergeants. The next flying rank above that was - as far as I'm able to ascertain - Pilot Officer. What happened to the rank in-between ie Warrant Officer? I can't find any reference to a Warrant Officer as aircrew. Were there any?

[Brian W May]

Yes, there were.

[caped crusader]

On the Augsburg Raid in April 1942 two of the 44 Squadron captains were Warrant Officers. Warrant Officer Crum was captain of Lancaster L7548 whilst Warrant Officer Beckett was captain of Lancaster L7565.

Of the 6 crews from 97 Squadron Warrant Officer Mycock was captain of Lancaster R5513.

[Ormeside28]

When granted Wings a pilot was either a sergeant or pilot officer. Pay in 1944/45 as a Sergeant was 13/6 per day. After a year came promotion to flight Sergeant at 15/0 per day. After another year promotion to warrant officer at 17/6 per day. Riches indeed! At about late forties were the awful stars badges but I do not remember the pay scales. When I left the RAF in 1947 I was a warrant officer. I was a pilot three - three stars - in the RAFVR, and a sergeant again when I rejoined in 1951. Commissioned as pilot officer in 1953. Cannot remember pay scales, but enough. Then pay was almost doubled in ( I think)
1955 when we, nearly all, bought new cars! Pay very good, especially with marriage allowance, mileage to work allowance, and best of all local overseas allowance. Pay almost doubled when posted to Changi in 1958, but when every six weeks to Gan for SAR, we lost our overseas allowance! Hope this helps.

[eckhard]

Ormeside28,

What a fascinating post. Please tell us what you were flying at the time. What did you do ‘47 to ‘51? When you were SAR at Gan, did you position your aircraft from Changi or were they already there?

When your pay doubled in 1955 was when I was born!

Thanks,
Eckhard

[ian16th]

Then pay was almost doubled in ( I think)
1955 when we, nearly all, bought new cars! Pay very good, especially with marriage allowance, mileage to work allowance, and best of all local overseas allowance. Pay almost doubled when posted to Changi in 1958, but when every six weeks to Gan for SAR, we lost our overseas allowance! Hope this helps.
The BIG pay rise was 1st April 1956.

Dunno about aircrew and officers, but I finished my Fitters course in Feb.

Before that date I was an SAC on 11/- a day.
Promotion to J/T moved me to 14/6 a day.
1st April pay rise took me to 21/6 a day.
In the Aug promoted to Cpl on 24/6.

A very big change in 6 months.

At the announcement of the April increase, the OC at Lindholme took great pride in pointing out that a W.O. in and advanced trade, married & living out was now getting over £1,000 per annum!

Those numbers are subject to my brain fade. But the orders of magnitude are about right.

Re: you going on detachment to Gan.
The big factor would be you went from Living Out to Living in.
The rates of Local Overseas Allowance (LOA) were always very different between LIP's and LOP's.

I suffered the same while at Akrotiri, living out in Limassol and sent on detachment to Karachi.

[RedhillPhil]

Thankyou for that chaps.

[Tankertrashnav]

Ormeside - those 'awful star badges' you refer to really must have been unpopular because very few appear to have survived. In 30 odd years of dealing in militaria I only ever saw one set of them, at a fair in Gloucester about 20 years ago. I think over £100 was being asked for them which seemed a lot to me at the time, but if I had bought them I would be on a handsome profit now - at auction, collectors of RAF insignia would be fighting over them!

As you say the system was unpopular and it was abandoned in 1950. The only survival of the system was the rank of master pilot (or navigator etc) which was the new name for warrant officer aircrew, which still survives among certain aircrew categories. Prior to 1946 they were simply known as Warrant Officer.

I once had a GSM for Palestine 1945 - 48 named to an S2 RAF, which puzzled me until I realised that the chap had been a signaller 2 which I think was equivalent to sergeant.

