Le Network Aviation

[Jetstarpilot]

Word on the street sayz the Netwerk jocks are gunna speak Frenchois....

I'd be worried if I wuz a mainline jock right now...

[crosscutter]

Word on the street sayz the Netwerk jocks are gunna speak Frenchois....

I'd be worried if I wuz a mainline jock right now...

"Mainline" product at less than Jetstar operational costs. Don't be too smug. I don't think the QF industrial empire will discriminate.

[goodonyamate]

Why? Remember when link we’re getting jets ‘imminently’, jetconnect were ‘definitely’ going to be flying the 787 and 737 within oz, cobham were ‘getting a320’s’ and ejets...jetstar we’re going to be flying the 787 in qantas colours.....

They may well get something to replace the f100. They won’t be replacing mainline. Every time there is a new type each group puts a case together. It’s always gone on, it’s just that more info gets out there these days. If anyone was to be worried, It would be jetconnect and cobham crew...mainline are still recruiting, there will be more jets coming, and the 737 will be around for a long time yet. Of course ‘jetstarpilot’, this may not suit your agenda if indeed you are a jetstar pilot, still hanging on to that dream of being a jetstar captain, but making less than a mainline FO.

[Rated De]

Right on Que~



Read the Qantas annual report into the 'value' of the F100.



Why incur capex because they ordered too many A320 hand JQ model is saturated



The mining bust is on, the mining boom long since gone, so makes complete sense to add additional capacity! :)



Is there a mainline contract coming up soon? Panic the mainline group again, who will literally trip over themselves to give stuff up for the aircraft.



Cobham PIA is hurting them, so wheel in next favourite leverage group. Jetconnect is done, so Network it is, or maybe Qlink who knows!

As predictable as night follows day. It is the playbook nothing more. Against reduced and declining supply of pilots they have a big execution risk and they know it. Does not mean they will or won't do it, but their target is likely the domestic Qantas pilots.

Wash rinse and repeat!

[Angle of Attack]

They need something to replace the little fokker, they are ancient, nah there's no worries being a mainline pilot atm, it's promotion paradise! A little quieter on the Jetstar front though...

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

I reckon Cobham crew should be a lot more concerned than Mainline crew.

[Derfred]

If I worked for Qantas IR, and I had 717 PIA in action and a 737 EBA coming up, what would I do? Hmmm...

[ClearanceClarence1]

What would happen if short haul guys stopped working days off, stopped being flexible and helping the company while they are short of pilots?

[Rated De]

What would happen if short haul guys stopped working days off, stopped being flexible and helping the company while they are short of pilots? Stepping around secondary boycott provisions, personally let the HR/IR staff come and fly the things.


If I worked for Qantas IR, and I had 717 PIA in action and a 737 EBA coming up, what would I do? Hmmm...

Wash rinse and repeat...

When all they have is a hammer every problem a nail...

[yetanotherpilot]

Jetconnect is done

Care to elaborate?

[nefarious1]

Well the email today from the Qlink boss says it's happening. Busses for networklink.

[Keg]

Years ago a JQ management guy went to QLink. That supposedly confirmed that QLink was going to get A320s and variations on the theme. Seven years down the track?

Fast forward a bunch of years and Network have asked for EOIs from current crew who have Airbus experience. So it may happen, or it may be a fact finding mission, or it may be an IR ploy, or it may be a combination of the above. I just know from history that nothing is ever quite what it seems and Network crew should be cautious as to what this means over the coming years.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Jetstarpilot. Guess where the 2 Network A320's are coming from.

[Going Nowhere]

Keg,

The JQ guy who went to QLink is now at Network

[Angle of Attack]

That "JQ Guy" seems to pop up everywhere?!

[ANCDU]

Jetstarpilot. Guess where the 2 Network A320's are coming from.

True, coming from Jetstar, but from all accounts J* is so short of CP's and doing upgrades that they are struggling to crew flights during December.

I think the biggest threat is for us here. Here you will have a Qantas painted aircraft in the same class as the 738, with crew wearing Qantas uniforms, operating on routes that could operated by mainline aircraft and crew. Combine this with Jetconnect operating VH registered aircraft I think the concern here should be with us Mainline crew not Jetstar.

Thin edge of the wedge if you ask me, AIPA need to get on top of this quickly.

[nefarious1]

Quick, Group seniority anyone?

[airdualbleedfault]

Hang on you lot, I'll be back in a minute.
Just going to grab a big supply of popcorn :}

[ao767]

I'll get the butter!!🍿

[The Green Goblin]

It’s probably time for group seniority.

