KLM looking for pilots

[fox niner]

Starting december 4, there will be a two week window of opportunity to apply for a pilot job at KLM. KLM needs quite a few pilots, and their flight academy is unable to provide enough new candidates the coming months.
There are no drawbacks, ifs or buts.
-permanent contract, the same as everyone else
-therefore no chance of a commuting contract or other exeptions
-no b-scale, we don’t have that
-placement at the bottom of the seniority list
-EU passport required (or swiss/norway/etc)
-english LPE level 6 + requirement to learn dutch eventually.
-being at the bottom of the list, expect to start as a cruise relief pilot on the intercontinental fleet.

[DND delivery]

-english LPE level 6 + requirement to learn dutch eventually.


I haven’t seen the requirements just yet, however I would be very surprised if fluency in Dutch wasn’t one of them. I suppose like in the past they’ll look for a mix of ex NL Air Force and experienced guys with a training background in the Netherlands (NLS- if they still exist, EPST, Martinair flight academy).

[lexxie747]

exactly how many martinair boys were forced to find other pastures,in spite of being fully qualified and operational?
thanks to the fine VNV members.....

[Intrance]

I'm not too familiar with the internal structure of KLM, so if I may ask, how long could you expect to be an SO before moving over to something like FO Cityhopper?

Could be an interesting small opportunity to go 'home' but on the other hand going from left seat to relief seat for years, does not appeal too much.

[Doppio]

Unbelievable; First the VNV KLM Union forced hundreds of Martinair pilots out of the country after destroying their career and pension, declaring that in 48hrs of looking they couldn't find a place for any of them within the AF-KLM family... and now KLM is hiring? What a hit-job...

[fox niner]

I'm not too familiar with the internal structure of KLM, so if I may ask, how long could you expect to be an SO before moving over to something like FO Cityhopper?.

+/- 2 years. Salary for an SO is exactly the same as an FO with the same seniority. That is why most people stay a while longer as an SO. Your choice.

VNV......Martinair.....etc

Ah come on. You know that it didn’t happen like that. This is a recruitment opportunity. If you would like to re-start the SCB and Martinair self destruction discussion: go right ahead in another thread.

[the_stranger]

Unbelievable; First the VNV KLM Union forced hundreds of Martinair pilots out of the country after destroying their career and pension, declaring that in 48hrs of looking they couldn't find a place for any of them within the AF-KLM family... and now KLM is hiring? What a hit-job...

Not this again.... Either you are/were a party in the whole screwup and know what you're saying isn't entirely correct, or you aren't a party and are wrongly informed.

[Street]

I'm not too familiar with the internal structure of KLM, so if I may ask, how long could you expect to be an SO before moving over to something like FO Cityhopper?


Almost 3 years

[Street]

The VNV made a mess out of the Martinair debacle.

However it is a good thing KLM is opening doors. Quite a few suitable candidates in the market. It is not only KLM Flight Academy students who qualify as pilots ;)

[DND delivery]

I'm not too familiar with the internal structure of KLM, so if I may ask, how long could you expect to be an SO before moving over to something like FO Cityhopper?

It varies quite a bit. Back during the financial crisis years where there was very little movement it could be 3 or 4 years or maybe even more. However around 2014 it’s been as short as 1 year. As quoted above 2 is probably around average.

[Track]

Get in line behind 100+ eager Transavia F/O's who will probably be considered first....

[Falck]

Track

I doubt it. Transavia is a 100% KLM company. KLM will shoot in their own
feet.
KLM looks at pilots from their own flightschool or NLS (current CAE)
or the Dutch Navy or Airforce.
A lot of former NLS pilots went ito RyanAir. Also easyJet and TUI Netherlands.

What about all ex-Martinair pilots? They spread out all over the world.
I hope some of them will land a job at KLM.

Curious though.

[Hurdle]

But would it only be people with background from NLS/EPST and airforce? Or would they include also the others like DFA,Stella etc? I guess once someone is experienced the academy doenst matter annymore. More info from inside about this?

