Aer Lingus FO

[Ich Bin Solo]

Hi Guys,

I'm weighing up the pros and cons of a move to Aer Lingus, but there's a lack of info about them anywhere on here other than for the recruitment process. Can a current FO or anyone with a decent idea of the place elaborate on life as an FO flying the green shamrock around?

Notably,
What's the work/life balance like and the mood in the company?
What can an normal year 1 FO expect to take home net?
What's the current state of affairs regarding progression (rank and fleet)?

Any help or other interesting info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[EI_DVM]

PPJN salary info is fairly accurate, 5/3 fixed pattern roster on the A320 with 1 month every 8 months random roster, A330 full time random roster, minimum 2 days off after east coast trip, 3 days off after a west coast trip, all 24 hour turnarounds in the states.

Rapid expansion at the moment, A330 right seat down to about 2.5-3 years experience, A320 command looking like its currently down to about 8-10 years. Once growth settles down, typical time to A330 right seat was about 7-9 years and time to command 12-15 years, as would have been typical with a long established legacy carrier. High pension contribution from company, highly unionised which has protected most working conditions throughout the years such. Pension, license, medical, uniform, parking, dry cleaning, transport, accomodation for sims/on trips, crew food etc etc all included. Duty limitations stricter than FTL but still expect to work long days with minimum rest during the 5 days on.

Lots of expansion over the next 4-5 years with growth in A330 fleet and 12 A321NeoLRs comming which will shorten time to long haul and time to command.

Understaffed in a lot of seats resulting in a lot of firefighting over the summer months, with a lot of last minute changes to rosters the friday before the week starts, protected by union working conditions but still can be disruptive, resulted in low moral among the troops over the summer. Pay review in progress as we speak, hoping for a report to be published in the next month or two. No indication as to what the report will say, however general staff got a payrise of 8.7% over 2.5 years if that's a benchmark to go by.

[GScapture]

Now that was comprehensive answer :D

[Ich Bin Solo]

Cheers, I couldn't have asked for a better response. Sounds like a better gig than my current one. One last thing, on the 320, do you come home most nights or are there quite a few stops downroute?

[EI_DVM]

Cheers, I couldn't have asked for a better response. Sounds like a better gig than my current one. One last thing, on the 320, do you come home most nights or are there quite a few stops downroute?
Home most nights, 99% of the crews will be back home by the end of the night, 4 crews over night in LHR, 2-6 crews overnight in BHD, 1 crew overnight in SNN and occasionally crews are sent down to ORK to supplement the pilot base there.

nitpicking here but aren't LAX and SFO 3 night/2day layovers?
Not anymore since the return to the west coast 3 years back, flights operate daily, with about 26 hours on the ground downroute, then back to Dublin for 3 days off (not including the day of arrival). Occasionally in winter there may be opportunities for 2 night stops downroute if frequency drops off in January/February but the trend has been moving towards maintaining frequencies even through the winter.

[Shamrock49]

Spot on from EI_DVM. The 330 seems to be becoming extremely junior for FOs, with what seems like an increasing number from both seats choosing to stay on the 320. The 321s will make things very interesting indeed, if it all goes well then it could make the fleet very attractive with a mixture of Europe/North America on a 5/3 roster. Then again it might not...

As an aside I'm sure there are still some 2 night trips to Orlando and Miami, must be a nice break during our winters!

[Snapper5]

An interesting thread !
What do you reckon would be a better package for a seniorFO , Virgin or Lingus ? (330)

[Shamrock49]

Where would you rather live Dublin or London? Although I guess both could be commutable.

Wouldn't know anything about life at Virgin I'm afraid.

[EI_DVM]

Well EI only hires into the right seat A320, all 330 and command places are filled internally by seniority, so it really depends on if you want to go straight to long haul (Virgin) or wait around for 3 years flying the A320 to get back to the right seat 330, and possibly longer if the expansion cools down. Also depends where you want to be based, if you want to live in LON/MAN, Virgin is the better gig in town, if you want to live in DUB and move your family there, or commute from regional UK, EI could be the better gig. Really depends on the lifestyle you want and where you want your career to go. Jumpseating in Uniform on mainline Aer Lingus is free once listed on the crew manifest, with unlimited ID90's available to purchase for Regional flights operated by Stobart after 6 months service.

