Veterans To Be 'Formally Recognised With Official ID Cards'

[superplum]

From Forces TV website:

Britain's 2.5 million veterans are to be formally recognised with their own IDs to show they served in the armed forces.
Ex-military personnel will be issued with a new type of driving licence stamped with 'V'.
A separate card will be handed to those who do not drive, with the IDs expected to be rolled out from next year.
Speaking of Britain's former Royal Navy, Army and RAF servicemen and women, Prime Minister Theresa May said: "Those who have served deserve recognition for their sacrifice throughout their lives and we will continue to make sure that they get it."
The plans were first mentioned by Tobias Ellwood, the minister responsible for defence personnel and veterans, in the Commons in October.
He said the ID option was part of Government plans to improve the information it keeps about ex-military personnel.
Mr Ellwood, who was in the Royal Green Jackets for five years, serving in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Germany, told The Sun newspaper he was "delighted" about the introduction of the initiative.
He said: "As a former soldier, I am aware of the personal attachment with the service ID.
"Carried at all times, it becomes symbolic of the responsibility and there is a strange sense of loss when upon departing the Armed Forces, it is taken from you.
"I'm delighted this initiative, which sits in the Armed Forces Covenant, will help us all better recognise our veterans and their service to our country."
It is being reported that the cards will give veterans better access to specialist services such as priority healthcare, housing and retail discounts as well as giving a sense of pride for having served their country.


Apols if this has already been listed.

[NutLoose]

Ex-military personnel will be issued with a new type of driving licence stamped with 'V'.How apt, if your car carries a V registration mark, it indicates it has been written off in its past life :E


Nice to see though.

[Onceapilot]

And yet, They "save money" by not awarding the LSGC to Officers who qualify but, whose service ceased before 2014.
I call on Prime Minister Theresa May to tell us why they recognise past Service with this move but not with the LSGC?
Quote Theresa May:
"Those who have served deserve recognition for their sacrifice throughout their lives and we will continue to make sure that they get it." :yuk:

OAP

[Top Bunk Tester]

Whilst a much appreciated and welcome and overdue gesture, why can this not be implemented before:

The scheme, to be announced by the prime minister later, could be implemented in the early 2020s.

Source: Armed forces veterans to get ID to recognise 'sacrifice' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42336381)

[Pontius Navigator]

Will we get a free lanyard to wear it round our necks.

[melmothtw]

I'm reminded of this classic little ditty from Curb Your Enthusiasm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ

[NutLoose]

Why was asked, I think He said the ID option was part of Government plans to improve the information it keeps about ex-military personnel. says it all, the rest is just a neat way to wrap it all up.

[Basil]

What's the cost/benefit to the ex-serviceman? ('man' as in mankind ;))

[Danny42C]

Britain's 2.5 million veterans are to be formally recognised with their own IDs to show they served in the armed forces.
Goody-goody (I've already got my Veteran's Badge - holds my Remembrance Poppy on a treat) - and retail discounts as well...
Better and better !
The scheme, to be announced by the prime minister later, could be implemented in the early 2020s.
Counts me out, then (in all probability). Good idea while it lasted !

Danny.

[Exrigger]

and retail discounts as well...

Already covered by the Defence Discount Service card.

[Wander00]

Hope it is better information than Forces TV programming. What rubbish they put out, IMHO of course

[Herod]

Try using the DDS card in Costa. It's apparently up to the individual manager, and I've not met one yet who will accept it. I suspect this will be the same.

[NutLoose]

Quote:
Britain's 2.5 million veterans are to be formally recognised with their own IDs to show they served in the armed forces.
Goody-goody (I've already got my Veteran's Badge - holds my Remembrance Poppy on a treat) Quote:
- and retail discounts as well...
Better and better !
Quote:
The scheme, to be announced by the prime minister later, could be implemented in the early 2020s
.
Counts me out, then (in all probability). Good idea while it lasted !

Danny.

https://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=9988890) https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/quote.gif (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9988890)I do hope you will be here well into your Century Danny, after all you need to get your birthday card from Betty still, your posts are one of the pleasures of coming on here and it is an honour to read them.



..

[golfbananajam]

And because its a driving license we'll have to pay for the privilege :-(

[Just This Once...]

Just been sent the 'V' link to Theresa May's page, along with an unanswered question on the nationality of the troops shown:

https://www.facebook.com/TheresaMayOfficial/

Apparently she sees the Armed Forces first-hand but actual recognition is a lot more challenging.

[ian16th]

And because its a driving license we'll have to pay for the privilege :-(
What happens if you are an ex-pat and have swapped a UK license for a foreign one?

I'll bet ex-pats haven't even been thought of.

[downsizer]

I'm not out yet, so my mileage might vary, but I can't see any conceivable reason I'd want this.

[Rocket2]

I have no intention of trading in my pristine green paper licence unless I get caught for some transgression - it confounded the hell out of the Americans during a recent trip when I needed to hire a car :}

[jindabyne]

Will it get me into my old Mess bar at Marham where I was a Wg Cdr - thought not.

Political platitudes.

[ian16th]

Will it get me into my old Mess bar at Marham where I was a Wg Cdr - thought not.

Political platitudes.

Try The Bell!

Oh, its gone.:{

Mind you it really was a grotty pub.

[jindabyne]

Best in the local area though!

[Coltishall. loved it]

Veteran: Find it hard to believe that you only have to serve for 24hrs to become one?

[Basil]

Will TA count - I could have two :}

[Melchett01]

I'm not entirely sure how a 'V' device on a driving licence counts as a veterans ID card. Seems to be asking people to stretch their imaginations somewhat.

[Pontius Navigator]

Which way round will the V be?

[Lima Juliet]

Crikey, you ungrateful bunch. You don’t have to have one; it isn’t compulsory!

Personally, if it affords me some form of recognition that I have served the country and that it might give me “a leg up” for extra help in the future when I need it, then I am most grateful. As it might bring me some other benefits and costs nothing when I have to change my photo licence every 10 years anyway, then I, for one, will most likely decide to have it.

Thank you

[MightyGem]

Try using the DDS card in Costa.
Well, you can, but it's not on the DDS list of participating companies, so that's probably why
It's apparently up to the individual manager, and I've not met one yet who will accept it.

[Stuff]

The MoD is working with the Department for Transport and the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on the design for the special driving licenses which will be rolled out from next year.