How it’d work. Who knows. But it’s time.

[Airbus A320321]

Are the aircraft supposed to be operated by Jetstar for Network in Qlink colours or are the A320s going to be given to and operated internally by Network. The email we got at JQ was a little ambiguous.

[73qanda]

Nope. They'll be in Jetstar colours operated by Jetconnect crew seconded to a mainline AOC supported by Network management under QLink control. I think the new CEO is from ASA?
Rostering will be done out of Saigon by Jetstar Pacific Ops controllers with a brand new EAP funded and manned by CAsA staff.
It'll be neat.

[Angle of Attack]

they will be painted in qlink colours just like the little fokkers

[Airbus A320321]

I'll simplify my question, Jetstar pilots or network pilots will be flying these planes?

[Jc31]

I'll simplify my question, Jetstar pilots or network pilots will be flying these planes?

Operated by network pilots

[Flava Saver]

2 ex Jetstar A320s. Operated by Network, dependent on regulatory approvals.

[Arewegettingjets]

It’s probably time for group seniority.

How it’d work. Who knows. But it’s time.

Will never happen. However, if it did it would create the biggest cluster f#$k any of us have ever seen.

Simplifying all fleets and lists makes sense but there are far too many separate interests.

Hypothetically if it were to happen. Have one list based on all pilots DOJ in the group. The musical chairs would be dabilitating! Training for 5+ years to re arrange the list.
Then, again IMO, 3 levels of pay.
1. Regional Turboprop
2. Domestic narrow body (B717, F100, A320, B738)
3. International wide body (B788/9, A332/3, B747, A380)

3 levels, ensures pilots STAY on type and aren't financially dis-advantaged for doing so. This saves massive retraining costs as pilots move up the seniority list now encompassing 4000+ staff.

But again, the chances? Rather than divide and conquer you control the pilot group as one entity. You 3 EBAs, 3 AOCs, 3 of MGMT rather than how many at present?

Just my thoughts.

[airdualbleedfault]

"promotion paradise", LMFAO, I guess when you're used to 15 years to command, 13 is pretty good

[Easie]

That happens now (has been for years), it’s just that it’s in a F100 or B717 currently ....🙄

And it’s happening more and more. Clearly that model works from a management perspective. That is what to fear for Qantas pilots.

Qantas domestic guys are paid by the flight hour. I would be nervous seeing any of those flight hours taken away.

[Willie Nelson]

Obviously many are concerned about the direction of this move by QF, who knows where it will end up. Nevertheless, as someone who has been flying the bus for some years now, you're going to love it. Such a great plane to fly, with many refinements over the years.

Enjoy!

[ExtraShot]

So, any talk of a bit of extra cheese for those in Network who will be flying the bus?

Or will the company insist that the Network Agreement covers anything and everything for the same Terms?

At the end of the day, it’s exciting to get a bit of new kit, but 6months after you check to line, the view is pretty much the same. It’s nice when the view of the bank balance changes a bit as well.

[kimbobimbo]

I bit of history for those who haven’t been around very long:

When the Fokker was introduced no single pilot was trained until they had signed a contract that included the F100. The t’s and c’s were clear from the start.

If you are trained on type with no clear idea of the t’s and c’s then there is no certain way of knowing what will happen in the future.

Ask questions and make absolutely certain you know where you stand. Either way seek advice from professionals in IR.

This is an exciting announcement but is VERY light on details. And it’s details that make all the difference.

As for me we’ll ill just sit under my glass ceiling looking up at the sky...

[Engineer_aus]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the WA government airfare investigation? Low fares to regional towns?

[knobbycobby]

Forecast to be over 800 retirements in QF Mainline alone in less than ten years.
With some massive waves of retirements due in some years.
In the past an economic shock always took care of a pilot shortage.
This one is different as so many people are leaving which puts pressure on supply that's also dwindling.
Starting to see the effects of that in many parts of the Qantas group that are used for lower cost labour.
Think the idea of this is to attempt to establish this ASAP whilst it's even possible and also to act as leverage for other awards that coincidentally are due for negotiation.

[jetlikespeeds]

Nope. They'll be in Jetstar colours operated by Jetconnect crew seconded to a mainline AOC supported by Network management under QLink control. I think the new CEO is from ASA?
Rostering will be done out of Saigon by Jetstar Pacific Ops controllers with a brand new EAP funded and manned by CAsA staff.
It'll be neat.