[Ormeside28]

I hope that Danny will forgive another contribution which I gave several years ago but we served at Hhooton Park and Valley, though we were not acquainted.
After training at No 1 BFTS at Terrell, Texas on Stearman PT 17 and AT6 Harvard, I returned to U.K. in the summer of 1944 soon after D day hoping to fly Spitfires or Mustangs.However in the September the battle of Arnhem decimated the Glider Pilot Regiment. The C.O. Of the Regiment, Brigadier George Chatterton had been in the RAF and had friends in high places. He asked for pilots in the pool awaiting further training be seconded to his Regiment. Volunteers were called for but only a few volunteered. We were read the riot act and warned that if we did not volunteer we would never fly again and be put in the army anyway. So we were voluntary conscripts and very bolshy. We went to Brize Norton to fly Horsas and Hadrian’s. We were then sent to various Transport Command stations , Broadwell for me and we were trained by the survivors of Arnhem to be soldiers.
I did the Rhine Crossing and we lost a lot of our mates. I was on embarkation leave for the Far East when the atom bombs were dropped and the war ended. I went back to the RAF for further training but was persuaded by my father to leave when my number came up and join him in the hotel business. This I did, but also joined the RAFVR in Merseyside, evantually at Hooton Park with Tiger Moths and eventually Chipmunks. When the Korean War started we were paraded and told that the RAF was going to expand and now was the time to go back, so I did. I went on a refresher course for three months at Oakington on
Harvard’s, then three months at Swinderby on Wellingtons, and then to Dishforth to be a second dicky on Hastings, finally ending up at Topcliffe on 47 Squadron Hastings. I was commissioned after that and went to Kinloss to convert on to Lockheed Neptune’s. We were lent 50 Neptune’s as the Shackletons were slow coming off production, and the Cold War was on. We had four Squadrons of Neptune’s, 217 at Kinloss 36, 203 and210 at Topcliffe...After three years flying the North Atlantic and Mediterranean, the Neptune’s went back to America, and I joined 120 Squadron at Aldergrove flying Shackleton 1s and 2s. There was a Sunderland Squadron at Seletar Singapore and it was decided that they would be replaced by Shackletons at Changi. I had a friend at Coastal Command an he agganged a posting to join 205 Squadron now at Changi.
We gradually received all 8 aircraft. One at 30 minutes readiness for S and R at Changi.
Eventually the runway was ready at Gan and because of trouble between Gan and the capital Male we sent a Shack to Katanayaka in Ceylon and ran a daily patrol to Gan checking the Maldives for signs of trouble! Eventually we moved into Gan and then kept two Shackletons there for S and R and trouble! Changeover day was Wednesday, and the returning aircraft couldn’t leave Gan until the relief was on its way from Changi. My last trip in a Shack was returning to Changi from doing S and R for the two weeks over Christmas.
We left Changi/Singapore early January 1961 in the troopship Oxfordshire. I reckoned that I would never be able to afford twenty five days cruise. There were only a few RAF officers, the army officers had taken leave. We had the Sherwood Forresters Regiment aboard plus band. I had to do duties on board . When I was the duty Jo I had to “Mount the guard” with the RSM, then inspect the ship with the Quartermaster, RSM, and several others from bottom to top, ending up on the bridge with the Officer of the Watch. It was an Army Run ship. When we got to Gibraltar, my great friend was the ADC to the AOC and he came out to the ship in the RAF launch and took us ashore — brownie points!, It was a great posting out to Singapore , the Shackleton was hot and smelly, we were all high tone deaf, but four Griffons, Leather seats and a good crew who relied on each other, what more can a man/Pilot want?

back to America, and I went to Aldergrove on 120 Squadron

[Mahonda]

Leipzig raid Feb 44
Johnson (MUG) and Mackay (Rear Gunner) had just been promoted to P/O and W/O respectively when they died in Lanc MG-S.

[andyl999]

After training at No 1 BFTS at Terrell, Texas on Stearman PT 17 and AT6 Harvard,


Ormeside 28, can you reveal which course you were on in Terrell?


Regards Andy

[ian16th]

As you say the system was unpopular and it was abandoned in 1950. The only survival of the system was the rank of master pilot (or navigator etc) which was the new name for warrant officer aircrew, which still survives among certain aircrew categories. Prior to 1946 they were simply known as Warrant Officer.

