QF Recruiting FOs Hawaii

[jjhews]

Seen a post on linkedin from a QF recruiter about a recruitment drive taking place in Honolulu for DHC-8 rated first officers. Interesting, considering many local GAs queuing up for these spots? Albeit even footing the type-rating bill themselves if needed. Why Hawaii? #perplexed

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6343594678151188480

[pilotchute]

A Hawaii Dash operator went under a few weeks ago. QF seem to think that these guys didnt get picked up by another regional the next day.

I doubt they get anybody.

[bafanguy]

Why Hawaii? #perplexed

Island Air just kicked the bucket. At one time, they flew the DHC-8:

What?s Next For Interisland Air Service In Hawaii? (http://www.civilbeat.org/2017/12/whats-next-for-aviation-in-hawaii/)

Maybe they're trolling for Island Air refugees with DHC-8 experience ? Would this involve the 457 (?) visa to work in Australia ?

[TULSAMI]

Straight to Skywest on a Jet, command 6-12 months. Unless they've got a family connection to Aus, Qlink have got Buckley's of getting anyone to come across

[bafanguy]

Qlink have got Buckley's of getting anyone to come across

Yes, but the entertainment value is priceless. :D Interesting times.

[Flyboy1987]

Sounds like a pre Christmas junket trip?
A chance for HR to unwind and catch some rays.

[VHFRT]

FlyBoy seems to have hit it on the head... Didn't realise the useless mainline bird was also doing link recruitment!

[havick]

Sounds like a pre Christmas junket trip?
A chance for HR to unwind and catch some rays.


^^^^This!

HR team has to justify a Hawaii vacation somehow.

[hotnhigh]

From the linkedin ad....
Time to command?????.
Perhaps the HR chic could face the mainline pilot group and deliver that one.

[ViPER_81]

I don't understand how this can happen though?



"This occupation is currently NOT on the Medium and Long term Strategic Skills List (MLTSSL) or the Short-term Skilled Occupation List (STSOL), so it is not possible to apply for an Australian visa under the General Skilled Migration (GSM) Program."


Can someone explain what I am missing here?

[Flyboy1987]

I don't understand how this can happen though?



"This occupation is currently NOT on the Medium and Long term Strategic Skills List (MLTSSL) or the Short-term Skilled Occupation List (STSOL), so it is not possible to apply for an Australian visa under the General Skilled Migration (GSM) Program."


Can someone explain what I am missing here?

I was thinking the same?
I remember last year they were targeting Canada, offering to pay relocation costs etc...treating them much better than our own citizens.

[ViPER_81]

I'm still working on my CPL and requirements, but if I was CPL applying to Qantaslink and just being put on hold or not getting any response, which I have seen a lot of people post on here about, I'd be bloody fuming!

[CurtainTwitcher]

Can someone explain what I am missing here?
I suspect they will claim there are no Australian applicants who are endorsed, current and meet type hour requirements, QED, there are no suitable local candidates.

I'm still working on my CPL and requirements,
Welcome to commercial aviation in Australia. You'll need to have the hide of a rhinoceroses and the patience of a Zen master just to survive this business without going insane. Consider this your first real world aviation business lesson, there will be plenty more coming along before the end of your career...

[aussie1234]

Is it for Jetstar regional in NZ?

[Duck Pilot]

I hear there are a few Dash 8 pilots in POM looking for better career options, some don’t even need 457 visas!

[jjhews]

Is it for Jetstar regional in NZ?

Negative, her ad talks about discussing relocation to Aus with potentials, so definitely Aus.

[jjhews]

I'm still working on my CPL and requirements, but if I was CPL applying to Qantaslink and just being put on hold or not getting any response, which I have seen a lot of people post on here about, I'd be bloody fuming!

Same boat mate. Makes me pretty angry, to be honest.

[Duck Pilot]

And Qantas call themselves our National career?

Why can’t they employ the young Australian pilots ahead of expats?

This country is seriously messed up!!!

[Rated De]

A flag carrier of convenience, lots of foreign nominee companies actually own Qantas..

They will happily employ Australian pilots provided they are cheaper. Lower labour unit cost is a very deep seated obsession.