You forgot union approved FCOM’s written by Captain McSNAFU from Qlink Fleet Tech.

[Rated De]

This one is different as so many people are leaving which puts pressure on supply that's also dwindling.

The question is will they recognise anything other than a cyclical shortage?


Think the idea of this is to attempt to establish this ASAP whilst it's even possible and also to act as leverage for other awards that coincidentally are due for negotiation.

That is precisely what they are doing.

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtb n%3AANd9GcQL9JqdzaLfcWf-XEVR48HxjP7h7pAJSToJQMSIC05LjyVlcwgO&sp=676b676e61526c7f9cb97bbd47a30c2f&anticache=687893


to borrow from this guy, "place one A320 with Network pilots, terrorise 1,000 Qantas pilots'.



Establish the precedent.
Any economic downturn drive through concessions
Reactive labour representative body
Ever present threat (real or imagined) that pilots will lose flying.
works this time, every time

[Icarus2001]

Looks like the Cobham 717 pilots did not fall for it this time.

Could be a "game changer".

[Rated De]

The array of legislation, the power of corporate advertising and 'executive privilege' or the Chairman's lounge mean they control the narrative.

The problem for the model is declining supply. Having studied the various responses airlines have to obtaining a necessary component, almost a strategic asset is something which is both time consuming and varied.

The reality for the O'Leary, Hogg or Joyce is that their model is fatally flawed.

It will certainly take time but as the curtain recedes it is beginning to show that the emperor had no clothes..

[Icarus2001]

Rated De, you are very good at staying "on message" and I mostly agree with you.

However, in Europe they lack a GA to draw from and still manage crew their aircraft. Cadet schemes and deferred loans will be introduced. Virgin has already experimented with cadets. Qantas also to a greater degree.

Enter a slick and well run campaign aimed at attracting the brightest and the best to help change the game.

The machine must be fed.

[Rated De]

However, in Europe they lack a GA to draw from and still manage crew their aircraft. Cadet schemes and deferred loans will be introduced. Virgin has already experimented with cadets. Qantas also to a greater degree.Agree with you that is what is occurring, BA have reactivated 'subsidised' cadet training. They also recognised a demographic problem in the existing crew pool: median age was too high. Ryan Air make much of their 'recruiting' but contacts tell me the problem is not dissimilar: Demographic and experience levels.

The beast must be fed is absolutely correct, but the problem of their own making,is there is simply insufficient demand so incentives must be increased.

I would be watching the GA feed (reference the CASA annual report with respect to issuance of CPL and consider nationality of licence holder: hint not majority Australian) So if GA lacks candidates and regional airlines are feeding the majors the problem will begin to manifest firstly through GA (tick), then through regional network (tick) and finally the major carriers.

The question I would consider is if the major airlines in the USA and Europe have only recognised it in the more recent past and have sustained shortages, then, although late, Australia is likely to experience exactly the same phenomena as the demographic spread in the industry is almost 100% correlated.

[GoldCoastTobacconist]

Customer in store happened to mention the transfer is coming along with the airframes to initially do the all day waits at mine sites before the afternoon return to Perth. Has Network achieved their new EBA yet?

[Rated De]

Give Network an A320, spook 1000 Qantas pilots.

Same old!

[ebt]

Maybe - just maybe - there is a commercial reason for them to take A320s? I mean, the chief of Network also introduced them to Skywest when they were servicing the same major client. And maybe, just maybe, it will only be a couple of old, cheap frames that Network operates, mostly on charter. After all, in NW conditions the A320 outperforms the 738.

[The Green Goblin]

They’ll be flying the netlink operation before you can say bugger. Shortly after that theyll be taking over 717 ops bit by bit.

If I were on the street right now, I’d be going to network.

[27/09]

Give Network an A320, spook 1000 Qantas pilots.

Same old!

Don't ya love it when one outfit dominates the market like that.

[airdualbleedfault]

ebt, the "Chief" of Network is ex QF not XR.

[ebt]

Chief as in CEO, not CP, my friend

[airdualbleedfault]

Well I guess HD is technically still CEO although not for much longer

[puff]

Maybe - just maybe - there is a commercial reason for them to take A320s? I mean, the chief of Network also introduced them to Skywest when they were servicing the same major client. And maybe, just maybe, it will only be a couple of old, cheap frames that Network operates, mostly on charter. After all, in NW conditions the A320 outperforms the 738.

