Memories of RAFG

[Finningley Boy]

Ladies & Gentlemen,

If any of you have served the colours during the Cold War years over in the Federal Republic of dear old Deutschland, indeed up to and including 2000! I would very much like to hear any recollections, anecdotes etc.

Many Thanks in advance.

FB:)

[Linedog]

Laarbruch 1976-79. Best tannoy message ever...........

"This is the station commander speaking. Endex, endex, endex. All station bars are now open". :ok:

[Finningley Boy]

Superb Linedog,

Have you any recollections regarding incidents prior to said message being issued? Such as trouble getting civilians to co-operate while the station went to war?:)

FB:)

[Danny42C]

Finningley Boy (#1),

Try me on "Gaining a R.A.F. Pilots Brevet in WWII" Thread, Page 223 #4447 et seq.

Danny.

[KPax]

Bruggen 76-79, Your Task in Peace is to Train for war, don't you forget it. Johnny W____r standing at the corner of various roads during an Alert with his stopwatch. Mass launch at the end of the exercise, 'get a digger a push the us Jag of the taxiway. Prior to the plastic cover being put over the 'Alert' button, Ops Officer who has leant on the button, 'what the F__k is that'.

[Finningley Boy]

I'm just trying to picture the scene KPax, I take it the pushing of the alert button started the exodus of Jags but were blocked by the one sat on the taxiway.

Best Regards,

FB:)

[99 Change Hands]

Oddly my most vivid memory comes shortly after the Berlin Wall had come down. We were still struggling with the implications of the change of role from deterrence to out-of-area and all that time spent on Taceval and worrying about the arrival of the Spetsnaz troops was behind us.

My office was bang next to the southern taxiway at Laarbruch and I was idly staring out of the window one day when a camouflaged Antonov taxied past. Nearly needed a change of underwear.

[charliegolf]

My wife had 3 small jobs around Gutersloh: dinner lady at the school at Manser (sp) barracks; clerk typist in one of the brown job offices; and finally, the internal mail delivery driver on camp. This was a great job, whizzing around, outside and around the base all day long. She knew the place better than I did! (I was on 230) She drove the mail about in one of the two tannoy-equipped minivans (remember minivans?) that were used by MT to call out the troops on the married patches during wars or exercises.

On the day she found out she was pregnant with our daughter, she was, er, not quite herself- fair enough, you'd agree. End of shift, she backed her van into its strictly allocated spot when she heard and felt a loud bang! The tinkling of glass followed in slow motion. She got out, in shock, only to see that she had crashed her minivan into the only other tannoy-van on base! The MT FS wanted so much to go ape, but she (very very uncharacteristically) started sobbing uncontrollably. He took his ire out on the sniggering airmen, who soon realised they were going to be staying on until both broken vans were roadworthy again.

All he could pour on Mrs Golf was, "You, don't wear those silly (high heeled) shoes tomorrow!"

So, at least one night in 1984 being Taceval-free is down to my unborn daughter!

[Finningley Boy]

99CH and CG,

Thanks very much, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for, I'll be in touch with all individually in due course.

Best Regards,

FB:)

[NutLoose]

Security worries at top secret German base nr Elmpt, HAS wicker door padlocks deemed insufficent against the possible security threat at the time, so all the locks changed for items made of Cryptonite and forged with Thors Hammer..
Security now satisfied... fast forward a week or so and at night the fire alarms go off in a HAS with two state of the art next generation armed fighters inside... OK.. I admit it, they were Jags :{

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub deploy, blue lights flashing and bolt croppers at the ready rapidly attend, 15 minutes of puffing and panting later, somone sent to get the keys as new locks are totally impervious to the fire sections efforts...

Locks rapidly replaced with the old items........ :E


..

[Crromwellman]

I took some TA reinforcements for the RIC, including three girls, and this lead to a whole raft of incidents because OC RIC at the time was the original MCP who could not understand that as far as the Army was concerned they were three JNCOs - sex was immaterial. I must point out that we were all armed win 9.0mm Brownings complete with blank ammunition. Towards the end of the exercise I had to send one of the girls across to RIC alternate and on the way she passed a HAS in which was a Tornado with stagings and people around the cockpit. On asking why our heroine was told that the crew had gone LMF and were not going to bomb innocent civilians. Her response was to to go up the ladder past various senior officers. On arrival at the cockpit the following exchange took place: JNCO: "Are you going to fly the mission?" Pilot: "No"; JNCO draws pistol, cycles round into breech and fires at pilot, turns and looks at assembled company: "Well dig him out and put a new one in." and then disappears on original mission. Needless to say before she returned to the original location, I had had an interesting conversation with the Staish about her actions. The only quick excuse that came to mind was that she was a Geordie!

[NutLoose]

TLP detachment, most drive to Jever in their own cars, but four or five of us use MT transport, MT requested for a Sherpa minibus and the smallest they can rustle up is a 56 seat coach and driver, now it's a long old drive in one of the RAF finest to the top of Germany from Bruggen so part way up the autobahn following a discussion between the driver and the five of us, we pull off into a Ratty for a food break and to use the toilets, suitably refreshed we join the on ramp and set off again when someone says where is Ivor?, looking back we see him in uniform standing in the car park with his bag of goodies from the shop, it took another 15 -20 miles before we could turn around and as we past the ratty heading south we could see him still standing there, we had to travel a fair few miles before we could pull off turn around and then head back to pick him up, just as well the bus wasn't full or he would still be standing there, ohh he wasn't amused...



..

[bspatz]

During the early 1970’s at RAF Laarbruch in common with all the other RAFG bases, preparation for exercises particularly the dreaded Taceval were evident throughout the station at all times. One of the most widespread signs of these preparations were notices stuck on windows announcing that they had been sandbagged although there was not a sandbag to be seen anywhere. The exception to this were the RAF Regiments bofors gun emplacements scattered around the airfield which were fully sandbagged. On visiting one these I was therefore amused to see that someone had stuck a notice on one wall of the emplacement announcing that “these sandbags are a window”

[Buster15]

Hope that this counts:
I was involved in an industry engine investigation at Bruggen 431MU in the mid 80's. In the afternoon a taceval was called so we went back to our hotel, the Lensen in Elmpt. My room overlooked the end of the runway and it was black outside but I well recall the shear awe inspiring energy of the formations of Tornado taking off into the night sky.
It seemed to last for ages but each time the thunder of the reheat shook the hotel walls as the jets accelerated down the runway.
This event stuck in my mind as a reminder of what might have happened had events worked out differently.

[Vendee]

Another HAS story. II Sqn Laarbruch, about 1981.

The Mk1 HAS was equipped with clamshell doors. The door motors frequently failed but they could be pushed open or closed by a couple of blokes. On the inside of each door there was a 4" diameter steel pin which dropped into a hole in the floor in the closed position. One night shift, the lineys pushed both doors shut from the outside, only to discover the wicket door was also bolted closed from the inside.

It appeared that there was no way to get inside the HAS (which had two Jags in it) There was a circular hatch in the side of the HAS, about 12" diameter, for passing through a houchin cable but it was too small for anyone to get through. Then someone remembered that some ATC cadets were at Laarbruch for their summer camp. Someone was dispatched to their barrack block. They turned out all the cadets (at about one in the morning) and took the smallest one back to the squadron and shoved him through the houchin hole. The cadet unbolted the wicket door and the HAS was liberated. The cadet was returned to bed but the next day he was given the VIP tour of the sqn with lots of cockpit time.

[Green Flash]

Gutersloh, mid '80s. A mate who was an airframes basher on 3Sqn co-opted me into playing a huge prank on a fellow spanner wielder.
Said spannerman had not long been on base and had committed some minor misdemeanor and his so called mates decided to wind the poor bu&&er up somewhat. Being a fat civvy at the time, I was cast in the role of the SIB:uhoh: I duly appeared on the hanger balcony, a suitably worried Chiefy was summoned (everyone but the victim was in on this) and he pointed an accusing finger at said victim on the hanger floor, who was now bricking it for Britain. My little entourage slowly made our way to him -
'Are you SAC Bloggs?'
'Yes, but, but I didn't d ....'
'Save that for the court sonny! 1250, now!'
The magic was then broken by the entire hanger falling about in hysterics, me included.
'You b******s!!!!!!'
You had to be there.

[langleybaston]

I did three tours totalling 12 years plus so I have a fair number of anecdotes, some of which have appeared elsewhere and will, no doubt, be regurgitated unless I am howled down. This one is not so much funny as a window into the human psyche.

Guetersloh c. 1970.
Met. Office night duty staff [one forecaster, one observer] were accustomed to snatching 90 minutes charp each in the rest room/coffee bar. Each covered for the other.
One of the forecasters would retire, yawning, and within minutes exit through the ground floor window into his car, out of the gates, down to the nearest layby, and then pleasure his inamorata for a while before returning, back through the window, back into the camp bed, just in time to be "awakened" by the observer with a mug of coffee.

Everyone but everyone [including the snowdrops on the gate] knew exactly what was going on, but the conspiracy of silence was maintained in the hope that he would one night snag his testimonials on the window catch.

[zed3]

Buster15... now that you mention it, I remember in the First Gulf War, after the declaration, the Tornados launching from Bruggen. We lived in Montfort on the Dutch side, they went off in the evening and I wished them God's Speed. Later in the following morning they returned and as I had counted them out, I counted them back in again. Aviation is a wonderful fellowship, I worked in ATC at Eurocontrol/Maastricht UAC. Happy days, now behind me. Just my thoughts.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

Wildenrath early '80's
Finish phantom phixing around midnight, too late for the station bars. Crawl under crash gate step across road into the Pony Hof and enjoy an audience with the "ladies" until breakfast was served in the mess.
Night flying again, strap crew in for sortie and explain that you will be enjoying supper when they return and would they give advance notice of the exact time?
"No problem we'll buzz the rugby club bar once we're in the circuit"

Gutersloh late 80's
My role in the Harrier repair team convoy was that of beer carrier with Bedford 4tonner and 1/4 ton trailer fully loaded and tarped up. That one caused SOXMIS a few sleepless nights:ok:

And as for my on line moniker, well, I can explain everything, as I tried to at the time in the Penn Club.:ouch:

RAFG memories? a bit hazy really

[langleybaston]

that will be the Wobbly .............