[jj232]

It’s really disgraceful the way these visa’s have been abused. It was happening in ATC till the CEO was forced to concede that if there was no ATC shortage then it shouldn’t be on the list. Instead of investing in our kids and their future they just brought in ATC’s from overseas, while at the same time downsizing the training departments.
I was once a CPL and I can tell you I would be mad as hell if I was still trying to make a career as an airline pilot. How the government can buy this is beyond me!
If this was the case then all our pilots would have to come from overseas because without companies investing in training then there will be no Aussies suitable

Contact your local members and make as much noise as you can, tell them Qantas would have very few Aussie pilots if they had to turn up to the interview already qualified on their aircraft. Don’t let it just happen, it’s for your future and your kids future!

[Compylot]

Can confirm.

A colleague of mine who is Facebook friends with a young lass in that part of the world has put it out there that she has been given an interview and is asking all sorts of questions on what to expect?

From what I can gather she started flying training in 2015, has just over 1000 hours total including some multi crew turboprop experience, has never been to Australia but is keen to broaden her horizons.

If anyone has any tips or tricks it would be much appreciated :ok:

[IsDon]

From what I can gather she started flying training in 2015, has just over 1000 hours total including some multi crew turboprop experience, has never been to Australia but is keen to broaden her horizons.

If anyone has any tips or tricks it would be much appreciated :ok:

She’s female and presumably has a pulse. She’s as good as in.

[Flyboy1987]

It will definently be hard for Aussies to compete if yanks are given any opportunity.
Their aviation careers are much different to that of a typical Australian. There’s no getting a thousand hours in a single, then 500 in a baron, then 500 in a 404.
Most I know are in a multi crew turbo prop well below 1000 hours and that’s their second sometimes third job. So what we may see is 1000 hour pilots with 200 hours rhs time getting the jobs.

Would qlink be doing this because training capacity is full is they can’t put people through type ratings?

There’s plenty of guys i’ve Spoken to in the last few months who have been on hold for over a year who have said “you know what, forget it”,
Which is sad, as I seen what they had to go through just to get an interview.

[Rated De]

How the government can buy this is beyond me!

It is actively supported by governments of all persuasions.
It helps keep the serfs from ever having bargaining power and I would strongly suggest if that you could change anything by voting they would ban that as well..

[gordonfvckingramsay]

So QF wait for an airline to go tits up and then goes in to scoop up the desperate and recently unemployed? Fvcking ambulace chasers!!

No doubt the deal is pretty crappy too.

[Flyboy1987]

So QF wait for an airline to go tits up and then goes in to scoop up the desperate and recently unemployed? Fvcking ambulace chasers!!

No doubt the deal is pretty crappy too.

And at the Aus roadshows they’re asking why people aren’t applying or staying!!! Ha

If any yanks come over, it would simply be to get 12 months experience so they can be on a jet back home.

[josephfeatherweight]

Forgive my (significant) ignorance, but don’t you guys at the big Q have some sort of union to deal with this sort of behaviour by your company?

[bafanguy]

If any yanks come over, it would simply be to get 12 months experience so they can be on a jet back home.

1987,

That's a big "If" since it's hard to imagine many Americans would take the offer. Hard to tell, I suppose, until the dust settles.

Those Island Air pilots can be on a regional jet right now in the US. They'll likely have to work someplace other than Hawaii but going to Australia doesn't seem like a practical long term career move for them.

I guess we'll see...

[jjhews]

1987,

Those Island Air pilots can be on a regional jet right now in the US. They'll likely have to work someplace other than Hawaii but going to Australia doesn't seem like a practical long term career move for them.



Desperation is a funny thing.

[4 Holer]

YYeee Haaa get some horse riding cowboys from Maui down under to shake up the girls with a bit of stick and rudder flying.... Nice.

[V-Jet]

Forgive my (significant) ignorance, but don’t you guys at the big Q have some sort of union to deal with this sort of behaviour by your company?

Qantas 'management' is not a rational beast. It's led by an egotist who has likely had a crummy school life and is now taking his petty grudges out on any group he dislikes. He does like HR (possibly the only group he does like) which in QF performs the same role the Gestapo performed for the Nazi's. He has surrounded himself with a coterie of yes men, is a one trick pony (cost cutting), an inept manager, out of his depth and out to extract as much cash for himself as he possibly can. Nor does he 'care' about the airline.