I once had a GSM for Palestine 1945 - 48 named to an S2 RAF, which puzzled me until I realised that the chap had been a signaller 2 which I think was equivalent to sergeant.

Then in 1951 the Ground Crew rank/trade system was changed to introduce the technical ranks Junior/Cpl/Senior/Chief and Master Tech.

To be all changed again in 1964. Cpl/Techs, Senior Techs amd Master Techs became Cpl's, Sgt's and W.O.s and Chief Techs were suddenly below Flight Sgt's, a rank that some Chief Techs had been 'promoted' from.

Since then the SAC/Junior Tech position has changed and the Rock's now have Lance Cpl's.

Will it ever be stable? Or is the RAF really in need of constant change?

[air pig]

Then in 1951 the Ground Crew rank/trade system was changed to introduce the technical ranks Junior/Cpl/Senior/Chief and Master Tech.

To be all changed again in 1964. Cpl/Techs, Senior Techs amd Master Techs became Cpl's, Sgt's and W.O.s and Chief Techs were suddenly below Flight Sgt's, a rank that some Chief Techs had been 'promoted' from.

Since then the SAC/Junior Tech position has changed and the Rock's now have Lance Cpl's.

Will it ever be stable? Or is the RAF really in need of constant change?

Constant change is how some people justify their jobs, no change no job. The Rock L/Cpl came about due to the army not being able to get their heads around SAC section leaders on operations.

[Brian W May]

Ormeside - those 'awful star badges' you refer to really must have been unpopular because very few appear to have survived. In 30 odd years of dealing in militaria I only ever saw one set of them, at a fair in Gloucester about 20 years ago. I think over £100 was being asked for them which seemed a lot to me at the time, but if I had bought them I would be on a handsome profit now - at auction, collectors of RAF insignia would be fighting over them!



Must admit I still have a 'virgin' Master's badge (complete with 'brass' ****ehawk) along with a couple of 'E' brevets (yeah, yeah Flying Badges) as they were the finest rank badges I've ever seen (still).

My LSGC does say M. Eng rather than MACR or Warrant, although my two warrants (one RAuxAF) both make no distinction.

[Danny42C]

Ormeside28 (#9),

Nothing to forgive, my dear chap ! The infamous "Four-star Hennessy" SNCO aircrew rank system was in force when I crept back in under the wire in summer of 1949. My logbook shows that I was instructed by a P2 Lamont (Harvards - August 1949), then by a P2 Willis (Meteors - Feb 1950). I (a Fg Off) addressed them (F/Sgt equivalents) as "sir": they addressed me as "sir". And on 20 Sqdn we had Master Pilots; they were not Instructors and so addressed as "Mister".

Google: <RAF other ranks From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia>

But in July 1954 I had a Sgt McCockle insructor (refresher course Harvard). So the wheel had turned full circle by then (not quite - the Masters hung on and never reverted to Warrant Officers).

The pay rates you quote were correct - I was a fortnight overdue for my "crown", but never got it (nor the extra pay during the next six months waiting for my Commission to come through), But as I was then commissioned in India, and paid the full Pilot Officer arrears (with no reduction for my RAF SNCO pay) by the Government of India, they wanted to have nothing to do with it. RAF accounts later took their full pound of flesh (at F/S rates) back fom me, leaving me out of pocket. Always rankles !

Of course, the whole ridiculous mess (Pilot and Flying Officers who did't fly a kite) could've been avoided if we'd just done what the USAAC did in 1947 (?) when they changed from brown to blue as the USAF - and kept their former Army ranks. Either way, I think the driver of the "four star" system was the desire of the "proper" old SNCOs and WOs (who'd been in the Sgts Mess for yonks) to differentiate themselves from these aircrew "sprogs", who'd "only been in for five minutes". Can't really blame them.

..."Change and decay all around I see" ...

Cheers, Danny.

[Hipper]

My father was an Air Bomber with 158 squadron and on the 30 Dec 1942 he was a Flight Sergeant. He got the following promotions:


31.12.42 Pilot Officer on probation/General Duties, Bomber Command

(16.3.43 London Gazette [?])