[MPN11]

May I just say that I really really regret not having done RAFG in those days .. or ever, actually.

I read on with reinforcement of the things I had heard in the past.

[NRU74]

Laarbruch c 1976
At the post Taceval wash up when Laarbruch got a ‘2’ for ‘Strike’ having inadvertently launched a strike against a ‘withheld’ target Gp Capt Mike Knight declared ‘If Laarbruch don’t get a ‘1’ next year ‘my cock’s a kipper’ !’
The distaff guys in front of me, can’t recall if they were German or Cloggie, said something to each other sounding similar to ‘was ist mein Hahne ist ein haring’ ?

[Linedog]

May I just say that I really really regret not having done RAFG in those days .. or ever, actually.

I read on with reinforcement of the things I had heard in the past.

MPN11............ It's just an alcoholic haze. :ok:

[dctyke]

Laarbruch 1976-79. Best tannoy message ever...........

"This is the station commander speaking. Endex, endex, endex. All station bars are now open". :ok:

However a lot of us had two squadrons of buccs to download at 'endex' so we never made the bar unless the ex finished early afternoon.

[Linedog]

Having been posted into Laarbruch as an SAC aircraft electrical mech, recently married without kids I had no chance of getting married quarters. After a few weeks of searching around I got a two bedroomed private flat at Phalzdorf which was about 14 miles from camp. Eight flats, two Brits couples and six German family's. It was brilliant as we stayed away from camp at the weekends and socialised with the locals.
Friday evening would start with me and my wife getting home to find our next door neighbour Artur, sitting on a crate of beer outside our flat and spending the whole of Friday evening apologising for WW2. I didn't know much German and he didn't know much English but we communicated in beer language. It worked and we became good friends.
The couple below us had two young kids and when I was on nights, Elka would invite me for coffee around 11 am. A great life and I wish that the cold war could be brought back again. I would certainly volunteer. :ok:

[DODGYOLDFART]

Gutersloh c.1959 Two lads and two local lassie's go for a night out in Bielefeld. Great time had by all but driving proving difficult do to the amount of alcohol consumed. The road back to camp was lined with rather substantial trees which was common place in RAFG at that time. Car (Opel Rekord) travelling at about 60 kph accidentally clips a tree which causes said car to perform a barrel role. Car lands back on all four wheels, engine still running though out of gear but now with no glass in windows, roof a good six inches lower, two hysterical women, though thank God no one actually hurt. Quite amazing really as we did not have seat belts in those days.

The shock of the incident seemed to sober us up and it was decided to take the girls back to their homes in the town. Later arriving back at camp at about three in the morning. Wave 1250's out of window and barrier raised to let us in. Drove car off quickly and park it outside of our accommodation.

Next morning standing in the shower owner of said Opel says to occupant of the adjoining shower that he had a really bad dream and that in the dream he had written his car off. The chap in the other shower then asks him if he has seen his car this morning and the full horror is then revealed.

Later in the crew room a plot is hatched to take the car out of the camp and roll it into a large and deep ditch to claim the insurance.

That saga is perhaps for another time.:)

[Linedog]

However a lot of us had two squadrons of buccs to download at 'endex' so we never made the bar unless the ex finished early afternoon.

Should've picked your trade more carefully mate. There was four in TG1. :ok:

[Rigga]

Laarbruch, and the dreaded Tornados are coming to boot the Bucc's out!
It's a Tuesday and JT Rigga is on Keys & Teas.
The first Torpedo arrives and is gently manipulated and polished into a slot in MEAS under the Station Forms Store. The Towing Team consisted of three Chiefs, one Flt Sgt and another Flt Sgt on Brakes. I watched from the Tea-Bar door on the mezzanine.
Almost a coach load of RAFP turn up and a pristine White Rope Cordon on polished Oak Stands is placed around the beast of the future and a single and lowly acting cpl rafp is placed within the Cordon to protect this new bringer of doom.
Threats are made to the Bucc population to prevent 'sabotage'!
At 1700 the hangar empties and JT Rigga does his rounds and subsequently delivers the keys to the guardroom..job done.
At 2030 there is a knock at 26 Teddar Cres... Man in Bluer woolly Pilley and white hate says "You have left the hangar unlocked Return and lock the fire door at the Blast Wall end, NOW!"
Oops! I'll get on my bike and be there in a tick....(thinking 'silly little rigga' all the way there)
Wednesday, Hangar Controller not too impressed!
At 1700 Rigga does the rounds again and by 1730 hands keys in....At 1930 theres a knock at the door..."WOT! AGAIN???" Multiple apologies and checking of the doors again, home by 2030.
The following evening, at the front door, I am told I will be charged with neglect the following day! I lock up again knowing that I have locked all the doors properly.
At 0830 - after being bollocked 'somewhat' be several persons of rank, I pick up a clipboard and do a survey of the hangar's security. I ask questions in all sections and do walk around internally and externally. I spend the day writing my observations...
I am summoned to the Flt Sgt's office and asked if there is anything I want to say before the charge goes ahead. I show him my findings and he reads it...all of it.
In my defence I found that although ASF locks up and 'secures' the hangar, VASS, the Bays, GEF, Stores and the Armoury are still working in the hangar. Many of the staff walk through the doors that I had closed to leave work. Many of the personnel in the sections also had personal (and illegal) keys. There were several wood-framed (and probably original) windows allowing direct access to the Hangar Floor - and all with broken clasps that did not work - rending the hangar floor insecure in any case.
My final conclusion was that the RAFP probably had not conducted any sort of security survey (of the camp or hangar) prior to allowing the new thermo-nuclear clump onto the floor....
I wasn't charged.

[Warmtoast]

JHQ Rheindahlen 1974


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/JHQ2.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/JHQCropped.jpg

[NutLoose]

Ahhh wobbly... And Jever Pils that turned your poo black.....

[Slow Biker]

Around '68. Elderly cpl, in uniform, returning from a session in the Post; apprehended at the gate by plod who wanted to lock him up for D&D. You can't do that says cpl, I'm the Duty Armourer.

That was the year we missed news of the moon landing; what a day to press the hooter.

[Vendee]

Buster15... now that you mention it, I remember in the First Gulf War, after the declaration, the Tornados launching from Bruggen. We lived in Montfort on the Dutch side, they went off in the evening and I wished them God's Speed. Later in the following morning they returned and as I had counted them out, I counted them back in again.

I don't know where they had been but it certainly wasn't the Gulf.

[NutLoose]

Top secret Jaguar base and planned visit by Tarzan ( Michael Hesseltime ) the Defence Minister of the time named for wearing an old DPM parka..
As they did at the time we were selected to host his visit to a frontline squadron and a HAS was selected, we move out and German contractors moved in, years of exhaust grime is removed by shot blasting the whole of the interior metal structure and includes the floors, all the internal structure is then repainted and the floor sealed bringing the HAS back to an immaculate as built state.... Jaguars are positioned in the HAS and an impressive display of weaponry is set up in front with the Squadrons number picked out in 30mm Aden round belts...

The scene is set...

And then the decision is made that after his visit to see the Jags, he will be entertained while the weaponry is removed and he will then watch a wartime scramble with the guys in full NBC kit...

So, onto the morning of the visit and literally hours before his arrival I am told to nip out and fuel the Jags, requesting them to be dragged outside I am told no as all the weaponry is position ( and it took them ages to do) I point out to no avail that the rear Jag is renound for venting and I am told to get on with it.... Anyway, out I go and start refuelling, true to form the damned thing starts venting by the gallon, HAS flooded and despite my protestations it's all my fault.
Panic stations on the Sqn and bags and bags of chicken **** dumped on the pristine floor to absorb it all then swept up leaving a slight crunch under foot and a huge chicken **** stain that stands out a mile in the immaculate HAS. :E

[ICM]

Further to #29, the HQ building looked much the same when we (by then HQ 2Gp) left on 31 March 1996. (A small handful of residual staff for Host Nation-related purposes stayed on, presumably till Bruggen closed as a RAF base.)

[Brian W May]

Ah yes, at Gutersloh, the little stickers in the toilets and everywhere around the station saying:

'Come back Lightnings, all is forgiven' . . . a tribute to the Harrier

[pr00ne]

1 tour in RAFG towards the end of the F4 mud moving days.


IF YOU CAN REMEMBER RAFG.........you weren't there!

[OldnDaft]

Buster15... now that you mention it, I remember in the First Gulf War, after the declaration, the Tornados launching from Bruggen. We lived in Montfort on the Dutch side, they went off in the evening and I wished them God's Speed. Later in the following morning they returned and as I had counted them out, I counted them back in again. Aviation is a wonderful fellowship, I worked in ATC at Eurocontrol/Maastricht UAC. Happy days, now behind me. Just my thoughts.
I lived in St Joost when I was on my 1st tour at Bruggen - used to drive through Montfort on the way to/from work. Lovely wee place, great people.

[matkat]

Laarbruch 1978 GDT training and we are being lectured on the kinds of biological weapons there are. One bright spark raises his arm and asks the instructor if rabies were ever used said instructor nearly chokes laughing and apologises for the hysterics and says excuse me but I just pictured in my mind a Buccaneer going low level over Russia with Alsatians attached to the pylons cue whole class now in hysterics and one rather embarrassed classmate.