As enticing as a watermark on my driving licence in 2020 might be. Is there any chance they could work with Carillion Amey on fixing the heating in my quarter that hasn't worked for the last 4 weeks?

... thought not.

[Tankertrashnav]

Right, I'm going out on a limb here. I'm expecting to get flamed, and I've got my tin hat ready.

If I am honest, I don't see the fact that I have served in HM Forces, in itself entitles me to special treatment, any more than if I had been a policeman, a fireman, a nurse or even a street sweeper if it comes to that. I'm not talking about men and women who have suffered as a result of their service, either physically or mentally, it is entirely right that they should be looked after well. What I'm talking about is the vast majority of us, including I suspect a lot of us on here, who spent a number of years of their life doing interesting and varied work, probably travelling a fair bit, and getting adequately, if not over-generously paid for it. Also for anybody of my age or younger we all volunteered, nobody made us join up.

I'm proud of my service but I don't want any special treatment for it. I haven't applied for a Defence Discount Card, which I understand is pretty useless in any case, and I wont be bothering to claim this new thing (or get a V on my driving licence), should I live that long.

Right, I'm off down to the shelter now ;)

[ShyTorque]

TTN,
Don’t fret. As already pointed out, it’s not compulsory to have one.

Not sure I’d bother, either. I served for almost twenty years, but I’ve since worked as a civilian for longer.

[Exrigger]

I also will not bother with the driving licence, unless they automatically do it when I (if I) renew it at 70. As for the discount card most of the offers are on line ones for gift cards, but on the high street there are enough to get 10% off, especially if you are into outdoor pursuits.

I usually try two methods of getting discounts, one is the DDC and the other is the pensioner ploy, so far it has worked in ones that are not part of the DDC side but still gave me a good discount, one said because I asked both those were a double strike and he would add to the cost as a surcharge, he was only joking, wife gets a bit embarrassed when I ask, but likes the discounts when I get them.

[ORAC]

I get better discounts with my NUS card.......

[Pontius Navigator]

The Veterans badge, and probably DDC will work in the US.

We use the DDC in our local factory shop. Dishwashers tablets and washing powder etc are inexpensive there but another £2 off is always welcome. They are quite happy to extend the discount to my MiL when she shops with us.

As for a big V on your driving licence, that could work a treat when hiring a car in some countries or parts of UK.

[ImageGear]

With the possibility of a Corbinista revolution around the corner I suggest that anybody wishing to self identify as a "Veteran" will be inviting a visit from the "reconstruction" cadre. (May happen anyway..)

Imagegear

[Pontius Navigator]

Personally I don't in public or social occasions advertise WIWI. . .

I recall once at a campsite in France Mrs PN asked our neighbour how her husband got his gammy leg. "Oh it was ze war you know, bomb bomb bomb, and what does your husband do?" "Oh. Just a civil servant"

[melmothtw]

Might there not be a security issue with being so readily identified as former UK forces through your driving licence?

In the early 2000s during a visit to Ireland I realised with some consternation that my driving licence noted my birthplace as "British Forces Cyprus". I flagged this to the DVLA on my return, and they sent me a new one (for free) just marked Cyprus.

[KelvinD]

Well, I just attempted to register with the DDS card. At the outset, they say they will need your service number, in order to confirm you are eligible. Having provided this, they come up with another requirement; provide your service ID card or go to an MoD web site to pay for your service records, in order to confirm you are eligible. And I thought I had done the confirming bit with the service number. I shall give it some thought before proceeding any further.

[Haraka]

Personally I don't in public or social occasions advertise WIWI. . .

Landing out on a gliding cross-country with an RAFG GSA K8 from Gütersloh in the late 70's, I got the attention of a middle-aged couple picnicking, who strolled over to the glider -resplendent in RAF roundels .
I was invited to join them whilst waiting for recovery.
The gentleman remarked, after confirming that I was in the RAF , that he was in the German Navy during the Second Great Misunderstanding. It transpired the he was a survivor of the Tirpitz.

" An hour and a half in the bloody water without a life raft . Oh yes , I remember the RAF."
.
.
"More cake, young man ?"

[Wig Wag]

I recall that, back in the 1980's, when the RAF had a morale and retention problem, they appointed the splendid Air Commodore Bobby Robson to review the problem and report. He bounded into the Officers's Mess Ante Room with a number of cracking wheezes. One of these was a form of ID Card for veterans.

Nothing wrong with that for, back in those days, it was a sentimental gesture and more a way of keeping the affiliation going.

I wouldn't trust the present civil service with an ID Card. They will put some kind of chip in it and use it for information gathering so they can keep tabs on ex serviceman.

Virtually (pun intended) everything that Whitehall touches these days involves gathering personal data.

So, I wouldn't touch an veteran's ID Card with the long end of a selfie stick.

[Lynxman]

Well, I just attempted to register with the DDS card. At the outset, they say they will need your service number, in order to confirm you are eligible. Having provided this, they come up with another requirement; provide your service ID card or go to an MoD web site to pay for your service records, in order to confirm you are eligible. And I thought I had done the confirming bit with the service number. I shall give it some thought before proceeding any further.



I just obtained my service records and it didn't cost a penny. I just filled in a MOD Form 1694 (Apr 15 version) that is available publicly on the web, sent it off, and had my service records within 2 weeks. I had noted that if you go via the mod.gov.uk website there is a charge attached for exactly the same service.

[Herod]

First, apologies to MightyGem. You're right, Costa aren't on the list. My mistake. Secondly, I signed up for DDS, but IIRC the service number was sufficient. No need for service records. Thirdly, the RAFA also have discount arrangements, and I believe also have a veteran's ID card as well as the RAFA membership one. All, I suspect, better than a "V" on the driving licence.

[charliegolf]

I get better discounts with my NUS card.......

Had £80 off a Macbook for showing my OU identifier- cheaper even than an NUS card ORAC!:ok:

CG

[Basil]

Hmm, wonder if a traffic police officer would be inclined to be a little more, ahem, charitable to a V card holder? :O

[NutLoose]

Just tell him the V is on there for him...


I don't think I will bother, as I never bothered with the veterans badge either, or the discount card, in my own way I do not consider myself as a veteran, simply an ex serviceman, a veteran to me is some one that ran up the beaches in France or fought in Afghanistan etc.

