View Full Version : G.I Brides Family flights
SpringHeeledJack
13th Dec 2017, 17:21
Whist having a conversation with my lovely 92 year old neighbour, she started recounting her trip in 1954 to visit her sister who had become a G.I Bride after WWII and emigrated to Wisconsin with her USAAF John Wayne lookalike pilot husband. She remembered that they routed Gatwick-Prestwick-NYC (Idlewild ?) on a propeller aircraft that 'rattled a lot' and had brushed aluminium wings whose rivets reminded her of her wartime job making wings for the Gloucester Gladiator amongst others. They flew the NYC-Chicago stretch in a jet, which was a revelation by all accounts!
Would any of the knowledgeable of this forum be able to flesh out the airlines and aircraft for such a trip ? Apparently it was part of a subsidised programme to allow G.I Brides families to visit them.
washoutt
14th Dec 2017, 10:57
A transport jet in the USA in 1954??
I too would be most curious.
seafire6b
14th Dec 2017, 11:04
I was thinking perhaps "the jet" was a Capital Airlines Viscount, but apparently they weren't introduced until the following year.
SpringHeeledJack
14th Dec 2017, 11:21
Maybe her memory of the year is a bit off as was my spelling of Gloster auto corrected to the town! I'm assuming that she might have meant 1964, although when I queried the date she seemed to stand by the earlier date. Because of the LGW departure I'm guessing that the prop liner must have been a charter, but UK or US owned ?
DaveReidUK
14th Dec 2017, 12:41
Because of the LGW departure I'm guessing that the prop liner must have been a charter, but UK or US owned ?
Or possibly neither:
https://img.planespotters.net/photo/023000/original/tf-lli-loftleidir-icelandic-canadair-cl-44j_PlanespottersNet_023875.jpg
Groundloop
15th Dec 2017, 07:32
The CL-44 was a turboprop so it would not have "rattled a lot" and did not have a lot of visible rivets.
DaveReidUK
15th Dec 2017, 09:22
Depends what the OP means by "rattled". I've not flown on the CL-44, but if it was anything like the Vanguard, with the same Tyne powerplant, it would have vibrated a heck of a lot.
brakedwell
15th Dec 2017, 11:05
Depends what the OP means by "rattled". I've not flown on the CL-44, but if it was anything like the Vanguard, with the same Tyne powerplant, it would have vibrated a heck of a lot.
Vibrations from the props. CL44 and the Britannia had flush rivets. My guess would be a DC6 or Constellation.
evansb
15th Dec 2017, 15:35
The Canadair CL-44 was introduced to airline service in 1960. In 1954, some charter firms were still operating DC-4/C-54 types on trans-Atlantic routes.
Gatwick wasn't open in 1954.
The CL-44 was a turboprop so it would not have "rattled a lot" and did not have a lot of visible rivets.
Unlikely as a) Loftleidir never served Gatwick (used Heathrow) nor Prestwick (used Glasgow Renfrew. later Abbotsinch).
evansb
16th Dec 2017, 17:00
So, either the departure airport is incorrect or the date, 1954, is incorrect, or the "jet" flight was incorrect, or all three...
British Eagle did some military charter work in the 1960's.
SpringHeeledJack
16th Dec 2017, 17:22
Departure airport correct, 1954 probably incorrect, jet flight correct. Will gain further info on monday when I'll get the chance to chat with her again.
Gatwick opened in 1958. Given that financial support was being given to US military-connected families by a US agency, I would expect the carrier to certainly be from the US. Jets from New York (Idlewild/JFK, not La Guardia) to Chicago started in 1959 by all three of American, TWA and United, 707 or DC8 and generally continuing to the West Coast.
US transatlantic charter operators (given it was Gatwick) ran in the late 1950s still a lot with DC4s, changing in the early 1960s to Constellations, which came onto the secondhand market before DC6Bs, while DC7s were just too complex and unreliable. It's a hunch only but I would guess Connie Gatwick-Prestwick-Gander-Idlewild, then a jet to Chicago.
