An open letter to senior management

[Rated De]

An open letter to Senior Management,


As labour constitutes 30% of your operating costs, it is appropriate you focus attention reducing and containing it. Airlines maintain teams of people and highly paid consultants who spend every waking hour in the pursuit of lower labour unit cost. Achieved through an oversupply of pilots you created: IR utopia. Upon which was built an industry designed to generate conflict, tension and anxiety in employees whilst claiming publicly you wanted productivity!



You aimed for fear, uncertainty and doubt. You got it. For decades the model held sway. At its apex sat Michael O’Leary and Ryan air a model replicated the world over. An oversupply of pilots eagerly looking skyward hooked on aviation. This was something to be abused and laughed at, but pilots were not in on the joke.
In Australia the IR sorcerers built an empire on those jokes and along the way a personal fortune. They devised ways to put pilot against pilot, undercut and divide. It worked brilliantly in Australia as it did in Europe. US Airlines since 1978 used Chapter 11 to restructure terms and conditions, Australian practitioners rolled out the playbook embracing the dark art of IR. Australia had no such corporate provisions, but nonetheless the international division that was somehow in ‘terminal decline’ in 2011, has just recorded another profit of near record magnitude. Amazing when it is considered that it was achieved on the same contracts with the same fleet that only four years ago that had management asking for AUD$3 billion in taxpayer handouts!



A question lingers of that year unanswered: Why was Lucinda Holdforth gagged by a court from releasing her memories of the supposed ‘spontaneous decision’ made with no help from IR lawyers on a Saturday morning in October 2011? Grounding the entire international fleet (and the domestic workforce not taking industrial action-yet excluding Jetconnect and Jetstar) you executed. You broke the implicit agreement between employees and their employer: Trust is sacred, you don’t count it, you can’t measure it but you sure know when it is absent. Your workforce loves the company, but you confuse it with admiration for your management model, many people delude themselves and Net Promoter Scores tell you nothing. To the teams of accountants if you cant assign a cost or value it means nothing.
So you have divided pilots, you have ‘competitive tension’ across the group. You have contractors flying company tails, you dangle new jets to another subsidiary and you wish to bring in another group of pilots to fly Australian registered aircraft on lesser conditions. You haven’t learned. Perhaps you ought to read Winnie the Pooh: Going to the hunny (sic) pot one too many times.


You have declining supply driven by demographics; you have the poster boy O’Leary on bended knee to his pilots. Kudos to you convincing a generation of prospective pilots that the lesser terms and conditions are all there is. They respond as rational people do; they never enter the industry.
So as you have started fights with your contractors, it is hurting your customers again. A cycle of wash, rinse and repeat, is that all you got? It worked for decades, but lack of trust lingers. You have done it to Qantas pilots; you did it to Jetconnect pilots, to Qantas link pilots and even the contractors at Cobham. Pilots learned from 2011.They do not trust you. Your model is breaking down. As Christmas approaches, there is a question you ought to ask yourself: Have you got a pilot’s licence?

[Lead Balloon]

Insert eating popcorn GIF.

Estimated time of deletion of thread: Posting time plus 30 minutes.

[Icarus2001]

They keep going back to the hunny pot (sic) as it keeps on giving but one day soon it may not. I believe they have planned for this day.

I agree with your assessment and Mr O has shown us where the bottom is, no need to race there. He found it and now has to work up from there.

Lead B : wrong again

[Lead Balloon]

Very happy to be wrong on this one!

Popcorn supply at the ready. :ok:

[Chocks Away]

Bravo! :D
Decades of this (mis)management model have made Australia a basket case... and they're still "kicking the stones around" wondering what went wrong & what to do next. Hold on lets get some more Consultants to find out :rolleyes:

Well a few global Airlines HAVE made changes: HAVE listened to the pilots and labour supply companies and they are the ones getting the needed pilots!

Accountability for the Australian shermozzle, myopic behaviour and total disinterest in watching & learning from the global ebb & flow of pilot employment, goes directly to those tossers granting themselves massive bonuses and shares. :hmm:

[tail wheel]

Estimated time of deletion of thread: Posting time plus 30 minutes.

Not necessarily. Provided there is mature debate some benefit may come from this thread.

[Oriana]

Tell ya story walkin.

there's some new airframes on the way, so all is forgotten.

