A380 retired

[Simplythebeast]

Singapore Airlines have retired Its first A380 (reg. 9V-SKA) and will store it in France next week. Seems a bit early at just ten years?

[no_one]

How many hours does it have? Some of the long haul airframes clock up some big hours over a 10 year period....

More economical to sell it off to another carrier and get a new one....

[Chris2303]

It was apparently the third test airframe but I can't locate the reference

[ahmetdouas]

Didn't the lease expire after 10 years?

[Metro man]

SIA are known for keeping a young fleet, their latest orders will see an average age of a little over 7 years for their aircraft. At 10 years old this one was past it by their standards.

New aircraft are more appealing to passengers, require less maintenance and are more fuel efficient.

[ZFT]

SIA are known for keeping a young fleet, their latest orders will see an average age of a little over 7 years for their aircraft. At 10 years old this one was past it by their standards.

New aircraft are more appealing to passengers, require less maintenance and are more fuel efficient.

How would the average pax know the age of an aircraft?

[goeasy]

because they look shiny and smell new..... how do you tell a new car when you're in one?

they always said this one would be retired earlier due to test history etc.

[The Old Swedish]

How would the average pax know the age of an aircraft?

Exactly, the average pax can burn to death in an aircraft of any age.

[Webby737]

because they look shiny and smell new..... how do you tell a new car when you're in one?

they always said this one would be retired earlier due to test history etc.

Slap on a new paint job and refresh the interior and your average Pax would never know the difference.
I remember many years ago whilst flying out of SNN to LHR with Aer Lingus , I overhead a conversation between two pax saying they were glad they were not flying on that old thing pointing to the EIN B734 that was looking a little rough around the edges. The two pax in question were flying on an ancient EAL/AB Shannon BAC 1-11, but it did have nice, shiny paintwork :)

[-JLS-]

I'm pretty sure SKB has already been parked too. Last I heard is that HiFly want them? Or if not these two, some other soon to be ex-SQ A380s.

[ZFT]

because they look shiny and smell new..... how do you tell a new car when you're in one?

they always said this one would be retired earlier due to test history etc.

Was in an immaculate Lufthansa B744 recently that both looked and smelled new. It was most certainly wasn't. The average pax has no idea and looks are not indicative of age.

Cars are not aircraft.

[Wycombe]

There is a 737-200 that frequents Lasham on a regular basis that looks absolutely immaculate.

[chevvron]

Singapore Airlines have retired Its first A380 (reg. 9V-SKA) and will store it in France next week. Seems a bit early at just ten years?

Fer chris' sake don't tell Michael O'Leary. Just think of the number of seats he would put in at £9.99p each.(carry on luggage only) and he would still get a full load to/from New York.

[tdracer]

Was in an immaculate Lufthansa B744 recently that both looked and smelled new.
Are you sure it was a 747-400? Lufthansa picked up 19 747-8 in the last few years and they don't look all that much different...


As noted previously, Singapore likes to keep a young fleet, and frequently gets rid of aircraft when they come up for 'D' checks.
Are Singapore's A380's leased? if so the lease is probably up and they simply walked away...

[Metro man]

Airlines which operated young aircraft, emphasise this in their advertising. Pictures of the interior are shown and features such as wifi and inflight entertainment highlighted.

Increased passenger comfort from a lower pressurisation level and greater humidity, with less noise and vibration were a major selling point for the B787.

Passengers willing to spend a bit more are likely to respond by purchasing tickets based on the experience rather than the price.

Airlines operating 25 year old B767s and MD80s concentrate on other aspects such as price or a comprehensive route network.

Low cost airlines prefer newer aircraft from the efficiency and reliability point of view, passenger experience is well down the list and little money is spent in this area, the desire being to keep costs as low as possible.

[ZFT]

Are you sure it was a 747-400? Lufthansa picked up 19 747-8 in the last few years and they don't look all that much different...