Regarding the turboprop Viscount, and later Electra, US operators did have the habit of misleading by branding these as JET powered, with JET written very bold, and powered, or prop, not at all so.
SpringHeeledJack
18th Dec 2017, 14:25
So......
The year was 1964, her daughter was 17, she's now a glamorous 70 ;-) , so that makes the year 1964. They took off from LGW, flew to Prestwick where they refuelled and took on more passengers. From there they flew nonstop over Iceland and Greenland until they landed in.....Montreal. Thence onto New York. From there an hour's flight in a jet that had tables with four facing seats in places and was so smooth in comparison with the rattling and loud prop liner. Suggestions as to the airlines and types please.
That's quite a leg for a prop aircraft, Prestwick to Montreal. I'll go back to my suggestion that it was a US Supplemental carrier, and the most likely type would be the L-1049 Constellation. These were run that year by Capitol, Trans International and American Flyers on charters to Europe. They all had US government/military contracts. Capitol had the biggest fleet of them, I'll go for them.
JFK (it was by then) to Chicago: American or TWA 707, United 720 or DC8. They each ran multiple trips a day. I would guess the transatlantic was overnight, continuing to Chicago the next morning.
Montreal was actually quite common as a stop on northerly great circle routes to New York, if you could make it past Goose Bay, and fuel there would be a sight cheaper than having to haul it by tanker all the way up to Labrador.
DaveReidUK
18th Dec 2017, 15:21
JFK (it was by then) to Chicago: American or TWA 707, United 720 or DC8. They each ran multiple trips a day.
United also flew the Caravelle between JFK and ORD, and those would still have been operating in 1964.
I don't recall whether it had any rearward-facing seats. though.
However, the United Caravelles had F seating only (64 seats; 16 rows of 2+2). I doubt a subsidised connection to a charter flight would run to F when there were many other Coach options.
Certainly the lady in question would not have been allowed on the 5pm Caravelle departure to Chicago, the infamous "Men Only" United flight :)
SpringHeeledJack
18th Dec 2017, 15:49
She did mention that it was an incredibly long flight to New York and that they arrived in the middle of the night with no where to rest until the early morning connection to Chicago (Midway?). The gauge of the Caravelle probably wouldn't have allowed tables with seats facing, or am I disparaging Sud Aviation's fine product ?
https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1128888
DaveReidUK
18th Dec 2017, 17:28
The gauge of the Caravelle probably wouldn't have allowed tables with seats facing, or am I disparaging Sud Aviation's fine product ?
I believe that it was the first row (only) that was rearward-facing.
New York JFK to Chicago. All to O'Hare (in fact Midway seems to be closed).
United
0100 - DC8
0800 - B720
1130 - B720
1500 - DC8
1800 - B720
1900 - DC8
2025 - DC8
2355 - DC8
TWA
0830 - Cv880
0930 - Cv880
1130 - B707
1630 - Cv880
1730 - B707
1830 - Cv880
2100 - B707
2250 - B707
American. All B707
0800
0900
1000
1100
1300
1400
1500
1600
1700
1800
1930
2030
United didn't run any Caravelles into JFK at all, only to Newark (including the "Men only", which later went to La Guardia. And I'd overlooked the TWA Convairs.
DaveReidUK
19th Dec 2017, 07:09
United didn't run any Caravelles into JFK at all, only to Newark (including the "Men only", which later went to La Guardia. And I'd overlooked the TWA Convairs.
Not quite.
The "Executive" initially flew from LGA to Midway (with DC-6s), then briefly (1961/1962) from Idlewild to O'Hare with the Caravelle, before moving the New York end to EWR. I don't know whether they returned to LGA before ceasing in 1970.
Caravelle at IDL:
http://ourairports.biz/img/1246/image216_2.jpg