USAF Pilot Retention Rates & Bonuses [Archive]

ORAC

21st Nov 2017, 06:45

The Air Force is throwing money at pilots to stay. Fewer and fewer are interested. (http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/19/the-air-force-is-throwing-money-at-pilots-to-stay-fewer-and-fewer-are-interested/)

Despite offering fat retention bonuses to entice pilots to stay in the Air Force, the percentage of eligible pilots accepting them is plummeting.

The Air Force said it typically hopes about 65 percent of eligible pilots will accept the retention bonuses. But in fiscal 2015, only 55 percent took the bonuses and signed up for longer stints. And the so-called “take rate” has plunged even further since then, to 48 percent in fiscal 2016, and 44 percent in fiscal 2017, according to figures released by the Air Force. In all, 476 pilots accepted retention bonuses last year.

The dramatically increased bonuses ― once called Aviator Retention Pay and earlier this year renamed the Aviation Bonus Program ― are one of several tools the Air Force is rolling out to try to stem an exodus that has contributed to an almost 2,000-pilot shortfall. Commercial airlines are aggressively recruiting Air Force pilots and can offer salaries that are far higher than what the military offers.

In June, the Air Force for the first time began offering retention bonuses of up to $455,000 to fighter pilots who agree to extend their service 13 more years, at $35,000 per year. Until then, the most a fighter pilot could get was a retention bonus of $225,000, or $25,000 per year for a nine-year extension. Fighter pilots are also eligible for $35,000 annual bonuses for extensions of one, two, five or nine years. Only five out of about 200 eligible fighter pilots accepted the 13-year extension in 2017, although it was only available for the last four months of the fiscal year. In all, 122 fighter pilots accepted retention bonuses last year.

Although the increased bonuses have not been enough to turn things around, the Air Force says it’s encouraged that the decline appears to be slowing. “Any time we’re short of that [65 percent] target, it’s an area of concern,” Air Force spokeswoman Capt. Kate Atanasoff said in an email. “However, given the continued increase in airline hiring, which is historically our biggest challenge to retention, we’re encouraged that the take rate has not continued to decline at the same rate. We’ll continue to pursue programs that incentivize retention both through quality of life and monetary incentive programs.”

For most categories of pilots, the decline in take rates between 2016 and 2017 was indeed smaller than the previous year’s decline. For example, the take rate for 11F fighter pilots dropped from 47.8 percent in 2015 to 39.5 percent in 2016, a decline of 8.3 percentage points. It fell further to 34.6 percent last year, which represented a 4.9 percentage point drop.

But not all categories of pilots are slowing down. For some, the decline is accelerating. The 11H rescue pilots’ take rate actually ticked up 0.2 percentage points in 2016, to 78.6 percent, before falling 2.9 percentage points to 75.7 percent in 2017. And 11R C2ISR pilots saw an increase from 55.3 percent in 2015 to 58.5 percent in 2016, before recording a 19.4 percentage point decline to 39.1 percent in 2017. The 11S special operations pilots’ take rates increased in 2017 by 10.5 percentage points, to 59.2 percent, and 11U and 18X unmanned pilots’ rates went up 7.1 percentage points to 62.3 percent.

Atanasoff said that many factors may have contributed to the C2ISR decline. It is a relatively small community ― just 23 11R pilots accepted retention bonuses in 2017 ― so small fluctuations in the actual number of pilots could have larger effects on the percentages, she said. Also, Atanasoff said, the Air Force cut the maximum bonus C2ISR pilots could receive in 2017. They previously were eligible for up to a nine-year extension at $25,000 annually, or a maximum bonus of $225,000. But in 2017, the maximum extension was cut to five years at $28,000 annually, or $140,000.

“The Air Force is working diligently to explore and implement new retention initiatives to keep our skilled aviators,” Atanasoff said. Most other categories of pilots saw increases in their maximum possible bonus in 2017. For example, bomber, special operations and mobility pilots for the first time became eligible for up to nine-year extensions at $30,000 annually, or a total of $270,000, up from the maximum $225,000 some of those pilots could have received in 2016.

When asked why take rates continue to decline, Atanasoff pointed to the continuous combat operations the Air Force has been maintaining since the Gulf War 26 years ago, as well as the shrinkage of the service’s aircraft and manning levels. “These two opposing forces have put a strain on our airmen’s ability to maintain a work-life balance,” Atanasoff said. “At the same [time], airlines are hiring at record levels, offering our airmen stability for their families and financial compensation that the Air Force can’t compete with.”

wondering

21st Nov 2017, 07:11

Does that mean some countries can hope for less harassment and bombing in the future?

BEagle

21st Nov 2017, 07:20

ORAC wrote: In June, the Air Force for the first time began offering retention bonuses of up to $455,000 to fighter pilots who agree to extend their service 13 more years, at $35,000 per year.

Somewhat more enticing than the free leather jacket of Ronnie Raygun's time....:rolleyes:

bafanguy

21st Nov 2017, 10:47

End of story:

“History says the single most relevant factor for pilot retention in the Air Force is how much the airlines are hiring,” Holmes said. “I can’t pay pilots enough to offset what the airlines are paying. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/20/accs-gen-holmes-air-force-straining-to-train-enough-new-fighter-pilots/

gums

21st Nov 2017, 13:43

Salute!

It ain't the $$$$$.

Most of us would have paid the government to be able to fly those jets.

It's the quality of life that is driving the exodus. It started over 20 years ago when we wouldn't completely leave Iraq. Stoopid "no fly zone" or something. So my local wing had a rotation of Eagles going over there all the time.

And then we had 9/11 and our special ops folks here deployed withing days to find UBL. My neighbor parachuted in and rode with the northern alliance folks on horses!

Then 'raqi II. GASP!! And more in the 'stan and in......

