Airbus Loses Emirates deal

[RodH]

From the ABC Australian news a short time ago.
Long-haul carrier Emirates has purchased 40 American-made Boeing 787-10 Dreamliners at the start of the biennial Dubai Air Show, a $US15.1 billion ($19.7 billion) deal certain to please US President Donald Trump who has touted the plane's sales as a job creator in America.

The deal appeared to surprise Boeing's archrival Airbus, whose staff had attended a long-delayed news conference and left the room just moments before the announcement.

Airbus has pinned hopes of continuing production of its double-decker jumbo jet on Emirates, the world's largest operator of the aircraft which took delivery of its 100th A380 earlier this month.

Reports circulated before the air show that a major A380 sale would be coming.

But instead, Emirates CEO and chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum explained how the airline considered the Airbus A350 and decided to pick the Boeing 787-10.

"We were comparing the two apples," he said, but found that the Boeing 787 is "the best option" for Emirates "given its maintenance and so on".

It is the second time Airbus has lost out on selling the A350 to Emirates.

[lomapaseo]

So what was it?

a large 4 engine airplane ala the A380 vs a much smaller airplane like a A350 or b787 OR was it a competition between two mid size airplanes the A350 and B787?

Is there more to come in announcements from Emirates of even more buys?

[ironbutt57]

Stories floating around EK is trying to arrange some "promise to buy back" from Airbus before they sign any deal for the 380, seems the market for "pre-owned" 380's isn't as strong as one might hope for

[Andy_S]

My understanding is that it was a straight competition between the 787 and the A350. The A380 issue is unrelated.

As Ironbutt says, it appears that any A380 order from Emirates will linked to Airbus buying back the old A380’s from Emirates, negotiations on the terms of which are still ongoing with no guarantee of a successful outcome.

I see Azerbaijan Airlines also placed an order for several 787’s. Not a particularly good day for Airbus.

[barry lloyd]

This is just Boeing making a big fuss about winning a deal - fair enough. It was probably signed weeks ago and kept under wraps until the show; it's standard practice in the the industry. Airbus will have known weeks ago that they weren't going to win that particular deal.

We are talking about apples and pears here. Chances are that the talks about the A380s are ongoing and may not be completed until after the show. Not what Airbus would want, but that's show business!

[Less Hair]

No surprise they still negotiate the A380 deal. This is the very big buyer's moment of strength. A big show running, time passing, competitors getting their orders and the media reporting everything online. Now you can ask for your last minute goodies and rebates. Want some spare engines? Crew training on top? Sharklets for free?
The big topics will be agreed to well in advance.
I see it coming.

[TURIN]

I thought the A350 was/is a competitor for the B777. If going by size alone the 787-8/9 are significantly smaller. Not seen a -10 yet and I don't know the specs.

[Heathrow Harry]

Also of course politically necessary to try and stem the chorus of "Gulf Airlines are all subsidised" from US carriers..................

[bvcu]

Look at the facts , no order yet , but 'commitments'.................

[Metro man]

The B787 would open up routes not suited to the B777. Only having A380 and B777 available meant many airports were missed out of the network. A middle of the market and a narrow body fleet would enable virtually world wide coverage.

Other hub and spoke airlines such as Turkish and Qatar have more versatile fleets.

[Heathrow Harry]

they could just take out Fly Dubai.......................

[AndoniP]

The B787 would open up routes not suited to the B777. Only having A380 and B777 available meant many airports were missed out of the network. A middle of the market and a narrow body fleet would enable virtually world wide coverage.

Other hub and spoke airlines such as Turkish and Qatar have more versatile fleets.



Would that not impact FlyDubai's business?

[Metro man]

Already being talked about in other threads but would require work to transform a low cost into full service with business and possibly first class.

[Hansol]

The Air Show is not over yet!

[pilotguy1222]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/emirates-puts-pressure-on-airbus-to-commit-to-ailing-a380-jumbo

The title to this thread is completely inaccurate. This was not a "one or the other" situation. TC wants both. He knows EK needs something smaller than 777s but he still wants more 380s as well.
I would have posted yesterday, but I don't come into the R & N often.

[Sailvi767]

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai wants a guarantee that Airbus (AIR.PA) will keep production of the A380 superjumbo open for at least 10 years before state-owned Emirates places a new order for the world's largest jetliner, the airline's president said on Monday.

It's interesting that the state is making demands on Airbus before it allows the airline to make a purchase.

[Less Hair]

They depend on future and long time A380 availability and have already changed their engine manufacturer.

[G-CPTN]

DUBAI (Reuters) - Dubai wants a guarantee that Airbus (AIR.PA) will keep production of the A380 superjumbo open for at least 10 years before state-owned Emirates places a new order for the world's largest jetliner.

If the (other) airlines don't want to buy the A380, I doubt that Airbus will keep it in production just for Emirates.

There is, apparently, at least one A380 sitting (https://aviationvoice.com/first-singapore-airlines-airbus-a380-now-in-storage-2-201711141054/) (with the engines removed) as nobody wants to take it on.

[DaveReidUK]

That one (MSN 003) is one of the two that Hi Fly are supposedly taking on.

[Heathrow Harry]

well Flight pointed out that the 747 took 11 years production to reach the current order backlog for teh 380..............

[Pizzacake]

Pretty sure the 430 a320 neos’ just sold will offset this nicely.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

If the (other) airlines don't want to buy the A380, I doubt that Airbus will keep it in production just for Emirates.

There is, apparently, at least one A380 sitting (https://aviationvoice.com/first-singapore-airlines-airbus-a380-now-in-storage-2-201711141054/) (with the engines removed) as nobody wants to take it on.

Blimey - they've removed the engines with commendable speed - it only flew in to Tarbes two days ago. :ooh:

[DaveReidUK]

According to Flight, Rolls-Royce are leasing back the engines of the four SIA A380s that are in the process of being returned to the German lessor, to support other RR A380 operators.

[KenV]

Airbus was expected to announce a big sale of A380's to Emirates during the Dubai airshow. Such a sale was described as crucial to keeping the line going. But instead, Emirates announced the purchase of 40 Dreamliners from rival Boeing. The A380 is a superb aircraft, but it clearly fills a small niche in the airliner market. Is that niche shrinking and does this mark the beginning of the end for A380?

More details here (http://www.businessinsider.com/emirates-airbus-a380-order-dubai-air-show-boeing-2017-10).

[Hotel Tango]

I thought it was a case of the A350 v the B787.

[ChimneySweep]

Accordıng to the Beeb the B787 order was expected to be along side the A380 order, not instead of it.

[cornishsimon]

Suspect EK will still order vast amounts more A380s. It’s just a matter of time.

Also regardless of any 2nd hand purchases I can still see IAG adding A380s. For IAG I suspect it’s all about the numbers. Once Airbus offer the right numbers the order will come.