Also, keep in mind that although the Aer Lingus salary looks very attractive, income taxes in the Republic of Ireland are quite high, with a marginal rate of just over 50%. And expect to spend bout €800 per month renting in Dublin where there's currently an on going housing and rental shortage after years of reduced construction activity following the economic crash, and expect much higher car insurance premiums here as well, all needs to be factored into your decision.

[OUASrules!]

SFO daily most of year. LAX daily during summer schedule only. One night west coast results in 4 days off, not 3, not including day of arrival. 2 night west coast duties result in 3 days off. Miami and Orlando are not daily at anytime throughout the year, thus 2 & 3 nights trips only.

All other current East Coast duties generally 1 night trips (odd exemptions), and Washington sharing duties S18 between 330/757 therefore 2/3 nights trips.

All other new 330 destinations won't start daily and therefore more long-stop duties will be appearing on the roster shortly.

[a320--]

Saw this on the Aer Lingus recruitments site:

A pilot on the European network may fly 4 or 5 flights a day, 5 days a week.


5 flights 5 days a week? Seems a lot!

Can anyone explain the typical roster on the a320?

[Serenity]

Any information on the interview day please?

[thetimesreader84]

Does anyone have any information on the interview / sim assessment for Aer Lingus? Particularly what is a “panel exercise”?

Also, is commuting from mainland UK a realistic option for Dublin base? Property prices are quite high in DUB and family reasons mean a move would not be straightforward, at least not in the short term.

PM is fine. Thanks very much.

[rogue leader]

I don't have any confirmed info about the assessment I'm afraid but maybe this will help:

https://www.totaljobs.com/careers-advice/interviews/panel-interview

I believe you can commute in uniform free of charge and you can bid for overnights during your 5 on (4 nights) so could be possible. Good luck!

[thetimesreader84]

Perhaps just a panel interview then - the email confirmation called it an “exercise” which had me a bit puzzled. Thanks for the info re: commuting. If I can commute then things might be easier in the initial period.

Good luck!

Thanks!

[a350pilots]

PPJN salary info is fairly accurate, 5/3 fixed pattern roster on the A320 with 1 month every 8 months random roster, A330 full time random roster, minimum 2 days off after east coast trip, 3 days off after a west coast trip, all 24 hour turnarounds in the states.

Rapid expansion at the moment, A330 right seat down to about 2.5-3 years experience, A320 command looking like its currently down to about 8-10 years. Once growth settles down, typical time to A330 right seat was about 7-9 years and time to command 12-15 years, as would have been typical with a long established legacy carrier. High pension contribution from company, highly unionised which has protected most working conditions throughout the years such. Pension, license, medical, uniform, parking, dry cleaning, transport, accomodation for sims/on trips, crew food etc etc all included. Duty limitations stricter than FTL but still expect to work long days with minimum rest during the 5 days on.

Lots of expansion over the next 4-5 years with growth in A330 fleet and 12 A321NeoLRs comming which will shorten time to long haul and time to command.

Understaffed in a lot of seats resulting in a lot of firefighting over the summer months, with a lot of last minute changes to rosters the friday before the week starts, protected by union working conditions but still can be disruptive, resulted in low moral among the troops over the summer. Pay review in progress as we speak, hoping for a report to be published in the next month or two. No indication as to what the report will say, however general staff got a payrise of 8.7% over 2.5 years if that's a benchmark to go by.

Add to this a healthy company culture despite challenges years and good training. Thank god RYR was not able to buy them!

[speed_alive_rotate]

Total inaccurate point @jonesyinthesky

[vrb03kt]

Better off commuting to Iceland than Ireland? Sound advice I’d say... :rolleyes:

[Whatsitallabout]

@Jonesyinthesky

You strike me as someone who is either a) Bitter for some reason, or b) Are not actually aware of how the seniority system works in Aer Lingus.

The time to command is directly linked to your seniority number. How you got that seniority number has no correlation to how you entered the company. You take your ticket and you wait until it comes up. As has been stated above, the time to command is currently quite a bit shorter than most legacy airlines. This is due the ongoing expansion on the longhaul network and will continue to do so whilst the 321NeoLRs arrive in the coming years. Also, there is no attitude towards what you have termed "outsiders".