[Wig Wag]

I just obtained my service records and it didn't cost a penny. I just filled in a MOD Form 1694 (Apr 15 version) that is available publicly on the web, sent it off, and had my service records within 2 weeks. I had noted that if you go via the mod.gov.uk website there is a charge attached for exactly the same service.

Just out of interest how detailed are 'service records' ?

Do they include things like training reports, 1369's, medical reports and correspondence?

[Herod]

When my service records arrived I was astounded to see the correspondence. There were even copies of air-mail letters my mother had written from Oz in the early sixties, inquiring as to the educational requirements for joining the RAF. I was only 15 at the time. As it happened, the RAF would not accept Oz qualifications,which resulted in home study and my being the only person in WA to sit GCE papers.

[Wig Wag]

When my service records arrived I was astounded to see the correspondence. There were even copies of air-mail letters my mother had written from Oz in the early sixties, inquiring as to the educational requirements for joining the RAF. I was only 15 at the time. As it happened, the RAF would not accept Oz qualifications,which resulted in home study and my being the only person in WA to sit GCE papers.

That could be quite amusing as a chap could learn what the powers that be really thought of him - not what he thought they thought of him! :O

[Lynxman]

WigWag

Not too detailed. Medical/dental records, at least from the RN, come separately from a different department so I am still awaiting them although they were requested on the same form.
It included the documents I signed at the recruiting office back in 1978, copies of the Official Secrets Act that I have signed, copies of the forms used to extend my service, copies of my Service Certificate (I already have the original), copies of receipts for issue of medals, copy of my application to discharge (!), copy of the form used to inform them of my marriage and a listing of my service qualifications. Still a treasure trove of information I felt, and as I said, at no cost.

[sycamore]

Wig-wag,you have to ask for the f1369,and f5000 series ,plus anything else; its all photocopied but sometimes page 2 isnt done,so it can be difficult to decipher `Mac the knife`...

[Lyneham Lad]

Well, I just attempted to register with the DDS card. At the outset, they say they will need your service number, in order to confirm you are eligible. Having provided this, they come up with another requirement; provide your service ID card or go to an MoD web site to pay for your service records, in order to confirm you are eligible. And I thought I had done the confirming bit with the service number. I shall give it some thought before proceeding any further.

Having seen mention of the DDS card in this thread, I looked at their website and decided that for £4.99 for five years, it might well be worth a few minutes of my time to register. Entered my service number, then scanned/uploaded a .pdf copy of my RAF 'Certificate of Discharge' and paid the £4.95. Shortly afterwards an email arrived informing me that my membership had been approved. Presumably the actual card will arrive in the not too distant future...

First time I have bothered with anything regarding being ex-RAF - no Veterans badge etc.

[airpolice]

How apt, if your car carries a V registration mark, it indicates it has been written off in its past life :E


Nice to see though.

I suspect that you are thinking of a Q reg, which is used to indicate a vehicle of undetermined age.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

The DDS card has been a great innovation. The list of participating companies has increased exponentially since it's inception. Perhaps companies are "shamed" into joining after being asked if they are on the list and getting negative social media feedback if they aren't ? Whatever the reason, it has saved me a lot of money, from Apple employee disount on an iPhone to 10% off for Premier Inn breakfasts to 15% off Cotswold Outdoor clothing to name just a few.

I check the DDS list before making any purchases. Under a fiver for the card which lasts five years is a bargain. If the "V" driving licence is to provide the same sort of discounts I'm in; where parting with my hard earned money is concerned I have no pride whatsoever.

NEO

[Tankertrashnav]

I am slightly disappointed that nobody has taken me up on the main point of my earlier post which is "Do you actually think that having served in HM Forces as opposed to 101 other occupations entitles you to some sort of special treatment?"

As I said before, other than provision for those whose health, mental or physical has been affected by their service, I see no reason why we should expect any special treatment purely because we once wore the Queen's uniform. Theresa May said I deserved recognition for my "sacrifice". I made no sacrifice, I saw my time in the RAF as a privilege, and at times I couldn't believe how lucky I was, compared with old school friends slogging through life in a boring civil service job or a bank, etc. And yes, of course I recognise that many have made sacrifices, some have made the supreme one, but I have already said those people, or their dependents, should be adequately compensated

Good luck to everyone applying for these various cards, but as somebody pointed out to me, I don't have to have one, so I wont be applying. Does anybody who, like me, made no particular sacrifice still think they deserve special recognition? I'd really like to hear your reasons.

[Basil]

I am slightly disappointed that nobody has taken me up on the main point of my earlier post which is "Do you actually think that having served in HM Forces as opposed to 101 other occupations entitles you to some sort of special treatment?"

As I said before, other than provision for those whose health, mental or physical has been affected by their service, I see no reason why we should expect any special treatment purely because we once wore the Queen's uniform. Theresa May said I deserved recognition for my "sacrifice". I made no sacrifice, I saw my time in the RAF as a privilege, and at times I couldn't believe how lucky I was, compared with old school friends slogging through life in a boring civil service job or a bank, etc. And yes, of course I recognise that many have made sacrifices, some have made the supreme one, but I have already said those people, or their dependents, should be adequately compensated

Good luck to everyone applying for these various cards, but as somebody pointed out to me, I don't have to have one, so I wont be applying. Does anybody who, like me, made no particular sacrifice still think they deserve special recognition? I'd really like to hear your reasons.
In my case, agreed. Apart from training, which was the most amusing part of my service, with the opportunity to kill myself if I liked, the rest was seriously just OK - with the added joy of being able to bump into other aeroplanes LL at night but no big deal cf industry in which I came close to death more often than I did in the mil.
Caveat - I was never in actual combat. Different.

[Basil]

where parting with my hard earned money is concerned I have no pride whatsoever.

No difficulty with that.
Recollect about 60 years ago, when the price in the window was the price you paid, going into a shop and making an offer. The shock on the sales assistant's face was, itself, worth the effort. :ok:

[glad rag]

Just tell him the V is on there for him...


I don't think I will bother, as I never bothered with the veterans badge either, or the discount card, in my own way I do not consider myself as a veteran, simply an ex serviceman, a veteran to me is some one that ran up the beaches in France or fought in Afghanistan etc.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, to quote a friend of mine who has been shot at in a Vulcan, and some others, and they pay me to fly

Yes, one day is extracting the urine. My daughter who did two enjoyable years in the Rock Aux does not believe she deserves a veteran's badge. Others, with many years Service, being messed around by amateurs, and under a discipline regime and the inability to say no, to strike, or to quit may think that sufficient justification.

