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anchorhold
12th Dec 2017, 07:42
Today in the Uk news the concept of presumed organ donation is being discussed for England

Now the odd thing is that my understanding in English law the body of a deceased person belongs to the state, not the family, so on that basis surely consent is not required anyway.

I have to say I have no problem with organ donation, but the problem is the recipients.

My solution is simple, that there is a points system for people on the waiting list. So if you are a blood donor and have consented to organ donation for say at least three years, you go to the top of the waiting list. That would change matters.

ExXB
12th Dec 2017, 08:04
Have you discussed this with your family? Do they understand your wishes? Will they implement your wishes?

I carry an organ donar card in my wallet and my smartphone. And my wife understands my wishes and has agreed to implement them.

While changing the system from opt-in to opt-out is probably a “very good thing” it would be much better if families understood what you want.

clareprop
12th Dec 2017, 08:11
And my wife understands my wishes

My ex-wife would work on her understanding of our marriage..take what you want.

ATNotts
12th Dec 2017, 08:25
Today in the Uk news the concept of presumed organ donation is being discussed for England

Now the odd thing is that my understanding in English law the body of a deceased person belongs to the state, not the family, so on that basis surely consent is not required anyway.

I have to say I have no problem with organ donation, but the problem is the recipients.

My solution is simple, that there is a points system for people on the waiting list. So if you are a blood donor and have consented to organ donation for say at least three years, you go to the top of the waiting list. That would change matters.

Can't disagree with much of that, your organs belong to you, not your relatives, when you die as you cease to exist you can logically have no say in what happens to them, and neither do your loved ones.

It is selfish to let perfectly good organs die with you, people may be helped in prolonging their lives through their transplantation.

Perhaps halfway house between presumed consent, and the current arrangement whereby whatever your expressed with, your loved ones have the final say would be to make it a hard and fast rule that if the deceased has recorded their desire for their organs to be donated, nobody can stop that process.

At present it is too easy for Jehovah's Witnesses (for example) to block donation on their own selfish religious grounds when the would be donor has already made their wishes clear; and anyway, when people are grieving after a usually unexpected death they are often not thinking logically when asked to make such a decision.

SMT Member
12th Dec 2017, 08:38
In my neck of the woods, you can register as an organ doner. You may carry a card in your wallet to that effect, and when the authorities look it up via your SS number, they'll see if you're an organ doner, and if you have any reservations on the types of organs you'll be willing to donate.

My card says, in essence, 'take what you can use'.

charliegolf
12th Dec 2017, 08:47
Have you discussed this with your family? Do they understand your wishes? Will they implement your wishes?


The first two are critical to the debate, of course, but the third should be ignored, and the idea of a family veto (which still exists in the Welsh opt-out scheme) removed.

Families cannot (except in very limited circumstances) veto the contents of a will. Why should a person's other stated choices be ignored after death?

CG

air pig
12th Dec 2017, 09:02
Today in the Uk news the concept of presumed organ donation is being discussed for England

Now the odd thing is that my understanding in English law the body of a deceased person belongs to the state, not the family, so on that basis surely consent is not required anyway.

I have to say I have no problem with organ donation, but the problem is the recipients.

My solution is simple, that there is a points system for people on the waiting list. So if you are a blood donor and have consented to organ donation for say at least three years, you go to the top of the waiting list. That would change matters.

Receiving an organ is strictly based on clinical need, there are no other considerations except of course cross matching height and weight.

strake
12th Dec 2017, 09:03
Here in France, 'opt-out', regardless of religion which plays no part in French life, took place with a Gallic shrug. You're dead and that's that. If other people can benefit, perfect. Not worth discussing or worrying about.

vapilot2004
12th Dec 2017, 09:16
Traditional Jewish law does not forbid organ donation, however the donor's heart and lungs must stop on their own accord, as this is the definition of death.

Tankertrashnav
12th Dec 2017, 10:04
Perhaps halfway house between presumed consent, and the current arrangement whereby whatever your expressed with, your loved ones have the final say would be to make it a hard and fast rule that if the deceased has recorded their desire for their organs to be donated, nobody can stop that process.

I absolutely agree. I find the whole flaw in the present system is the willingness of the medical authorities to take into account relatives' wishes. As far as I am concerned, I have made my decision, and no sobbing widow (as if!) should be allowed to alter it.

Hydromet
12th Dec 2017, 10:23
I can't understand why so many people can't discuss their wishes with family prior to the event, when it can be done dispassionately. We did so when we were all in the car and the issue came up on the radio. We all agreed that, as we'd have no further use for them, anyone who needed them was welcome to our organs, and we wanted them donated if they were of use.

charliegolf
12th Dec 2017, 10:28
At age 61 (and I find the number only increases!), I wonder if any Ppruners know if there is an age at which organs are, er, not wanted on the journey?

CG

chuks
12th Dec 2017, 10:48
I was a bit miffed to be told here in Germany that my bone marrow was not wanted on account of my age. (A local boy needed a bone marrow transplant, so that they wanted people to be screened as possible donors.)

The rest, though, I think is still suitable for further use. The brain ... never been used!

clareprop
12th Dec 2017, 10:51
I wonder if any Ppruners know if there is an age at which organs are, er, not wanted on the journey?


Best not to ask then neither of you will suffer the pain of rejection.