The big problem is not airline management - it's Australian pilots.:hmm:

[aaandrogerthat]

rated de, this looks like a brilliant opportunity for you to start up your own airline from scratch and show them how it really should be done. You could revolutionize the industry! Perhaps let your pilots make every business and operational decision, pay way above any current rates, latest and greatest aircraft, crews decide own roster, employ on time in the industry rather than merit, your wage will not exceed that of any other worker, all profits pumped back to staff etc etc. It simply has to work!! It's exciting just thinking about the possibilities and I just know you will show those incompetents how to do it!! :ok:

[Rated De]

Thanks Tailwheel, mature debate always welcome...

Au contraire,

You could revolutionize(sic) the industry!
No need, 15 March 1967 took care of that. Well worth some study: South West Airlines. Great book too highlighting the difference between labour unit cost, partial factor productivity and aggregate outcomes.Perhaps let your pilots make every business and operational decision,Paul McGuiness was indeed a pilot and Hudson Fysh his observer gunner. Together both of them built a business making all the decisions both operational and business.


Further, CAR 224 actually states explicitly that pilots make every operational decision.

CAR 224: Pilot in command
(2) A pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for: (a) the start, continuation, diversion and end of a flight by the aircraft; and
(b) the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time; and
(c) the safety of persons and cargo carried on the aircraft; and
(d) the conduct and safety of members of the crew on the aircraft.

Strict liability as expressed in section 6.1 of the Criminal Code details who exactly is responsible for all operational decisions. Reviewing that statute will show you the liability and responsibility rests on one set of shoulder and in his absence the deputy commander.


Of course no person can do everything; aviation is the ultimate team sport. It isn't just pilots that make it work, it is flight planners, dispatchers, caterers, baggage handlers, refuellers, cleaners (sure you can think of some more!) Each make a contribution and the whole can't exist without their input. An amazing study of complex systems. Southwest Airlines systems work far better across the spectrum of measures than any other airline, ever wonder why? Thanks for your post otherwise.

[Freehills]

South West paid less than the full service airlines for a very long time - at least 40 years or so. Wasn't until the big US airlines went bankrupt and slashed pilots' packages that SW pay equalled or exceeded the majors.

[KRUSTY 34]

About a year or so ago a defining moment was reached at a certain regional airline. The ratio of pilots who were former cadets and those from the more traditional stream, had finally reached parity. The Union and the company were locked in a particularly vigourous industrial campaign, and the schedule was beginning to suffer.

Enter a senior manager whose responsibilities included the company cadet program. This bloke had it all worked out. He gleefully told a room full of graduates that the day had finally come where industrial disssent would be wiped away once and for all. In front of puzzled and then bemused faces he informed the group, that as of this graduation, there would no longer be a voting down of any EBA proposal put forward by the company. The logic being that as there were now more cadets in the pilot group than non cadets, the company can expect their boys and girls to tow the company line.

After nearly 12 months of being reminded they had no rights, were lucky to be here, have been “kissed on the d!ck”, and generally driven by fear, this particular course followed in exactly the same steps as their predecessors and those who came after. They immediately signed up to the Union!

[Slippery_Pete]

Krusty... a huge debt of gratitude is owed to a certain ex musician, without whom it may have all been destroyed.

They’re “expecting parity by Christmas”. I want to know what’s in their egg nog. Bucket loads of crew are on hold, maybe they don’t realise. Once the big airlines clear their overfilled training backlog, it’s going to be carnage again.

[Rated De]

South West paid less than the full service airlines for a very long time Quite right 'Freehills' (what an interesting handle, a grubby place, even more so merged with Herbert -not of South West fame)

There was a discrepancy in labour unit cost and US carriers. that is a little of a straw-man argument; I never mentioned rates of pay, I spoke of terms and conditions: Rates of pay are one element in labour unit cost.
As you are probably aware, the labour unit cost at Ryan Air the apex of adversarial labour relations is lower than South West (in nominal terms) yet consistently the labour productivity at South West Airlines is much higher. What you pay people is would seem less important than how you treat them.

“A company is stronger if it is bound by love rather than by fear.” – Herb Kelleher

[CurtainTwitcher]

Herb Kelleher: The Thought Leader Interview (https://www.strategy-business.com/article/04212?gko=8cb4f) Summer 2004 / Issue 35

Now, how do you get low costs? Through a lot of things, including the inspiration that you give your people, their productivity, the fact that they feel that they’re doing something that is really significant and that they enjoy. If you take all of Southwest’s compensation together — wage rates, profit sharing, the full 401(k) match, the stock options that our people have — Southwest employees are the most highly compensated people in the airline industry. One of our pilots just retired with $8 million in his profit-sharing account. Now, you have to do well to produce that.