As soon as you set any criteria you introduce administrative costs and grievance such as the jubilee medals or LSGC. On the latter, I don't recall many men complaining if they missed out.

The bottom lines of course are you don't have to apply or as Outlaw might say, what's in it for me?

[FantomZorbin]

I do not consider myself as a veteran, simply an ex serviceman, a veteran to me is some one that ran up the beaches in France or fought in Afghanistan etc. Totally agree NutLoose .

[airpolice]

I do not consider myself as a veteran, simply an ex serviceman, a veteran to me is some one that ran up the beaches in France or fought in Afghanistan etc.

I feel that way too. I think Veteran is not the best choice of name.

A couple of years back I was out for a ride-along in Las Vegas, with a retired vso in the local police. We had occasion to contact the duty officer in a police office, and my pal calls the non emergency number, and identifies himself by his registered number. The girl on the phone asks him two verifying questions, then deals with him as if he was still in the job. They have systems in place in their control room to handle that kind of call.

He carries a retired police officer's ID which is accepted as proof that he used to be a cop, and gets access to certain things based on that.

Amercian service people have a retired service ID card which allows them access to base facilities (the bar) as if they were still serving.

Some of that, like our Defence Discount Card, gets you money off at the till in some places. Mostly it is a way of quickly authenticating to current service & police people, that you have served, and therefore are likely to know how many beans make five.


I suspect that the next step in the UK gov drive to be everyone's pal, while refusing to actually pay some of them a decent wage, will be to offer a driving licence with a big E for emergency services staff, or a 999 logo on it for anyone working in the blue light trades.

That leads us to an advanced Paramedic asking why the old fart in Patient Transport service or the control room gets one as well.

The cops out dealing with angry drunks, asking why the Inspector in charge of the Fixed Penalty Office gets one.

The sharp end Firefighter going into burning buildings as a matter of routine, asking why the guy on Community Education or Local Authority Liason gets one.

Of course it's all pish, but like everything else, Westminster has decided to do it, so we just accept it and move on.


Don't forget that they are the same shower of self serving fokkers who wanted to have a vigil outside Parliament, heads bowed, to mark the fact that the work to be carried out on "Big Ben" was somehow worthy of their time and respect.

We didn't see them all standing outside with heads bowed at the funeral for Keith Palmer. He gave his life protecting them, and what they should stand for. What they actually want to stand for is a clock tower, and of course, four more years.


One day soon, when the many stop fearing the few, the few will need to fear the many. That's what it will take for the UK Government to actually appreciate those who serve, and have served in the military.

[Gulf Flyer]

next step in the UK gov drive to be everyone's pal

Getting the estimated 5000 ex-servicemen (who don't have mental issues) off our streets across the UK would, for me, be a good start.

Penny's worth - a 24hr veteran (?), give me strength!

[Tankertrashnav]

One day soon, when the many stop fearing the few, the few will need to fear the many. That's what it will take for the UK Government to actually appreciate those who serve, and have served in the military.


Fair enough, as long as people don't want to start shaking me by the hand and "thanking me for my service" as seems to be the practice now in the US, although perhaps that's a reaction to spitting on them which was more common 30 or 40 years ago :*

Concur about the term "veteran". That's an old car isn't it, and a vet is someone I take my dog to when she need attention. I'm an ex serviceman, and Mrs TTN is an ex servicewoman. Perhaps we can be ex servicepersons!

[Mick Strigg]

Does one really want a big V on ones driving licence when renting a car in an "enemy" country? Are we not opening ourselves up to risk? As a Falklands Vet, I wouldn't like to advertise this fact in Argentina for example!

[Danny42C]

Tankertrashnav (#61),
...Fair enough, as long as people don't want to start shaking me by the hand and "thanking me for my service" as seems to be the practice now in the US...
This excerpt from my Page 120, #3298 on "Pilots brevet" may amuse
...And we were the "blue-eyed boys". A little of it rubbed off on me one morning. I was trotting along in Liverpool with my new wings and sergeant's stripes. I can remember exactly where I was - by the side of Lewis's, opposite the Adelphi. A dear little old lady buttonholed me: "GOD BLESS YOU, MY BOY", she quavered (surprisingly loudly). Passers-by murmured approval. Liverpudlians wouldn't see all that many aircrew at that stage of the war, so I suppose I stuck out a bit. Naturally shy, I was dumb with embarrassment, but managed to stammer a few words of thanks. I hadn't even flown my first "op", but Liverpool had taken two year's battering from the Luftwaffe, so I suppose I looked like a possible St.George for their dragon. I'll never forget that day.

I was posted to Bournemouth, another Transit Camp, in a seaside hotel - had been a rather swish one, I think, but can't recall the name. Here the natives were well used to seeing aircrew and old ladies did not greet you with little glad cries - nor young ones either, come to that, (the Yanks were in town)...
and this:
...Concur about the term "veteran". That's an old car is...n't it, and a vet is someone I take my dog to when she need attention...
In Customs & Excise (as then was, and where I earned an honest crust to augment my pension)), you started as an Officer of C & E: after four years service, if you'd kept your nose clean and impressed your superiors, you could be placed on a "vetted list" from which you could "bid" for promotion into any Senior Officer post falling vacant in tne UK that no one senior to you wanted.

Was on it myself, but the only posts on offer were "in the smoke" and so graciously declined... As in the RAF, I remained a "bottom feeder" to the end of my days ("he started at the bottom and liked it there").

Danny.

[NutLoose]

I cannot see that when you leave the services and hand in your ID, they couldn't hand you a replacement for your ID card that allows you to possibly use the facilities / shopping etc, similar to the current one, but with "Retired" emblasoned across it.. Simple and probably really cheaper to administer. After all if they are going to start doing driving licences ( and ID's for those without one,) surely the easiest system is at your point of departure, I realise it would only work for those still serving, but it would probably be a cheaper option. ....

Or is that too sensible?.

[Tankertrashnav]

Danny - if I had met you in Liverpool after their "blitz" I daresay I would have joined in the handshaking - and quite right too!