To understand QF, you have to accept that is the beast you are dealing with. The last time the unions tried to get some progress (basically trying to protect the airline from it's management) the airline was shut down by the lunatic at a cost north of half a billion dollars. That's a very expensive way to stop militant pilots wearing red ties.

Qantas is an extremely dangerous adversary which completely owns the media and most politicians. I suggested a course of action to the union when the airline was shut down, but was told it would not be palatable for most members. Although I do think it would have solved the problem in a few days, you have to appreciate what one is prepared to do, others would not.

Hope that explains the insanity to those less familiar with Kim Jong Al.

[Power]

Any of those displaced island air pilots with 1000 hours part 121 time (RPT airline ops) can literally walk into one of the many regionals recruiting in the USA and become street captains on a jet, with a large signing bonus due to their previous airline experience.
QF HR are laughable.

[Don Diego]

What Power said!!! The deal is to base any hapless ex Island Air crew in Cairns as HR feel that the climate of Cairns and the "lower" cost of living will be just too good to resist. I am not joking. The visa that they plan on applying for will exclude Capital city centres ( no YBBN,YSSY,YMML ). You folk on the hold file ought be outraged.:mad:

[VH DSJ]

If any yanks come over, it would simply be to get 12 months experience so they can be on a jet back home.

You don't even need that to get a jet job in the US right now. Many from GA are jumping straight in to the RHS of a CRJ or Ejet as soon as they have the mins for an FAA ATP at 1500 hours. Why would the furloughed Island Airways drivers want to go to Aus to fly turbo-props when they can easily get a jet job and stay home. Furthermore, they won't have to deal with CASA for the license conversion.

[Livin]

I was one of the many who waited on the dreaded hold file, then I finally grew wise and looked abroad. The FAA are really easy to deal with, the training is comprehensive and streamlined. The equipment is recent/new and the flying over in the USA is second to none, compared to what I was used to in Aus. I received an email from Qlink recently asking to update my details, however I'm glad I made the switch and replied that I had withdrawn my applications last year, and I have no intention of returning anytime soon. There are now over 50 Aussies working for the Airline I'm with.

[Rated De]

I was one of the many who waited on the dreaded hold file, then I finally grew wise and looked abroad. The FAA are really easy to deal with, the training is comprehensive and streamlined. The equipment is recent/new and the flying over in the USA is second to none, compared to what I was used to in Aus. I received an email from Qlink recently asking to update my details, however I'm glad I made the switch and replied that I had withdrawn my applications last year, and I have no intention of returning anytime soon. There are now over 50 Aussies working for the Airline I'm with. A very powerful recommendation.

They rely on unlimited supply, but globalisation, at least for pilots works both ways...

[havick]

You don't even need that to get a jet job in the US right now. Many from GA are jumping straight in to the RHS of a CRJ or Ejet as soon as they have the mins for an FAA ATP at 1500 hours. Why would the furloughed Island Airways drivers want to go to Aus to fly turbo-props when they can easily get a jet job and stay home. Furthermore, they won't have to deal with CASA for the license conversion.

And have an automatic flow to mainline AA if they choose one of their wholly owned regionals, which is a great backup if they don’t get hired off the street before their flow number comes up.

[CaptainInsaneO]

What makes everyone think that they are there looking for FO’s...?

I think the title on this thread may need to include the words, ‘Captains’ and ‘Qlink’

Now that’ll be a way to make those who plan to stay at Qlink to start looking around at other options. And there are many of them out there in this current market!

[engine out]

whilst I agree with the sentiments displayed here, I also find it funny that there is a concurrent thread discussing going to the USA on an E3 visa to fly.

[Going Nowhere]

Direct Entry line Captains can only be employed once there are no FO’s left who meet the minimum requirements to upgrade. They haven’t reached that point yet.

If/when DEC are employed, they go to the bottom of the list like everyone else and once the FO’s above them meet the requirements, they can bid for command.