[NutLoose]

Bruggen GDT centre and perusing the horror board of photos put up as a warning, the poor Waaf Smoking in bed naked and burnt to a crisp to the waist, everything else untouched, the horrific pictures of the poor kid glue sniffing in front of the gas fire and the flash welding the bag to his face, the pictures of the car after the Armourer trainees been given a block of semtex and told to use enough to blow a door open, and the resulting crater with the engine block some distance away... and finally the Xray of some guy side on with the snapped off flute of a champagne glass up inside his rectum..... anyone else remember those?



..

[Finningley Boy]

Ladies & Gentlemen,

This has been a fantastic response, I'll try and get round to you all in due course via PM!

Anymore are certainly welcome.
:ok:

FB:)

[Wander00]

Never stationed there, but visited frequently with 360, initially in WD935, the 6th Canberra B2, which was still in old black and grey. Also had bomb shackles so could winch up pnniers containing lamb joints to keep the RAFG masses happy. I recall same aircraft flown into a clutch airfield with an all RN crew, which foxed the plods so they arrested all three for stealing the aircraft. later on with the T17s we were allowed to fight back when exercising with Lightnings. The Canberra could turn well at altitude and I briefly got on the tail of a Lightning at night, pressed the tx button and called "murder, murder". Pity it was OC 92, not my ex Cranwell mate B...n C....d who I thought it was. Got a severe talking to

[FL575]

Laarbruch '77

OC 'A', (in capacity as Ground Defence Commander) decrees that, in order to get into the spirit of things, when the hooter goes, all off base personnel are to drive in wearing NBC kit and gas mask. Personnel all state that they are not too sure that their car insurance would be too happy with that, so will wait for coaches to pick them up from quarters in Goch, etc. Order rescinded.

[NutLoose]

Wasn't there a bank robbery too when an airman during NBC Black walked into the bank, held it up with his weapon, stuffed the pockets of his NBC kit full of money then walked out to join the rest of the weapon carrying Gas Mask ( I can call it that now ) and NBC kitted throng... the failure in the cunning plan, he had his name rank and bloodgroup taped across the front of his NBC kit as you do..

[NutLoose]

RAF plod and dog walking the Squadron site kicks something on the ground, looking down he realises it is a practice bomb, returning jet had shut down on the main taxyway, armourers rerole it as tug hooked up and moves it into HAS, armourers following, removed bombs missed in the dark until the plod finds them..

[NutLoose]

Heading to do engine change at Gut, Sgt in co pilots seat asleep, hurtling up the Autobahn as fast as the poor Sherpa would go, comes up on a little black RAFG car, driver starts to slow down, I say its probably just some SAC driver, Cpl driving agrees so floors it again. gets lost, arrives Gut and man on gate says ahhh we have been expecting you... OC Ops would like to speak to the driver and the senior person in the vehicle, Sgt just awake looks around with that dumb what did I miss look... I make myself as small as possible in the back of the minibus.

[MrBernoulli]

Around '68.
.………….
That was the year we missed news of the moon landing; what a day to press the hooter.
You must have had a very busy year because the first moon landing, the Apollo 11 mission, occurred on 20 July 1969! Or are you, perhaps, referring to the first manned mission to travel to, and orbit, the moon? This was Apollo 8, in December 1968. :ok:

[glad rag]

Sleeping on a X4 load of 1000lb'ers on a S type in an unheated Mk1 HAS was actually doable and oddly comfortable apart from the frost....installing the wiring to add spills was probably my least favourite working experience-3 days going round in circles in zone 19..highlight possibly could have been finding different idented lead seals front and rear on pre load checks ROFL ... but on hindsight best experience was being removed from sanger suffering from hypothermia (along with the rest of the off sector guards on 16 who had been in position for 23 hours in minus 15 and 2 feet of snowfalling) saw out the rest of maxival in med center wrapped in hairy blankets sipping tepid soup-bliss apart from feet...they weren't too blissful..

[Buster15]

Buster15... now that you mention it, I remember in the First Gulf War, after the declaration, the Tornados launching from Bruggen. We lived in Montfort on the Dutch side, they went off in the evening and I wished them God's Speed. Later in the following morning they returned and as I had counted them out, I counted them back in again. Aviation is a wonderful fellowship, I worked in ATC at Eurocontrol/Maastricht UAC. Happy days, now behind me. Just my thoughts.

Thank you zed3. I had been reading a book by General Sir John Hackett entitled The Third World War in which Tornado's based in RAF were in actively involved in stricks against Warsaw Pact and it brought it all back to me.

[langleybaston]

Petrol coupons but first the Tick Test.
Just about every squadron and every section had a complete set of the very limited number of exam papers, correctly ticked.
Seitenstreifen nicht befahrbar.

I cannot be the only joker who, having passed first time [my boss: "nobody but nobody from Met. has ever failed"] ticked a lot of wrong boxes and added the crib to the communal pool.
It worked.

Then the annual BFG check on the car. Judging by the very dubious cars that passed, money must have changed hands.

Petrol coupons brought on strange greed and miserliness. Several times my car was running on fumes, a long way from home, having passed up several filling stations that were this year's "wrong ones" for accepting coupons.

There was a garage in/near Elmpt that provided new tyres in exchange for a fistful of coupons. Naughty but nice.

[26er]

moon landing. 20th July is American! It was actually 21st GMT

[Dougie M]

One vivid memory of RAFG was in the bunker at Laarbruch in the mid 70s where I was an Ops bod. The night shift was deadly but a safari bed and green maggot whiled away the dark hours. Nobody could get in after all. There were 2 key holders for the safe, the other being the airman on the "floor". O.C. WRAF decided that it being a non sleeping shift, here gels could work nights. At Oh Christ hundred the teleprinter leapt into life. I reached out to the console and said "Keys to the bridge" and rolled out of bed. "Sh!t there's a Wraf on duty" so pulling my trousers on I got to the safe. A delightfully dishevelled young lady arrived up the stairs with the key nestling in the cleavage of a shell pink bra I recall, just as the 2ATAF Taceval team and the Staish burst though the office door.
"We will observe the Station Call Out then retire while your staff regain their decorum" said Wg Cdr La T*****. the team leader. The Staish gave me the death stare. Often wondered why my career stagnated.

[Vendee]

Wasn't there a bank robbery too when an airman during NBC Black walked into the bank, held it up with his weapon, stuffed the pockets of his NBC kit full of money then walked out to join the rest of the weapon carrying Gas Mask ( I can call it that now ) and NBC kitted throng... the failure in the cunning plan, he had his name rank and bloodgroup taped across the front of his NBC kit as you do..

That was an SAC at Wildenwrath. There were messages put out on BFBS radio all day trying to locate the culprit. He was finally found in the attic of his MQ after the RAF plods had already searched the place.

[Slow Biker]

Mr B, correct of course, 1969. Must have got carried away remembering the DA incident (can't remember what happened to said cpl) when the moon landing came to mind and too dim to check the date.

[Shiny10]

Gut in the 90's. For some reason Gut had a public holiday mid week that wasn't enjoyed by the rest of RAFG. A games night was organised between the Officers and Sgts Messes and a very good night was had by all. I got home at about 0400hrs and then RAFG Command HQ called an exercise at 0600hrs. I cycled to work and sat in the toilets with my head in my hands, most people drove to work. For some reason EndEx was called at 0800hrs. :ugh:
(All times approx.)

[Arfur Dent]

What was the name of that restaurant near Rheindalen that served amazing chicken?
Fuchsbau?? Something like that. Never tasted the same before or since. 1974-7 Harriers.

[Rigga]

Wasn't there a bank robbery too when an airman during NBC Black walked into the bank, held it up with his weapon, stuffed the pockets of his NBC kit full of money then walked out to join the rest of the weapon carrying Gas Mask ( I can call it that now ) and NBC kitted throng... the failure in the cunning plan, he had his name rank and bloodgroup taped across the front of his NBC kit as you do..

I seem to remember that was a couple of RAFP lads at Laarbruch, early 80's.
There was another, similar, escapade where a couple of 'equally smart lads' got some dosh out of a bank at Wildenrath and the call went out on BFBS Radio and TV (it was there then) for all listeners/viewers to be on the look out for the getaway car...a brown Allegro!
In a country full of VW's, Merc's and Beemers, they didn't last long!

[E-Spy]

What was the name of that restaurant near Rheindalen that served amazing chicken?
Fuchsbau?? Something like that. Never tasted the same before or since. 1974-7 Harriers.

English nickname 'Chicken in the Woods'
Actual German name (you are correct) 'Im Fuchsbau' in the Hardterwald

It was still there in 2009 when I was at language school, and still did the hottest chicken rub known to man - so scharf wie scharf kann sein, bitte!:eek:

[Warmtoast]

langleybaston #49

Petrol Coupons but first the Tick Test
At Rheindahlen the fearsome German who examined us for the BFG Driving Licence (with the dreaded 'Tick-test') issued SOXMIS forms to successful BFG licence applicants promising dire consequences if we failed to report sighted SOXMIS vehicles.
This is the form in question.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/SoxmisBAORreportingform.jpg

[Akrotiri bad boy]

MG Bank Robbery

This has gone down in the anals of history. I remember the BFBS TV announcement; " We interrupt this broadcast of Corinna Schnarbels and her German speaking parrot to bring you news of an armed heist in downtown MG"

If I remember rightly the poor fella was under pressure to take his wife and kids on holiday and dipped into the sports club fund he was treasurer of. Which unfortunately then became the subject of an unannounced audit.

He wasn't long on the run before the meatheads collared him, last I heard he was a cause celebre in the Bruggen glasshouse. RAFG's very own own Norman Stanley Fletcher.

