Housing left alone for a year

[PanZa-Lead]

Maybe the back lash on yammer and the threat of trainers leaving training and Trafalgars wonderful posts helped

[Loopdeloop]

A stay of execution but it’s going to be a very stressful year.

[cxorcist]

Stressed pilots should not be in cockpits.

[Shep69]

Buying time to spin up new guys. Or at least try.

[Blue Bag Bitch]

Cathay are the Kings & Queens of dangling the carrot of false hope. RP's, bases, housing, you name it. NOTHING has changed in my time here, outside of a few meagre pay rises. Get out before you become a prisoner of seniority! You will never look back.

[Rated De]

A stay of execution but it’s going to be a very stressful year.

There is no end game to 'lower labour unit cost'. As nonsensical as infinite profits from a finite planet, a pause is just that; a pause.

Pilots the world over in recent decades were confronted with concessions each and every contract.

The predication of this model of bargaining has always been unlimited supply.

Horizon Air (US Alaskan subsidiary) drove labour unit so low they lacked sufficient pilots, losing 30% of their summer schedule.Flying these routes isn’t some ancillary or side business for Horizon. It’s the only business it is in. Canceling flights is damaging to your brand and your company’s long-term prospects—it alienates and annoys customers who have already purchased tickets. And it’s damaging to your short-term profits. You’re in the business of moving people from point A to point B, the more you can move the better. You’re already committed to pay for the overhead—the planes, insurance, the gate slots at airports, the maintenance, and the ground crews. You need volume to be as high as it can. Choosing not to run flights that have paying passengers is an enormous own goal. It’s the equivalent of Starbucks deciding not to open several hundred stores for which it is paying rent because it doesn’t have enough managers.


Pure genius is what the business schools churn out..

[Captain Dart]

Yep, all they have done is kicked the can down the road to get them through the holiday season.

They'll be back.

[Trafalgar]

You highlight a good case history in the story regarding Horizon Airlines. Their management (much like ours) didn't see that the circumstances of 'supply and demand' when it came to pilots was changing dramatically, and the same arrogant and disrespectful treatment of their pilots finally resulted in mass resignations (many jobs to go to) and no one bothering to show up for the classes they were desperately trying to fill. Result: parked aircraft, an even higher resignation rate (due the remaining pilots having to work too hard) and angry customers (and regulators). Horizon almost put themselves out of business, because their management, JUST LIKE OURS seemed to think that aircraft could operate themselves. Another group of bean counters bringing down a once viable company. Genius.

[cxorcist]

It’s really just a lack of creativity. If these airline (#fake) managers and directors spent half the time they do trying to extract productive employee concessions to improving the product and subsequent revenue flows, CX would be billions of dollars ahead, but they simply don’t know how so they just come after us instead.

PS - Horizon Air was once considered the very best US regional airline to work for and fly on. Look at them now, bottom of the barrel. Is this CX’s future too?

[Rated De]

Horizon almost put themselves out of business, because their management, JUST LIKE OURS seemed to think that aircraft could operate themselves. Another group of bean counters bringing down a once viable company. Genius.

It may be small consolation but it isn't confined to aviation.
MBA programs the world over have churned out 'business administrators'
If you have ever witnessed an MBA program it is truly something to behold:

ZERO understanding of operational context, work flows or process.

They bunker themselves down away from others and drive unit costs down.
It is probably something when the history of our age is written that is cited as a contributor to just how the west lost its way..

[Trafalgar]

It's funny (in a pathetic sort of way) how the companies that perceive themselves 'The Best' then go onto translating that into abuse of their employees. It always ends badly for the employees, and eventually, the company. Another case in point. Once in a while a manager 'gets it', such as the previously mentioned Gordon Bethune and Herb Kelleher, who focused on the well being and welfare of their employees, knowing that was the secret to a success in the 'people' business. A side note to TO, those are the examples that you should be emulating when it comes to personnel decisions. Not Attila the Hun. At the moment we are dealing with Attila. Every tyrant ends the same way, or has not AT and RH read their history? I want my 13th month Anna, so we can do this the easy way, or the hard way. Your choice....

[Rated De]

Every tyrant ends the same wayHuman history has shown one thing conclusively: man cannot govern
The Romans made their versions of the same errors, so did ancient Greece..

The is no human exceptionalism, just wash rinse and repeat.

Herb excelled at people, so did Gordon Bethune and I would add Rob Fyfe to that list.

To me Herb Kelleher is the apex of what differentiates good companies from great ones: it is leadership and humbleness.

“Power should be reserved for weightlifting and boats, and leadership really involves responsibility.”
“A company is stronger if it is bound by love rather than by fear.”