Bull at a Gate
12th Dec 2017, 11:23
Can’t donate my blood, or my bone marrow, or my body because I lived in the UK for more than 6 months in the time of mad cow disease. Shame as I received a lot of blood at my birth and, as far as the blood bank is concerned, I am very much in the red.

Oh, and I think you will find that in the UK, as in Australia, your mortal remains belong to your next of kin. We have the occasional case over here where the relatives fight over who gets the body. Had one last week in fact.

anchorhold
12th Dec 2017, 11:42
I think in the case of a Jehovah Witness, they would not accept a donated organ, unless it is a child, then the court can overule. In the case of jews and muslims, they have similar veiws regarding regarding the treatment of the dead, such as burial within a day, no cremation, and where possible no post mortem, infact in a few UK cities they are scanning bodies, rather than carrying out post mortems.

This is an extract from the NHS website:

In Islam there are two schools of thought with regard to organ donation. The human body, whether living or dead, enjoys a special honour and is inviolable, and fundamentally, Islamic law emphasises the preservation of human life. The general rule that ‘necessities permit the prohibited’ (al-darurat tubih al-mahzurat), has been used to support human organ donation with regard to saving or significantly enhancing a life of another provided that the benefit outweighs the personal cost that has to be borne.

I think alot of this is down to educating faith and ethnic groups.

ExXB
12th Dec 2017, 13:39
As I see it the biggest challenge is the the surviving family members are unaware of what the deceased wanted. Given the stress of the situation people err on the side of caution. If they know then it’s a simple “No, he did not want to do this, or Yes, we discussed this and he was in favour”

For those with strong religious beliefs it really behooves them to check their religions teachings on this, and to make their own decision.

I really don’t care what you decide, but you must do so. And the sooner the better.

ExXB
12th Dec 2017, 13:43
Can’t donate my blood, or my bone marrow, or my body because I lived in the UK for more than 6 months in the time of mad cow disease. Shame as I received a lot of blood at my birth and, as far as the blood bank is concerned, I am very much in the red.

Oh, and I think you will find that in the UK, as in Australia, your mortal remains belong to your next of kin. We have the occasional case over here where the relatives fight over who gets the body. Had one last week in fact.

Funny my British wife is prohibited from giving blood for exactly the same reason. This despite her rare blood type. But she can donate her marrow and her organs here.

Flash2001
12th Dec 2017, 13:48
I think I'm past that age, but could I have specified that my organs not go to a politician or a lawyer?

After an excellent landing etc...

UniFoxOs
12th Dec 2017, 15:18
I was a bit miffed to be told here in Germany that my bone marrow was not wanted on account of my age.

Likewise in UK, as I found out when an acquaintance needed bone marrow and I offerred to donate if I matched. I was 51 and too old!

MG23
12th Dec 2017, 15:38
Meanwhile, back in the real world, we're a few years away from being able to routinely grow replacement organs that will perfectly match the person who needs them, with no risk of rejection.

vapilot2004
12th Dec 2017, 19:28
Meanwhile, back in the real world, we're a few years away from being able to routinely grow replacement organs that will perfectly match the person who needs them, with no risk of rejection.

...though not so perfect a match as to replicate the defects of the failed organ, eh? ;)

Pace
12th Dec 2017, 19:36
It seems obvious to change to opt out rather than opt in to organ donation

While I am sure we are not bothered with transplant of invisible organs external transplants are becoming more common even an entire face
Dont know whether others would be so happy with such transplants ?

FakePilot
12th Dec 2017, 19:43
Careful. Posting on Pprune can classify you as brain dead, judging from most posters. "I'm still using it!" isn't a viable excuse anymore.

Opting in is how it should be. Soon all of our DNA will be indexed and if you match a rich person you're going to have an accident resulting in brain death.

Tankertrashnav
12th Dec 2017, 23:09
I think at age 70 most of my organs are way past their sell by date but as I have ticked the "anything you want" box, I'm sure they might find something that could be of use to somebody. Having carefully avoided sport for all of my adult life my knees are in much better nick than those of most of my younger chums who have rushed around wearing theirs out.

Do they do knee transplants?

anchorhold
13th Dec 2017, 08:51
I should add, I think the upper limit in the UK for going on the bone marrow register is thirty or forty. Having said that I was tested as a match for one of my brothers despite being over the age of forty, but in the end they found a better match in a 27 year old unrelated male and my brother survived.

Blacksheep
13th Dec 2017, 12:12
They can have anything they want but I don't have anything that's much use anymore. They can have my corneas as they seem to be in pretty good condition, but I'm already 70 and expect to carry on until nothing works at all.

IBMJunkman
14th Dec 2017, 04:09
My Dad donated his body to a University medical school. After a year of use he was cremated and, at my option, placed in their mausoleum. They also hold a memorial service for the deceased where the students talk about their experiences using the various deceased.

I plan to do the same thing. I had to stop my organ donor status as the school wants all the parts.

ChrisVJ
14th Dec 2017, 06:24
MrsVJ absolutely approved of donating my organs, in fact she says the sooner the better as long as my insurance is up to date.

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Dec 2017, 17:06
While changing the system from opt-in to opt-out is probably a “very good thing” ...
I still haven't seen a reply to that Panorama programme.