In my case, however, if anybody wants to thank me for my service I hope they realise that a lot of it consisted of trips to pleasant places in the sunshine, with nobody firing at me en route. My total experience of being under fire consisted of being around the corner when a grenade was chucked during an operation I was on in Aden (nobody hurt). I distinctly remember sitting beside the hotel pool on a long weekend in Las Vegas and asking the rest of the crew if they realised we were getting paid for this!

No handshakes required!

[Haraka]

All of us drawing military pensions are in known postal locations,including those of us overseas. Indeed, I get phoned up from time to time, to confirm that I am still alive.

What is so bloody difficult in putting a card in the post?

[ShyTorque]

All of us drawing military pensions are in known postal locations,including those of us overseas. Indeed, I get phoned up from time to time, to confirm that I am still alive.

What is so bloody difficult in putting a card in the post?

They must be quite worried about you. I left 23 years ago and no-one's ever phoned or written to ask how I'm getting on...

[NutLoose]

They are probably still trying to forget you...:p

[Danny42C]

TTN,

Nice of you to draw the distinction - but even in war it is a truism that life consists of "95% boredom and 5% sheer terror", and I hadn't got as far as the terror bit when you would've been shaking my hand.

And I've repeatedly made clear that our Burma Vultee Vengeance operations were the safest imaginable: with few exceptions everyone killed in a VV had killed himslf (accidentally, of course), and mostly in training.

As wars go, I suppose I had a "soft"one, but then: "we each had to fight the war we were given" was one of the most profound statements about war ever made. You had to be happy with whatever cards Fate had dealt you. I was one of the lucky ones.

Nevertheless I am content to be a "veteran" - if only on account of my great age !

Danny.

[NutLoose]

Soft war, blimey, I would hate to see a hard one. I take my hat off to you Sir. I would imagine having to force land anywhere in Burma would be a hazard in itself, even without the enemy... By the way, you didnt happen to see them burying some Spitfires did you?

[Lyneham Lad]

The DDS card has been a great innovation. Whatever the reason, it has saved me a lot of money, from Apple employee discount on an iPhone

NEO

Having just received the card, I checked the available Apple offers. Just 2% off an iPhone - as long as you do not want the iPhone X!

-2% off iPhone

-2% off Apple Watch

Current exclusions:



Apple Watch SERIES 3 with Cellular

Apple Watch Edition

iPhone X

[Top Bunk Tester]

Apple discounts are notoriously tight, having said that it will save me £300 on the new iMac Pro.

[Danny42C]

NutLoose (#70),
..."By the way, you didnt happen to see them burying some Spitfires did you?"...
The "Great Buried Burma Spitfire Delusion" (I will not say "hoax", for the originator was plainly sincere, having "put his money where his mouth was"), cries out for psychological explanation (perhaps someone should write a Ph.D thesis on it).

If you Google > Buried Spitfires in Burma, take the website: "Spitfires in Burma: the lost Burmese Spitfires - British Airshows", there is a fair account of this strange story. It is wholly improbable (nothing is impossible) for several reasons. We were the Government of Burma till mid 1948. This was supposed to have happened in 1945. If something on this scale had taken place, there would be official record of it. And who or what could possibly benefit from such a burial and subsequent exhumation ? (the "Cui Bono ?" argument). Admittedly, there were a lot of Mk.IVs in use out there by the IAF and others of various Marks in Europe at the war's end, and we supplied many other airforces. But most of the surplus (of all Marks) was put to the axe (what a pity !)

I was in India until March 1946 (although I'd left Burma in summer 1944), and there was never a word about any such "burial" at the time they were supposed to have taken place. Nothing has been found since. We have to conclude, sadly, that it was only a pipe dream !

But what a dream ! It had everything - the "buried treasure" aspect, the (seemingly) plausible story to back it up. When it first hit the headlines in 2012, there was a "willing suspension of disbelief" all round. Even I (I'm ashamed to say), Posted a couple of times on "Aviation History and Nostalgia", with possible scenarios for a 1942 burial (after the loss of Singapore) and a 1945/6 one of Mk.XIVs. Must've been daft ! Mass hysteria, I suppose - but it was grand while it lasted !

Danny.

[Linedog]

35% off HSS hire equipment. That's going to create some work for me during the summer. :confused:

[ShotOne]

How far back are they intending to recognise past service? One of those ideas which is great until you look at the details. Past police service for instance, I can see major potential issues with allowing the kind of cosy relationship (inUS)described in the post above

[Tankertrashnav]

... but what would make you want to go back on your average RAF station?


Chap I know who formerly commanded a major operational station tried to organise a trip to the station for a coach load of former aircrew and groundcrew who had served there, to see what was currently going on. He thought it might involve a quick stop at the guardroom where he would hand a list of visitors in and maybe pick up a guide for the trip. No chance. Every member of the party would have to disembark and individually get issued with a pass, probably taking half an hour at least - this could not be done in advance. The restrictions placed on what could happen on the visit were such that in the end he thought - sod it, and scrapped the whole idea.

I know I have previously stated that I don't think my former service should entitle me to any enhanced status in the civilian world, but when a recently retired group captain gets no better treatment than a teacher bringing a bunch of schoolkids on a visit (which I did to St Mawgan when I was teaching) then I think something is wrong.

Incidentally last year I had a look at the station referred to above. I wanted to photograph their "gate guardian" which in fact wasn't clearly visible from the gate. I asked the armed guard if he would mind if I walked a few yards past him to get a decent view for the photo. I told him not to worry, I wouldn't try and get into the station. He said "I'm not worried, if you try that I'll just shoot you"

I think he was joking!

[Herod]

TTN. I had a similar experience a couple of months ago. I saw the man at the gate and pointed out that I wouldn't be more than about 50 yards from him, and in sight at all times. No luck. A couple of weeks later I went again, at a weekend. No problem. In fact, once I produced my logbook, showing I had flown the type, we got into conversation, and he accompanied me while I got what I wanted. Depends who is on duty I guess, plus the fact that during the week SHQ is pretty close, and who knows the eyes that might see?

[Wander00]

Have to say that Wyton handled the 360 Reunion in Oct 16 extremely well. Booking in and parking very easy and relaxed, all prefixed arranged by extremely efficient event organiser. Mess central heating still too hot though, after 23 years!

[Lima Juliet]

No need for a DDS card for those in the Regulars/Reserves as a MOD90 (the new F1250 for those aged RAF types) works fine in the Apple Store, Yo Sushi, Costa, etc...etc...