[KRUSTY 34]

SP: Management have been spinning the parity (full crew compliment) by Christmas BS for years! It’s so tired a line that upon hearing it, normal well adjusted people just roll their eyes and move on.

[Duck Pilot]

Anyone want to invest in a few buses to compete with the airlines? Good business opportunity currently exists, not too hard to workout where the profitable routes might be, particularly with airport pickups...........

[CurtainTwitcher]

Duck, that was Ryanair's pitch to airports, we might pay a piddling amount for pax charges but you get to stick them in the neck for parking, taxi's, buses, food & duty free. All documented by Siobhan Creaton in Ryanair: How a Small Irish Airline Conquered Europe (https://www.amazon.com/Ryanair-Small-Airline-Conquered-Europe-ebook/dp/B00IXJ82U0), only $2.99 for the Kindle version.

[Rated De]

Christmas Crisis: 15,000 American Air Flights Without Pilots Over Holidays Due To "Glitch" | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-29/christmas-crisis-15000-american-air-flights-without-pilots-over-holidays-due-glitch)

Australian exceptionalism will ensure Straya stays different!

If I were QF IR/HR I would have a stalking horse readied, you know JC to fly in Australia or a subsidiary to fly jets...And by gosh, quick open the next contract negotiation :E

Oh wait...they already did

[Keg]

When Jetconnect is so desperate for pilots that they're asking some mainline pilots to provide referrals for people willing to work for Jetconnect and people with less than 2 years experience an undertaking command upgrade sims whilst also actively seeking employment elsewhere I'm not sure Jetconnect is the stalking horse that it appears. More like a stalking donkey. (The structure, not the individual pilots. Good luck to the F/O seeking both the quick command and the job elsewhere).

[Sykes]

eukeybound

Odd that you accuse Rated De of loving the sound of his/her voice. The same could be said of you in the Qantaslink/Qantas recruitment threads.

IMHO, Rated De is a Pruner who's been around for a while and has created a new ID to write specifically about one theme. While he/she can go on a little, the posts are well written, and well referenced. They also APPEAR to be written by someone with some inside knowledge.

You, on the other hand, appear to be someone who's just left GA for his dream job at Qantaslink. Some of your posts could be considered
"optimistic" at best and "breathtakingly naïve" at worst. The irony is, is that you've just joined (Qantaslink) one of the prime users of Adversarial IR in Australian aviation.

Judging by some of your posts, you will be in for a rude shock.


I know who's comments I'd rather read. (Hint: the other guys).

[Buster Hyman]

For Lead Balloon...

https://media.giphy.com/media/LvaswPm6IHn44/giphy.gif

[eukeybound]

Hi Sykes,
Not unfair points and I was probably a bit crass in my original response so I have removed it.
E

[Lead Balloon]

Thanks Buster!

[knobbycobby]

Great Posts Rated D.

Agree with Keg also.
There is a massive global pilot shortage. It's all due to a mass of retirements.
Qantas and global airlines that have created a multitude of subsidiaries have created tranches of lower paid jobs and job insecurity.
Pilots are by nature conservative so scare tactics work on them brilliantly. Standard line of sign xxx at airline xxx or company xxx will take Your flying.

But here is the rub. You can get paid far more and have a far more stable home life by going into other careers now. Airline work has got harder, less flexible and more intense. Other jobs have gone the opposite way and younger people don't see flying as an attractive option.

The Networks, Jetconnects, QLinks, etc etc just don't provide the incentives to get people to spent $200,000 plus on their training. This was not the case when the baby boomers joined. Pilots then were well paid in comparison, rostering was decent, and it was a respected position. You could choose between Qantas,Ansett or Australian/TAA. But this massive surge of baby boomers will all hit retirement age very shortly.