[Warmtoast]

BFG - Tax free cars

Here’s my experience of tax and duty-free car purchases when I was posted to JHQ Rheindahlen in the early 1970’s

I was vaguely aware of the tax and duty-free shopping privileges available in Germany, but decided I’d make use of the UK’s Personal Export Scheme to buy a new car before I departed for Germany, so I sold my trusty Ford Anglia to a neighbour and with the proceeds had enough cash to put towards a new car.

At the time (late 1971) I wasn’t totally au-fait with the car purchase situation for Germany so was tempted enough to take advantage of the UK’s Personal Export Scheme whereby one bought a car in the UK without Purchase Tax provided one exported it permanently within a certain time (about three months I think) after purchase. With a young family and having examined the market and taken advice from friends, a new Austin Maxi 1750cc with rear seats that folded down to a bed seemed to be an ideal family car. So I went ahead and purchased a new Maxi as a personal export vehicle, paying the princely sum of £837 pounds i.e. UK price less Purchase Tax. I exported it in January 1971 and this car served me and the family well for our initial two years in Germany, but in 1974 knowing I’d be returning to the UK in mid-1975 decided that a new and up-market car at a BFG Tax and Duty free price would be a sensible long-term choice — the only stipulation to importing into the UK at the end of one’s tour without paying tax etc. was that it had to be registered in one’s name and be more than one-year old. No problems with this, as when I returned to the UK a year later I would meet these HM Customs’ requirements, and so it was.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/MAXI_zpsa11d2c4d.jpg

Maxi with family en-route to Italy 1972 - taking a break near the San Bernardino pass in Switzerland

At Rheindahlen one was spoilt for choice when buying a new car as on Saturdays the environs of the JHQ NAAFI and the car park outside were filled with a plethora of car dealers all after one’s custom.

Having taken to camping in a big way in the first two years of our tour in Germany, an estate car with plenty of room would tick all the boxes, so I arranged a test drive of a Volvo estate. The dealer was very generous and allowed one to drive around for half-a-day — and I was hooked. A Volvo 145 Estate it was to be. Altogether it cost me the equivalent to £1,300 sterling.

Despite the relatively low price, all car prices whether British, German and French or others included a “delivery” charge and for Volvos from Sweden to Germany the delivery charges were a bit on the steep side. After forty-years I can’t remember exactly what it was, but the dealer did suggest an alternative where one could take personal delivery at Volvo’s plant in Gothenburg in Sweden. Having done the sums it was clear that the cost of a railway journey from Moenchengladbach to Gothenburg plus the cost of a hotel and fuel for the return would be cheaper than paying the relatively steep “delivery charge”. So I opted for a “personal” collection from Volvo in Sweden. This was a relatively simple process. I paid a deposit to the dealer and he placed the order with Volvo. All that was necessary then was to get a bankers draft payable to Volvo for the balance from the bank where I banked in Germany (Rheindahlen’s Commerzbank). A copy of the BFG registration document as arranged in advance with the BFG licensing authorities, a green (insurance) card, BFG number plates, a GB sticker and that was it.

The train journey from Moenchengladbach was via Hamburg (change), Copenhagen (change) and then direct to Gothenburg. The timetable showed I could leave Moenchengladbach in the evening, change late at night at Hamburg and catch the overnight train to Denmark arriving at Copenhagen very early in the morning. At Copenhagen one caught the first early morning train to Gothenburg. In those days international trains were conveyed by the ferry across the water, the passenger railway carriages were driven onto the ferry and driven off at the destination terminal, a new locomotive was attached and the journey continued to the destination. There was no way, except in an emergency of getting off the carriage whilst it was on the ferry, just stay in the carriage for the ferry crossing and it all worked well.

The journey from Germany to Sweden involved two sea crossings: The first from Hamburg to Copenhagen was the Puttgarden (Germany) and Røby (Denmark) ferry, the second from Copenhagen to Gothenburg with the ferry over the Øresund from Kronborg (Helsingør) in Denmark to Helsingborg in Sweden.

The Hamburg – Copenhagen train was overnight in a carriage with couchettes. The journey was relatively short and although the train arrived in Copenhagen at about 05.00, one was allowed to stay in the carriage until about 06.30 or so which allowed for breakfast in the station buffet before boarding the onward connection for Gothenburg in Sweden that left at 07.34.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/CopenhagenStation_zps7a5cda5c.jpg


This shows the 07:34 Stockholm and Gothenburg train (“The Vikingen”) waiting at Copenhagen to depart for Gothenburg.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/TrainjoiningFerry1_zps4bed4117.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/TrainCarriageonFerry-KronborgCastleBackground_zps8f3f7f9d.jpg


The ferry on the Øresund from Kronborg (Helsingør) in Denmark to Helsingborg in Sweden (with Hamlet's castle in the background)

I’d been instructed to ring Volvo’s Tourist Delivery Centre when the train arrived at Gothenburg and they responded by sending a car to collect me from the station and take me to Volvo’s Tourist Delivery Centre. Volvo’s delivery service worked well and the formalities were dealt with efficiently.
The banker’s draft was handed over, documents checked etc. and the BFG number plates and GB sticker affixed. This took a little while but the icing on the cake, and totally unexpected was that Volvo had arranged a free overnight stay in a Gothenburg hotel which allowed for a bit of sightseeing and the chance to have a good Swedish meal (with fish of course!). So the next day after an early breakfast I departed Gothenburg south towards Copenhagen (200-miles) my next planned night stop.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/VolvoTrouristDeliveryCentre1974_zps62e033f6.jpg


Taking delivery of my new Volvo at the Volvo Tourist Delivery Centre.

I took delivery in June. The weather was absolutely gorgeous and being mid-summer I was pleasantly surprised by the strong sunlight and almost Mediterranean look of the Kattegat as I travelled south down the west coast of Sweden to Helsingborg to take the car-ferry back over the Øresund to Helsingør in Denmark.

The west coast of Sweden had absolutely stunning scenery as seen below


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden1_zpsaa5914ee.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden_zps45f9732c.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden2_zps65439ab6.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/BusyOslashresund_zps434c672f.jpg


In 1974 the Sweden to Denmark ferries over the Øresund were reputed to be the busiest in the world, probably right as my photo shows.

[Vendee]

I remember my first weekend in RAFG. Myself and five other new arrivals took the bus into town on the Saturday. I suggested we remember the name of the street where the bus stop was to make it easier getting home. One of the guys said he had memorised it. Later when we were ready to go back to Laarbruch, I asked the guy for the name of the street. He proudly announced it was "Einbahnstraße" (One way street). Doh!!!

[langleybaston]

Other than driving on the right, another car complication in the later years was the unseemly habit of the IRA targetting cars bearing BFG plates ..... these were nasty tin ones with white letters/ numbers on black.

So "British" plates, with entirely spurious British reg. numbers were issued, which led to the unlikely spectacle of tens of thousands of apparent British tourists swanning around Germany, concentrated near the bases. Today's Brit newspaper [from the YW or the Mally or whatever] tended to give the game away ..................................

I still have the many plates issued to me: we had to destroy the old ones but I destroyed one of each pair to show willing.

[langleybaston]

Nobody has mentioned the weather, so the Duty Met, man had better deal with it.
The weather was indeed different, much more text-book Continental, especially so the further East one was based.
Every year, Met. RAF Bruggen ran a sweepstake for the first date with snow at a British observing site. The sweep was always won in November ...... try that in the UK these days.

Guetersloh and Detmold [pongoes] had genuine freezing rain most winters, real evil stuff that coated all surfaces with mirror-smooth ice within minutes. Such it was that cars had an external set of windows, made of ice, and steering was a lottery.

Summers regularly reached the mid 30s C for a week or so, and the heat was quite distressing as air-con was a rarity.

And forecasting was just as difficult. Woe betide a missed snowfall, with airfields black and WingCo Ops looking even blacker.

[glad rag]

BFG - Tax free cars

Here’s my experience of tax and duty-free car purchases when I was posted to JHQ Rheindahlen in the early 1970’s

I was vaguely aware of the tax and duty-free shopping privileges available in Germany, but decided I’d make use of the UK’s Personal Export Scheme to buy a new car before I departed for Germany, so I sold my trusty Ford Anglia to a neighbour and with the proceeds had enough cash to put towards a new car.

At the time (late 1971) I wasn’t totally au-fait with the car purchase situation for Germany so was tempted enough to take advantage of the UK’s Personal Export Scheme whereby one bought a car in the UK without Purchase Tax provided one exported it permanently within a certain time (about three months I think) after purchase. With a young family and having examined the market and taken advice from friends, a new Austin Maxi 1750cc with rear seats that folded down to a bed seemed to be an ideal family car. So I went ahead and purchased a new Maxi as a personal export vehicle, paying the princely sum of £837 pounds i.e. UK price less Purchase Tax. I exported it in January 1971 and this car served me and the family well for our initial two years in Germany, but in 1974 knowing I’d be returning to the UK in mid-1975 decided that a new and up-market car at a BFG Tax and Duty free price would be a sensible long-term choice — the only stipulation to importing into the UK at the end of one’s tour without paying tax etc. was that it had to be registered in one’s name and be more than one-year old. No problems with this, as when I returned to the UK a year later I would meet these HM Customs’ requirements, and so it was.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/JHQ%20Rheindahlen/MAXI_zpsa11d2c4d.jpg

Maxi with family en-route to Italy 1972 - taking a break near the San Bernardino pass in Switzerland

At Rheindahlen one was spoilt for choice when buying a new car as on Saturdays the environs of the JHQ NAAFI and the car park outside were filled with a plethora of car dealers all after one’s custom.

Having taken to camping in a big way in the first two years of our tour in Germany, an estate car with plenty of room would tick all the boxes, so I arranged a test drive of a Volvo estate. The dealer was very generous and allowed one to drive around for half-a-day — and I was hooked. A Volvo 145 Estate it was to be. Altogether it cost me the equivalent to £1,300 sterling.

