Extra QRA bases

[ORAC]

The Times:

...........Mr Hoon also announced that three air stations in the UK would be be converted into “quick reaction alert” bases to intercept rogue aircraft threatening the country. The bases will be at RAF Marham, in Norfolk, RAF St Mawgan, in Cornwall, and Royal Naval Air Station Yeovilton, in Somerset.

White Paper:

5.5 Air Defence and Maritime Integrity
86. The events of 11 September have caused us to look again at some aspects of our air defence. For many years the RAF has had measures in place to detect, deter and, if necessary, destroy aircraft which threatened the UK. Like many countries, we have Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) aircraft at high readiness to undertake these tasks. We made very clear, immediately after the attacks on the US, that we would use this capability, if necessary, against rogue aircraft.

87. We will continue to refine our air defence arrangements as necessary. In particular, further enhancements to our radar systems are in hand. We are also investing in the ability of airfields across the UK (RAF Marham in Norfolk, RAF St Mawgan in Cornwall and RNAS Yeovilton in Somerset) to support QRA aircraft when needed. These are in addition to the bases already able to operate QRA aircraft and will give us greater flexibility in our air defence arrangements. We expect most of the work to be completed within the next twelve months, although work to enhance facilities at RNAS Yeovilton will take longer. There will be occasional increases in fast jet flights into and out of these bases.


Be nice if we had the squadrons to man them.................

SDR - new Chapter (http://www.mod.uk/issues/sdr/newchapter.htm)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Lets see, what aircraft do we have at Yeovilton? Nothing that the Government considers important.

Incidently there was a lost comms incident with an airliner over southern England a few months ago. For a starter question what type of aircraft did the intercept and/or inspection, and what base did it come from?

[Talking Radalt]

Can I have a point if I said it was probably wholly inappropriate, civilian owned and flown under dubious Govt contract and was more than likely based somewhere like the Channel Islands?
:rolleyes:

[Grimweasel]

Well I thought that St Mawgan was one of the three bases under review?
I take it from this, that its survival has allready been assured?
So LYN or BZN to close soon then..........?

[Radar Monkey]

There are other options I think MOD should consider, like using the vast experience from Europe in manning NATO Q. Maybe we could have a QRA exchange along the lines of a sqn exchange. I'm sure most QRA crews would have no problem with QRA from Northern France Portugal or Spain, accompanied obviously. Or worldwide Q even; 4 weeks QRA in the Caribbean would be lovely methinks.

[Scud-U-Like]

I too was surprised by the RAF St.Mawgan QRA announcement. As Grimweasel suggests, this does seem to presage the outcome of the Brize/Lyneham/St.Mawgan closure lottery (sorry, review).

[solotk]

Ahhhhhh Radar, if only.....

last time I looked, the JDF didn't have any fixed wing fast assets, but think of the pose value of having your F3 on the ramp at Montego Bay or Kingston. Not to mention the essential tan.

Tony

*Exercise Red Stripe, fact or fiction, you decide*

[Chris Kebab]

Need to re-open Thorney Island really don't we?

[SPIT]

Is there ANY air defence North of Watford or shall it just be left out (again)???:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Yes it is true that people DO live North of the Watford Gap.:D :D

[canberra]

having done 11 years at leuchars i know a bit about q. i cant quite see what buff is on about. all i can see from what hes written in the statement is that these 3 bases are going to get q sheds. after what happened when q was launched at coningsby a few years ago i wonder how none raf ad bases are going to adjust? for those of you who dont know, about 4 years ago coningsby started to do q again, one day q was kept at the hold for 17 minutes whike bbmf did a practice display! and on the subject of the brize/lyneham/mawgan review i thought mod had said it had been completed and there was no change?

[ORAC]

The assumption in the above is that the aircraft can be deployed from a MOB as and when necessary. Don't quite see where you get Int detailed enough to do that, but take it as a given. Aircraft and aircrew are, therefore, provided by the existing squadrons at no cost. Ground crew is slightly more problematical due to transit time, spares availability, test equipment etc. Might have to be done with a flyaway pack and AT or by having a pre-deployed pack and very fast MT!

At the bases there will be one-off costs like a Q shed, if necessary, klaxons, landlines etc. But these are minor.

The expensive item may turn out to be the manpower bill. If the bases have to be able to run 24 hour QRA, they will have to have an establishment able to man ATC and the fire section 24 hours a day on demand (Ops can be on call). I am sure HQs and the treasury will be looking to see if this can be done for short periods within existing establishments by going to different shift patterns, having reinforcement or reserve personnel etc; but at the end of the day they may have to increase the unit establishments.

The main problems, as you allude to, will be how they will be controlled. The ADGE sites haven't all the comms to all the other airspace users and won't be qualified/current in the airspace etc.

A good time to raise the idea of cross-training again and have a couple of FC do the area course and be posted to LATCC. They can do the ATC job day to day and be available for the QRA. (By precedent FCs do the course before going on the French exchange tour).