30.6.43 Flying Officer on probation (23.7.43 London Gazette)


26.1.44 Flight Lieutenant, Acting


31.12.44 Flight Lieutenant (W) (19.1.45 London Gazette)


From February 1943 he was off flying crew, went on courses and was an instructor until the end of the war when he became flying crew again.

[ian16th]

The Rock L/Cpl came about due to the army not being able to get their heads around SAC section leaders on operations.

The same Army that has Corporals of Horse in the Sgt's mess. :sad:

[langleybaston]

The same Army that has Corporals of Horse in the Sgt's mess. :sad:

Afraid not ............ It is the Warrant Officers' and Corporals' Mess in the Household cavalry.

[Roadster280]

The Rock L/Cpl came about due to the army not being able to get their heads around SAC section leaders on operations.

If it did, the RAF are still claiming credit for it:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/rafwittering/newsweather/index.cfm?storyid=D48F3F97-5056-A318-A87135E2B5D42F3B

The same Army that has Corporals of Horse in the Sgt's mess. :sad:

Household Cavalry does not have a Sgts' Mess. It has a WOs and NCOs mess.

[Tankertrashnav]

Must admit I still have a 'virgin' Master's badge (complete with 'brass' ****ehawk) along with a couple of 'E' brevets (yeah, yeah Flying Badges) as they were the finest rank badges I've ever seen (still).

Brian do you remember when you got that badge? The original master aircrew badge didn't have the brass "****ehawk", that was added when the "star" system was abandoned in 1950 and NCO aircrew reverted to the original system, with the addition of a brass eagle over the chevrons.

The star system was as follows. All on a cloth "caudron" shaped badge within a wreath with an eagle above

Aircrew I - three stars with crown above
Aircrew II - three stars
Aircrew III - two stars
Aircrew IV - one star
Under training - no star

[gr4techie]

The Rock L/Cpl came about due to the army not being able to get their heads around SAC section leaders on operations.

A few Rock Ape friends informed me, that it was to recognise the responsibility that the role has.... commander of a 4 man fire team, 2 I/C of a 8 man section and (if I remember correctly) they're responsible for counting the ammunition usage.

[The Oberon]

A few Rock Ape friends informed me, that it was to recognise the responsibility that the role has.... commander of a 4 man fire team, 2 I/C of a 8 man section and (if I remember correctly) they're responsible for counting the ammunition usage.

OK if nobody fires more than 10 rounds.

[roving]

Ormeside28

I recall from previous posts on the WWII Brevet forum that you trained at 1BFTS where my dad had trained on an earlier course, but I did not realise that you were stationed in Changi when I was pottering about there awaiting a return flight to the UK on a Hermes in late 1958.

I will not post the details, but you are correct about the generous allowances, including flying pay, a posting to FEAF brought. One of the many perks was a free flight out during the summer school hols for my older brother who was at boarding school in the UK.

[Brian 48nav]

There was nothing generous about a posting to FEAF if you were a married officer under the age of 25! Under 21 in the case of airmen.

I went in late '67 as a Plt Off aged 21, only entitled to single rate of LOA, no entitlement to a quarter or hiring and my new bride was not entitled to a duty passage to join me. It was a struggle to cope believe me and certainly took the shine off what should have been a fantastic posting. The rank unfairness of the system was brought home to me by the fact that a guy who had joined on the same day as me but 4 years older and sporting a degree in Geography or something similar, but had less experience of employment i.e. only 1year as a teacher when we joined, whereas I had left school at 16 and had over double the work experience as him ( as a Police Cadet ), was now a Flt Lt on £4,000 compared to my £1,500.

Why the RAF thought there was something special about university graduates is beyond me - there was no recognition for guys who joined aged 25 or 26 and had been in industry for 6 or 7 years but though well qualified did not have a degree.

As Danny 42C has said on several occasions it still rankles with me too!

[langleybaston]

OK if nobody fires more than 10 rounds.

12 if he do come from Narfolk

[ian16th]

Afraid not ............ It is the Warrant Officers' and Corporals' Mess in the Household cavalry.