As noted previously, Singapore likes to keep a young fleet, and frequently gets rid of aircraft when they come up for 'D' checks.
Are Singapore's A380's leased? if so the lease is probably up and they simply walked away...

I'm positive. Was MSN 29493

[rjtjrt]

..........
Are Singapore's A380's leased? if so the lease is probably up and they simply walked away...

Seems this one is/was leased, from a leasing entity called "Dr Peters Group".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-a380/first-airbus-a380-parked-amid-search-for-new-operator-idUSKCN1B421M

[B2N2]

Long haul ship 16hrs/day.
20 days a month on average.
For 10 years is almost 40,000hrs airframe plus whatever ( fatigue) testing may have been done.

[wiggy]

Some of the long haul airframes clock up some big hours over a 10 year period....

TBH until recently a ten year old Longhaul airframe would in the eyes of many be regarded as only just "run in", and compared to it's short haul brethren would have diddly squat cycles - though I accept the specific airframe in question here may have issues due to it's previous time at Blagnac.

As others have said there are plenty of high hours machines around, the trick is keeping them in good condition from a passnger POV.

[Jet II]

More to the point, there is no second hand market for used A380's.

[B2N2]

More to the point, there is no second hand market for used A380's.

Hehehehehe....ouch :ouch:

[atakacs]

What engines does it have?

[B2N2]

What engines does it have?

Jet engines I believe...

[tdracer]

According to the Singapore Airlines website they have Trent powered A380's.

[maggot]

Yeap they have Trent's
Also the first off the production line were a fair. It heavier than the latest - the newer ones EK have at 575t burn a bit less according to a friend there.

[atakacs]

According to the Singapore Airlines website they have Trent powered A380's.

Thanks. Could not locate this info. So not an option to ship one to Goose Bay...

[The AvgasDinosaur]

More to the point, there is no second hand market for used A380's.

Yet ?
Be lucky
David

[Jet II]

Yet ?
Be lucky
David

well there isnt any great market for new 380's either :E

[Denti]

Wasn't it Willy Walsh who was commenting that he would be interested in used A380s as new ones were too expensive? Apparently they do work really well on slot restricted airports.

[slip and turn]

Singapore Airlines have retired Its first A380 (reg. 9V-SKA) and will store it in France next week. ...Yep, it'll be there this afternoon already (https://www.flightradar24.com/SIA8898).

[falcon12]

More to the point, there is no second hand market for used A380's.

10 years old, 40,000 odd hours so far. The consider these are the problems anyone faces:
Existing structural and mechanical damage, Interior refit, updating the IFE and Avionics plus many life'd items due before 12 years is up, e.g a ship set of landing gears.
Add that lot up and added to the cost of buying it in the first place, I doubt if you will have a viable aircraft going forward.

And that's all before factoring in the increasing price of oil !!

Even breaking it maybe not cost effective.

[tdracer]

10 years old, 40,000 odd hours so far. The consider these are the problems anyone faces:
Existing structural and mechanical damage, Interior refit, updating the IFE and Avionics plus many life'd items due before 12 years is up, e.g a ship set of landing gears.
Add that lot up and added to the cost of buying it in the first place, I doubt if you will have a viable aircraft going forward.

And that's all before factoring in the increasing price of oil !!

Even breaking it maybe not cost effective.
That doesn't say much for the overall design of the A380 when you look at all the other long range aircraft out there that are still going strong at 25 years/100,000 hours. :rolleyes:

[wiggy]

falcon12

10 years old, 40,000 odd hours so far. The consider these are the problems anyone faces:

Just to be clear are you talking about problems relevant to this specific airframe or making a general point?

I'd second tdracer's comment about long haul airframe longevity.

[ZFT]

Seems the first 2 have found new homes with Fly Hi

[DaveReidUK]

Seems the first 2 have found new homes with Fly Hi

Or Hi Fly, even.

One is due to enter service next month (which remains to be seen) and the other in February.