[Falck]

Hurdle,

Don't know from the inside. But that's what KLM wants. It is very rare that they
take somebody from outside these flightschools or MLD,KLU.

Remember some people from epst went in a couple of years ago. They had to finance their own B737 sim bridgecourse with KLM sops. Than the interview with the risk of failing.
Having said that. They try to streamline the Martinair flightschool into a KLS/KLM fit as well.

So perhaps pure speculation some people from there as well. The article said that it will be open from the 4th of December for 2 weeks.

Good luck

[PENKO]

Falck. In the last twenty years there were three recruitment drives. Every times there were vastly different requirements regarding background. I do not think you can extrapolate anything from that. Let's wait and see. Anyway, unless they change their strict seniority rules it will be difficult for some to apply.

[Reverserbucket]

The NLS is no longer - bought by CAE some years ago and now part of the CAE Oxford Aviation Academy who I understand KLS used to subcontract a proportion of CPL/IR training to in the U.S. until a nasty fatal and midair shortly thereafter lead to cessation of that working agreement. I believe KLS use Lufthansa's fair weather facility now under a similar arrangement. The NLS was yet another highly respected quality school that is no longer with us.

[Primary Governor]

https://www.klm.com/jobs/en/werken_in_de_lucht/piloot/ervaren_vliegers/ervaren_vliegers.html

[Reverserbucket]

Interesting that they mention NLS in that link - I wonder if they mean this is open to graduates of the NLS from before the name change to CAE OAA Amsterdam?

[Falck]

I think it is not updated. It could have been on the KLM-site for a long time already.

We will see

[testpanel]

Since when do i have to put on my CV my (flight) training as experience?:ugh:

Ervaring
- Afgestudeerd aan de KLS, NLS, CAE (Oxford) of EPST

[parabellum]

They want to know where you are coming from, what to expect.

Some time ago the Dutch work permit required the candidate to pass an exam in the Dutch language by 18 months after issue.

[Intrance]

I have flown with FOs from all those schools and to say they maintain some magical high standard is a bit of a reach... it's just another random stage of filtering the hundreds if not thousands of applications. Idiots can fail their way through all of those schools ;).

[747 forever]

+/- 2 years. Salary for an SO is exactly the same as an FO with the same seniority. That is why most people stay a while longer as an SO. Your choice.



Ah come on. You know that it didn’t happen like that. This is a recruitment opportunity. If you would like to re-start the SCB and Martinair self destruction discussion: go right ahead in another thread.

Do most SOs transition onto the Cityhopper fleet to become FOs or do some stay as SOs on the intercontinental fleet until they can become an FO there?

[PENKO]

What would the pay be for the next say, ten years, for someone in his thirties, assuming normal career progression?

(if they even hire such old pilots :), nothing surprises me in the NL-aviation scene )

[Long Haul]

Do most SOs transition onto the Cityhopper fleet to become FOs or do some stay as SOs on the intercontinental fleet until they can become an FO there?

Yes, and yes. Most SOs become FOs on the Embraer or B737, and some (a few) who already have had flying jobs before wait until they can become FOs on one of the intercontinental aircraft. That’s currently about ten years seniority to hold.

[Long Haul]

What would the pay be for the next say, ten years, for someone in his thirties, assuming normal career progression?

(if they even hire such old pilots :), nothing surprises me in the NL-aviation scene )

You would start at about €65K, and end up at about 150K, if you were able to become a long haul copilot within 10 yrs.

[Airdancer]

Currently residing in the ME3, 27 years old with a bond for 2 years to come. KLM always a dream but now thinking about the financial cut as I have no clue what starting at KLM will earn me roughly per month.

It's a huge step back from 777/787 RHS to a SO but it's KLM or am I lieing to myself. Anyone from KLM care to chat with me?

[PENKO]

You would start at about €65K, and end up at about 150K, if you were able to become a long haul copilot within 10 yrs.

Ok, so after ten years I would be more or less back at where I am now.... I thought it would be worse. Thanks for the info. Any more info would be appreciated, like an exact calculation of pay. I saw a formula ages ago..