As Keg alluded to Jetconnect/Qlink can't crew flights. The operation is in complete chaos. You can only treat people like s$&@ for so long. Loyalty is gone.
The Trojan horse is weakening.
But Threatening a pilot with fear has worked, so Qantas will wheel it out regardless as it's always worked in the past. SH EA due?
IMHO they risk so much if they pull that tactic. The SH pilots are already worked to the bone. CEO is paid $25 million plus, Andrew David 8.18 million. Turnaround transformation. Game changing. Exec pay up by a multiple of 25 times.
But please mr/mrs SH pilot. Work 92 hours a month over Christmas for us to fill in for cancelled flying whilst we simultaneously threaten you at EA time with Jetconnect.
It's like the boy who cried wolf. Globally companies have tried this over and over as pay and conditions have reduced.
But trust has reduced too, along with goodwill. Like fuel it can run out with dire consequences.

Eventually crews will have enough and not care about "helping out" whilst simultaneously being threatened and losing precious time from their loved ones.
To pull that with Christmas and holidays approaching reminds me of the top gun quote, "Gutsiest move I ever saw MAV".

[FYSTI]

Great Posts Rated D.

Agree with Keg also.
There is a massive global pilot shortage. It's all due to a mass of retirements.
Qantas and global airlines that have created a multitude of subsidiaries have created tranches of lower paid jobs and job insecurity.
Pilots are by nature conservative so scare tactics work on them brilliantly. Standard line of sign xxx at airline xxx or company xxx will take Your flying.

But here is the rub. You can get paid far more and have a far more stable home life by going into other careers now. Airline work has got harder, less flexible and more intense. Other jobs have gone the opposite way and younger people don't see flying as an attractive option.

The Networks, Jetconnects, QLinks, etc etc just don't provide the incentives to get people to spent $200,000 plus on their training. This was not the case when the baby boomers joined. Pilots then were well paid in comparison, rostering was decent, and it was a respected position. You could choose between Qantas,Ansett or Australian/TAA. But this massive surge of baby boomers will all hit retirement age very shortly.

As Keg alluded to Jetconnect/Qlink can't crew flights. The operation is in complete chaos. You can only treat people like s$&@ for so long. Loyalty is gone.
The Trojan horse is weakening.
But Threatening a pilot with fear has worked, so Qantas will wheel it out regardless as it's always worked in the past. SH EA due?
IMHO they risk so much if they pull that tactic. The SH pilots are already worked to the bone. CEO is paid $25 million plus, Andrew David 8.18 million. Turnaround transformation. Game changing. Exec pay up by a multiple of 25 times.
But please mr/mrs SH pilot. Work 92 hours a month over Christmas for us to fill in for cancelled flying whilst we simultaneously threaten you at EA time with Jetconnect.
It's like the boy who cried wolf. Globally companies have tried this over and over as pay and conditions have reduced.
But trust has reduced too, along with goodwill. Like fuel it can run out with dire consequences.

Eventually crews will have enough and not care about "helping out" whilst simultaneously being threatened and losing precious time from their loved ones.
To pull that with Christmas and holidays approaching reminds me of the top gun quote, "Gutsiest move I ever saw MAV".

Don't worry knobby, the SH "system" is sooo far beyond "helping out", that ship sailed quite some time ago.

Fatigue is at epidemic levels, and every pilot understands that there is no relief in sight. I can only speak for SH, but we are witnessing an uncontained failure of the system. Pilots are pulling the pin mid duty due fatigue (with complete justification), reserve callouts are being crewed, but then as a consequence the following duties are then in the fatigue zone and going uncrewed, with up to 100 cancellations in a week for SH just due to lack of crew.

By their own documentation they run a "Reactive Fatigue Management system" (stop and think about what those words actually mean) FRMS. That is it, that IS the fatigue plan. Rostering under the 48 exemption only considering the numerical values. The entire clause that says "the Operator Shall not roster fatiguing duties" has been excised from the system. Every possible work day is rostered, you are required actively opt out. Silence is compliance.

Rosters are coming out at 77+ hours stick per bid period 28 days consisting of mixing up 0500 starts 4 leg/ 11:00+ planned days with 2, 3 or 4 aircraft, followed the next day by a DPS finishing at 0030 (0130 by the time you actually make it to bed). Then a BOC sector home, to back up the next day for 4 legs finishing at 2130+. Two "days off" (56 hours) and an 0500 start 11:00+ for 4 legs, wash, lather rinse and repeat. Try doing that for a couple of months. That is before we even start to talk about reserve callouts.

Training Captains are starting to hit annual 950 stick limits and can't be paired with trainee's.