They are not deploying as much the last four or five years, but the damage had been done.

I spent my own long remote tours during the Vietnam era, but it finally ended in 1975 and we went back to basic cold war status and the Viper was coming on line with a line of volunteers a mile long.

I saw the exodus in the 'nam years when we would have to go back every two years or so or get out. Many got out.

Gums opines...

bafanguy

21st Nov 2017, 14:35

It ain't the $$$$$.

It's the quality of life that is driving the exodus.

Gums opines...

You are correct, Sir. Lifestyle is a very big factor in the travails of the USAF pilot retention. They're working these people like rented mules.

In the Terms & Endearment section, there's a long series of articles about this issue and lifestyle figures prominently in it.

Under the umbrella of "airline" flying comes better money...and lifestyle. :D

gums

21st Nov 2017, 18:16

Salute!

TNX for nice words, "GUY".

I did not include many things about the military lifestyle and especially the fighter community that changed drastically starting in the 70's.

Last base I saw with a stag bar was Nellis in early 80's. My old haunt at Myrtle Beach had "sanitized" their O-club, even with an A-10 wing there ( 1983 or so). The clubs went "smokeless" and no more Friday afternoon happy hours and the beat goes on. Eglin hung in there until mid-90's after being the "World's Largest Distributor of Mig Parts" during Desert Storm. USAF finally made the wing take down the sign and the constant rotation got old. And we also had Khobar Towers, where one of our squads lost over a dozen folks from a truck bomb.

The health system changed, but was still cheaper than anything you could get for a reasonable price downtown. The system got better in the 90's after some scandals at VA and a successful lawsuit against DoD that re-instated our coverage we had for so many years.

All that aside, the basic ops tempo is still the driver. I know many airline folks, and the ones on the long haul routes prolly spend 10 - 15 days per month on the road. They get a good number of days off between the missions, but in the whole they prolly spend as many days away from home as I ever did. 'course, they are not getting shot at, and no Taliban is blowing up their HQ. These days our warriors are at some campground for three or four months at a time. And most places these days are not vacation venues.

I had a super career. I flew really neat jets, got shot at, shot up and shot down once. Except for getting shot at, it was great, and my wife went thru the whole thing with me from day one. We still have great friends and the men covered each other's back in combat on two or three tours.

It's just not fun anymore.

Gums opines...

The B Word

21st Nov 2017, 18:37

It's just not fun anymore

Same for your UK cousins as well...

YellowTom

21st Nov 2017, 19:38

The airlines always get bad press when as people here are suggesting the USAF needs to look closer to home than blame them. A lot of the pilots from the “gray airliner” world I bump into seem more interested in cargo than airline options. Once they get their almost automatic promotion to Major then for most they’ve hit their career ceiling. Then it is all about how many flavours of ice cream are available.

banterbus

21st Nov 2017, 19:55

Puts the UK's retention offer to shame then; £36,000 for 6 years!!

People are leaving because yes, there are opportunities outside, but if they are content where they are, they wouldn't feel the need to put their family through the stress of relocation and a job transition.

Trim Stab

21st Nov 2017, 20:18

Is there a similar problem in USN/USMC?

bafanguy

21st Nov 2017, 20:28

The airlines always get bad press when as people here are suggesting the USAF needs to look closer to home than blame them.

In the USA, airlines taking military pilots is merely the natural order of things...always has been to my understanding of history. I don't hear it carrying any blame.

What's different in our current chapter of history is the USAF having meetings with airline management about how to stem the flow...and allegedly to some mutual benefit accruing to both parties.

This is due to the staggering number of mandatory retirements on the airline books.

This is akin to negotiating with the foxes guarding the hen house door about limiting chicken inflow. It's actually pretty funny because the airlines WILL fill seats and they want every frikkin' military pilot they can get their hands on. They'll get them.

bafanguy

21st Nov 2017, 20:32

Is there a similar problem in USN/USMC?

I don't think it's as great but they're feeling the pinch. I saw a passing reference to it in one of the many articles I've read (all saying pretty much the same thing) but with no data like we're seeing from the USAF.

Found this. Not sure what "special steps" are:

“The Navy and Marine Corps also are taking special steps to retain more experienced pilots but, so far, those service branches haven’t seen the exodus of mid-career pilots battering the Air Force, particularly its fighter aircraft community.”

https://www.stripes.com/airline-hiring-lifestyle-issues-deepen-air-force-pilot-shortage-1.498140

I assume attrition and "production limitations" are different issues:

“The Air Force is also planning to move some of its lieutenants to Navy and Marine Corps squadrons ― which Holmes acknowledged have also been struggling with pilot production limitations ― to fly Navy EA-18 Growlers and Marine F-35s.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/20/accs-gen-holmes-air-force-straining-to-train-enough-new-fighter-pilots/

Rotate too late

21st Nov 2017, 22:28

Put 36grand in front of me or 360, it really wouldn’t matter. It’s not that I wouldn’t go back, I couldn’t go back. I could never do it to my family again, and now I’ve tasted the other flavours of ice cream, I’m sorry to say that the effort that went into de-constructing what was a lifestyle into just another job, has well and truly worked. So now, I’d be looking at how to keep my workforce with as much effort as civilian companies do, or, accept that you will have to increase your training outflow to offset. I bumped into an old mate who’s still flying AH, he said they’re busier than ever!! God help them.

gums

21st Nov 2017, 22:35

Salute!

I am not too sure about the Marines, but the Navy folks have scheduled cruises unless we go to war. So they know their schedule and they and families can love it or leave it.

The USAF fighter units are constantly going here and there without a long range schedule. Ditto for some of the tac airlift and maybe a small group of buffs ( the flying bomb trucks at the sandbox). The main airlifters are not going thru the same drill.