Yes if they are at home, but if they are billeted with a different regiment they use the Sgt's mess.

[Wensleydale]

This website explains the 1946 aircrew rank/badge system. NCO Badges - RAF 3_P (http://www.rafweb.org/Ranks-Uniform/Ranks6C.htm)



http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/insignia-flags-regalia/1080546d1496401929-raf-aircrew-ii-b-d-grade-badge-1946-1950-a-raf_rank_ac_photo.jpg

The main reason for few W/O Aircrew? SNCO Aircrew would need to be around for over two years to reach that exalted rank....in Bomber Command, most were either dead, POWs, or commissioned from the ranks.

[Ormeside28]

Thank you Danny, andy1999 and roving. I was on course 18 got mumps and finished on 19 course. I had a crew on each Coastal Squadron, and was lucky enough to have a Master Engineer in all three crews, also on one a Master Navigator, and on one a Master Signaller. The engineers had all been in Bomber Command during the war and were VERY clued up on Engines and airframes. In the Shacks of course the engineers had their own station, in the Neptune’s they had to sit on a wooden stool in the cockpit entrance where all the electric circuit breakers were on a large panel, and in front of them, under a flap in the floor were the fuel cross feeds. The Hastings engineer had his own position and his own set of prop controls and throttles. The niggle at the back of ones mind on the Shackleton was the translation unit which was phosphor bronze. It sat on the prop shaft between the propellers. The prop shaft drove the front propellor and the translation unit “translated” the power to the rear one. The props had to be exercised every two hours to ensure that the prongs on the unit were lubricated. The unit had its lubricant sealed. If the unit failed, the props could not be feathered, the front one could, but the rear idled, got hot, and several Shacks were lost when the rear prop bearings caused a fire which set fire to the wing. It will be interesting to see how the Poseidon works in the RAF. We had twelve Shackleton Squadrons in the fifties and sixties!!

[roving]

@Brian 48nav

I am sure that the loss of flying pay & overseas allowances are amongst the reasons why so many ex WWII pilots, who were arbitrarily deemed too old for operational flying in the late 1950's / early 1960's -- which was at the age of 41 in my dad's case, left the service as soon as they were able to.

As I posted on the Brevet thread, most of those who were ex WWII aircrew and who were in KL in the 1950's had, irrespective of how far they had risen up the flag pole, left the Service in the decade following the Sandy's 1957 Defence Review.

The irony is that when he retired and joined Marshalls at Shawbury in late 1961 he flew Vampires and later JP3s and JP4s at Shawbury, along with VR(T) flying until shortly before his 65th birthday.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for that link Wensleydale. Only one observation, the master aircrew badge illustrated is the post 1950 version with the eagle - the earlier version is the same but without the eagle.

[Wensleydale]

Thanks TTN. I find the entire RAFweb website very useful. There is little wonder that the 1946 aircrew rank structure and badges were dropped....confusing to find Aircrew IV with one star; Aircrew III with 2 stars; Aircrew II with 3 stars etc.

[longer ron]

Carried on over to Air Cadet gliding as well LOL.

P1 grade allowed solo flying without daily solo check.

P2 grade allowed passenger carrying (AEF cadets etc)

Caused much confusion later in life when I returned to gliding in Zimbabwe - when the CFI looked in my old Air Cadet log book he saw the P2 grade glider pilot 'chit' sellotaped on the inside cover and asked why one had a specific qualification to fly as a trainee :)

The 300 odd launches and 25 hrs TT also caused great mirth :).

[Danny42C]

Brian 48nav (#24),
,,,As Danny 42C has said on several occasions it still rankles with me too!...
I reckon your rankle was much worse than my rankle (reckoned as 127 days @ 1/6 a day = £9/10/6).

Geography degree rings a bell, Chap's name wasn't Ian Hutchinson by any chance ?

Danny.

[Brian 48nav]

Danny - not your man!

[Avionker]

Brian 48 Nav

A university degree is the most magical thing in the world. Couple that with a commission and it becomes, in the eyes of the RAF, a truly remarkable beast.