Oh, I'm definitely not sure "you're better off at Wow"

[Enzo999]

I am not sure Virgin have a particularly short command time, also their record on hiring direct entry captains is fairly poor as well (not that I see the importance of that). You seem to be struggling with the concept of a seniority system, when you join you will indeed be behind everyone for command or fleet change irrespective of nationality, that’s the price you pay for joining a legacy airline!

[a350pilots]

This is not because of your nationality, but because they respect their own seniority list. Rightly a FO who has served many years on the right will get preference to any Captain from outside. :ugh: Did you honestly compared wow to Air Lingus?

[Consol]

Well now Jones or can I call you Simon? Seems you are a bit bitter/don't think seniority should apply to someone of your greatness so you've taken to spreading not very accurate (in fact just plain wrong) information about one of the better operators out there and better operators and employers hiring help to keep pay and T and C's up for mere mortals like the rest of us.

Lots of different nationalities, many now occupying the left seat in accordance with seniority.

Current time to A330 about three years, maybe 7-8 for LHS A320.

Aer Lingus never hire direct entry Captains even sky gods like you, they have a seniority system which would be meaningless if they did hire DECs.

Stop posting embittered nonsense, you have been found out. Keep sniffing around FR and maybe MOL will let you work yourself to death there.

[MCDU2]

Commuting from Europe - free if in uniform as stated above. Just need to ask for JS from captain. Can bid for overnights to minimise time in Ireland although will be at the mercy of the roster gods and relying on swapping with other pilots if you end up with a roster full of early start Dublin duties. Likely you would need to either get a B&B in Dublin for a few nights a week at a minimum. Need to consider being rested before duties as well and the weather gods may not always play their part so you shouldnt be cutting it that fine on your commuting plans.

LHS progression is nowhere like 20 years as stated by the idiot above. 2-3 years has seen some of the more recent joiners onto the 330 which makes commuting much more bearable. Commands currently around the 10 year mark. Have been lower during periods of expansion and management tell us that it will drop below the 10 years significantly with the planned Atlantic expansion. In anycase sitting in the RHS of a 330 going across the pond once a week is probably the best gig in the airline so I wouldnt see it as a negative waiting your turn according to seniority.

The lack of DECs is a positive. If you want a DEC then you need to go and prostitute yourself somewhere else.

[bringbackthe80s]

The lack of DECs is a positive. If you want a DEC then you need to go and prostitute yourself somewhere else.

Unbelievable, what a category we are. It’d be nice to see how much you’ll love being a second officer after decades as a captain if you need to change jobs.
Unreal.

[Boeing 7E7]

You have missed the point.

[thetimesreader84]

Some airlines will need captains, and recruit DEC. Some will have enough FOs to promote from within. Some will lie between the two.

Pay, lifestyle, and time at home are more important to me than time to command. Aer Lingus, on the surface, ticks at least two of the above boxes.

Thanks everyone for the input.

[Burpbot]

I’ve never heard of a decent employer needing to recruit DEC! But if your the kind of puke that paid for ratings etc to get ahead etc, that counts for nothing! Go work for a scum bag outfit and live with your choice if that’s what you want! Oh and as an industry we thank you for trying to screw the rest of us!!

[PorridgeStirrer]

Is Aer Lingus still competitive with other legacy carriers?

A starting salary of €41K basic plus flight pay seems on the low side for an experienced ATPL holding applicant, particularly in the current market.

There is no information on their website regarding the package being offered.

How are the rest of the Ts and Cs? Private health/dental insurance? Company provided loss of license and death in service?

How is the staff travel? What are the entitlements for pilots? Are there interline business class agreements for pilots with partner airlines?

[hans brinker]

Unbelievable, what a category we are. It’d be nice to see how much you’ll love being a second officer after decades as a captain if you need to change jobs.
Unreal.

Twenty years, four companies, so I think I am allowed to have an opinion. I have both bypassed others to upgrade in companies without seniority, and most recently I upgraded in company with seniority. I think seniority is more fair to most. Yes, it’s rough to start over at the bottom after being made captain followed by being made redundant (twice). Starting In my current company I was more experienced than half the captains I flew with. I still think this beats being an fo and not upgrading but DECs coming in above you. There will be times/places where DECs are appropriate, when the fos are not yet qualified, the growth is fast, but for an established company with regular retiring/hiring there should be no DECs.