On the ID card subject I always though that it made sense to issue a card to everyone that left with Regular Reserve commitment under RFA80 or RFA96. The expiry date of that card would be the date that the commitment to re-called back to the Service expires. That way, the individual knows when their Regular Reserve commitment ends - broadly speaking for those that retired without a pension it is 6 years and for those that did it is age 55/60 (there are many variations inbetween). As a member of that group then individuals are still de facto Reserves and should be allowed to remain Mess Members and access the Clubs/Assocs if they wish to.

LJ

[Pontius Navigator]

After I retired but with my RAFR 1250, I was driving north with wife and mother in law and around lunch time we were nearing Leeming. Lunch I thought.

We swung in, I signed the car in at the guardroom, and thence to the Mess for a splendid lunch. Now that is what it should mean.

Or years before when main gates, even on bomber bases were not manned, former stn cdr, not an honour member, used to drop in to the Mess - one Johnnie Johnson.

If, over night, the rules changed, how many Pprunerati would use their new right? Maybe to use their previous Mess or Club for a year or so while their previous mates were still there, but how many would remain Klingons?

[Melchett01]

If, over night, the rules changed, how many Pprunerati would use their new right? Maybe to use their previous Mess or Club for a year or so while their previous mates were still there, but how many would remain Klingons?

Probably not many. Mess life is sadly dying to the extent that many serving only stay in the Mess as long as they need to to either establish themselves or get a deposit together for a house. The Mess as the heart and soul of the Officer cadre is now a historical artifice. If I were to do a full career I’d be surprised if Messes as we used to know then still existed by that point.

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett, indeed. IIRC things were well down by the 90s even with off-base officers often not drinking at dining in nights or of course going to happy hours. As off base living increased social functions declined.

[ShyTorque]

Many of the stations where I served no longer exist as such. Two of the Officers' Messes I lived in have been levelled to the ground. Not of my doing, they were fine when I left.

Having said that, my daughter has a room on the same floor and just around the corner from where my room was In 1977. I visited there earlier this year to help her carry up some heavy kit and realised they haven't changed the combination number on the lock to the back door, in forty years!

[Onceapilot]

For those getting rose tinted about access to service facilities, the info I have seen makes no reference to that. The only purpose seems to be to gain access to the so-called discount selling schemes. :rolleyes:

OAP

[Tankertrashnav]

Melchett, indeed. IIRC things were well down by the 90s even with off-base officers often not drinking at dining in nights or of course going to happy hours.

I recall around 1969 I went to a dining at Gaydon from my rented cottage in Loxley by taxi and being being able to claim for it, as dining in nights were parades. That didn't last long when the bean counters had a look at it.

I last visited an RAF mess at St Mawgan 2 or 3 years back when I gave an evening talk there. The mess is now a combined officers'/sergeants' mess and had about as much atmosphere as a Travel Lodge.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, thanks for that reminder, I was a dim memory for me, but dim isn't unusual nowadays. On one unit I lived 60 miles away. Certainly possible to get a room but who wants to overnight, hang around next day to gone lunchtime, and then drive home to an ignored wife on one of your rare weekends.

OAP, true, not suggesting that had even been picked up on, but a slight connection or contrast with US Vets, where they can fly Space Available, use the PX/BX/NX, Commisary, and facilities. Ramstein seemed well populated with retired Americans living locally. Access at Akrotiri would be a useful perk with its secure beach at Ladies Mile, but then, as a Serviceman, would you have want loads of WIWs?

[newt]

What about the promise to give us better response times with the NHS when waiting for treatment? Would a V on the driving licence be the best way? Surely a code on the licence, rather than a great big V would be acceptable? Just a thought. Now retiring to my study with a glass of wine!!!!

[Herod]

If it's a simple ID card you want, look at this.

https://www.rafa.org.uk/members/retired-service-card/

[Pontius Navigator]

Newt, priority within clinical need. Clearly you clinical need for a broken limb is less than for bleeding wound. The problem is that you have no way of knowing if the person ahead of you is better or worse than you.

Having visited A&E a number of times I found my veteran's card did seem to give me some priority.

[Pontius Navigator]

Newt, any addition to a mandatory document such as passport or driving licence removes the right of anonymity or choice and exposes the holder to unnecessary risk.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

The Armed Forces Covenant introduced by David Cameron assures veterans of priority access to a number of social services. Housing waiting lists is one example. Priority access to medical services only applies to conditions suffered as a result or consequence of military service, e.g. a broken leg or illness suffered after discharge would not qualify, whereas a knee injury suffered on a promotion course would.

Having said that my son got no help whatsoever with treatment for PTSD brought on by his service in Afghan; the therapy and the priority attached to it was gained by me paying for it privately.

NEO

[Tankertrashnav]

Supervisor to triage nurse - "Why have you put that chap with multiple stab wounds ahead of that other one with a sore finger? Don't you know the sore finger guy once did two years in the Pay Corps? Get it sorted!"

[newt]

Newt, any addition to a mandatory document such as passport or driving licence removes the right of anonymity or choice and exposes the holder to unnecessary

Not sure what threat you mean and surely it is up to the individual to subscribe or not when filling in their forms for a replacement driving licence. I have no problem with carrying ID cards!

[Pontius Navigator]

Newt, agree about subscribing, but some individuals might not realise the risks.

Threat - hiring a car at a location where members or veterans of HMF are not welcome. Need I spell it out?

[Pontius Navigator]

NEO, I have had my Veteran's card from before the unlamented one became PM. More useful was the Veteran's Oyster card introduced by Boris and of course the pension.

[newt]

Pontius, I still don’t see the problem! If you wish to travel to dangerous places then don’t sign up to the deal! Simples!

[ShotOne]

"..travel to dangerous places". Lee Rigby was murdered after being identified as a serviceman in London

And surely the security risks in allowing continued access to military bases for all ex-servicemen is glaringly obvious?

[Blacksheep]

As I still lived next door to my last station (Northolt) I remained an honourary member of the Sergeant's Mess for a couple of years, but as someone pointed out, once all your old mates have been posted, the connection fades.

Forty years on, I'm happy with just my veterans badge and membership of the local Veterans Breakfast Club (https://afvbc.co.uk/).

[Pontius Navigator]

Newt, apparently a simple solution but you assume that everyone will make an informed decision. People aren't like that and frequently ignore persec.

As Shot One says, even friendly places can be dangerous.