As for "the North", Spit, it already has bases, courtesy of all those years escorting those Bears around. :D

[Chris Kebab]

Probably a better choice than Yeovilton would probably have been Boscombe Down. Quiet spot, geographically good, nice big r/w, choice of HAS's, RAF Mess, etc.

But then again, with the MOD having shot itself in both feet over the place and dumping most of the site in QinetiQ (who themselves have been pretty well shafted by the MOD from what I have seen), the place is now completely unavailable even at a price.

I am not too sure what the locals at Yeovilton are going to say when they hear the F-3s burners for the first time!

[timex]

Stovies all day everyday! F3's are just more noise.....and at least they don't hover for 5 min periods (it feels longer.) :p

[the funky munky]

Was gonna post a topic titled RAF Yeovilton - Discuss but thought that WEBF's blood PX would go through the roof!
Great that these bases will remain open for the next few years, only question is why F3s for QRA. Can't we keep a few grey funnel line jets at RN bases for this purpose. Or is that going against BuffHoons and Blurs policy to get rid of the FAA?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Funky Munky

The press often "RAF Yeovilton". Likewise the local press still refer to RAF Chivenor, even though it is a Royal Marine base now.

I agree that this is yet ANOTHER reason to keep the Sea Harrier in service.

Incidently, have look at what the Select Commitee and Commons said on the issue of the Sea Jet....

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmdfence/779/77908.htm

Sorry for the slight tangent. Does the RAF have enough fighter squadrons to do all this QRA, or would a help handing from the RN SHAR force be welcome?

[PICKS135]

If the Q base has to have 24 hour fire cover, whats going to happen to LUK next year when they take away the MEDA status and according to local press get rid of a lot of the the fireys, as they wont be needed to work all night ?
The self same fireys who only found out they were going to get the push, when local MP got a letter from MOD and contacted there union. But hey thats another story.

[fradu]

Living close to RNAS Yeovilton for almost 15 years the SHARs and Hunters etc didn't bother me, it was the Lynx' when they came uo from Portland that were annoying at times :)

F3s at VL, yes please. Need some fixed wing aircraft when the SHARs leave, and save the Navy from the fact that the most up-to-date airworthy fixed wing fighter on the base would be the RNHF Sea Hawk.

Mark

[KPax]

I thought that Marham was only being used as Coningsby is closing in the near future for major works. If only we still had Wattisham.

[BLW Skylark 4]

What about Northolt?

On the assumption (perhaps somewhat arrogantly) that god forbid any such aircraft is 'hijacked' it would be targeted towards London, wouldnt it be sensible to have some assets that little bit closer?

I guess runway length might be an issue for regular F3 use, but surely a GR7 or two would be a bit useful if push came to shove. I know the Harrier boys are more used to dropping things, but the AIM 9 and cannon would surely have the desired effect if needed?

Also, it would make my time spent staionary on the A40 that much more interesting and enjoyable!

'BLW'

[Jackonicko]

Cannon? On a GR7? Come come, dear boy......

You'd need a Jag for that!

[Flap62]

If the Navy struggle to man a sqn in day to day training, how are they going to cover the huge manpower drain that Q involves?

[getupah]

I'm not sure SHAR is suitable for that. How fast is it?
How fast does a 737 go at altitude?

I bet there's not much difference and CAP sorties are not practical in this situation.

Would help keep Yeovilton a flying base politically either way.

Just a thought!

[LXGB]

KPax,
I'm sure the Army would be more than happy to put up a couple of fast pointy types at Wattisham :)
Still got 2xHAS Sites and over 7000FT of runway.
That'd stir things up a bit :rolleyes:

Best Regards,
LXGB

[Chris Kebab]

Ideal really but I presume the cables were dug up.

Talking of cables, I gather they are looking at putting some back into Stornoway - which could be useful in that neck of the woods.

[NoseGunner]

Personally, I'm happy to push any aircraft as being a capable AD fighter (even the Harrier!) if it gets me out of huge amounts of Q!

As well as the speed issue mentioned earlier, what if it was cloudy??!!?? GR7 would be ****** all use.

A slow, VMC only aircraft isn't ideal for many things, least of all AD.

[Chris Kebab]

................in fact is a Harrier useful for anything....?

viff viff, nozzley nozzley, where did I put my bona turning trousers....!

[LXGB]

Hi C K,
True, no RHAG at WTM anymore. Stick some PAAGs in, beef up the BCU and Bob's your uncle. The runway could certainly do with a lick of paint though.

LXGB

[PICKS135]

Wouldnt the 'Wee Free People' object to Stornoway being used on a Sunday. They object to Loganaire wanting to fly in on a Sunday.

"The lord says the sabbath is a day of rest, so tell the hi-jacker to b***er of till Monday" :D

[SPIT]

As far as I can see (which aint far) the MOD will prob suggest WOODVALE:rolleyes: :D