During 'nam we had a system of "overseas return date" plus "remote tour". So it was first in/out and then after all others did their turn, your number came up again. That was how I got my third tour in 1975. My second tour was only 170 days or so, meaning it didn't count for a "return date" or "remote tour". So early '75 I was sent back for the full "remote tour". The 170 day TDY option did not offer any financial help, whereas the PCS "remote tour" provided a few goodies for the family.

The situation the last 20 years has been about the same. Go, come back, go again, come back.......... I have heard there are some deals whereby you can make the jaunt count for a full-blown tour and then go to the back of the line after being transferred to a training outfit or non-flying assignment.

Oh well....

Gums sends...

Rick777

21st Nov 2017, 23:21

Had lunch with head of hiring for United today. He said last year 51% of hires had mil background.

Airbubba

22nd Nov 2017, 02:06

Had lunch with head of hiring for United today. He said last year 51% of hires had mil background.

Years ago almost all Pan Am pilots had a military background and many were Yalies and Boat School graduates.

And Delta preferred Navy pilots. :ok: The gouge was that for interview purposes you couldn't be a Catholic or drive a Corvette. Be careful what you say at the Barbecue Kitchen during the lunch break. And don't rock in Dr. Janus' chair during the psych eval. ;)

When Top Gun came out in 1986 Naval Aviator morale and recruitment shot up.

The Air Force then gave out leather jackets 'similar to those worn by Naval aviators' in an attempt to 'improve air crew morale and retention.' :D

Leather jackets to cover Air Force flight crews again

June 4, 1987

WASHINGTON (UPI) -- The Air Force will resume issuing leather flight jackets to its combat-ready fliers in an estimated $5 million effort to enhance esprit de corps, military officials say.

'The flight-jacket initiative was suggested by field commanders as a means of enhancing esprit within the combat-ready air crew force,' said Lt. Gen. Thomas Hickey, deputy chief of personnel for the Air Force.

'It is one of a number of efforts the Air Force is undertaking to improve air crew morale and retention.'

Hickey said Wednesday the service 'intends to renew the tradition' of issuing leather flying jackets that 'will be similar to the jackets issued to air crews during World War II' and similar to those worn by Naval aviators.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/06/04/Leather-jackets-to-cover-Air-Force-flight-crews-again/8952549777600/

bafanguy

22nd Nov 2017, 08:05

Had lunch with head of hiring for United today. He said last year 51% of hires had mil background.

Rick777,

Certainly the norm. This recent statement from the SVP Flt Ops at DL :

"...more than half of our pilots, are veterans or on active military duty."

The only reason it's not closer to 100% is supply numbers. Just life in the big airline. ;)

bafanguy

22nd Nov 2017, 09:35

Here's a recent addition to the info. They're discussing measures they previously said they wouldn't use:

But Venable wonders whether the Air Force will need to resort to more drastic, involuntary recall measures, including invoking stop-loss.

“I don’t think there’s much the Air Force can do right now ... except invoke stop-loss in order to stop this gross departure of pilots,” Venable said. “I had the chief of staff here at the Heritage Foundation [at the beginning of the year] and he said stop-loss is not on the table. But, at one point or another, you’ve got to maintain your combat capability. And if they can’t ... I think he’s going to have to [consider] stop-loss. It would be draconian, everybody would hate it.

But I’m not sure what their alternatives are going to be.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/21/break-this-force-air-force-warns-cuts-manning-woes-could-hurt-war-zone-fight/

OK465

22nd Nov 2017, 13:51

And Delta preferred Navy pilots. The gouge was that for interview purposes you couldn't be a Catholic or drive a Corvette. Be careful what you say at the Barbecue Kitchen during the lunch break. And don't rock in Dr. Janus' chair during the psych eval.

You forgot the 'slide puzzle' on the secretary's desk.

You know, I went thru that drill in ATL in 1972 with the usual group of 'fawning psycophants'...."Honest sir, all I've ever wanted to do is be a Delta pilot."

Said to myself, this is ridiculous and took a full time job with the Arizona ANG. 6 months later when Delta said you're hired, I told 'em I had changed my mind. :p

A good feeling and ultimately one of my better decisions.

Back in the 60s & 70s getting out was the only way to have a chance of doing what most really wanted to do....and that was to 'just fly airplanes' and not be at the mercy of the personnel system....'get your PME done, do your rated supp, you've got to get a 'sponsor', be a good staff guy, etc.' ROTC grad, I got a DG regular commission out of pilot training and gave it up to go to....

....the ANG where you were your own personnel officer and determined your own career path.

Ops tempo or lack of incentives, there are folks that relish the life as long as they can just fly, and really aren't necessarily any less intelligent or less capable than the command motivated 'fast burners'....just less interested.

OK465

22nd Nov 2017, 16:10

You know, there's got to be better, easier to comprehend metrics for the problem than those mumbo-jumbo military accountant percentages.

How about how many scheduled code-1 F-16s sit on the ramp each day for lack of pilots?

A possible solution would be to go back to the 'universal pilot' philosophy and be willing to cross-train TTB folks into fighters for a tour....with Auto-GCAS what could possibly go wrong? Talk about motivational....I recall the morale increase when I supported the Tulsa ANG transition from C-124s to F-100s....and every one was given the chance if they wanted it. Nobody turned it down.

In addition you could allow the fighter guys one tour in heavies just before retirement to prepare them for the airlines. :}

gums

22nd Nov 2017, 20:48

Salute!

No universal assignments, Okie!!! None, nada, nyet, noway.com a different The single seat jets need folks with different skill sets than the multi-crew olanes.

Was there in early 70's and saw it. Wasn't a month or two until first fatality on a night range mission - single seater outta The Beach.

OTOH, I helped check out the Ohio C-119 guys in the A-37, and they adapted for the most part. The plane was easy to fly and we had experience with the Vee that had never even had a driver's license!!

