SANDF Chopper down

[ian16th]

By calling the a/c a SANDF one, it is not clear if it is SAAF, Army or Navy.

SANDF chopper crashes near Worcester (http://ewn.co.za/2017/12/10/sandf-chopper-crashes-near-worcester)

No mention of casualties, hope it stays that way.

[Hompy]

Which type is this?

[Self loading bear]

Which type is this?

Looks like a Puma So probably an Atlas Oryx, developped from SA 330 Puma.

SLB

[Bell_ringer]

Believed to have hit power lines, returning to base from a local airshow.

[The Claw]

SAAF Oryx "1236" from 22 Squadron.

[The Claw]

Apparently new wires put up in the area. Oryx was carrying a A109 engine in the back, very lucky crew.

[wdew]

https://youtu.be/JSRXsrEwV-c
LOW AND FAST ...NEK MINNUT ..........
LUCKY TO BE ALIVE ALL OF THEM

[bront]

Apparently new wires put up in the area. Oryx was carrying a A109 engine in the back, very lucky crew.

Nope, been there forever, 1960's or so.

[The Claw]

Nope, been there forever, 1960's or so.

Let me rephrase that for you. The wire had been placed there during the past week and no NOTAM had been issued.

[GordonR_Cape]

[snip] returning to base from a local airshow.

That was based on misinformation, the airshow was the day before the crash.

The location is a narrow mountain pass, allegedly cleared for low-level flight training.

The crashed helicopter ended up blocking both directions of the national road between Cape Town and Johannesburg.

[Bell_ringer]

The aircraft had featured in the recent airshow.
It went down in the military helicopter training area, hitting wires spanning a valley at approximately 250ft (according to some accounts).
The local utility Co isnt fond of putting markers on spans to make them more visible.
Fortunately everyone survived.

[bront]

Let me rephrase that for you. The wire had been placed there during the past week and no NOTAM had been issued.

Sorry but that is incorrect. I am very familiar with those wires and they have been there forever. Have a look at Google Earth Street View and they are clearly visible and those photos weren't taken in the last week.

That statement comes from a crew member trying to cover his a$$e.

This was simple a low level jolly that went wrong.

[The Claw]

Sorry but that is incorrect. I am very familiar with those wires and they have been there forever. Have a look at Google Earth Street View and they are clearly visible and those photos weren't taken in the last week.

That statement comes from a crew member trying to cover his a$$e.

This was simple a low level jolly that went wrong.

You have proved that at a BOI have you?

[Bell_ringer]

Bront seems to believe the only reason two aircraft are flying in low level formo in a military training area is because they were "on a jolly".
While that isn't an impossibility it seems a premature assumption.

[bront]

You have proved that at a BOI have you?



Hi Claw, I'm not sure what your problem is mate but if you care to go and compare the dash cam footage and Google Earth Street View images of the same spot you will see that these are not new wires. They have been there for years and that is a fact. They are even on the aerial chart of the area. There are numerous other wires in this valley. I know this because I have done numerous helicopter aerial film shoots of cars on this road. To have flown up the valley, as they were seen to be doing on the dash cam footage, without first recceing the route was just plain suicidal, as turned out to be the case.


These two helicopters had been conducting training at Touws River I believe and were returning to base. It is my opinion that if they had been authorized to do this low level in that valley, then it would have been carefully planned and they would have been aware of all these wires. Therefore it is my opinion that this was not authorized.


I'm really glad that no one was seriously injured but I put that down to luck more than anything else. It could very easily have ended up otherwise.

[GordonR_Cape]

Sorry but that is incorrect. I am very familiar with those wires and they have been there forever. Have a look at Google Earth Street View and they are clearly visible and those photos weren't taken in the last week.

Thanks for the heads-up. After carefully checking the photographic and video evidence, I estimate that the distance from the existing powerlines to the crash site is roughly 1.4km. Given the track that they were following, it is highly likely that they encountered those wires. This is not proof, but on balance of probability seems more plausible than the alternative unproven suggestion.

Edit: On another forum there are those insisting that there is a new wire. It is not clear who to believe, in the absence of factual evidence, such as damage to the existing powerlines.

[Bell_ringer]

Not sure what relevance old vs new wires have in a see and avoid environment.
Wirestrikes are a common risk, even known wires.
Stats show that most involved with Wirestrikes are not inexperienced, it can happen to anyone.

[GordonR_Cape]

Not sure what relevance old vs new wires have in a see and avoid environment.
Wirestrikes are a common risk, even known wires.
Stats show that most involved with Wirestrikes are not inexperienced, it can happen to anyone.

The suggestion was that if it was a new wire and been NOTAMd, the accident would not have occurred. I cannot speculate on that, but questions will certainly be asked.

Weather conditions were CAVOK, and visibility was unlimited. In a narrow and twisting valley, that may have created a false sense of security.

I appreciate your comment, but as a member of two different forums, I'm trying to reconcile two contrasting interpretations.

[Bell_ringer]

Has the local utility Co ever issued a notam?

[GordonR_Cape]

Has the local utility Co ever issued a notam?

Supposedly yes, but mostly for airports, and large infrastructure projects. In a busy mountain valley, undocumented small cables are a possibility.

[F-16GUY]

Not sure what relevance old vs new wires have in a see and avoid environment.
Wirestrikes are a common risk, even known wires.
Stats show that most involved with Wirestrikes are not inexperienced, it can happen to anyone.

In the military service I'm familiar with, you are required to do propper planning for any low level flight, to include CHUM'ing (Chart Update Manual) the route on your map, checking NOTAMS and going through the Obstruction Database.

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/tw5/ht18/assets/docs/university/low-level-nav-standardization.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/obst_data/

Sure wirestrikes are a common risk, but you can reduce the risk significantly by propper planning even if flying in see and avoid environment. Remember, its the one you dont see that kills you...

[GordonR_Cape]

On another forum there are those insisting that there is a new wire. It is not clear who to believe, in the absence of factual evidence, such as damage to the existing powerlines.

After watching the dashcam video full screen on a desktop monitor, it is obvious that at 00:30 there are broken powerlines lying in the road (this was not clear from the audio comments). The location of those broken cables matches the exact position of the long-existing cables, as shown on Google Street View. Those suggesting there are new cables, are clutching at straws IMO.

Edit: After posting, it occurred to me that the presence of an existing set of high voltage powerlines reduces the likelihood of new wires close to zero, since it would be bad practice to overlap cables, if at all.