[VH DSJ]

whilst I agree with the sentiments displayed here, I also find it funny that there is a concurrent thread discussing going to the USA on an E3 visa to fly.

The two issues are completely different IMO. The US regionals are employing Australians on the E3 visa because they have insufficient pilots who meet the FAA minimums to fly for a part 121operation. Qlink on the other hand have a steady supply of pilots who meet their minimum requirements, but are being bypassed for foreign pilots assumingly to save time, money and resources on training locals.

[CaptainInsaneO]

I know everyone ( other than management) would like to think what you are saying is correct...but read the EBA and company manuals.

DEC’s aren’t restricted.

[ViPER_81]

The post on linkedin has been deleted. Possibly copped a bit of flak?

[Flyboy1987]

The post on linkedin has been deleted. Possibly copped a bit of flak?

Maybe.
Could have just taken it down as it’s now been and gone?

[havick]

Chatter from the folks on the other side of the table.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/other/93170-island-air-hawaii-15.html

[Flyboy1987]

Good to see they haven’t been lead down the garden path....

If qlink are so desperate for pilots, why are people still being deferred after being unsuccessful with jetstar/qf mainline?
Mainline has been extremely competitive over the last 12 months, many good pilots have attended assesment days and not quite made the mark....and then get told they also can’t apply qlink (back up plan) for a whole year? Why not 3-6 months? I understand Rex are letting applicants resit testing.

[Rated De]

If qlink are so desperate for pilots, why are people still being deferred after being unsuccessful with jetstar/qf mainline?

Their systems are not equipped to either identify declining supply nor understand its source.

Difficult as it is, eventually the system will recognise a changed paradigm, but when their model has operated on unlimited supply for decades and acceptance that this no longer true will take time.

[Flyboy1987]

Their systems are not equipped to either identify declining supply nor understand its source.

Difficult as it is, eventually the system will recognise a changed paradigm, but when their model has operated on unlimited supply for decades and acceptance that this no longer true will take time.

It’s amazing what 12 months can do.
Last year when qlink opened recruiting it seemed like every GA I bumped into had an application in....one year later and they have to run road shows to spark interest. HR have done a fine job of pushing pilots away.

It seems they are desperately short of captains, so why create plans to hire 200 hour pilots that will be fo’s until the 2020’s?

[Capt Fathom]

It seems they are desperately short of captains, so why create plans to hire 200 hour pilots that will be fo’s until the 2020’s?
Ah...to replace the current FO’s who will be moving up to Captain! They are desperately short .. apparently!:ok:

[Anti Skid On]

Desperation is a funny thing.

You've seen the orange skinned, yellow haired bloke that's in charge? He's making many relocate

[jjhews]

You've seen the orange skinned, yellow haired bloke that's in charge? He's making many relocate


HAHA. Indeed.

[Keg]

For those who are in Australia I wouldn't stress too much about QFLink getting too many pilots from overseas. These are the retirements from the big 4 and FedEx over the next 5 years.

Delta
2018-415
2019-513
2020-602
2021-789
2022-851

United
2018- 373
2019- 403
2020- 406
2021- 491
2022- 463

FedEx
2018: 177
2019: 144
2020: 178
2021: 206
2022: 211

American Airlines
2018 261
2019 375
2020 499
2021 572
2022 641

Southwest

2018- 110
2019- 135
2020- 164
2021- 206
2022- 195

Given the flow on from all of these retirements do you reckon a Dash 8 F/O (or similar low time pilot) in the US even needs to come to Australia? So a handful (or even less) from Hawaii isn't going to even dent the demand that Aussie regionals and majors have for pilots over the next few years. Quite the opposite given the numbers from above. Aussie pilots can expect to be offered gigs in the US and if they get desperate, they'll start offering $$$ as well.

[bafanguy]

Keg,

As you know, it's going to be just as "sporty" up here from 2023 thru 2028...if not more so.

I almost feel guilty about how much I'm enjoying this. :E

[CurtainTwitcher]

I almost feel guilty about how much I'm enjoying this. :E

As a German friend once explained to me, the untranslatable schadenfreude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude) is "like watching a brand new Mercedes have a head-on collision with a brand new BMW".