[DirectMaxev]

Is Aer Lingus still competitive with other legacy carriers?

A starting salary of €41K basic plus flight pay seems on the low side for an experienced ATPL holding applicant, particularly in the current market.

There is no information on their website regarding the package being offered.

How are the rest of the Ts and Cs? Private health/dental insurance? Company provided loss of license and death in service?

How is the staff travel? What are the entitlements for pilots? Are there interline business class agreements for pilots with partner airlines?

Hi PS,

There is no health insurance or loss of license provided by the company.

Staff travel is not great in comparison to other airlines. You must choose either your spouse OR your parents as a beneficiary. Only 4 annual buddy passes. Agreements with maybe 15 other airlines, all economy class.

[CruiseMonkey]

Hi there.

The pay can be broken down as follows:

Basic Pay year 1 is €60k euros. After tax and pension contributions this is €38k per annum. This gives a take home of €3160 per month

Sector pay works out on average at €800 net per month.

We also have something called performance pay. Every hour flown over 620 hours in a year, running from October to October, qualifies for performance pay. The hourly rate for FOs is €67. So if you fly 830 hours, you will be paid 210*67=14070 gross. This gives approx €6600 net paid in December. There is also a monthly threshold of 66 hours if you do not make the yearly threshold.

If you choose to bid for overnights then you receive approx €100 net per night away.

You will contribute 11% to the pension while the company contributes 21%.

People do commute from Europe but on a 5:3 pattern but it will be difficult. Time to the 330 is running around 2-2.5 years, which makes commuting very easy. When the Neos arrive next year there will be Atlantic trips on the short haul network.

I hope this helps!

[MaverickPrime]

What is the Annual Leave entitlement in AL?

[CruiseMonkey]

Initially 34 days. Taken in blocks of 5 days in the 5:3 roster pattern. You can also request 3 individual days off for family events etc.

[FullyFullyReady]

If someone with, say, 2500hrs joined would they go in at the lowest payscale or an equivalent SFO paypoint?

[nightfright]

Is the sector pay not taxed?

[CruiseMonkey]

All rated pilots join at year 1 of the FO pay scales. Non rated spend a year on the cadet scale before jumping to year 2 FO.

The company has an agreement with Revenue on the taxation of sector pay. All we see is the net figure.

[EI_DVM]

New entrants will join on point 1 of the pay scale regardless of experience. Non rated entrants join on point 1 of the cadet scale for the first year before moving to point 2 of the FO scale.

Sector pay is taxed but it is paid net of tax, the rates given are the net of tax rate.

[MCDU2]

Leave works on a bidding system. Blocks of leave (single weeks as well as blocks of 2 weeks) are allocated between the "summer" and "winter". Summer isn't exactly as nature would desire as it starts from April as far as I can remember. Each week you are bidding for has a points value attached to it. The attractive weeks encompassing school holidays, public holidays, Easter etc all attract low points so if you are successful in bidding for these weeks then your points total will be low. You accumulate points with your bids and from memory it works on a rolling weighted average basis so if you have a few years of effectively crap leave then you will start building up a decent points balance which will then put you in a stronger position to get the weeks you want. But as you are bidding against your colleagues its not unheard of to get lucky and score good leave with low length of service/points depending on what they are bidding for. Also 1 weeks leave is actually 11 days due to the 5/3 roster pattern. eg: FFFLLLLLFFF. If you get creative and organise a few swaps then you can get a decent amount of time off if you are that way inclined.

There is also reserve leave which you can bid for. After all the leave is allocated based on the above you put your name in and its effectively a first in first out system if the company finds that there is an excess of crews for certain weeks prior to roster production.

You can swap leave as well as swapping rostered duties. There are other types of leave for weddings and day off requests with various rules pertaining to them to avoid abuse by either side. Once your successful just ask the guy/gal you are flying with or read up for yourself the various leave agreements.

In the past few years there have been the occassional chance to bid for short periods of unpaid leave during the winter when we have had a surplus of crews. Many of the new FOs have availed of this to escape the European winter and go travelling. You will get ID90s on most of the major airlines in the world.

[freesail]

Reading the AL requirements and the topics about low hour pilots I had one question. Is it possible for a millitary pilot, without cargo/transportation experience, to be considered for FO?