The move for some Reserve units was challenging, but the Guard was less of an effort back then because most of them flew old fighters.

I do like the idea of a two year tour in "heavies" for the fighter pilots, but the other way around could be challenging. Several of my buddies did it and one even flew over Hanoi in LBII. The another made stars and had a great career after I checked him out in the Sluf.

It is still the ops tempo and the uncertainty the pilots face that are the drivers. I only saw it from 1966 to 1975. The next generation saw it from 1991 and onward. Plus, there's no firm path as I went thru.

Gums opines...

OK465

22nd Nov 2017, 21:31

I do like the idea of a two year tour in "heavies" for the fighter pilots, but the other way around could be challenging.

You may have just managed to offend a large portion of military aviation. :)

From my experience in transport category, the difference is not so much in the skillset required......but the mindset.

That one can work with.

ORAC

26th Nov 2017, 05:26

UK has a similar problem and scheme - though smaller in both numbers and compensation....
MoD offers helicopter pilots £70,000 to stay (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mod-offers-helicopter-pilots-70-000-to-stay-r95mn8mhz)

Experienced helicopter pilots in the forces are being offered a £70,000 “golden handcuff” deal to stay in their jobs for six years.

Figures from the Ministry of Defence show that 1,049 helicopter pilots left the air force, army and navy during the past five years, with only 508 joining up. The army, for example, lost 201 helicopter pilots, including Prince Harry who flew as an Apache helicopter co-pilot and gunner in Afghanistan in 2012 but left in June 2015. To train an attack helicopter pilot takes four years and costs about £3.5m. The army recruited 131 pilots during the five years.

The figures have fuelled fears that helicopters could be mothballed or squadrons axed in the government’s defence review, which will be published early next year. “These figures are unsustainable,” one defence source said. “At this rate, manning squadrons will be impossible.” Kevan Jones, Labour MP and a former defence minister who obtained the figures, said they raised “questions about the government’s handling of the defence budget”.

Insiders say pilots are being poached by the commercial airline industry, which is in the grip of a pilot shortage. “The problem the MoD has is that it can’t compete financially or in quality of life with civvy street,” the source said. To entice them to stay, the MoD introduced a £70,000 payment in April for pilots with seven or more years’ experience who agree to stay for a further six years. The money has to be repaid if they leave before then.

The MoD said it “has sufficient helicopters and pilots from all three services and is able to meet all of its operational commitments and tasks at home and overseas”.

high spirits

26th Nov 2017, 17:04

This is not a 70 Grand bonus.

This is the start of the new flying pay scheme. Ie, a new joiner will not get any flying (retention) pay whilst they are under their 6 year return of service post their first OCU. They then get what they would have got in Retention pay as a lump sum, but only if they agree to stay in for another 7 years.

Rotate too late

26th Nov 2017, 17:45

No, it was a retention attempt to keep pilots way past that point.

JPJP

26th Nov 2017, 22:26

Experienced helicopter pilots in the forces are being offered a £70,000 “golden handcuff” deal to stay in their jobs for six years.

Funny. As the good General alluded to in a quote on the first page - ‘they can’t compete with the airlines for the money’.

A guy at my humble airline made £70,000 in July. Flying a 737. That’s obviously atypical, but it’s definitely do-able. It seems obvious from Gums and OK465 posts that this problem has been around for a while. It’s also appears that the solution is obvious, to all but the people who are able to change the system; Stop screwing people around, and let them do what they joined for - Fly.

The ‘Dear Boss’ letter -

Dear Boss, I Don't Just Quit, I Give Up | Small Wars Journal (http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/dear-boss-i-dont-just-quit-i-give-up)

gums

26th Nov 2017, 23:19

Salute!

No offense to the "heavy" crews, Okie. There is a "mindset" issue to be sure, but in my career it was the fighter pilot that needed the "help". They call it crew resource management nowadays ( CRM). I flew a "crew" jet for two years, 400 hours in the VooDoo interceptor. After that it was single seat for another 3000 hours.

My "heavy" friends could be determined soon after starting pilot training. A few had actual "touch" or "feel" problems. In other words, my roomie had problems just trimming the plane and nailing approach speed within 2 knots. I was blessed to have a "natural" feel. That meant I could look around, make radio calls, navigate and so forth. My roomie went to buffs, but after a few years got a chopper assignment in 'nam, so his "feel" got better.

I am not an elitist, but I feel that we are not all born equal and have equal flying skills WRT "hands". The CRM issue is real, and I appreciate it. So we fighter pilots have it easy. Fly the jet, hit the tgt or other jet, navigate and come back. So back when the earth was still cooling our IP's actually had an input to our assignment. They called it "fighter qualified" or some such. Ten years later we had the "equal opportunity" movement and it didn't work. Not only piss poor fighter pilots that could not multi-task, but I counseled a tanker guy that graduated number one but they gave him a KC-135 and he wanted out. Good ending to that story ( upon request).

It ain't the money!!!!!!

The "Dear Boss" letters have been around since the 70's. And none have mentioned $$$$$.

My feeling is our country is trying too hard to "help" other folks and there is no end in sight nor clear results. Oh well.....

Gums sends...

OK465

27th Nov 2017, 19:38

How about enlisted pilots as a solution?

With USMS I flew with ex-enlisted types who had various jobs in the military....and who did their service, had gotten out and financed their own aviation careers as civilians. They were dual current in DOJ 727s & Hawker 800s and were very good. Would have made fine military pilots.

I don't recall ever using my college education as such when flying. In fact, one of the better fighter pilots I ever flew with had been a music major.

In addition, with enlisted pilots you would save money associated with the lower pay grades. :}

StopStart

27th Nov 2017, 20:39

And your enlisted pilots will be even keener than the officers to leave the military once they learn of the even bigger relative pay rise they’ll get if they jump ship to an airline....