[bafanguy]

As a German friend once explained to me, the untranslatable schadenfreude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude) is "like watching a brand new Mercedes have a head-on collision with a brand new BMW".


......... ;):D

Airline management has been asleep at the wheel and it's now catching up with them. All the airlines (and ALPA/APA/IBT, etc) now facing huge retirements have known from the moment a pilot was hired when he'd retire; they took no steps to head it off (increasing the age to 65 is irrelevant as 67 would be). The brewing storm was a known phenomenon.

They'll find a way to fill the seats but watching them squirm and scramble is entertaining.

[73qanda]

At the end of the day Airlines are going to have to provide either
A) A lifestyle allowing adequate rest and family time combined with a respectful company culture and adequate salary, or,
B) Massive salaries.
Keep in mind though that the impending shortage is of experience, not newly minted licences. Airlines can buy/provide licences, they will have to scrap over experience.

[CurtainTwitcher]

Keep in mind though that the impending shortage is of experience, not newly minted licences. Airlines can buy/provide licences, they will have to scrap over experience.
Indeed, Willie Walsh articulated this nuance precisely not long ago: No shortage of pilots in airline industry, IAG boss Willie Walsh says (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/no-shortage-of-pilots-in-airline-industry-iag-boss-willie-walsh-says-1.3305993)

He said: “There are lots of pilots in the market – there aren’t many who have the qualifications to fly as a captain.” As reported earlier this month in The Irish Times, Mr Walsh said Aer Lingus had recently received 3,000 applications for 100 pilot jobs.

He also had something of interest for Rated De:
Human resources
Under Mr Walsh’s leadership, IAG has increased its workforce from 57,000 employees in 2011 to 63,000 employees today but Mr Walsh said that IAG doesn’t have a human resources (HR) department.
He said: “It is something I do slightly differently – I refuse to have a HR department.”

He told the packed audience that “outsourcing your management of people to a HR department is wrong”.

He said: “We all have a responsibility to the people that we work with and for . . . It is fascinating to see how an organisation tries to create one and comes up with innovative names and as soon as spot them I get rid of them.”

[bafanguy]

Maybe this outfit picked up a few Island Air refugees ?:

Empire Airlines :: Ohana (http://www.empireairlines.com/careers/ohana/)

[A Squared]

whilst I agree with the sentiments displayed here, I also find it funny that there is a concurrent thread discussing going to the USA on an E3 visa to fly.

Yeah, that is kind of surreal.

[A Squared]

The two issues are completely different IMO. The US regionals are employing Australians on the E3 visa because they have insufficient pilots who meet the FAA minimums to fly for a part 121operation. Qlink on the other hand have a steady supply of pilots who meet their minimum requirements, but are being bypassed for foreign pilots assumingly to save time, money and resources on training locals.


Not sure I'm following your logic. How would hiring foreign pilots save time and money? At least in the US, a new hire pilot, whether he barely meets the minimum requirements, or is very experienced in the aircraft still must go through the identical training at a Part 121 Airline. Does an airline in Oz get to say, "Well you're already flown the Dash 8, we will just give you an abbreviated training program and put you right into the airplane?"

[bafanguy]

Does an airline in Oz get to say, "Well you're already flown the Dash 8, we will just give you an abbreviated training program and put you right into the airplane?"

AxA,

It's probably an expensive proposition to get the Perfumed Princes of the Kakistocracy to approve a hybrid training program which would only be used for a relative handful of pilots.

However, it could be a practical tool in some cases.

We had in-house "short courses" for people who'd been off an airplane for no more than a specified length of time (24 months ?) but were returning for some reason.

Not the same as pulling people in off the street to an operational environment they'd not been in before.

All things come down to money...

[bafanguy]

See ? It's all gonna work out ;):

“If approved, the sale will allow ‘Ohana by Hawaiian to assume oversight of operations currently provided under contract by Empire Airlines,” Da Silva said. “Those operations would include the hiring of pilots…”




Hawaiian Airlines? parent to buy bankrupt Island Air?s assets for $750,000 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/12/19/business/business-breaking/hawaiian-airlines-parent-to-buy-island-air-operating-certificate-assets-for-750000/)