[Background Noise]

Updated news in the Times suggests 'Everyone leaving the armed forces will be allowed to keep their military identity card' - now why didn't I think of that :rolleyes:

Link here (behind a paywall): https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/veterans-can-use-military-id-cards-on-civvy-street-5fj30jpwf

But the gist of it is Under the plan, which came into force last week, service leavers no longer have to hand the card — known as the MoD Form 90 — back to their chain of command but instead must allow it to be cut at the corner.
Personnel who have already left can apply for an MoD 91 card. The MoD has databases listing all who served since 1975, according to the minister.

[MPN11]

So where do we apply? How much do they charge? No doubt all will be revealed in my next Pensions newsletter.

[pr00ne]

What is the point?

So, you can keep your old ID with a bit cut out of the corner, why? It won't allow you into any current UK military facility.

You are in the military or you are not. When you leave you leave, time to move on and do something else.

[MPN11]

Like try to get Military Discount when in the USA? It used to work using my RAFA Retired Member card. ;)

[Background Noise]

What is the point?

So, you can keep your old ID with a bit cut out of the corner, why?

As it says in the article - 'to help veterans to benefit from special corporate discounts and government support, a defence minister has said.'

[The Old Fat One]

What is the point?

So, you can keep your old ID with a bit cut out of the corner, why? It won't allow you into any current UK military facility.

You are in the military or you are not. When you leave you leave , time to move on and do something else.

totally this...except for posting on pprune of course ;)

[Haraka]

Years ago, travellling in the U.S.A, producton of F1250 (RAF I.D.) got me a huge reduction in Holiday Inns,Best Westerns etc. They really seemed to respect servicemen.
(or was it just my natural charm with my "cute British accent"?

[oldmansquipper]

After 50 years in Defence related 'work' , including 39 years in the RAF, I have only once recieved a message 'thanking me for my service'. Oddly, It came from the US DoD. Maybe because In 81 - I did 6 weeks of 'active service' with the USAF on detachment. I have always found that it's worth asking for military discount in the States.

I doubt that I need to say what sort of response I get to the same questions in U.K. Perhaps the 'recognition' will make things different...but I'm not holding my breath. However, my DDS card did pay for itself on its first use.

pre booked Car Hire .....in Canada!!!

[gibbo568]

NutLoose, I agree with your sentiments,
I served just over 10 years, but never in a conflict or war zone.
To myself, I'm ex-service, others sometimes call me a veteran, I reserve that title for people who have put themselves at risk and made a difference.

[Pontius Navigator]

i am very much with pr00ne on this one. I Most of the so called ‘discounts’ are just an illusion anyway - usually available through some other means.

Unless a decision is made to really offer something like radical - more like the US model, then it’s a complete and utter waste of time.

BGG

we have benefited to several hundred pounds. With Carnival cruise companies we got on board credits for spending on board. With Topps Tiles 10% saving lots and The Original Factory shop too. True there are other discounts but these were easy and worth it.

In the USA we didn't even need proof.

[Tankertrashnav]

To myself, I'm ex-service, others sometimes call me a veteran, I reserve that title for people who have put themselves at risk and made a difference.

Seconded that gibbo568. As far as I'm concerned unlike a lot of people who came before and after me I had an enjoyable 12 years during which I saw the world, got reasonably well paid, did some fun things at HM's expense, and suffered nothing worse than a bad case of self inflicted sunburn in Aden. Different story for people like my dad who didnt see his wife and kids from 1942 to 1946, or others who came home from Afghanistan or Iraq etc minus various bits of themselves. I dont want any special treatment, I dont want anyone "thanking me for my service" and I wont be applying for a "veterans card". I could also give the example of Mrs TTN who came out of the QARANC as a nursing sister and immediately took a 50% drop in pay when she got a job as a civvy nurse, and right up till she retired 10 years ago never really got a decent salary. Under this system she could qualify for discounts etc on the basis of her military service but sod all for her many years as as NHS midwife.

I want nothing to do with it.

[Lima Juliet]

Seconded that gibbo568. As far as I'm concerned unlike a lot of people who came before and after me I had an enjoyable 12 years during which I saw the world, got reasonably well paid, did some fun things at HM's expense, and suffered nothing worse than a bad case of self inflicted sunburn in Aden. Different story for people like my dad who didnt see his wife and kids from 1942 to 1946, or others who came home from Afghanistan or Iraq etc minus various bits of themselves. I dont want any special treatment, I dont want anyone "thanking me for my service" and I wont be applying for a "veterans card". I could also give the example of Mrs TTN who came out of the QARANC as a nursing sister and immediately took a 50% drop in pay when she got a job as a civvy nurse, and right up till she retired 10 years ago never really got a decent salary. Under this system she could qualify for discounts etc on the basis of her military service but sod all for her many years as as NHS midwife.

I want nothing to do with it.

TTN

That is of course entirely your choice and that is the point of this scheme - it is not compulsory. However, there are many others that do not feel that way and are grateful for the fact that this will allow anyone who signed up to potentially put their life in danger and to bear arms (with many that actually have) will be valued by the State and parts of society for this sacrifice. I am not aware of NHS staff making the same sort of commitment that any Service Personnel make - to waive significant rights and volunteer to be in an area fighting for their country where their lives will be in danger. There is a distinct difference.

in a few years time if the country, it’s various commercial outlets and the various state-run services want to recognise that sacrifice of service then that is fine by me. One of the biggest drivers of people leaving the Services is that loss of feeling valued both in and out of of the mob. This goes a small way of rectifying that rift in my hummble opinion.

I will be gracious and grateful for anything I receive in return for my 30+ years of service.

LJ

[just another jocky]

TTN

That is of course entirely your choice and that is the point of this scheme - it is not compulsory. However, there are many others that do not feel that way and are grateful for the fact that this will allow anyone who signed up to potentially put their life in danger and to bear arms (with many that actually have) will be valued by the State and parts of society for this sacrifice. I am not aware of NHS staff making the same sort of commitment that any Service Personnel make - to waive significant rights and volunteer to be in an area fighting for their country where their lives will be in danger. There is a distinct difference.

in a few years time if the country, it’s various commercial outlets and the various state-run services want to recognise that sacrifice of service then that is fine by me. One of the biggest drivers of people leaving the Services is that loss of feeling valued both in and out of of the mob. This goes a small way of rectifying that rift in my hummble opinion.