[LAS1997]

It seems a shame to see such an amazing aircraft retire. Surely it could be converted into a freighter? Just think how much more cargo she could take compared to a MD11 / 747. Perhaps even a military version? How many more troops she could accomodate compared to an A330 or 767.

[ZFT]

Or Hi Fly, even.

One is due to enter service next month (which remains to be seen) and the other in February.

Thanks for the correction

[Jet II]

It seems a shame to see such an amazing aircraft retire. Surely it could be converted into a freighter? Just think how much more cargo she could take compared to a MD11 / 747. Perhaps even a military version? How many more troops she could accomodate compared to an A330 or 767.

From what I understand its isnt any use as a freighter either as the upper deck isn't strong enough for freight. I seem to remember that some parcel carrier looked at it (FedEx or UPS) and it would be OK for the light but high-volume loads they carry but even they decided it was uneconomical in the end.

Truly a white elephant..

[tdracer]

It seems a shame to see such an amazing aircraft retire. Surely it could be converted into a freighter? Just think how much more cargo she could take compared to a MD11 / 747. Perhaps even a military version? How many more troops she could accomodate compared to an A330 or 767.


It simply does not pencil out well as a purely cargo aircraft, plus getting cargo on/off the upper deck would be a problem without a huge investment in GSE.
The one way it might work would be as a combi style aircraft - cargo on the main deck and SLF up stairs. Problem is, after a few cargo-fire related crashes the regulations for a combi have become so restrictive I doubt we'll ever see a new combi-style aircraft certified.

[Dockwell]

Seems BA may be looking at the Singapore 380s as well

[falcon12]

Wiggy,

A bit of both really. There are plenty of structural issues and repairs on the older a/c that are expensive to rectify on a D check. Also the avionics and IFE updates and Wifi fits to consider as well.

[wiggy]

falcon

OK, fair enough.

Dockwell

Seems BA may be looking at the Singapore 380s as well

TBF that story does the rounds within BA itself every X months where X is usually < 6 months.. oddly enough it usually seems to start from with the 380 community itself, can't think why :} and usually the preamble is "Willie says if he could get a good deal....." . That said I'm a great believer in "never say never" and I'm sure he wouldn't turn down a good deal for IAG if he could get one, so who knows.

tdracer

I also heard another issue with the potential or lack of for the 380 as a freight/combi was the main deck floor strength...do you have an informed opinion on that?

[tdracer]

I also heard another issue with the potential or lack of for the 380 as a freight/combi was the main deck floor strength...do you have an informed opinion on that?
Not really - I saw parts of an analysis several years ago that explained why the A380 wouldn't make a good freighter. A large part was the MZFW was relatively low by freighter standards, so the relationship of payload to aircraft weight wasn't good - it could fly a long way but not carry lots of cargo. While there are exceptions, the worldwide cargo network is based on a max range of ~4000 miles (hence while passenger 747s routinely cross the Pacific non-stop, most cargo 747s refuel in Alaska).
Strengthening the main deck floor is pretty common when doing a freighter conversion but perhaps the large diameter of the A380 makes that a bigger problem.

[Peter47]

I know that the early A380s were heavier than aircraft built later and also inferior in some other respects. I don't know how significant this is or if it was a major factor.

[parabellum]

It seems a shame to see such an amazing aircraft retire. Surely it could be converted into a freighter? Just think how much more cargo she could take compared to a MD11 / 747. Perhaps even a military version? How many more troops she could accomodate compared to an A330 or 767.


All as said before, unlike the B747, originally built as a freighter, the A380 had weight problems from the start and its floors are simply not strong enough to convert it to a viable freighter, it is a pax aircraft, pure and simple.


Flew for an airline that took one of the test B767-300ER airframes, talking to the engineers it was a bit of a nightmare at times because it still had miles of wiring looms that had been used for tests but simply disconnected rather than be removed, all accounted for in the sale price. Made a difference to the weight and balance too.