Management are the deer in the headlights now, paralysed. They simply cannot comprehend a genuine solution. The multiple base strategy (hello Ansett anyone?) may have saved a few bucks on hotels over the years, but as a consequence, they now have a complete rostering disaster on their hands. The only possible solution left is multi-day trips with 3 legs per day for every base wherever they can.

Hotel costs will go through the roof, but the optimisation for for minimising that cost only worked in one scenario (short term) and has led to a brittleness of the system once flying ramped up. They have all their crew in all the wrong spots.

There is nobody else to blame, and they know it. So no, SH won't be helping out this Christmas, or next or the one after that. At the rate things are going, there will be severe fatigue consequences for the system as it starts to actually cause long term health issues. Self confessed "1000 hour men" have discovered their constitutions and health aren't quite as resilient as they thought after a couple of years.

Every genuine attempt to substantially improve rostering over the years has been stonewalled. They could crew the system with less fatigue, but the multiple base strategy mean is will cost big money to do it. This is a consequence of business decisions that have been made in the past, SH as a cash cow to be milked rapaciously. Crisis is an often an overused cliche, but that label can now be firmly affixed to SH.

The Qantas Source (http://theqantassource.com) documents the daily cancellations.

[Rated De]

There is a massive global pilot shortage. It's all due to a mass of retirements. Demographics are the surest financial bet there is; problem is that it takes decades to play out.

Adversarial IR modeled their practices on unlimited supply. Supply is now limited. I know numerous Ryan air pilots who have had enough, no amount of threats will work. Having pulled the curtain back they exposed the model for what it is; adversarial but ultimately flawed: The emperor has no clothes.


Pilots were grounded, locked out and threatened. Every statement Mr Joyce made to his pilots was derogatory, just like O'Leary. They had their fun at your expense, the ignored the human cost and now Mr Joyce is the most heavily remunerated CEO in Australia!

The model is fundamentally flawed: Supply is limited and they have accelerated their own demise by driving conditions to a point where the return on investment just does not exist. They won for a few decades.

I would be watching your myopic union, giving handshake concessions, 'in the spirit of co-operation' As I am informed privately by whom I assume are Qantas pilots the company already are in breach on 'available days' use and not actually paying back the days as per your short haul agreement?

Thus the issue is not the crewing of Jetconnect, that is naturally in crisis, what ought concern pilots is simply the precedent. If your union gives ground and offers a concession the next down turn sees more threats.

The model is a hammer and every problem must be a nail..

[Rated De]

Every genuine attempt to substantially improve rostering over the years has been stonewalled. They could crew the system with less fatigue,And so very conveniently CASA obliged citing regulatory capture, unions acquiesced so all the pre text for a CAO re write halted. In Europe most operators have far more robust fatigue and risk management processes, Australia remains the white trash of Asia. 'Early' starts and 'long day' changes kicked down the road and CAO 48.1 consigned to another review. 'Commercial' implications on airlines were 'excessive' and therefore could not be afforded. Rest periods of minimum duration actually in a hotel and not still on board an aircraft or waiting for transport, too costly for a company to absorb.

They made the limits targets and were rewarded for it. Mean reversion comes to mind
But please mr/mrs SH pilot. Work 92 hours a month over Christmas for us to fill in for cancelled flying whilst we simultaneously threaten you at EA time with Jetconnect.
It's like the boy who cried wolf. Globally companies have tried this over and over as pay and conditions have reduced.
But trust has reduced too, along with goodwill. Like fuel it can run out with dire consequences.As alluded to elsewhere I asked Did Winne the Poo go the the hunny(sic) pot one too many times...?


Kudos to the Cobham contract pilots for their industrial campaign, withdrawing co-operation has big impact when the whole thing relies on good will. Management spent that, laughing all the way to their personal bank...Helping out, is like drugs; just say NO!

[Bend alot]

If AJ reads the Fragrant Harbour section. Would he not think there are a few more cuts to be made?

[Rated De]

If AJ reads the Fragrant Harbour section. Would he not think there are a few more cuts to be made? Of course he will be following and giving advice to CX, he got lucky with fuel hedging, they didn't. They all follow the same IR template: adversarial. It has succeeded for decades driving terms and conditions south and dividing pilot groups.