Says it all really. Abandoning their dark ways would see a whole lot of people out of work concocting secret names for 'Project this' or 'Operation that'

[Trafalgar]

It has always fascinated me how two groups of managers in the same business can evolve in such different ways. Ultimately it comes down to decency, moral values and a deeper insight into their own souls. In particular, it comes down to the ability to put others before yourself. Needless to say, our managers miss all of those points completely, as they are completely self-serving and ultimately greedy and selfish individuals. They cannot see past their own deep narcissism. Leaders like Bethune and Kelleher came from a better make-up of humanity, and realised that other people mattered as much as they did. They also had the insight to appreciate that if you treat people well, show them respect and empower them to do their jobs properly in a positive and happy work environment, you will attain all the success and reward you seek. One group attempts to do so on the backs of their employees (CX), the other does so by helping carry their employees on the journey (SW and CO). Two diametrically opposed philosophies in the same industry. Quite telling to see which one has risen to the top. Of course, a main trait of a narcissist is that they are incapable of introspection and self-critical evaluation. It's always 'someone else's ' fault. As I mentioned in another post, AT and RH could be slapped on the side of the head by Kelleher and they would still not realise the character and success of the man. That is the tragedy of CX. When I joined they were more like Southwest. At least they showed the employees they were valued and respected. Now, they treat us with contempt. Can't understand why this airline is in such chaos :hmm:

[Bangaluru]

Great thread. Best one I’ve read here for ages. I’m sure Traf’s info was right about trainers stating they would quit training etc if their housing was touched. The actual numbers of people involved in this “not a threat but a promise” would be fascinating. We may well have many of the C&Ts to thank. It’s also the only time I’ve seen CX up against an actual shortage of quality pilots. It had to happen sometime.

[Trafalgar]

Just finished a chat with a C and T colleague. To quote: " I am still resigning, as they will attack us after the holidays anyway, and I can't forgive or forget what they've just done with the 13th month". I am sure most of them are thinking the exact same way. Time to ramp up the pressure to '11'.

[Trafalgar]

And AT, I am actively canvassing all my former C and T colleagues to show some backbone and throw their full support behind the effort to reestablish a proper level of respect and contractual value. So far, NOT A SINGLE ONE I HAVE SPOKEN WITH has indicated they are planning on remaining in C and T. They are beyond fed-up. They are disgusted by the abject insult and contempt shown with the 13th month decision. You and the rest of your managers have a very small window to reverse that decision and pay the FULL 13th month (never mind the paltry $35K). Most of us can (and will) cost you that $35K in a few flights just on fuel alone (and that is now a given and non-negotiable). And your decision to 'delay' the housing change is seen for what it is, a false flag event to distract us from what you are planning regarding our pensions, medical, salaries and...eventually, housing (again). We will take action over the holidays to remind you of our worth. Never mind all the other things we have individually planned to unleash against you and this company's willful attacks on us. And please don't forget, nearly all of the middle seniority pilots in this airline are actively looking to get as far away from you as they can, and establish careers back home with a company that actually demonstrate corporate sanity. You will be the last one left here, so don't forget to turn out the lights when you leave.

[mr did]

Perhaps it is a positive thing. The “anti” personnel department toadies have finally been told to pull their heads is by the Higher Ups. A change in approach brought about by the realizations described above?

Or not.

[checklistcomplete]

Tom Owen's piece on Yammar attempting to explain his rationale for excluding Level D employees from the discretionary payment was to say the least very poor and an astonishing reflection on CX senior management and their total lack of employee awareness.

He stated ( incorrectly ) that Level D employees received annual increments and this compensated for the non payment of the 13th month. What he failed to add was that Level D office employees have no cap on this increment whereas pilots are capped after 17 years.
So any captain with 17+ years in the LHS was excluded from both the 13th month and incremental increase and so received nothing. His explanation actually contradicts itself unless he plans to pay the 35K to the 100 or so captains who fall in this group. If not then this is discrimination pure and simple and should be challenged in court.
This own goal in one single act of stupidity and greed has alienated every single captain in the company and does not bode well for 2018.
And all this from the director of people.

[Trafalgar]

I am one of those 100 or so Captains, and yes, I took great offense to the mindless drivel disseminated by Tom. Once again, this company's managers are clueless as to the facts and the staff they manage. That is why I have no respect for them. They are interlopers here for one thing and one thing only: their piece of the management pie. Regardless, the 13th month insult was an outright declaration of their contempt for me, something I will be returning to them with a 'bow' nicely tied around it. Watch this space, FAR more to come. (and like I said in an earlier post, he should have just kept his mouth shut)

[A3301FD]

And AT, I am actively canvassing all my former C and T colleagues to show some backbone and throw their full support behind the effort to reestablish a proper level of respect and contractual value. So far, NOT A SINGLE ONE I HAVE SPOKEN WITH has indicated they are planning on remaining in C and T

One or two might resign...but I am very dubious that more than that will resign.

Did C&T resign at the implementation of B scale ? No.

Resign after the ‘49ers debacle ? No.

Resign after the “forced” Special Leave Scheme” ? No.

There are a lot more examples that others can remember and quote where C&T did not step fwd and resign from C&T. One or two - yes - but never was and never will be the amount required.

Just have to wait and see. I doubt I am wrong.

[checklistcomplete]

A3301FD

But you will be the first to complain when your PC is cancelled and your recency runs out. And without the C&T guys there will be no more commands. Explain that to the hard working FO's who have been preparing so hard for months.
We are in this TOGETHER. Grow a pair and do as Traf says. Take individual control and action and stop picking on the C&T lads.