This was proven, beyond all doubt, when I was undergoing training as an Air Radar Technician. The majority of our instructors were RAF NCO’s undertaking instructor duties, all tradesmen with relevant experience. There was a smattering of Burnham lecturers, all very well qualified and equipped with the requisite knowledge within their subject fields.

Then there were the RAF Education Officers....

Now RF waveguide theory is not the easiest subject to wrap your brain around. We were a little bemused when we discovered that the WRAF Education Officer, standing in front of us had no engineering education or background. How she was expected to impart any useful knowledge to us, when she patently did not have a clue herself, remains a mystery to this day.

In the eyes of the RAF a commission and a bloody Zoology degree are a winning combination.

[JAVELINBOY]

In the eyes of the RAF a commission and a bloody Zoology degree are a winning combination.[/QUOTE]

Same in the UK Police Forces, partly the reason why they are all imploding today

[ian16th]

Brian 48 Nav

A university degree is the most magical thing in the world. Couple that with a commission and it becomes, in the eyes of the RAF, a truly remarkable beast.

This was proven, beyond all doubt, when I was undergoing training as an Air Radar Technician. The majority of our instructors were RAF NCO’s undertaking instructor duties, all tradesmen with relevant experience. There was a smattering of Burnham lecturers, all very well qualified and equipped with the requisite knowledge within their subject fields.

Then there were the RAF Education Officers....

Now RF waveguide theory is not the easiest subject to wrap your brain around. We were a little bemused when we discovered that the WRAF Education Officer, standing in front of us had no engineering education or background. How she was expected to impart any useful knowledge to us, when she patently did not have a clue herself, remains a mystery to this day.

In the eyes of the RAF a commission and a bloody Zoology degree are a winning combination.

In 1955, at Yatesbury, in the class ARF73, we had a National Serviceman who not only had a degree, but also a PhD in Zoology.

He passed the course and made J/T.

[Tankertrashnav]

Was he known as J/T Doctor Bloggs? ;)

[ian16th]

Was he known as J/T Doctor Bloggs? ;)
TTN,
Not something I'd thought of.
For the 9 month's of the course he was known to all in the class simply as 'Doc'.

We parted ways when the course ended, I RTU'd to Lindholme, the NS guys had to wait to be posted to units.

We had a guy in the RAFA at Johannesburg who had been a Sgt AG, I once sent you a photo of his medal group, he was a Baronet! So he had been Sgt. Sir XXXX.

[Avionker]

Was he known as J/T Doctor Bloggs? ;)

Ttn

I may have been misinformed but I was under the impression that only commissioned officers were permitted to append academic qualifications to their name?

[Tankertrashnav]

You may be correct, Avionker but I haven't ever met anyone who exercised the right, should it exist. I can imagine that anyone who insisted on being referred to as "Flight Lieutenant Doctor Bloggs" would be laughed out of the crewroom.

The army of course is full of "Lieutenant the Honourable this and Captain the Lord that", particularly in the Guards and the smarter cavalry regiments, but these were always rather thinner on the ground in the more plebeian RAF. Most will have heard this story about the famous Paddy Bandon, but it's worth repeating for those who haven't. (from Wiki)

Although the British Army and the Royal Navy have always had a significant number of peers within their ranks the new Earl of Bandon was almost unique within the RAF. Known to one and all by the familial name of "Paddy" Bandon he developed a devilish sense of humour and was involved in many scrapes with superior officers during his career. There were a number of anecdotes told about the Earl, perhaps the most repeated was the occasion that he and several of his fellow pilots wearing grubby and dishevelled flight dress, straight after combat flights, entered the Shepheard's Hotel in Cairo used as an officers’ mess during 1942. An immaculately dressed army officer snootily told him, "I am Major the Honourable (A N Other), Assistant Provost Marshal. You and your men are improperly dressed and must leave." The Earl replied, "I am Group Captain the Earl of Bandon and therefore outrank you on both counts*. Now do push off, there's a good chap."