Despite the relatively low price, all car prices whether British, German and French or others included a “delivery” charge and for Volvos from Sweden to Germany the delivery charges were a bit on the steep side. After forty-years I can’t remember exactly what it was, but the dealer did suggest an alternative where one could take personal delivery at Volvo’s plant in Gothenburg in Sweden. Having done the sums it was clear that the cost of a railway journey from Moenchengladbach to Gothenburg plus the cost of a hotel and fuel for the return would be cheaper than paying the relatively steep “delivery charge”. So I opted for a “personal” collection from Volvo in Sweden. This was a relatively simple process. I paid a deposit to the dealer and he placed the order with Volvo. All that was necessary then was to get a bankers draft payable to Volvo for the balance from the bank where I banked in Germany (Rheindahlen’s Commerzbank). A copy of the BFG registration document as arranged in advance with the BFG licensing authorities, a green (insurance) card, BFG number plates, a GB sticker and that was it.

The train journey from Moenchengladbach was via Hamburg (change), Copenhagen (change) and then direct to Gothenburg. The timetable showed I could leave Moenchengladbach in the evening, change late at night at Hamburg and catch the overnight train to Denmark arriving at Copenhagen very early in the morning. At Copenhagen one caught the first early morning train to Gothenburg. In those days international trains were conveyed by the ferry across the water, the passenger railway carriages were driven onto the ferry and driven off at the destination terminal, a new locomotive was attached and the journey continued to the destination. There was no way, except in an emergency of getting off the carriage whilst it was on the ferry, just stay in the carriage for the ferry crossing and it all worked well.

The journey from Germany to Sweden involved two sea crossings: The first from Hamburg to Copenhagen was the Puttgarden (Germany) and Røby (Denmark) ferry, the second from Copenhagen to Gothenburg with the ferry over the Øresund from Kronborg (Helsingør) in Denmark to Helsingborg in Sweden.

The Hamburg – Copenhagen train was overnight in a carriage with couchettes. The journey was relatively short and although the train arrived in Copenhagen at about 05.00, one was allowed to stay in the carriage until about 06.30 or so which allowed for breakfast in the station buffet before boarding the onward connection for Gothenburg in Sweden that left at 07.34.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/CopenhagenStation_zps7a5cda5c.jpg


This shows the 07:34 Stockholm and Gothenburg train (“The Vikingen”) waiting at Copenhagen to depart for Gothenburg.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/TrainjoiningFerry1_zps4bed4117.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/TrainCarriageonFerry-KronborgCastleBackground_zps8f3f7f9d.jpg


The ferry on the Øresund from Kronborg (Helsingør) in Denmark to Helsingborg in Sweden (with Hamlet's castle in the background)

I’d been instructed to ring Volvo’s Tourist Delivery Centre when the train arrived at Gothenburg and they responded by sending a car to collect me from the station and take me to Volvo’s Tourist Delivery Centre. Volvo’s delivery service worked well and the formalities were dealt with efficiently.
The banker’s draft was handed over, documents checked etc. and the BFG number plates and GB sticker affixed. This took a little while but the icing on the cake, and totally unexpected was that Volvo had arranged a free overnight stay in a Gothenburg hotel which allowed for a bit of sightseeing and the chance to have a good Swedish meal (with fish of course!). So the next day after an early breakfast I departed Gothenburg south towards Copenhagen (200-miles) my next planned night stop.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/VolvoTrouristDeliveryCentre1974_zps62e033f6.jpg


Taking delivery of my new Volvo at the Volvo Tourist Delivery Centre.

I took delivery in June. The weather was absolutely gorgeous and being mid-summer I was pleasantly surprised by the strong sunlight and almost Mediterranean look of the Kattegat as I travelled south down the west coast of Sweden to Helsingborg to take the car-ferry back over the Øresund to Helsingør in Denmark.

The west coast of Sweden had absolutely stunning scenery as seen below


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden1_zpsaa5914ee.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden_zps45f9732c.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/WestCoastofSweden2_zps65439ab6.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Volvo%20Collection%201974/BusyOslashresund_zps434c672f.jpg


In 1974 the Sweden to Denmark ferries over the Øresund were reputed to be the busiest in the world, probably right as my photo shows.

Damn, I was 10 years too late, it was all far too serious by my time!!!

What a magnificent adventure!

[DON T]

BFG car number plates in early 80s used to have 2 letters, followed by 3 numbers followed by the letter B. These were issued in alphabetical order. When they reached a certain point it was rumoured that the BFG registration office had a number of letters requesting ‘Please don’t give me VD.’

Later when they got to the end of the alphabet the plates changed to 3 letters, followed by 3 numbers and a letter B. At Laarbruch a Sgt who had just bought a new German car requested the reg no starting with BMW, he managed to be given BMX because he was a touch too late.😂

[MightyGem]

Detmold [pongoes] had genuine freezing rain most winters, real evil stuff that coated all surfaces with mirror-smooth ice within minutes.
Remember that. Not all the aircraft were dragged in to the hanger in time.

[It's Not Working]

For a bottle of gin I managed to get VW940B on a VW, my last 3 was 940. Has anybody mentioned vodka in the windscreen washer bottle? Much cheaper than the proper stuff thanks to coupons. It didn’t freeze, oh those winters, but neither did it clean the windows very well.

[ShyTorque]

Back in UK from RAF Germany on leave I parked my BFG registered car outside the local post office and went into a shop. On my return a few minutes later I found a traffic warden writing out a ticket. I asked her what she was doing and she told me in a very aggressive tone that it was because I wasn't displaying a tax disc. I explained to her that it wasn't a UK registered car but she told me that as far as she was concerned, again in an aggressive tone, that it was right hand drive and displaying a UK registration plate (it had a BFG plate, not a UK one). She insisted on putting the ticket under the windscreen wiper. I said I couldn't actually display a tax disc without the car being on the UK register but she then told me I was going to end up in court and she marched off.

I was so incensed I drove round to the local police station, only a couple of streets away, to ask their advice. When I explained the situation the desk sergeant offered me the use of his waste paper bin, which I took advantage of. I must be one of the few people ever to be encouraged to use a police waste bin to throw away a parking ticket.

[Linedog]

After 46 years I still remember my BFG plate, LS 543B on a harvest gold 1750 Austin Maxi.

Oh no it isn't 46 years, it's 42 years. It must be something to do with all that German beer.

[Akrotiri bad boy]

ALH 20 B
A Mk III Cortina in a rather fetching RAF MQ windowsill blue:cool:, hand brushed courtesy of a chum in station workshops.

[sittingstress]

The closeness of friends and acceptance of the extraordinary:

LBH 90, Mrs Stress was heavily pregnant and we lived in Goch. One summer Saturday morning we drove onto camp to grab some essentials from the NAAFI shop. Whilst wandering around we happened across 4 blokes (fellow Rocks) all dressed in barbour jackets and clearly worse the wear from the previous nights excess.

We said hallo, had a quick natter and queued up to pay for our goods. We then witnessed 3 leaving with game pockets bulging and clinking and giggling like idiots.

We returned to our tax free Ford Orion 1.6 Ghia i in bright red (oh yes!!!) and found said 3 master criminals sitting on the roof. Whilst I enquired as to what they were doing the 4th returned with a screw together BBQ, 8 bread rolls, 8 beef burgers and crate of beer.

The journey to Goch was cramped and the weekend disappeared into a drunken haze. I took our 4 house guests back to camp with me on Monday morning and that was that. It all seemed so normal.

Many, many happy and outrageous times as an SAC rock on 37 Sqn RAF Regiment at BRU and a GDT JNCO at LBH.

I came back to the UK with a wife, a daughter, the Orion and a schrank!!

Oh and my first car out there was an AUDI GT5S Coupe in Sunburst Orange, WA 501 B.

[Vendee]

I remember early 90's that BFBS put out an April fools spoof that all tax free perks for forces personnel were to disappear at midnight. I fell for it. The main NAAFI was closed for the day so I headed to the singlies NAAFI shop. It was full to bursting with blokes stripping the shelves bare. The NAAFI staff just stood back in amazement. Despite not drinking spirits myself, I bought a bottle of scotch and a bottle of brandy. I think I've still got the Asbach somewhere. :ugh:

[goudie]

In 1955, posted to RAF Wahn, Travelled from Harwich to Hook of Holland on a troopship,which was very overcrowded. At about 5 am I went up on deck for some fresh air, the ship was at a standstill but there were lights twinkling in the distance, Holland, I thought and went scurrying down numourous steps to tell my mates. The five of us stood on deck feeling excited at the prospect of being in a foreign country when the ships tannoy crackled into life to inform us that the ship had broken down, we were just outside Harwich and would be returning that morning! We eventually went over the following night.
After living in freezing wooden huts in the UK Goch, where we went to first, was a paradise.

[BEagle]

When I had a short holding session between Gnat and Hunter courses, it was at Wildenrath. Having arrived by AAC Beaver, which confused the admin folk who couldn't understand how I'd reached the Gen Office with no record of travel, I learned that I needed a BFG driving licence.

So I was given the book to read before taking the tick test. I noticed that the chap who was marking it simply used a sheet of paper with holes in it, which was placed over the answer sheet - if all the holes showed ticks, you passed. But he hadn't realised that if you weren't sure and ticked 2 boxes, provided that one was correct you still passed....:rolleyes:

Having passed the tick test first time, much to the surprise of my boss, I was permitted to drive off-camp in HM's Landrovers as my FMT 600 still showed 'Landrover'. Which was quite useful.