[daveandg]

At what age do EI pilots retire, I have really struggled to find this anywhere! I have seen historically it is 55, but any updates?

My current airline it is 65, but the majority of line Captains beyond 55 are part time, so is there scope for that? Two long haul trips a month would be the sweet spot in my late 50’s.

if enforced retirement is at 55, is there contract work available to continue flying? Cheers

[Homeland]

Retirement age is 60. Part time option available at all seniority levels. It is 80% part time, so 4-4 instead of 5-3 on the A320. On the A330 part time is less attractive, but I don't know the details.

[waffler]

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[Falling_Penguin]

Hmmm, what about the availability of the cork base? How senior is it? How many aircraft are based there? How long is the wait to access that option?

Thanks,

FP

[Daddy Fantastic]

Any movement on the time to upgrade for new hires?

I presume everybody starts on the A320 based out of Dublin or is it possible to get Cork?

[CruiseMonkey]

Time to command is running at about 8-9 years at the moment.

Most people start on the 320 out of Dublin, some are offered a position in Cork. The Cork base is quite junior so it is usually possible to move down within a year.

[CapitalB]

Has anybody got any feedback about the last (online) selection round? Any idea when results will be out?

Thanks
I spoke to one of their current FOs and he said the last time it took them a couple of months to get back to people. Maybe with the shortage right now its going to be quicker but I wouldn't expect anything in the next 2-3 weeks.

[Black Pudding]

Unbelievable, what a category we are. It’d be nice to see how much you’ll love being a second officer after decades as a captain if you need to change jobs.
Unreal.

Go to China

[PeppyJeppy]

Came across this thread while doing online research.

I'm an FO with a Gulf Carrier looking at returning to the UK/Ireland area. I have 2000+ hours 737 and just over 1000h Boeing widebody. I've just recently turned 30.
My wife never settled here and certainly things promised at interviews as far as command have not materialised. Gradient and regard for FOs is also an issue. We've made good money but we dont see a future here. So we want to move home.

Aer Lingus would suit me well as a job as far as lifestyle. Can anybody give me some feedback on if its worthwhile given my situation and hours?

Cheers.

[flyingmed]

Came across this thread while doing online research.

I'm an FO with a Gulf Carrier looking at returning to the UK/Ireland area. I have 2000+ hours 737 and just over 1000h Boeing widebody. I've just recently turned 30.
My wife never settled here and certainly things promised at interviews as far as command have not materialised. Gradient and regard for FOs is also an issue. We've made good money but we dont see a future here. So we want to move home.

Aer Lingus would suit me well as a job as far as lifestyle. Can anybody give me some feedback on if its worthwhile given my situation and hours?

Cheers.

Ongoing recruitment for the next few years although there may be some downtime during that time frame. You would fall into the direct entry pilot position with your experience, meaning a job in the right seat of an A320. Probably you would be on the A320 for 2-5 years before it is possible get a place in the right seat of the A330. Command time at the moment somewhere between 7-9 years for the A320 and around 20years for the A330. Although there is quite a large group of pilots retiring in the next few years they will be replaced with quite young captains so this time frame will potentially slow down quite a lot in the coming years.

Lifestyle for the A320 = 5 days on, 3 days off. Home nearly every night. (Overnight trips are available in London, Cork and Shannon) / Plenty of leave, most being in the winter but a guarantee of some during the summer season / Approx 800-900hrs a year.
Lifestyle for the A330 = Random roster, winters can be slow and then hectic in summer / Approx 600-800hrs a year / Similar leave to the A320 fleet.

Starting NET salary is very bad given the cost of living in Dublin & the tax rates. The pay only works out if you stay for the long run.

You mentioned you're quite interested in command. If I was you I would probably be trying to get into FR. 5 on 4 off roster and with your experience potentially a short time before being offered a move to the left seat. More options on bases or commuting. I don't want to scare you away from the EI option but it really does depend on where you want to be in the next 10-15 years and not just the immediate future. EI is more of a career option, FR would be better if you are looking at quick command & more immediate results.

Good luck!

[SaulGoodman]

You are only 30. Still an ok age to start in a career / legacy airline. If I were you I would strongly consider EI over FR. What are nowadays the part time options in EI?