OK465

27th Nov 2017, 20:50

You just tack a bigger commitment on them. They won't notice 'cause without a college education, they can't count anyway. :)

gums

27th Nov 2017, 22:35

Salute!

I am not sure that a CW3 would want to bail out real quick, but it has to do with the "contract" for "x" years.

The U.S. Army had thousands of those CW folks during 'nam, and we still have them. In other words, we had "technicians" or "mechanics" and they were not dedicated career military types that wanted or desired "flag" rank ( like me! heh heh)

If the warrant officer folks like being constantly deployed to the sandbox far into the future, great. Somehow I don't think they want that and will bail soon as they can. It ain't about the money!!! Dammit!!!!

To keep on and keeping on you, have to really have faith that you are contributing to some noble cause and not just "doing your job".

I fully agree about pilots. navigators, systems operators and other crew positions that do not need to have a person with a college degree in social studies!!! So no requirement to have a college degree, and I could have done just as well in my training with just a high school education and being able to read and write and do simple math.

Gums opines...

small_dog

30th Nov 2017, 11:08

"Not only piss poor fighter pilots that could not multi-task, but I counseled a tanker guy that graduated number one but they gave him a KC-135 and he wanted out. Good ending to that story ( upon request)."

Hi Gums,
I'm curious, please could you expand on this story? I'm intrigued!
Thanks

gums

30th Nov 2017, 13:18

Salute!

No problem, Small. It's one of my successes as a counselor and instructor at Air University.

Most here know that a staff job or something akin is a requirement if you wish to keep advancing or just stay in! So I took my turn in the barrel at Squadron Officer School, Air University. I had already been selected for the middle management charm school but an overseas assignment screwed that up. So I volunteered to go back to SOS as an instructor. This was in the height of the USAF equal oppo days and during the infamous effectiveness ratings that required half of all the officers to be rated in the bottom 50%. No kidding, you Brits, it killed the careers of many folks like me that just wanted to fly but had to get promoted to be a "keeper".

To the point: A fellow instructor asked me to counsel a young man who was clearly a natural born leader and team player in his section. He told her that he was gonna bail as soon as he could, even tho his unit had sent him to the junior officer school at AU. I agreed and we talked and talked and talked.

He was an Academy grad and at the top of his pilot training class, ditinguished graduate and all that. They gave him a KC-135 assignment!!!! GASP. At the time, the war was over and no easy way to get out of your "track". A few years later the equal oppo crapola went away or was drastically revised, and I helped several youngsters get into the Viper. Did it again about 4 or 5 years ago for a helo troop ( a Warrant Officer in the Apache) and helped him get into a guard outfit, then get commissioned and then fly the Viper.

Anyway, I could not actively help with his assignment, but I pointed him at one way he might break the mold. Volunteer for an assignment at the USAF systems HQ in Dayton or as an instructor at USAFA. He did both and only flew a bit after that, then became a professional educator. He did well, contributed to USAF, and eventually became the Dean of Faculty at USAFA and other universities after getting out( as a Brigadier).

During the war, many folks converted to fighters after initial assignments in transports or buffs or as basic training instructors. It was easy to volunteer to get shot at, and you could just about name your plane. A close friend went from C-130 to O-1A to A-37 to A-7D, and so on. Another went from an AC-47 Spooky to the A-37 to A-7D to F-117. And the beat goes on. All that went away after 1973. I was blessed and squirmed my way into the Viper when my tour at AU was over due to my high time, combat experience and good recommendations by folks already at Hill.

So that's it.

Nowadays they track the pilots early on. In my time, your class standing for assignments was pretty much determined shortly after finishing T-37's. I was always in the top 3 in my class, and was pretty sure I was gonna get my fighter.

Gums sends...

small_dog

30th Nov 2017, 14:39

Hi Gums!
Thanks for that! Very interesting!
Thanks again!

bafanguy

7th Dec 2017, 08:37

Enlisted USAF pilots ?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/12/06/enlisted-combat-pilots-the-air-force-is-launching-a-test-that-could-lead-to-that/

Enlisted USAF pilots ? Well, apparently not:

"Air Education and Training Command said in a Thursday release that although its new Pilot Training Next program will include some enlisted airmen, it is not intended to create enlisted aviators."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/12/08/air-force-shoots-down-possibility-of-enlisted-combat-pilots/

West Coast

9th Dec 2017, 04:16

Kudos to the AF, this is a sea change for them as they’ve kept many positions Officer only. The USMC (maybe the Navy as well) has enlisted Navs on its C130s while the USAF (at least in the 90s) had officers doing the same job.

VinRouge

9th Dec 2017, 12:24

No, it was a retention attempt to keep pilots way past that point.

Thats funny, I didn't get an offer of 70K, despite having lots more experience (and years done) than those having had the offer.

And time to do till contract end as a result of repeated tinkerings with my pension.

Rotate too late

9th Dec 2017, 16:11

Thats funny, I didn't get an offer of 70K, despite having lots more experience (and years done) than those having had the offer.

And time to do till contract end as a result of repeated tinkerings with my pension.o

Errrrrr, hence the retention ATTEMPT.......

Switch on lofty.

The B Word

9th Dec 2017, 20:07

When the RAF looked at NCO pilots recently during a planning exercise they worked out more expensive than officers over a predicted 20 year period (2016 figures used):

OR-6 Sgt starts on ~£35k and after 20 years as an OR-9 MACR earns about £48k

OF-1 Fg Off starts on ~£31k and rises to top of Flt Lt on £47k

After 2.5yrs the officer promotes to Flt Lt on ~£39k and the Sgt is either on £36k but promoted to FS about 3-5 years later starting on ~£38k. However, the 2.5yrs that the Sgt gets paid ~£4k more, and the MACR gets £1k+ per year towards the end of the 20 year period means that the NCOs are likely to be ahead by ~£20k over the period.