The BFG licence was valid for 3 years. So when I came over in a Vulcan for a weekend, we were able to book a hire car from NAAFI or somesuch for the weekend as my BFG was still just valid. Only trouble was that it took them ages to do the paperwork and the Captain was train-critical - he needed a lift to Moenchengladbach station. So I dropped the crew at the OM then sought out the route on the tatty map I'd been given whilst the Captain did a quick change, then off we went. Having dropped him at the station with about 10 min to spare, I had the joys of driving back in the rush hour...still in my immersion suit. On arriving back at Wildenrath I went to get my room key from reception, but was 'encouraged' into the bar for a few Charlies.

Ever tried getting out of an immersion suit whilst the room is spinning after too many Charlies? I have - and it's not to be recommended!

[NutLoose]

Bruggen first night in the NAAFI with the other arrivals and stunned at the prices, when the bar shuts we stagger outside and ask the taxi driver to take us off camp to where there is some life and an open bar...
Short ride later he drops us off and points at door.. In we go to a pitch black bar.... sounds of a projector firing up and a flickering porn movie appears on the wall, followed by a group of well past their sell by date ladies of the night... Rapid departure ensues and another taxi sorted.



..

[99 Change Hands]

In we go to a pitch black bar.... sounds of a projector firing up and a flickering porn movie appears on the wall, followed by a group of well past their sell by date ladies of the night...

Not the Pigalle by any chance? Elderly local punters disappearing behind the scenes with ladies and returning to the bar by the other door - straight into the beam of the projector. Bottles of 'champagne' called Piccolo available to purchase from the barman, calling himself Niccolo would you believe, to keep the ladies in conversation.

Sqn Ldr D***** talking to the middle-aged lady with the duelling scar on her cheek that glistened in the light from the screen on the wall. Fg Off H*****, the adjutant, looking on in rapt attention and later interviewed by the plods because the place was being used by the East Germans for recruiting 'helpers.'

[NutLoose]

One and the same... :D The East Germans must have been running the place on a thongstring budget.

Wasn't Pops and Eddies supposed to be similar?


..

[Simplythebeast]

Laarbruch 1973 to 1976.Dont remember anything else.

[Simplythebeast]

After 46 years I still remember my BFG plate, LS 543B on a harvest gold 1750 Austin Maxi.

Oh no it isn't 46 years, it's 42 years. It must be something to do with all that German beer.
I too was conned into buying a Harvest Gold Austin Maxi ( from Rankins of Reydt) while serving at Laarbruch in 1974. It was great for exactly one year and then became a money pit costing more in parts and hours than it had cost to buy! The second time the engine siezed was just as I was parking up outside of the role bay. It was a Friday and I was able to use the hoist in the bay to take out the engine and then fully disassemble it, remove the broken crankshaft,borrow a mate’s VW Beetle to get me to Rotterdam and the ferry to UK, train to Walsall, exchange Crankshaft for new one , train, ferry and car back to Laarbruch, then reassemble the engine, hoist it in and drive the car out of the roll bay by the Monday morning deadline set by the Flight Sgt. Happy Days.

[NutLoose]

Flying out to Gut on a Puma trip I wondered why the loadie was carrying a heavyish bag with him, opened up he reveals the motor from his washing machine, the factory was in Gut and even allowing for airfares that he wasn't paying, it was cheaper to fly to the factory and exchange it than do it in the UK.

[Finningley Boy]

Good heavens I've created a monster!:ok:

Many thanks for all the responses, I'll be in touch in turn shortly via PM.

Best Regards,

FB:)

[langleybaston]

One and the same... :D The East Germans must have been running the place on a thongstring budget.

Wasn't Pops and Eddies supposed to be similar?


..

ISTR Pops and Eddies near JHQ? Wegberg was it?

[Crromwellman]

Pops and Eddies was in Ricklerath village which was near Wegberg. Noted for many a drunken carousing night. Not to be confused with The Shack that was in Leloh and noted as the habitat of members of the Women's Royal Armoured Corps!

[kaitakbowler]

1981, Audi 80 GLS, 14,642DM from Intercars in Brunssum. Our first car with a 5 speed box, great autobahn cruiser.

[denachtenmai]

Mid 60's, mid morning landed at Laarbruch, in our Hastings, swiftly followed by two Op. Canberras.

Wondered why all VASF bods were wandering around with gas masks on, bearing in mind that any evaluations/Mickey Finns/Micks didn't apply to 51:E

Got shouted at for walking down to SHQ to change money, got the same from the snoops walking back, in fact got shouted at a lot whilst the Taceval was on.:eek:

Were on very good terms with the lads from VASF though, as we used to take a large jar of NAAFI coffee every time we went there, which was quite often, loved Laarbruch.:ok:

[Danny42C]

Is there anybody ex-RAFG who didn' t go for a look at the Moehne Dam while out there ?

[langleybaston]

I doubt it.

My first visit [from EDUO] with family was rendered marvellous by a low and slow Canberra "this would be the way Guy Gibson did it ............." pass.
The air became very dusty and I lost the power of speech briefly.

I think these passes were a NO NO for safety and political reasons, but they happened, they happened.

In those days the scar in the dam was very discernible, but time has mellowed it.

We were two car loads of Brits, one with UK plates, one with the old BFG plates, and yet we were welcomed in a restaurant near the dam, fed and watered, and my brother-in-laws wallet, left behind on the table, was presented to him when he hurtled back half an hour later.

[langleybaston]

We all knew that coffee was a valid currency, but beans?

Heinz baked beans, c. 1990.
In the JHQ NAAFI I came across one of my lads with about 50 large size tins of beansin the trolley.

Curiosity overcame me [it usually does]

He explained that they were:

a. regarded as a delicacy
b. difficult to buy on the local economy [?????????? what?????????]
c. for a German friend's 51st birthday, a tin for every year.

You couldn't make it up.

[Exrigger]

Chinook deployments from Gutersloh to many a farmer’s fields was an interesting experience to say the least, and occasionally we could actually use the buildings, always thought it odd to practice putting tents up inside a building, but it was an extra layer of protection in winter, although keeping a bottle of Harveys Bristol cream sherry next to a paraffin heater to keep it warm was also beneficial, allegedly.

After 4 years and lots of things happening, I thought this tale might be one of the least controversial, although there was many more, some not for public dissemination.

For one such jolly I was volunteered to be the lead truck in the convoy, which meant you had to apparently know where you were going as everyone followed you, I tried to tell them that my navigation skills in UK were not to be experienced so what hope had I in Germany, but the management insisted.

Set off driving four ton truck and trailer with young man as spare driver, even though he had no licence, common cost saving exercise apparently, several miles from Gutersloh I carried on at a set of lights and noted that contrary to convoy rules everyone else turned right, said to my 'left hand' man "I think we should of turned right back there" followed by an attempt at buck passing "you have the map and route", as the senior rank thought that might work.

Assuming correctly that I had no idea where I was going, I decided to turn down a side road though I did not notice the German sign for ‘no lorries’, stopped outside a house at a junction and tried to reverse trailer and truck around the corner so I could turn around, unfortunately the road was not wide enough. Decided to unhitch the trailer and the two of us tried to shift it, no dice as one could imagine, thankfully, despite finding the situation highly amusing, a couple of blokes from the nearby house came and helped us and we were back on our way. Finally caught up with the rest, as they had stopped for a break and see if I could catch up, which I managed to, though I did suggest that I should not try leading a convoy again, thankfully it was not pushed, and I was never asked again.

The race back to Gutersloh at ‘endex’ was fun, as despite convoy rules it was every person for themselves to get back, truck sorted, parked, hit the bar occasionally and then home.

Great times overall, great BBQs, mess functions, experiences never to be had again with the making of future war stories for the telling, and mostly good people to work with, in a great environment.

[gzornenplatz]

There was an interesting time when BFG plates reached SR and there was much discussion on whether they'd produce the dreaded SS. Problem solved, a quick hurdle to ST solved it.
And Danny, no, it was a rite of passage.

[Four Turbo]

Wildenrath 1961. New boy on first day as Orderly Officer (No. 1 Uniform all day) . Issued with a VW (proper OLD Beetle). Evening tasks included going to the other side of the airfield to 'inspect' RAF police on outer perimeter of (nuclear) bomb dump. Left the bar around 2130 to drive around LONG dark peri track; arrived. 'Halt, who goes there?'. 'Orderly Officer' . 'Put your ID on the ground and retire 10 metres' . Did so and was eventually admitted to police hut. Sergeant says 'Would you like to continue your inspection Sir?'. Stupidly I said 'Yes'. (Can YOU see what is coming??) 'Follow me'. Did so through pitch blackness stumbling over roots and grass. From the dark - 'Halt, who goes there?'. xxx. 'Put your ID on the ground and retire 10 metres' Did so and fell over into long grass. Highly amused policeman (with snarling dog) helps me up and points me onward. Took nearly half an hour and about ten challenges before I was shown the way back to the hut. Sergeant is waiting with a welcome tea - and a request 'Sir, please do not tell the next new boy!' Drove back to mess bar covered in mud and grass to be welcomed with howls of mirth. Happy days - and TACEVAL had not been invented. Mike Turner (17 Sqn PR Canberras)

[The Nip]

ALH 20 B
A Mk III Cortina in a rather fetching RAF MQ windowsill blue:cool:, hand brushed courtesy of a chum in station workshops.

SE 856 B on a white Ford Fiesta. Managed to get bucket loads of parking tickets all over the U.K., never paid any of them. Even a few in Trier, Koblenz etc.

[The Nip]

In about 88/89 the Forces Echo had a letter from a ‘concerned officer’. He stated that there should be a checkout cashier (JHQ NAAFI). solely for use by officers during lunchtimes. He complained that it was important that they are not queuing for a long time as they needed to to get back to work.

This letter produced hundreds of responses from irate people. Despite it being discussed on BFBS I never knew if it was a wind up or not.

[BEagle]

Danny42C wrote: Is there anybody ex-RAFG who didn' t go for a look at the Moehne Dam while out there ?