*(in the usual version Bandon says "and that's you buggered on both counts")

[Cornish Jack]

Interesting note of '50s pay rates earlier in this thread. I joined in December '53 at 28/- per week!!, not per diem, and remained thus for about 6 months until we started flying, when we rocketed up to 42/- per week. Bear in mind that that munifence was abated by 'Barrack Damages' and other subtractions. 20 years as a Master reinforced the notion that it was the best rank in the RAF, if not the Services as a whole! Moving thence to British Airways (and afterwards to Virgin) emphasised just how bad the pay rates had been.

[ian16th]

Interesting note of '50s pay rates earlier in this thread. I joined in December '53 at 28/- per week!!, not per diem, and remained thus for about 6 months until we started flying, when we rocketed up to 42/- per week. Bear in mind that that munifence was abated by 'Barrack Damages' and other subtractions. 20 years as a Master reinforced the notion that it was the best rank in the RAF, if not the Services as a whole! Moving thence to British Airways (and afterwards to Virgin) emphasised just how bad the pay rates had been.
CJ
Did you start as a National Serviceman or a Regular?

As a Boy Entrant in 1952, our pay was 2/6 a day.
After 12 months service this increased to 3/6 a day.
If, during Boy's service one attained the age of 17 years 6 Months one went to the minimum regular 'man's' rate of pay for an AC2, which was 7/- a day.

These rates do not indicate what was actually paid!

When on 2/6 a day, one received 10/- a week.
When on 3/6 a day, one received 15/- a week
When on 7/- a day one received £1.00 a week.

The difference was accumulated as 'credits', this was paid out prior to each of our 3 leave periods. Those over 17½ often received vast sums, some over £20.00!

There were as you say, the 'debits' such as the dreaded barrack damages. One problem a Boy faced was the dreaded command to, 'Get a new Blue!' We didn't wear battle dress, we had 2 'Best Blues', (buttons to clean every day) one kept for parades and walking out, the other one as our working blue.

The cost of a Blue was more than a quarters clothing allowance, so the difference was deducted from what we were paid. This could mean drawing as little as 2/6 a week until the debt was paid.

This leads to another story; a Boy who had been drawing 2/6 a week for some time, was reprimanded for a somewhat lackadaisical salute at Pay Parade. To which he retorted, 'What do you expect for half a crown, a bl**dy march past?'

I forget if it was 7 or 14 days jankers that he got.

[rolling20]

This website explains the 1946 aircrew rank/badge system. NCO Badges - RAF 3_P (http://www.rafweb.org/Ranks-Uniform/Ranks6C.htm)



http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/insignia-flags-regalia/1080546d1496401929-raf-aircrew-ii-b-d-grade-badge-1946-1950-a-raf_rank_ac_photo.jpg

The main reason for few W/O Aircrew? SNCO Aircrew would need to be around for over two years to reach that exalted rank....in Bomber Command, most were either dead, POWs, or commissioned from the ranks.
Chap called Syd Cook on 103 Squadron went from being a Sergeant in October 1942 to a Squadron Leader on 156 Squadron , losing his life on the eve of his 22nd birthday in October 1943,having completed 51 ops, remarkable!

[roving]

WWII air crew ranks being current, what rank is the officer closest to the camera?

[Danny42C]

roving (#45),

Wild guesses: A US Captain ? A (Free) French Lieutenant ?

Danny.

[langleybaston]

For all I can see of rank badges etc, it might as well be The French Lieutenant's Woman,

[Danny42C]

rolling 20 (#44),

Thanks for a charming pic. Has anyone else noticed the close resemblance between the officer on the left and "Flying Officer Fixe" (the Nav in P.O.Prune's crew), as sketched by Hooper in his glorious "P.O. Prune on VE Day" cartoon, along with "Sgt Backtune", the other members of his crew (whose names I sadly forget), dog "Binder" and WAAF Winsum (who, Hooper tells us "became Mrs Prune" - poor girl !).

I cannot find the cartoon again. Anybody else ?

Danny.

[Wander00]

LB - or The French woman's Lieutenant

[roving]

Thank you for the posts which are as entertaining as any found on the caption thread. I think they are on a boat on the Nile, I guess at the end of the war.