The RRP(F) is exactly the same for officer pilots as it is for the Army. They also get a retention payment of £70k but at a different point. So no savings to be had there.

Finally, an officer’s quarter is cheaper to the military as the officer pays more for a quarter than a SNCO will pay for theirs per month. Further, the SNCOs get free uniforms, so more money costs there. Plus also, most SNCO aircrew have the education quals for officer entry anyway.

So overall, SNCO/WO pilots worked out more expensive than officer pilots! :8

Not sure if the same applies to the US military, but it’s worth doing the maths (math!) first.

Just This Once...

9th Dec 2017, 21:07

When part of you problem is filling aircrew officer positions higher up the rank chain, employing less of them at more junior levels would only make things worse.

gums

9th Dec 2017, 21:31

Salute!

The tooth-to-tail ratio is a player, but I don't know how we can easily remedy that.

I always felt and still do that we have too many generals. Full colonels? About right for their jobs as wing or group commanders and such. In any case, that ain't the problem.

Besides the constant, never-ending war in the sandbox, there's the stuff that we always had to do besides fly and learn more about flying and practicing/training. In other words, we could have had a few generations of technicians like warrant officers and they would fly and fight. OTOH, we also needed senior officers and leaders that had touched the elephant and had the respect needed to wage war.

Seems to me that there's a happy medium with basic pilots and navigators and EWO's and so forth that are not ever gonna be generals. Then we should have a share of slots filled by the "professional" officers that will eventually command thousands or manage programs worth billions.

I repeat my mantra that the biggest thing with retention today is not $$$$. I saw it in the early 70's in the fighter community with many friends bailing out because the Vietnam scenario was not going away, and the airlines were hiring due to all the WW2 and Korean pilots retiring.

The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.

Gums opines...

The B Word

9th Dec 2017, 23:09

I repeat my mantra that the biggest thing with retention today is not $$$$. I saw it in the early 70's in the fighter community with many friends bailing out because the Vietnam scenario was not going away, and the airlines were hiring due to all the WW2 and Korean pilots retiring.

The 16 years we Yanks have spent in the sandbox has no end in sight. We haven't lost as many folks as we did from 1961 to 1973, but the smaller force is deploying a lot more. In 'nam we would go bout every 2 or 3 years, as we had a daisy chain system that used "return dates" and such.

Spot on, Gums. Same issues, much smaller scale, on the other side of the pond. The other push is the ‘death by a thousand cuts’ when you get home. Overburdened by ‘niff naf and trivia’ and red tape coupled to no fun factor that all joined for. The strangest and smallest of things are the final catalyst that sees the “I don’t want to this anymore” flag being raised.

The seniors and the bean counters have for years played the poker game of “nah, they’re bluffing, they won’t leave”. Well guess what, they are and thanks to cuts and savings in other areas there are no means to train the replacements and no money to pay for it!

bafanguy

15th Dec 2017, 19:54

Air National Guard statement on the pilot supply issue:

“The only good news for me is you can be an airline pilot and a National Guard pilot” at the same time, he said, referencing how the Air Force is losing active-duty pilots to commercial airlines.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/12/14/4-star-air-guard-pilot-shortages-most-acute-among-full-time-airmen/

OK465

15th Dec 2017, 21:19

The Guard is not what it used to be....ever since they politicked for front line equipment, and more significantly, the image of front line responsibility under the guise of 'total force'. 'Hand me down' stuff had one advantage....nobody really cared what you did with it, they expected to lose a few....and you could have two or more fighter squadrons at different locations in one state instead of in the boneyard (4 at one time in Ohio with surprisingly few airline types). All these folks, both ops & mx, were ultimately upgradable if absolutely necessary.

Be careful what you wish for.

When I told my new wife I was going out to the base do to an AFTP, she said, "What does that stand for, All Farmers Turn into Pilots?" Used to....:}

Now, for various reasons, they're basically RegAF clones with a lot more drone and intel units.

bafanguy

29th Dec 2017, 19:51

The latest thought from the USAF brass: Letting pilots just fly, but not just fly too much. They still just don't get it:

"Gen. Carlton Everhart has been gathering feedback from airmen on ways the Air Force can retain much-needed talent in the face of a national pilot shortage. One common theme that stood out, Everhart said, was how pilots wanted to keep flying without being bogged down by additional duties.

This prompted Everhart to brainstorm an aviation-only career path, where pilots would still have to perform certain non-flying duties but could cut down on some that might be unnecessary."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/12/29/new-in-2018-amc-pushes-for-aviation-only-career-track/

Might want to get serious about a plausible solution cuz:

"Over the next four years, about 1,600 mobility pilots will be eligible to separate from the active-duty force, according to Air Mobility Command."

bafanguy

22nd Jan 2018, 08:14

A program to motivate some young people to join the USAF as pilots:

AFJROTC Launches Flight Academy Program To Address Aircrew Shortage | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=d1b6c9a0-40d3-4c03-8715-71d44bbfc981)

MPN11

22nd Jan 2018, 10:16

Compare and contrast with the hollow shell of the UK programme ... https://www.rafa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2016-Flying-Scholarship-Terms-Conditions.pdf

ONE single cadet per annum to PPL standard, and 5 to [presumably] first solo!

When I did my Flying Scholarship in 1963 there were dozens of Air Cadets up and down the country getting their PPL. I think there were 6-8 of us at Oxford.

(Edit. And what's even worse is that it now funded and run by an RAF Charity, and not the RAF or the official Cast organisation.)

bafanguy

14th Feb 2018, 09:26

This is kind of interesting.