Well, in 1983 I was on 'EX BOLD GAUNTLET' at Gutersloh, on detachment from Suphpholk's phinest AD station. On precisely the 40th anniversary of the Dams Raid, I was flying one of HM's mighty Phantoms (not very well) and, for once, happened to be in the right place at the right time!

So we flew past the castle by the Eder, down to 250 ft, across the dam, then climbed out. Seemed like fun, so did it again. Then another jet joined us, so we did a pairs flypast... I recall that there were people waving (I think) from the castle. Then home for tea at Gutersloh.

Mentioned it to the SNavO when we were chatting later and he went rather white. He dug out something called 'Manuel de vol a basse altitude' (not something we air defenders had bothered with before) and pointed out that we weren't supposed to use the dams as a turning point or overfly them at low level. Strengsten Verboten, we were told!!

"Good job we didn't tell him about saying hello to the Moehne Dam on the way home, then!" I remarked to my nav after the SNavO has left...:eek:

But no-one ever complained!

[lsh]

Wasn't there a bank robbery too when an airman during NBC Black walked into the bank, held it up with his weapon, stuffed the pockets of his NBC kit full of money then walked out to join the rest of the weapon carrying Gas Mask ( I can call it that now ) and NBC kitted throng... the failure in the cunning plan, he had his name rank and bloodgroup taped across the front of his NBC kit as you do..

True!

Not helped by his choice of getaway car "police are looking for a fawn Allegro"!

It was on the BFBS TV!

lsh
:E

[lsd]

First time in RAFG in '68 and couldn't resist a flight over the Mohne Dam - and it still remains a highlight of my times there until '76. Mind you, at a height of 60 ft and 120 kts the Wessex hardly resembled a Lancaster (noise and vibration excepted), and being in daylight reduced the tension somewhat. Whatever, on the pull-up over the basin the thought was "WTF, respect guys, that is bloody low for a 100 ft wingspan"
Not a peep from the authorities at Gutersloh on return. However, the locals down town were not RAF fans - allegedly a strong recruiting base for the SS a few years earlier, yet any conversation with them had them all professing to have spent their war on the Eastern Front.

[Green Flash]

Another EDUO/Mohne story. I was at the outbrief of the BAE Mossie crew returning home after an airshow. Monday morning so it'll be VFR around the top of the Ruhr, zip over southern Netherlands, lob into Koksijde for gas, over the Channel and home. Which was the route we presumed they would be going.
'Thanks chaps, but we detour south a little while to begin with, then we'll pick up the route west of Soest'
And two of the widest grins in the world went to strap in.
The sound of lightly thrashed Merlins turning in from the eastern end of the Mohnesee .... ah, I see you are allready ahead of me :E

[Lyneham Lad]

First tour at Brueggen (can't do umlauts at the mo') in 1970, early-twenties single Cpl techie. Bought a superb autobahn cruiser (Citroen DS21) from the dealer just outside Elmpt. The owner of the dealership was English and told me he had been a Flt Lt MTO and had bought the garage after winning the lottery.

What a car that was - happy to sit at the ton, cruising down the autobahns, autoroutes etc etc. I was supposed to be living-in but you know how it is... Scurrying back from Duesseldorf along the 230(?) early one morning and approaching Niederkruetchten I was caught out by black ice (roads were never salted) & ended up in the middle of a ploughed field. Had it not been for the long-travel hydraulic suspension of the DS21 I would have done multiple barrel-rolls, instead of which it bunny-hopped across the field. Cost me quite a few beer-chits for MT to come along with a wrecker to drag it across the field and hoik it back on the road... Poor old car was never quite the same afterwards.

My 2 1/2 yr singlie tour turned into a 3 year tour and tour-ex I returned home with wife, baby son and a lovely Renault 16TS (twin-choke Webers and an electric sun-roof!). :ok:

[charliegolf]

Mind you, at a height of 60 ft and 120 kts the Wessex hardly resembled a Lancaster .

At 120 kts it hardly resembles a Wessex (said the Puma blokey)!:ok:

CG

[Vendee]

In those days the scar in the dam was very discernible, but time has mellowed it.



I could make out the damage in the early 80's but couldn't make it out 10 years later. I don't think it was just my eyes. :hmm:

[Simplythebeast]

I could make out the damage in the early 80's but couldn't make it out 10 years later. I don't think it was just my eyes. :hmm:

Pah.....it was still smoking in the early seventies.:*

[Fareastdriver]

I was in on a short visit from Odiham to Gutersloh when I was flying Pumas on 33 Squadron. Gut had 18 Sqn with Wessex at the time and for some reason Mickey Martin, o/ic RAF Germany asked for a ride to see what one was like.

I knew Mickey personally as he had been the first to arrive when Chunky Lord and myself wrote off a Whirlwind when he was AOC 38 Group.

Off we went with him in the LHS and I demonstrated rotor tip vortices when you were close up to trees and then I took him low level (50 ft.) on the Dambuster's track on the Moehne Dam.

It was a favour returned. I got away with the prang and Chunky only got an admonishment.

[Beancountercymru]

Talking of RAFG, those of an older generation will recall Two Way Family Favourites with songs from/to boys in BFPO this or BFPO that rather than the name of the base.

I've often wondered was a BFPO number particular to a base or unit and did it follow said unit on its travels?

[Green Flash]

British Forces Post Office numbers stayed with the geographical location, units came and went.

[Danny42C]

Beancountercymru (#104),

I think they related to the station or other locality.

Danny.

[ShyTorque]

I too flew the Mohnesee "bombing run", as many did. Due to the terrain, even in a helicopter at 140 kts it wasn't easy to get the height down to the required 60' by day, let alone by night. How they did it in a heavily laden Lancaster while being shot at.....

We never heard any comeback on my slight indiscretion. Nor about our later one at the Edersee when more than one aircraft had to land when caught out by freezing fog, but that's another story.

[langleybaston]

Then there was the dreaded mehrwertsteuer, the German equivalent of VAT. For airmen, this was administered by the PSI, who nominally made/ legalised the tax-free purchase, and debited the airman. Known as a "murgatroyd" by those who found the language challenging.

Officers worked through the Mess, and paid [or defaulted] on their mess bills.
Lets see: Schrank, set of chairs, corner seating unit, top of the range camera and full set of lenses, ornate lamps, clothing. Drink, kassler, cheeses ......

The lawnmower and the Weber [both still going strong] were via the PX, the peanut butter from the Maple Leaf.

Army garrison towns such as Detmold were very very anti accepting such tax-free business until it was explained that "this is by an RAF mess". My wife still has the loden overcoats.

[finningleyprince]

I can remember an incident at Laarbruch where two scrotes cut a hole in the Station fence, to get off to a pub.
By all accounts the SWO clocked them, pinned them dow and got the Feds in. The base had interesting weapons and two scrotes tried to take a shortcut off base, leaving a gaping hole in the fence!

[cynicalint]

Took my wartime pilot dad to the Dam and the cemetry near Laarbruch where he visited the graves of those pilots he trained with involved in the crossing of the Rhine, very emotional. However, my main memory is of organising the hosting of visiting aircrew for the last airshow at Laarbruch before it closed. The barbecue at the airfield flying club, free beers for the weekend and free tickets to all evening attractions, including the pool party and Naafi bop. I had to defend the expense to the air day commitee the following morning, but it was a cheap price to pay for the outstanding flying and static displays that were the main attraction that brought in many locals for the day. It was a good farewell for many locals and service folk alike

[Onceapilot]

Flown the Mohne and the Eder dams in the Tornado. Hats off to the 617 Lancaster crews. Very brave attacks. Getting the weapons on the Eder dam was a particularly incredible feat.

OAP

[Vendee]

Took my wartime pilot dad to the Dam and the cemetry near Laarbruch where he visited the graves of those pilots he trained with involved in the crossing of the Rhine, very emotional.

That's the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery. It is an emotional place but its also a very tranquil and serene place. It's beautifully maintained, as it should be.

I made a few private visits there but also volunteered to attend a formal event during my squadron's 75th anniversary (XV Squadron). Quite a few former members came over to Laarbruch for the weekend. There was a big hangar party on the Saturday night and on the Sunday morning, those that were not too hung over turned out at the Reichwald for a ceremony.

There are about a dozen or so XV Sqn aircrew buried at the Reichwald so each of those graves was marked by a current squadron member of the same rank, standing behind the headstone. It was a beautiful spring morning and a very, very emotional occasion.

[roving]

That's the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery. It is an emotional place but its also a very tranquil and serene place. It's beautifully maintained, as it should be.



https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2003400/REICHSWALD%20FOREST%20WAR%20CEMETERY

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results/?cemetery=REICHSWALD+FOREST+WAR+CEMETERY&tab=wardead&fq_servedwithliteral=United+Kingdom&fq_warliteral=2&fq_servedinliteral=Air+Force

[glad rag]

That's the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery. It is an emotional place but its also a very tranquil and serene place. It's beautifully maintained, as it should be.

I made a few private visits there but also volunteered to attend a formal event during my squadron's 75th anniversary (XV Squadron). Quite a few former members came over to Laarbruch for the weekend. There was a big hangar party on the Saturday night and on the Sunday morning, those that were not too hung over turned out at the Reichwald for a ceremony.

There are about a dozen or so XV Sqn aircrew buried at the Reichwald so each of those graves was marked by a current squadron member of the same rank, standing behind the headstone. It was a beautiful spring morning and a very, very emotional occasion.

A Reichwald visit was my first to a large war cemetery. Writing about it now has raised the goosebumps some 30 years on, it was the lack of bird song, once I realised it, that put a shiver down my spine....

[Finningley Boy]

Is there anybody ex-RAFG who didn' t go for a look at the Moehne Dam while out there ?