The big advantage of the A320 in WA is the fact that they have lower pressure tyre options than the 738. Some of these mine strips are quite low strength pavement.

[GoldCoastTobacconist]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tourism/qantas-slashes-fares-to-broome-to-lure-west-aussies-away-from-bali-ng-b88839805z

QANTAS has slashed the cost of airfares to Broome as part of a deal with the McGowan Government aimed at luring West Australians away from Bali.

Under the arrangement, Qantas will use a 180-seat Airbus A320, which normally runs fly-in, fly-out services to mine sites but is idle from Friday to Sunday. It will operate daily flights to Broome with a $179 one-way fare in the off season, and $199 in peak season.

While the State Government would not provide details of the deal it is contributing to the low fares through Tourism WA support. The fare deal is in response to government pressure for industry partners to offer competitive airfares on intrastate routes to counter the flood of WA holiday makers to Bali.

More than 400,000 WA residents fly to Bali each year.

Over the 12-month trial, 29,400 discounted seats will be available.

Qantas 787 breaks another speed record (https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qantas-787-breaks-another-speed-record/)

The initiative will offer two ranges of airfare discounts, when booked either 60 days or 45 days before travel.

Tourism Minister Paul Papalia said this was “easily the biggest thing done for Broome by any State government.”

“The aim of this initiative is to provide affordable fares throughout the year to help stimulate leisure travel to Broome and the Kimberley,” he said.

“We hope it will encourage people to escape to Broome for a weekend getaway, or vice versa, or to plan a longer one to two-week stay and it is a higher quality offering than Bali.”

Mr Papalia said that he wanted to see Broome businesses respond and work with Qantas to offer innovative packages.

“Qantas has been responded incredibly well to the cost of travel to make this happen and I would encourage other airlines to follow,” he said.

Premier Mark McGowan said “providing more affordable flights for residents and tourists is a key part of our new tourism two-year action plan, to make sure people from Perth, interstate and overseas have the opportunity to access all of what our great State has to offer.”

Qantas group executive of government, industry and international affairs Andrew Parker said"this is a new opportunity that makes good use of aircraft that would otherwise be on the ground over the weekend.”

“It will help us deliver great value for travellers, stimulating tourism and driving new business opportunities for Broome and the Kimberley region,” said Mr Parker


More work ....

[Street garbage]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tourism/qantas-slashes-fares-to-broome-to-lure-west-aussies-away-from-bali-ng-b88839805z



More work ....
Or less work, depending on which a/c you fly...

[Rated De]

Or less work, depending on which a/c you fly...

Completely, exactly as designed. Qantas households in the west discussing the threat. We suggested was the case on the other thread; rapid expansion of entity (despite the crew shortage). Is it contract season?

Even heard a story of 'comfort' offered by the union effectively leaving the door ajar for Qantas to further leverage the 'subsidiaries'

[ChaseIt]

Will never happen. However, if it did it would create the biggest cluster f#$k any of us have ever seen.

Simplifying all fleets and lists makes sense but there are far too many separate interests.

Hypothetically if it were to happen. Have one list based on all pilots DOJ in the group. The musical chairs would be dabilitating! Training for 5+ years to re arrange the list.
Then, again IMO, 3 levels of pay.
1. Regional Turboprop
2. Domestic narrow body (B717, F100, A320, B738)
3. International wide body (B788/9, A332/3, B747, A380)

3 levels, ensures pilots STAY on type and aren't financially dis-advantaged for doing so. This saves massive retraining costs as pilots move up the seniority list now encompassing 4000+ staff.

But again, the chances? Rather than divide and conquer you control the pilot group as one entity. You 3 EBAs, 3 AOCs, 3 of MGMT rather than how many at present?

Just my thoughts.


Pay idea sounds resonable however DOJ would create problems ie someone on narrow body probably wouldn’t want to be kicked back to turbo prop...

Maybe pay levels like you mention and then DOJ to work out the numbers on that pay level...

where was that popcorn 😆

[StudentInDebt]

DOJ doesn’t need to cause a problem, just grandfather existing seat/fleet positions so no one is displaced. Training freeze of 5 years except where the company needs to waive it would stop multiple type ratings over short periods of time

[Icarus2001]

1. Regional Turboprop
2. Domestic narrow body (B717, F100, A320, B738)
3. International wide body (B788/9, A332/3, B747, A380)

Domestic wide body and international narrow body?

[puff]

They haven't managed to merge the 2 lists of EAA and Sunnies...let alone the whole group operation!!