No details and not sure what "experimenting" means:

“Gen. Wilson said the Air Force is experimenting with partnering with universities to bring in students who have already gone through their aviation programs. Those students would then go through an abbreviated Air Force pilot training program in the T-1, potentially cutting the timeline in half, he said.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/02/13/air-force-2019-budget-will-grow-pilot-training-pipeline-as-service-fights-severe-shortage/

bafanguy

17th Mar 2018, 19:33

They're still hangin' in there:

"We've dug into the details and analyzed the issue. It really comes down to two areas that we are investing in and focused on," Goldfein said before a House Appropriations Defense subcommittee hearing alongside Wilson. "One is how many pilots we produce and then, two, how many pilots we retain, because you have to get both of those right."

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/14/air-force-sets-goal-20-flight-hours-month-pilots.html

Lima Juliet

18th Mar 2018, 12:14

There is a great article on this here:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/air-force-in-crisis-part-iii-dear-boss-its-all-about-the-culture/

I think it hits the nail squarely on the head. For most NATO Air Forces facing similar issues it’s not all about money, it’s

1. Feeling valued (not just money)
2. Feeling trusted
3. Cutting down on the trivial ‘red tape’
4. Understanding where your job options are within a full career - for example a RAF pilot can now join at 18 and work until 60 - you can’t just fly Typhoons on ops for 42 years!
5. When you say “people are your most valued asset” actually mean it!

bafanguy

18th Mar 2018, 13:53

bafanguy

22nd Mar 2018, 11:48

US Navy's latest pilot retention effort. Bless their li'l hearts:

“The U.S. Navy has expanded three key aviation bonus programs in an effort to keep experienced active-duty and Reserve pilots in the cockpit longer amid a Pentagon-wide aviator shortfall.”

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/21/new-round-incentives-aims-keep-navy-pilots-service.html

minigundiplomat

22nd Mar 2018, 22:56

I think the old adage about presenting statistics to support any case does hold water.....

When the RAF looked at NCO pilots recently during a planning exercise they worked out more expensive than officers over a predicted 20 year period (2016 figures used):

OR-6 Sgt starts on ~£35k and after 20 years as an OR-9 MACR earns about £48k So far so good.....

OF-1 Fg Off starts on ~£31k and rises to top of Flt Lt on £47k

How many Fg Off's do you have these days versus direct entry Flt Lt's?

This comparison is a little skewed when placed above the statement above... How many 20y Flt Lt's do you have that aren't on PAS?

After 2.5yrs the officer promotes to Flt Lt on ~£39k and the Sgt is either on £36k but promoted to FS about 3-5 years later starting on ~£38k. However, the 2.5yrs that the Sgt gets paid ~£4k more, and the MACR gets £1k+ per year towards the end of the 20 year period means that the NCOs are likely to be ahead by ~£20k over the period.

As you've used NCA pay scales as a comparator, the times above don't match as NCA have minimum 5y in rank before being eligible for promotion - so much of these figures are erroneous.

The RRP(F) is exactly the same for officer pilots as it is for the Army. They also get a retention payment of £70k but at a different point. So no savings to be had there.

Finally, an officer’s quarter is cheaper to the military as the officer pays more for a quarter than a SNCO will pay for theirs per month. Further, the SNCOs get free uniforms, so more money costs there. Plus also, most SNCO aircrew have the education quals for officer entry anyway.

Officers pay more for their MQ as they are far larger, and on many stations, more expensive in upkeep.

The free uniforms, in reality, come down to a set of blues - which cost pennies (or should do based on the quality). SNCO's have to purchase their own No 5's, which are probably more expensive than a set of blues.

So overall, SNCO/WO pilots worked out more expensive than officer pilots! :8

Not sure if the same applies to the US military, but it’s worth doing the maths (math!) first.

Just This Once...

23rd Mar 2018, 12:47

No, LJ had it correct. Officers do pay more for identical accommodation, so as a flying officer living next door to a warrant officer I paid considerably more for my MQ despite lower basic pay.

Officer uniform really does have to be paid for (1s,2s, 5s et al) where as it really is free for SNCOs. Mess dress is optional for SNCOs so paying for it or not is up to the individual.

But the major point is that we are short of officers to feed the higher ranks - reducing the supply further would be madness.

Just This Once...

23rd Mar 2018, 13:03

Example 4 Bed SFA:

When occupied by an officer this Type III at Grade B = £7030

Move in an NCO the same house becomes a Type D = £3997

bafanguy

27th Mar 2018, 20:29

I thought that while the USAF had been given the ability to recall 1,000 retirees, they were only going to get a handful. Now it's not clear what they're doing. It's not going to fix their problem but they get a "A" for effort:

"President Trump’s decision to allow up to 1,000 retired pilots to come back has been helpful, Goldfein said, though that program is still early in the process.

He said he’s pushing to ensure the service is effectively reaching out to and following up with retirees who might be interested in returning to uniform."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/03/26/air-force-cuts-overseas-tours-to-ease-pressure-on-airmen-is-your-job-coming-home/

bafanguy

31st Mar 2018, 17:09

Kinda interesting but they can still screw it up:

“It has been decades since enlisted airmen had the chance to sit in the cockpit. But as the Air Force faces the greatest pilot shortages since its inception, service leaders are contemplating a return to a model that includes enlisted pilots. A Rand Corp. study, set to be completed this month, is exploring the feasibility of bringing back a warrant officer corps for that purpose.”

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/31/air-force-may-approve-enlisted-pilots-first-time-75-years.html

bafanguy

2nd Apr 2018, 15:34

I wonder how their hiring efforts are going:

“ATAC’s hiring model, which goes back to its founding in 1994, is to catch pilots as they come out of the military. It does not recruit active-duty fighter pilots, which would only exacerbate the shortage of aviators.”