[PeppyJeppy]

Ongoing recruitment for the next few years although there may be some downtime during that time frame. You would fall into the direct entry pilot position with your experience, meaning a job in the right seat of an A320. Probably you would be on the A320 for 2-5 years before it is possible get a place in the right seat of the A330. Command time at the moment somewhere between 7-9 years for the A320 and around 20years for the A330. Although there is quite a large group of pilots retiring in the next few years they will be replaced with quite young captains so this time frame will potentially slow down quite a lot in the coming years.

Lifestyle for the A320 = 5 days on, 3 days off. Home nearly every night. (Overnight trips are available in London, Cork and Shannon) / Plenty of leave, most being in the winter but a guarantee of some during the summer season / Approx 800-900hrs a year.
Lifestyle for the A330 = Random roster, winters can be slow and then hectic in summer / Approx 600-800hrs a year / Similar leave to the A320 fleet.

Starting NET salary is very bad given the cost of living in Dublin & the tax rates. The pay only works out if you stay for the long run.

You mentioned you're quite interested in command. If I was you I would probably be trying to get into FR. 5 on 4 off roster and with your experience potentially a short time before being offered a move to the left seat. More options on bases or commuting. I don't want to scare you away from the EI option but it really does depend on where you want to be in the next 10-15 years and not just the immediate future. EI is more of a career option, FR would be better if you are looking at quick command & more immediate results.

Good luck!

Thanks for a very comprehensive answer.

I'm aware the pay is not the best but like I said it's a lifestyle choice due to family issues encountered out here.
I left RYR to come here and am not inclined to return as it's a dog an pony show now by all accounts.

I suppose I wondering overall if I'm too old to be taking a ticket and getting in line in a pure seniority system and I'm assuming previous experience counts for nothing bar knowing the ropes of commercial flying?

[flyingmed]

Seniority trumps all previous experience. There are certain checks you can skip if you have previous command experience however the actual promotion is only given when your number is called. 30 is not too old so you would still manage to fill your pension and have several years on the maximum salary.

About FR the grass is always greener on the other side, I was recently speaking to people who currently work there and people who have recently left. It seems like there is a misconception that it is an easier life elsewhere, that is not entirely correct. A days work in EI can be just as hard if not harder than in FR due to the earlier starts and later finish times when you compare the two. The real difference is annual leave if you manage to get primary summer months. The only downside to the summer leave is that the season is from April to October so peak summer leave is not guaranteed, but at least there is a chance!

[PeppyJeppy]

Seniority trumps all previous experience. There are certain checks you can skip if you have previous command experience however the actual promotion is only given when your number is called. 30 is not too old so you would still manage to fill your pension and have several years on the maximum salary.

About FR the grass is always greener on the other side, I was recently speaking to people who currently work there and people who have recently left. It seems like there is a misconception that it is an easier life elsewhere, that is not entirely correct. A days work in EI can be just as hard if not harder than in FR due to the earlier starts and later finish times when you compare the two. The real difference is annual leave if you manage to get primary summer months. The only downside to the summer leave is that the season is from April to October so peak summer leave is not guaranteed, but at least there is a chance!

Thanks,

To be honest I'm mostly looking at the lifestyle as far as family goes. Long days in EI or FR trump night flights and minimum rest West to East turnarounds in Middle East. Savings I have here will see me through the first year of rubbish pay hopefully.

I know guys in FR still and for me the instability that forced me out still exists. So going back is not my first preference.

[Daddy Fantastic]

Did anybody apply in 2019 and heard something or not. I did but have not heard anything. I have 6000 hours with plenty of jet experience. Just wondering if i should forget it or is there still a chance?

DF

[A320LGW]

it's game over if you have not yet heard

[Daddy Fantastic]

No worries:ok:

[Banana Joe]

They are recruiting even more pilots this summer.

[A320LGW]

No worries:ok:

At the assessment day they showed us the statistics. It was 2,500 applicants, 240 invitations to assessment over 10 days. The first was last Monday (13th Jan) and the last is tomorrow as I understand. It was an interesting day, people of all levels of experience flying everything from the 73 up to A380 commanders, most butchered out at half time during the day, previous experience counts for little during those crucial morning group exercises. The stats from my day were 24 attendees and 7 got to the interview.

They did say they would wipe the slate clean and all can reapply in June, which is the next time they plan to run it.