[Burpbot]

So any opportunity for non Dutch nationals? ��

[DND delivery]

Ok, so after ten years I would be more or less back at where I am now.... I thought it would be worse. Thanks for the info. Any more info would be appreciated, like an exact calculation of pay. I saw a formula ages ago..

See link in post above. On joining you'll probably be around number 2900 on the seniority list. The other details you can fill in yourself.

[Airdancer]

You can check the salary here: KLM Salaris berekening[/url]

Thanks! The % on the right I assume are for tax?

[Long Haul]

the amounts are all before tax. if you see a % sign it is an indication of what you would receive while working at a reduced production rate (i.e. part-time), which is available after five years or if you have kids.

[Airdancer]

Ok makes sense. Thank you for your help. Makes the dilemma a bit less

[DND delivery]

The vacancy has now been added to the KLM jobsite for online applications.

[Knee Trembler]

The salary figures make interesting reading. They don't seem to have changed significantly since the last tables I saw in 2006! This seems to echo a trend in all the flag carriers, where pilots are working harder and trading ever more benefits in order to keep the top line salary.

Very interesting to compare the 737 Capts with Ryanair's new offer. I suspect that a few people at FR might be more willing to accept the new deal after seeing that, but let's not go there.

[Giedo]

I wish the Dutch was not a requirement to apply in KLM Flight Academy, only to learn dutch eventually. We, the non-Dutch people deserve a chance :)

[EDDT]

No, the language requirement is perfectly alright.
I don't want to communicate with my colleagues in a third language, which is not my mother tongue.

And I haven't heard of any airline in Spain or South America, not demanding a perfect Spanish Level 6.

[reivilo]

:confused: There are quite a number of pilots in KLM that don't speak any Dutch... As all Dutch speak English, I don't see what's the big deal?

[Giedo]

No, the language requirement is perfectly alright.
I don't want to communicate with my colleagues in a third language, which is not my mother tongue.

And I haven't heard of any airline in Spain or South America, not demanding a perfect Spanish Level 6.

You could comunicate in English :)

:confused: There are quite a number of pilots in KLM that don't speak any Dutch... As all Dutch speak English, I don't see what's the big deal?

That´s true , I don´t see any problem as long as they commit to learn Dutch, but we have to settle for what there is. :ugh:

[RAT 5]

It was the case some years ago that dutch speaking was used as a filter when they had more applications than vacancies. If they are seeking pilots outside NL it might suggest there is not enough home supply. I heard from mates some time ago that, surprisingly, many dutch pilots from other local airlines were rejected. No idea what their standards are, but these guys did;t get to interview. They also had some very strict 'union imposed' age restrictions, but once the supply dried up that was relaxed. They do things their way, as does LH, IB, AZ etc.

[300-600]

Their standards are high. We have inherited a load of guys KLM forced to retire early. I believe the company has now raised the retirement age again (but there is no way back for those who have already started drawing their unbelievably high pension).

[DND delivery]

For any Dutch speakers lurking around out there, KLM have opened up recruitment again for people with 500 hours jet time. See; https://careers.klm.com/jobs/947/Verkeersvlieger

They’re looking to take on around 400 new pilots in 2019.

[Piscator]

Their standards are high. We have inherited a load of guys KLM forced to retire early. I believe the company has now raised the retirement age again (but there is no way back for those who have already started drawing their unbelievably high pension).
Thank you ;)

No one is forced to retire early at KLM
Retirement age was 56 at 100% and 58 at 80% etc
As of 2015 its 58 at 100%
Pension is high yes, but due to fiscal changes, not so good for the new generation.

[David1991]

Dont see anything on their Site

[DND delivery]

Dont see anything on their Site

https://careers.klm.com/jobs/1854/Verkeersvlieger

The vacancy is currently open for an extended period. If you look at the “Algemeen” section it states that a good knowledge of Dutch is required. It also says if you’re not fluent you have to take an exam at “European reference level B2” before starting the selection procedure.