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/outsourcing-the-enemy-private-sector-helps-the-air-force-in-training-exercises-1.518888

bafanguy

7th Apr 2018, 13:59

And...they're still pondering...and pondering:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/04/06/air-force-inches-closer-to-warrant-officers-could-they-fix-the-pilot-crisis/

bafanguy

7th Apr 2018, 20:13

But it's not a stop-loss order:

“Air Force Reserve pilots, maintainers, space operators and cyber specialists who want to quit the service will have to stay in uniform for at least six months under a plan to address critical skills shortages.

The involuntary service commitment is to ensure that the Air Force Reserve meets recruiting and end-strength goals, according to a memo on the policy that went into effect Sunday.”

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/04/04/af-reserve-adds-6-month-service-commitment-pilots-maintainers.html

The B Word

8th Apr 2018, 13:00

And...they're still pondering...and pondering:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/04/06/air-force-inches-closer-to-warrant-officers-could-they-fix-the-pilot-crisis/

I really can’t see the piint of recruiting direct entry Warrant Officers? Surelythe standard required for Junior Officer and that of a direct entry Warrant Officer would be about the same? As we have said before on this thread the pay is about the same but the enlisted get a few perks at a cheaper rate and so they actually cost more.

With education standards being such a level playing field these days then surely there is little justification of direct entry SNCO/WO entry what so ever?

bafanguy

8th Apr 2018, 13:36

I really can’t see the point of recruiting direct entry Warrant Officers? Surely the standard required for Junior Officer and that of a direct entry Warrant Officer would be about the same?

B,

Not sure it's clear that they'd recruit directly from the street for this position. More likely internally from the enlisted ranks ? This touches the issue of college degree vs no degree...sure don't want to debate THAT one any more. :ugh: This from the article:

"For example, where would they come from? Because warrant officers would be considered officers, Grosso said, their billets would come from the Air Force’s officer end strength.

Would the Air Force get the funding to buy additional billets for warrant officers? Or would a cadre of warrant officers be carved from the existing ranks of Air Force officers?

And if warrant officers are re-established, who would be chosen to convert into those billets?

Grosso said the Air Force hasn’t yet figured that out.

Grosso said that the Air Force could conceivably allow both current enlisted airmen and officers to become warrants."

bafanguy

12th Apr 2018, 19:18

Still pretty tight:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/04/11/the-militarys-stunning-fighter-pilot-shortage-one-in-four-billets-is-empty/

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/04/12/crisis-one-fourth-fighter-pilot-jobs-not-filled-watchdog-finds.html

bafanguy

19th May 2018, 19:57

Still hard at it:

“The Air Force has 69 initiatives it is either reviewing, implementing, or continuing, all of which are aimed at improving the quality of life for pilots to keep them in uniform.”

Air Force Magazine (http://airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/May%202018/USAF-Limiting-Deployments-and-Exercises-Increasing-Physical-Care-to-Keep-Pilots-.aspx)

Air Force Magazine (http://airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2018/June%202018/The-Pilot-Shortage-Quandary.aspx)

bafanguy

24th May 2018, 11:51

The saga continues. Likely too little, too late:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/05/23/air-force-will-bring-back-up-to-1000-retirees-to-plug-gap-in-pilots-other-rated-officers/

bafanguy

25th May 2018, 11:11

Innovation or desperation ?:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/05/24/enders-game-meets-air-force-the-service-is-working-on-a-video-game-to-find-potential-recruits/

bafanguy

1st Jun 2018, 20:36

Latest effort to hold on to pilots. I assume these bonuses are taxable ? They need to fix that to sweeten the pot:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/05/31/retention-bonuses-are-spiking-for-a-lot-of-air-force-pilots-could-you-get-up-to-420k/

bafanguy

13th Jun 2018, 11:36

Still not making much headway:

“The take rate hit 44 percent last year, well below the 65 percent the Air Force usually hopes will accept the bonus.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/06/11/ending-the-pilot-exodus-air-force-rolls-out-new-bonuses-incentives-will-it-work-this-time/

bafanguy

8th Jul 2018, 17:10

USMC takes a stab at throwing money at the attrition issue:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/07/06/corps-competes-airlines-pilots-big-bonuses-grabs.html

bafanguy

15th Jul 2018, 12:45

USAF grassroots effort:

Junior ROTC cadets off and flying in Chief of Staff of the Air Force Flight Academy Scholarship program > Air University (AU) > Air Force Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps (http://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Holm-Center/AFJROTC/News/Article/1569854/junior-rotc-cadets-off-and-flying-in-chief-of-staff-of-the-air-force-flight-aca/)

Airbubba

21st Jul 2018, 01:40

Looks like they are hoping to harvest a few trash haulers from this new program:

So you wanna fly? Air Force pilots can apply to new aviation-only program

By: Charlsy Panzino 4 hours ago

If all you want is to fly in the Air Force, a new program might be for you.

Eligible mobility pilots can apply for Air Mobility Command’s new Aviator Technical Track that cuts out non-flying-related duties and lets you stay in the cockpit longer.

“This fulfills a promise to our airmen that we listened to them and wanted to implement their ideas,” Gen. Carlton Everhart, head of AMC, told Air Force Times.

In April 2017, Everhart reached out to airmen via email and social media to solicit ideas on how the Air Force can better retain talent as it deals with pilot shortages. The Air Force is down about 2,000 pilots, with about 1,600 mobility pilots eligible to separate in the next four years.

The four-star received more than 700 responses from airmen, and one of the top suggestions was a flying-only career track.

Everhart said he’s seeking a small cadre of active-duty mobility pilots who are majors or major-selects with 11 to 13 years of commissioned service.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/07/20/so-you-wanna-fly-air-force-pilots-can-apply-to-new-aviation-only-program/