At CEO level 'interactions' (at Qantas and CX) would have about six direct reports, and the BS is filtered and crafted upwards, massaging the message and CYA. This is a fundamental difference between hierarchy management and flatter more egalitarian models that tend to empower line operations decision making rather than close them down. Rupert Hogg and Alan Joyce are not the sort of 'leaders' to get out among the troops and solicit opinion. They run their 'battle' from the bunker....They probably need a security detail to interact with anyone. So chances are they both are planning their Christmas lunch.

Pilots assumed the war was over, sadly it never is. Pursuit of lower unit cost of labour has no end date and until this commercially impact either carrier the demographic surge will drive supply issues.
Eventually only the airlines who decide that the model is flawed and failed and thus decide people deserve respect will survive. Whether QF or CX continue down their well established adversarial path is unknown, but as yet they simply refuse to hear the message, but one wonder whether they have the processes in place to even know where to listen...

[gordonfvckingramsay]

I think its safe to say that QF etc. will never concede that they have fvcked up until a return to a more respectful IR model is both profitable and can be disguised as their idea. They have vowed to never empower staff by conceding that the model is ineffective.

[Rated De]

They have vowed to never empower staff by conceding that the model is ineffective.

O'Leary did it with Ryan Air; backed off a bit then thought he had ascendancy, got clever again, only to discover that revenue is indeed declining, the shortage not abating 'despite record recruitment' (of new cadet pilots)..

To a hammer everything is a nail.

[Captain Dart]

A screaming full page ad for Ryanair TR and NTR captains in my latest ‘Flight’ mag. ‘What’s New’ and ‘Other Good Stuff’ highlighted.

What was that about ‘cloud bunnies’ and ‘aerosexuals’ that O’Leary sneered about some years ago?

[jetlikespeeds]

Not really required for our leaders.

One of the best things about working in ‘the group’ is being able to complete our annual engagement survey, or in other words, an ‘open letter’ to management knowing that it will be seen and acted upon from those at the very top of our organisation.

JLS.

[bazza stub]

Oh dear :ugh:

[dragon man]

Not really required for our leaders.

One of the best things about working in ‘the group’ is being able to complete our annual engagement survey, or in other words, an ‘open letter’ to management knowing that it will be seen and acted upon from those at the very top of our organisation.

JLS.

Ho f**cking ho, a comedian. Tounge in cheek I assume?

[blow.n.gasket]

I call BS Jetlikespeeds
complete our annual engagement survey, or in other words, an ‘open letter’ to management knowing that it will be seen and acted upon from those at the very top of our organisation.


In years gone by as a staff initiated suggestion I’ve proposed as a way to dramatically improve the Company’s bottom line was for numerous senior managers to go and drop dead .
Not one of them listened , they’re mostly still here ticket clipping their way to multi million dollar bonus’.

[Slippery_Pete]

Kudos to the Cobham contract pilots for their industrial campaign, withdrawing co-operation has big impact when the whole thing relies on good will.

I wouldn’t get too excited.

The union is about to recommend red tail pilots sign the latest deal - which is an absolute joke.

Some $15k less base salary than their F100 counterparts - and the 717 is a bigger aircraft!

[neville_nobody]

Obviously no shortage of pilots then, if that’s the case.

[Blitzkrieger]

Not to mention the immediate cessation of PIA effective the day the draft agreement was accepted by the reps. Convenient considering the festive season is just around the corner. Many are thinking they’ll vote it down anyway.

[Aussie Fo]

Whilst I don’t know anything of the individual awards, expecting a $15000 pay rise cause the guys next door are paid more will never happen.

3% is about all anyone gets.

Unless you’re Alan Joyce

[Rated De]

Obviously no shortage of pilots then, if that’s the case.

Not quite sure that there is any correlation. Perhaps the union shares the same opinion as you,

I would respectfully suggest your management does not! It is likely well aware of the retirement rate increase and is positioning ahead to control labour unit cost.

As I suggested previously it is disappointing that myopia seems to be the order of the day. My hope is that the Cobham pilots realise the company uses professional and detached negotiators, pilots do it themselves. In such circumstances it is readily apparent which side wins the day.

I would respectfully suggest that many Cobham pilots know exactly the lay of the land and need neither PIA provisions nor a union directive to realise how vulnerable the company position is.

[davidclarke]

Whilst I don’t know anything of the individual awards, expecting a $15000 pay rise cause the guys next door are paid more will never happen.

3% is about all anyone gets.

Unless you’re Alan Joyce

What's wrong with comparing your wages to the guy next door. You have to compare it to something. By accepting 3% is all you get is why pilot wages have been eroded so much in this country.