[michaela74]

You have to speak Dutch. There is a few pilots in KLM that don’t speak Dutch but most of those are ex KLM UK who managed to get KLM contracts.

[BluSdUp]

The Old Guard leaving with good pension, making room for young and not so young.
That is the principle the Union Deal is all about.
The past is the past. Get over it.

The fact is that there is finally great movement into pension in most Flag Carrier, or real Airlines with proper deals.
Not like the old days, but better then most LOCOs.

With regards to Dutch being required I personally know more then 10 Norwegians that started in KLM with no dutch language skill.
They were better pilots then the Dutch, mind You, and hence were hired.
I have also done a few dozen MCC courses with Dutch F16 and heli crew some time ago, good crew. And brilliant at pilot incapasitation , with Emergency Return.
You all send in an application and quit moaning!
You will all make the left side soon , as the majority of the Captains have retired in 7 to 10 years. ( Math Boys, must study it!)
Pass the test , then You have a choice.
Good Luck to all.
Regards
Cpt B

[3Greens]

The Old Guard leaving with good pension, making room for young and not so young.
That is the principle the Union Deal is all about.
The past is the past. Get over it.

The fact is that there is finally great movement into pension in most Flag Carrier, or real Airlines with proper deals.
Not like the old days, but better then most LOCOs.

With regards to Dutch being required I personally know more then 10 Norwegians that started in KLM with no dutch language skill.
They were better pilots then the Dutch, mind You, and hence were hired.
I have also done a few dozen MCC courses with Dutch F16 and heli crew some time ago, good crew. And brilliant at pilot incapasitation , with Emergency Return.
You all send in an application and quit moaning!
You will all make the left side soon , as the majority of the Captains have retired in 7 to 10 years. ( Math Boys, must study it!)
Pass the test , then You have a choice.
Good Luck to all.
Regards
Cpt B
What a Strange way to write a post. Do you purposely mean to write in such an adult>child manner? I sincerely trust you run those MCC courses in a differant way ( ironic that you decided a pilot incap drill and emergency return is the way to determine a good pilot on M(ulti) C(rew) C(operation) course).

[Hank Moody]

-everyone who has been hired for the last five years can communicate in Dutch.
-pension is still great, don’t know any other company who pays 40%+ pension contribution based on gross earnings.
-the word on the street is we need 100-200 for 2020. But Schiphol has reached it limit. So KLM doesn’t control the grow on it own anymore.

[flyzed]

The Old Guard leaving with good pension, making room for young and not so young.
That is the principle the Union Deal is all about.
The past is the past. Get over it.

The fact is that there is finally great movement into pension in most Flag Carrier, or real Airlines with proper deals.
Not like the old days, but better then most LOCOs.

With regards to Dutch being required I personally know more then 10 Norwegians that started in KLM with no dutch language skill.
They were better pilots then the Dutch, mind You, and hence were hired.
I have also done a few dozen MCC courses with Dutch F16 and heli crew some time ago, good crew. And brilliant at pilot incapasitation , with Emergency Return.
You all send in an application and quit moaning!
You will all make the left side soon , as the majority of the Captains have retired in 7 to 10 years. ( Math Boys, must study it!)
Pass the test , then You have a choice.
Good Luck to all.
Regards
Cpt B
Thank you Cpt B!

[Tom737]

Hi everyone,

I am thinking about improving my dutch and applying at KLM. Is there a real chance for foreigners to join or are they mostly looking for nationals?

Did my flighttraining with Swiss with a total of around 4000h on the A320 ans B737, so that should be fine.

Best regards 😃

[Sunrig]

Hi everyone,

I am thinking about improving my dutch and applying at KLM. Is there a real chance for foreigners to join or are they mostly looking for nationals?

Did my flighttraining with Swiss with a total of around 4000h on the A320 ans B737, so that should be fine.

Best regards 😃


You can always try, but I know a couple of very experienced Dutch First Officers who got the PFO because they hadn’t trained at the KLM flightschool. Good luck!