[Trafalgar]

I don't think too many of the FO's and SO's are under any doubt that there is a short term price to be paid to help improve their overall career conditions. A delayed PC or check isn't the end of the world when you are in your 20's. The C andT members must decide what they are really made of. Nowhere to hide anymore. I know most of them and they are good people. Now they have to demonstrate that to the rest of the airline. To continue as before is NOT and option. The company's 13th month insult was a contempt too far.

[Trafalgar]

Oh believe me, far more than ONE will resign. I have been communicating with many of them, and there is a consensus that what has just happened has crossed a very red line. The company deserves what is coming.

[Rated De]

Having witnessed confected outrage by pilot peers and tales of woe at bars and coffee shops around the networks, I have witnessed the same big talkers and noticed a mismatch between words and actions.

[joblow]

Trafalgar,
Great posts and I hope that you are correct , but I do not see this as being limited to the C&T dept . Sure if the trainers walked en mass things would very quickly unravel . PC 's would become invalid and the individuals concerned would be unable to fly . So it's a double edged sword .
But I think it unfair to dump it all on the trainers ,whilst all the other crew members watch safely from the sidelines wringing their hands and applauding the trainers
We went through this in 99 and very few pilots were prepared to act , most capitulated and signed the new sign or be fired contract . Had the A scale pilots all stood outside kitty city and been fired at midday the entire airline would have come to a grinding halt , but CX would still have to pay the employed B scalers . How long would the stalemate have lasted a week possibly 2 ? I would have loved to see how CX would explain to the travelling public that they had fired all their captains hence the airline was no longer operational

But here we get to the crux of the matter . It's not entirely the trainers battle whilst everyone else sits safely on the sidelines it's every pilots battle to restore their Cos and careers . So if you are not prepared to risk it all then prepare for an ever degrading career .
If enough people rally to the flag and it's made very clear that anyone who crosses the line will be dealt with , this fight can be won here and now

[cxorcist]

ENOUGH OF THIS PROPAGANDA!

Nobody is asking anybody to quit their job. The C&T's have the leverage to end this fast, without quitting their jobs. Nobody else does. The C&T's can easily, temporarily un-volunteer from the extra duties they have temporarily assumed for small, insufficient, extra pay in exchange for a whole lot of extra work and great responsibility. Doing so is not the same thing as resigning from their employment.

Exactly! I don’t understand what is so difficult to understand. Commenters like joblow must operate in an alternative reality to think that way.

TRAINING is VOLUNTARY!!! You don’t lose your job by ceasing to do it. FFS morons, you want to endure endless abuse and disrespect and train your much cheaper replacements. I’ve got no respect for those who refuse to fight back.

[joblow]

Cxorcist, usually I agree with most of your postings and thoughts , but I certainly
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .

[cxorcist]

Cxorcist, usually I agree with most of your postings and thoughts , but I certainly
don't operate in an alternative reality .
Yes the trainers should quit but it's not a case of going up to the office and saying I unvolunteer as of today . You have to give notice in writing so it wouldn't happen overnight anyway . The best threat is if all the trainers got together and submitted resignation letters from C&T in one single batch .
The point that I was trying to make in my earlier post is that you cannot expect one small group of pilots to do all the heavy lifting whilst everyone else sits on the sidelines .
This is your career as much as it is for the trainers so do your part, stand up and be counted .

Been doing that and looking to escalate, but the AOA needs to up their game. As for the trainers, I agree a coordinated resignation would be best, but failing that a bunch of angry individuals could send one hell of a message, in writing of course.

PS - It will always be dumb to train your cheaper replacements. I don’t care what the industrial climate is at the time.

[Trafalgar]

Letters hitting the offices this week. So far i've spoken personally with 12. Everyone of them has confirmed they are resigning in the coming days. They have spoken with a further significant number collectively, and the same response has been received. The carpet from the the lifts to the training office will be quite worn by the end of this week...

[Trafalgar]

I might add that the same individuals I have spoken with all seem to be quite run down, and are obviously coming down with something. A lot of sneezing and coughing during the conversations. If I was avmed, I think I would plan on being busy as well. My neighbour called in sick yesterday for 10 days. Rest and hopefully you'll feel better soon. :E

[Arfur Dent]

I hope you are right Traf. As an ex Trainer, I remember being told that we represented Management. Training is a voluntary position which is fundamental to the good governance of the Airline. If the Training Dept has no confidence in the Management that they are supposed to represent, they must resign. Management then have to find a new group of Trainers who do have confidence in them.
Good luck with that. You reap what you sow....

[A3301FD]

The C&T pilots have just received a letter stating that if they leave C&T, they will lose their training allowance/pay.

Now watch and see how many resign.

C&T have the leverage.

Capts and F/Os ARE taking care of it...GPs are very busy as of late.

[Gnadenburg]

The C&T pilots have just received a letter stating that if they leave C&T, they will lose their training allowance/pay.

Is that surprising?

[bogie30]

Yes.... Time for the C & T 's to step up.........and step down!

[shortly2]

Shades of the Oz debacle. Old guys giving selfish crap advice to young guys.

[A3301FD]

If they did resign, at least they would regain some modicum of dignity.