As an example, flight crew at the big US airlines have had significant pay rises in the last few years so it is very possible to get a good deal.

[CurtainTwitcher]

As an example, flight crew at the big US airlines have had significant pay rises in the last few years so it is very possible to get a good deal.

Yes, however, US pilots had pay & benefits decimated post 911. Labour relations have been much more volatile post deregulation in the US with mergers, bankruptcy
& Chapter 11.

Hero pilot Capt. “Sully” Sullenberger, who landed the US Airways airbus on the Hudson, has a tough message for Congress: Pilots are getting so shafted by their employers that the good ones are leaving to do something else.

Sully, for one, is paid 40% less than he was a few years ago and is maintaining a middle-class existence only because he started a consulting company on the side. Folks on the Hudson flight are no doubt glad he didn’t decide to start consulting full time.

AP: The pilot who safely ditched a jetliner in New York’s Hudson River said Tuesday that pay and benefit cuts are driving experienced pilots from careers in the cockpit.

US Airways pilot Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger told the House aviation subcommittee that his pay has been cut 40 per cent in recent years and his pension has been terminated and replaced with a promise “worth pennies on the dollar” from the federally created Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. These cuts followed a wave of airline bankruptcies after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks compounded by the current recession, he said…

The reduced compensation has placed “pilots and their families in an untenable financial situation,” Sullenberger said. “I do not know a single, professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps.”…
Capt. Sullenberger: Stop Cutting Pilot Pay Or Next Plane Will Crash In River (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/capt-sullenberger-stop-cutting-pilot-pay-or-next-time-plane-will-crash-in-river-2009-2)

[davidclarke]

Yes, however, US pilots had pay & benefits decimated post 911. Labour relations have been much more volatile post deregulation in the US with mergers, bankruptcy
& Chapter 11.

Yep agreed. You could also say that Australian pilots have had their pay and conditions significantly reduced over the years as a result of bankruptcy and new carriers emerging out of the ashes.

[Rated De]

Yep agreed. You could also say that Australian pilots have had their pay and conditions significantly reduced over the years as a result of bankruptcy and new carriers emerging out of the ashes.

It is now apparent across most continents that the model of unlimited supply of qualified pilots is in decline.

The trick now for pilots is to understand that most of the well worn threats date from a time where too many pilots for available jobs was the mantra.
Ask yourself what happens if supply is limited?

If I were an airline knowing what we face locking in a labour unit cost floor by any means would be my target.

If pilots realise the threats although effective in past times have lost their gloss, they may realise once and for all the emperor never had any clothes..

[neville_nobody]

Not quite sure that there is any correlation. Perhaps the union shares the same opinion as you,

I would respectfully suggest your management does not! It is likely well aware of the retirement rate increase and is positioning ahead to control labour unit cost

If that were true management are just setting themselves up to get whipsawed. Maybe they don’t care because by then they will have quit. Who knows?

They are not stupid, and obviously they think they can undercut their own contractors so the labour has to becoming from somewhere.
There are a lot expat Australian pilots out there, what price will bring them home is a interesting question yet to be answered

[Rated De]

They are not stupid, and obviously they think they can undercut their own contractors so the labour has to becoming from somewhere.

I agree Neville they are not stupid, but I simply cannot see the labour supply. I read the opinion, but factually why is Australia different? The ABS put out whole documents as do Treasury on demographic and supply problems, why would pilots be different? All I would suggest is look at the population profiles across the Western world, concentrate on demographics and you will see an emerging problem: lack of skilled supply. In a global market that is really important. retirement rates at Australian airlines are experiencing the same rise as those abroad. You don't expect management to tell you that now do you?

If i were your IR I would try it on, it worked every time before. spooked pilots convinced of their own vulnerability are already a spent force.. Whether Jetconnect or Network or any other boogie man can actually meet the requirements of crew numbers, standard or schedule is irrelevant, convincing pilots it is on the door step is a frightfully effective technique. Whole empires are funded on it.

To our thinking they are trying it on, it worked before! Perhaps individual contractors withdrawing co-operation may show the emperor has no clothes. Perhaps not, but if one fails to understand the broader macro drivers then Australian exceptionalism may continue to reduce terms and conditions.

[oldm8ey]

Jesus get some perspective. If you're on the uber gravy train I suspect you are on then you are clearly hard to please.