[NLP]

There are loads of guys who recently joined KLM and dit not come from the KLM flightschool, including me. I haven't heard from anyone that they had a tough time initially. I've flown for 2 other airlines before and must say that life at KLM is pretty relaxed. Speaking Dutch is a necessity though since the common tongue at work is Dutch.

Good luck with the Dutch lessons!

[Tom737]

Thanks for the replies guys!
I will give it a try. Are there rumors about the pilot demand in 2020 at KLM and have they already found enough candidates for 2019?

Best regards 😃

[sekmeth]

Thanks for the replies guys!
I will give it a try. Are there rumors about the pilot demand in 2020 at KLM and have they already found enough candidates for 2019?

Best regards 😃
assessments for 2019 are still running. For 2020 mixed signals, some say only from KLM flight academy, others say that the target hiring for 2019 will not be met, and that 2020 will see a recruitment drive like in 2019

[dcoded]

Hi all

I am currently in an old legacy up in the north, but with the constant threat of outsourcing and downsizing I am thinking about bailing out.

What's the current situation at KLM? Will there be any more recruitment in the near future?
Just to clarify, is there a requirement to speak Dutch prior to joining KLM?
Looking through this thread some people say its absolutely mandatory while others know of people who got in without knowing Dutch but with the requirement to learn it eventually.

Thankful for any info.
PMs are appreciated also.

[Hank Moody]

Hi all

I am currently in an old legacy up in the north, but with the constant threat of outsourcing and downsizing I am thinking about bailing out.

What's the current situation at KLM? Will there be any more recruitment in the near future?
Just to clarify, is there a requirement to speak Dutch prior to joining KLM?
Looking through this thread some people say its absolutely mandatory while others know of people who got in without knowing Dutch but with the requirement to learn it eventually.

Thankful for any info.
PMs are appreciated also.


-number for 2020 was around 150-200. Around 60 would be from own flightschool.
-at the moment recruitment is on hold due to the virus. Since there are less flights due to the virus, all the slots are used for fleet movement.
-currently Dutch is a must!, the entire recruitment is in dutch. we do have some pilots who only speaks english, those where due to mergers in the past.
-long term recruitment depends on expansion of schiphol.
-and how much air france is growing, because we are only allowed to expand if they do.

[ctacik]

KLM is hiring pilots for 2023 https://careers.klm.com/KLM/job/Schiphol-Centrum-Verkeersvlieger-2023/762238302/
They ask for 500 hours on aircraft above 5,7 tones and 150 hours in the last 12 months.
Does anyone knows the assessment procedure?

[ctacik]

-number for 2020 was around 150-200. Around 60 would be from own flightschool.
-at the moment recruitment is on hold due to the virus. Since there are less flights due to the virus, all the slots are used for fleet movement.
-currently Dutch is a must!, the entire recruitment is in dutch. we do have some pilots who only speaks english, those where due to mergers in the past.
-long term recruitment depends on expansion of schiphol.
-and how much air france is growing, because we are only allowed to expand if they do.
Do you have any numbers for 2023 recruitment or when the assessments will start?

[DND delivery]

Do you have any numbers for 2023 recruitment or when the assessments will start?

For the coming years KLM expects the need to recruit around 80-100 new pilots a year to cover retirements. The flight school produces around 60 a year which means that roughly 20-40 external hires will be needed annually.

Obviously it’ll fluctuate a bit year to year. In slow years they might not need any external recruitment, and in other years when they’re scrambling to get their crewing levels to where they should be it could be a lot more.

As for when the assessments will start I’m not sure. The vacancy is open till the beginning of March and then they’ll need to process everything so I would guess around late spring/early summer…

[zen krempie]

Good morning.
Has anyone been invited for interview on the ongoing recruitment?

[josk]

Yes some people were called.
No known start date after a positive evaluation.

[dcoded]

Hi,

I recently heard rumors from people involved in the recruitment at KLM that they most probably are going to remove the Dutch language requirement since they require a vast amount of pilots for the next couple of years (excess of 400 even in the most pessimistic Schipol restrictions scenario)

Have anyone heard something similar?