I will be gracious and grateful for anything I receive in return for my 30+ years of service.

LJ

Couldn't agree more. :ok:

[FantomZorbin]

Well said LJ.. :ok:

[oldmansquipper]

LJ sums it up rather well I think. ��

It's all about choice. Folks, make the most of the ability to make such choices while you can . I feel that with the momentum building behind the next 'man of the people' those choices will not be around for too long.

But that is just my opinion, of course, held as a member of that rapidly diminishing silent minority grouping, 'the oldies'.

Thought police please note!

[MPN11]

I can be found in LJ’s corner as well.

OK, we both have nice pensions from our Service years (29/25) but apart from that nobody really gives a s**t. Our identical ‘boiler-plate’ letters on retirement summed it up, although I did get a personal one from my AOC (she didn’t). A little extra recognition, where available, would be appreciated.

[Davita]

My most humiliating time in the RAF was the day, on retirement, when I had to return my trusted aircrew Omega watch. In those days most civilian companies would present their retiree with a watch.

[superplum]

i still have my last 1250 (nobody asked for it when i retired 13 yrs ago after 44 yrs). Which corner should I cut off?

[Torchy]

When I cleared from the RAF at HQSTC after 37 years service, the SAC lady demanded my F1250 to complete the process. I said to her that this was the first time in 37 years that I would be without my F1250 and it was a sad moment.......her reply?
”Yeah.....whatever”. !!

[Davita]

When I cleared from the RAF at HQSTC after 37 years service, the SAC lady demanded my F1250 to complete the process. I said to her that this was the first time in 37 years that I would be without my F1250 and it was a sad moment.......her reply?
”Yeah.....whatever”. !!

My feelings as well!
I was being 'walked-out' of my MQ at Brize Norton when the admin F/O said "you need to take down that TV antenna!' I said I thought the new tenant would appreciate a free antenna.. but, in her opinion....NO.
I realized then (1974) I was well out of what I had regarded as my life and career as aircrew (Lord Trenchard)......Air Ministry had been taken over by administrators and bankers.

[MPN11]

Davita, those were terrible days! Everything had to be restored to its original primitive state!!

[FantomZorbin]

those were terrible days!
MPN11 You are right there, I remember being sent to 'March In' a SNCO to a MQ at Finningley where the bedroom ceiling had collapsed onto the contents of the room … "tough" said the families office "nothing else available" despite the fact that the family was already on its way from Scotland!
Suffice to say I stood my ground rather firmly and the chap was given another MQ which had suddenly "materialised" :mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

Quite, when we marched out of our only quarter a 'friend ' of the incoming tenant marched in. As well as the usual crowd, Destroyers of Everything turned up and broke the living room window where the frame was bent and painted shut.

However more recently march out required polyfiller and a pot of magnolia, but at least a number of picture books were permitted - progress. At least a Serco quarter was better than an Annington? one with roof tiles missing. It didn't seem to occur to them that where tiles had already fallen off that more might follow. Today though the published specification can be used as a stick to get the place fixed or rent reduced.

[NutLoose]

Had a window missing in my single room for a year! only replaced when I applied for substandard accomodation backdated

[BEagle]

DoE could often be thieving gits. We had a chap posted in to Wattisham from Leuchars whose hadn't had time to cut the grass at his OMQ at Leuchars before his march out. So DoE announced that he would have to pay for it to be cut, which he did.

The F-4 aircrew world was relatively small and a few weeks later a mate from Leuchars was on the crewroom phone. During the conversation it transpired that he was the new occupant of the OMQ and was a bit miffed at the time it had taken him to cut the grass.

A few phone calls later and the Leuchars DOE head honcho was invited to a little chat with OC Admin and a cheque was on its way south shortly afterwards...

[Q-SKI]

A very cold winter in quarters at St Eval, gas boiler breaks down over the weekend. Contact SDO who authorised Duty Engineer to be called out. Wow thinks me, the system works! About 20 minutes later man in overalls pitches up, looks over boiler. “Mmmm” he ponders for a while and then admits he can’t do anything “why” I ask. “ Because I’m a carpenter!” “Outstanding “ says I “what happens now”. “I’ll call out a gas engineer” sounds reasonable I think. Another 20 minutes and second chap arrives, ponders over boiler.......”sorry, I can’t do anything” de ja vu sets in “because......?” I ask. “ it’s an electrical fault mate”. Needless to say it didn’t get fixed over the weekend. Ankle snappers issued with extra thick jumpers and thermals, memsab speechless......

[charliegolf]

A very cold winter in quarters at St Eval, gas boiler breaks down over the weekend. Needless to say it didn’t get fixed over the weekend. Ankle snappers issued with extra thick jumpers and thermals, memsab speechless......

Trust me, my SWMBO would have been anything but speechless!

CG

[NutLoose]

Sensible? Maybe, but what would make you want to go back on your average RAF sstaion? Did you really say shopping? Facilities, what facilities? You mate, are living in cuckoo land. As a regular visitor to RAF Waddington, I cant think of anything there that I would visit other than for work.

BGG

i just saw your response, it's not just that, it would allow you to visit ex mates etc after you have left as you do sort of get cut off from friends when you leave at present.

[Pontius Navigator]

i just saw your response, it's not just that, it would allow you to visit ex mates etc after you have left as you do sort of get cut off from friends when you leave at present.

Really? Stations seemed to be very much places of work with people who are likely to be your ex mates living in the local are up to 50 miles out. On base socialising tends to be entirely cliques. Would your mates invite you into the group or want to leave the group for as chat with a WIW? If you want to visit a mate on base then there is nothing stopping you being met at the MGR. As a regular visitor to quarters inside the wire your mate can get you a pass. No ID Card gets you in to a camp today unless you are active service entering on foot so a V-ID confers no right of entry.

[NutLoose]

No desire here, trust me, just putting up possibilities, have you seen my pictures of the Phantom?

These ones
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1728/42413997152_9b7817d994_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27BYPEY)
Black Mike The golden years (https://flic.kr/p/27BYPEY) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

Last time I visited an RAF base was a couple of weeeks ago and those puddles are believe it or not because the roof is in such a terrible state, not put down for the photoshoot, the state of some of the buildings is shocking, I much to prefer to remember them when they were at least maintained. I was also surprised to see a Sqn Ldr checking passes at the gate as well.