Yep, me!:ok:

FB:)

[Warmtoast]

Moehne Dam

Didn't get to fly over it, but went over it on foot in 1973 - as below.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/MoumlhneSee1973_1280x865_zps36672918.jpg

[Dougie M]

I first visit the dam in 1960 as an army brat on a mo-ped ( All the rage at the time ) Reg: MO 10 B. You could certainly see the join then. I went back to sail the mohne See in dinghies when at Laarbruch fourteen years later in my Peugeot 504 Reg: JE 605 B and the join had faded. Nobody in Soest seemed to be upset by presence of the Brits by then.

[Onceapilot]

Is there anybody ex-RAFG who didn' t go for a look at the Moehne Dam while out there ?

Maybe. But, visiting from the air was particularly exciting. Did the same for many other aerial and ground WW2 "battle scenes". Always tried to honour those who had been involved in conflict. :sad:

OAP

[ShyTorque]

Nobody in Soest seemed to be upset by presence of the Brits by then.When I visited on foot in 1980 I decided to try to keep a very low profile - until I discovered the locals were keen to sell you postcards of the dam as it was just after the raid!

[Treble one]

The Keil Canal bridge, and RAFG flights underneath it, caused much consternation at HQ at one point during the 1950's, from what I was told....

[NutLoose]

Lands at Wildenrath to refuel and wandering down the main drag after nipping to the NAAFI gets pulled over for wearing my combat jacket by the SWO, one sided conversation about only to be worn on detachments or exercise blah blah, but I am is my reply, that threw him, so next an invite to get a haircut and visit him at xyz time.... Righto says I as I wander back up to the apron climb aboard and depart for the UK.

[NutLoose]

Two bright sparks skinny dipping at Bruggen and spotted by the RAFP hopped over the fence starkers to suddenly realise they were now in no mans land between the borders.

[1.3VStall]

RAF Gutersloh, early 1970s. One of the barmen in the Officers' Mess was a German: Willi.

Detachment of 6 x Italian F104s to Gut, so cue 19 Sqn pilot, who spoke the lingo, to be appointed O i/c Italians.

Five days into the detachment, said 19 Sqn pilot rushes into OM bar one evening and says to assembled throng "has anyone seen the Italian officers?"

Willi's droll response was "yes, sir ve had the same problem during ze var!"

Brought the house down!

[bonajet]

Re Treble One’s post at 119. The story I heard was that CinC RAFG was on holiday when he saw a roadside notice by a cafe/bar saying “Come and watch the crazy Englanders fly under the bridge”. He parked and went in for a coffee/drink with his wife and only had to wait half an hour before a Canberra whizzed under the bridge. Not too sure of the outcome!
Again from the 60s - who knows the real story behind the stealing or borrowing of a steam locomotive near Hamburg?

[Treble one]

Re Treble One’s post at 119. The story I heard was that CinC RAFG was on holiday when he saw a roadside notice by a cafe/bar saying “Come and watch the crazy Englanders fly under the bridge”. He parked and went in for a coffee/drink with his wife and only had to wait half an hour before a Canberra whizzed under the bridge. Not too sure of the outcome!
Again from the 60s - who knows the real story behind the stealing or borrowing of a steam locomotive near Hamburg?



Much the same story bonajet, and it wasn't just Canberras-they were at it in Meteors and Vampires too.


The specific story I heard was from the OC of a FR squadron and it involved 2 very curt 'hats on, no coffee' interviews for himself at HQ and even back at the Air Ministry in London-with two severe b*llockings for his trouble.


Apparently CinC RAFG sent his aide to said bridge to orbit around and find out what was going on. Whilst orbiting a number of assets were seen underflying the bridge!


A signal went out to all stations the next day....

[Vendee]

In the early 80's at Wittering, I was locking up the APU engine test bed after civvy contractors had been doing some alterations. I spotted what turned out to be blue asbestos coming out of the walls and the test bed was out of action for a couple of months. We then had to take our APU's to Gutersloh to use their test bed. We would take across 6 engines at a time and spend a week there.

The airman's transit accommodation was dire but luckily in short supply so the drill was to phone the guardroom and ask if they had any transit beds. You did this several times until the guardroom staff said there were no transit beds. You then presented to the OO who gave you a chit for a hotel in Gutersloh town. You checked out the next morning and repeated the same performance the next day. If you were lucky, you could spend the whole det in a hotel but once you were in transit, you stayed there :sad:

We used to get 6 Harrier GTS/APU's into a sherpa for the drive over. Once we got the engines serviceable, we crammed a carton of duty free cigs into each intake, boxed them up and sent them back to Wittering through the stores system (1). We then loaded up the empty sherpa with crates of Wobbly/DAB/Bitburger etc for the trip home. Happy days indeed. :ok:

(1) The engines always travelled back to wittering under a u/s F731 so there was no danger of them getting fitted to an aircraft with 200 cigs in the intake, not that you could miss the carton of cigs once the intake blank was removed.

[Fareastdriver]

Off thread a bit:

I was on a long detachment to the Far East on Valiant tankers. On landing our aircraft XD 814 was due for a Minor Servicing so on shutdown it was towed into the hanger. There was a sudden panic and another aircraft on the detachment, XD 815, was towed in the other end accompanied by a HM Customs Rummage Crew.

The were there for about four hours supervising out ground crew taking off every panel and checking every orifice. Finding nothing they departed.

Once around the corner XD 814 exploded!

[BEagle]

Back when we were still allowed to decide our own sortie profiles on the VC10K OCU course, we used to run a nice little 'day trip to Germany' - co-pilot's IRT on the way out, captain's IRT on the way home. Take-off at 10:00, 12:00-14:00 on the ground at a clutch station, depart at 14:00 and land at around 16:00. We used to offer 10 seats to stn pax - the criteria being that they wouldn't normally have an opportunity to fly and that their section must have done something useful for 241 OCU or the squadron - all legal and above board. Thus we often took 2 from 5 different sections - Ops, Admin, Squippers, ATC, MT, Regt or whoever; so we were quite popular around the station.

Then some Wg Cdr out to make a name for himself decided that only HE would approve the passengers - we didn't have any say in the matter...:ugh: So one day some pongo Woopert turned up, announcing that he was on our flight. Pompous sod that he was, he expected to be treated like royalty even though he was a mere captain.

The first thing which got his attention was the simulated engine failure at V1 (allowed in those days), followed by a 3-eng hold, ILS and go-around, into airways and a couple of approaches in Germany. We didn't carry ALMs on the VC10K, but someone came along as cabin supervisor (CS aka 'trolley-tart'). "Eh seh", piped up the pongo after the first approach at Wildenrath, "Whey aren't we landin'?". So the CS told him that there was probably a technical issue and we might have to fly straight back to Brize. Woopert went into low earth orbit for a while...until we landed and handed him over to the movers, the CS having told them that he was their only customer as everyone else was going back to Brize - but that he'd been an utter PITA! "Leave him to us, mate", said the MovOff with a wink....

Sadly the 'double IRT and NAAFI run' trips stopped as the RAFG clutch wound down and we were told that henceforth we could only use UK military aerodromes for the OCU IRTs...:(

Before customs rules were relaxed, truckies had a very restricted duty free allowance. When coming back from ACMI at Deci once, we were offloaded at Gutersloh whilst some stretcher bound chap was loaded on board - complete with a medical team. As I we were let back onto the aircraft, I was somewhat appalled to hear the VC10 nav asking the poor sod on the stretcher, who was hooked up to a drip, "Are you taking back a bottle and 200?"...:sad:

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Well here's some:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1526706598/sr=1-1/qid=1500921225/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1500921225&sr=1-1

Bloggs

[ian16th]

Off thread a bit:

I was on a long detachment to the Far East on Valiant tankers. On landing our aircraft XD 814 was due for a Minor Servicing so on shutdown it was towed into the hanger. There was a sudden panic and another aircraft on the detachment, XD 815, was towed in the other end accompanied by a HM Customs Rummage Crew.

The were there for about four hours supervising out ground crew taking off every panel and checking every orifice. Finding nothing they departed.

Once around the corner XD 814 exploded!

And the next one, XD816 was the last Valiant in the RAF!

[bspatz]

As OC Supply at Wildenrath I had a large contingent of locally employed Germans working in the Barrack Stores. They were a bright, cheerful, hard working bunch and I can recall on one occasion when visiting the stores, to check up on how things were running, being asked by one of the storemen if he could have the day off. On enquiring why he wanted this, he declared with a broad smile that as a youngster they always took this day off as it was Hitler’s birthday! Suffice to say that I declined his request.

[langleybaston]

For a JHQ nostalgia trip have a look at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If6gUGFO4Pc

If6gUGFO4Pc

[Dougie M]

Very sad and depressing, nobody there. It has the mood of Thirty Days Later. The end of an era. Many memories stirred by this clip.

[NRU74]

Off thread a bit:

There was a sudden panic and another aircraft on the detachment, XD 815, was towed in the other end accompanied by a HM Customs Rummage

The place for the contraband was on top of that deflector thingie at the rear of the bomb bay. Trouble was you had to get someone to hang in the bomb bay with the booze etc and after closing the bomb doors the deflector came down, lash the stuff to the top of it and open the bomb doors again to let said volunteer out. Then repeat the reverse operation back in the UK.

[MightyGem]

jYDBMjvqMlM

[Fareastdriver]

The place for the contraband was on top of that deflector thingie at the rear of the bomb bay

I found out about that during one of the closing parties when the Valiants were scrapped. XD 214 inventory was in my name and the chief tech, whose name I will not disclose, in charge of the aircraft filled me in with the details.

It was obviously a favourite because all the hot and high takeoffs I did with that aeroplane would be on the nail at Acceleration Check Speed Speed and then use the last inch of calculated take off distance.

[charliegolf]

230 Sqn, days after my theatre qualification check (where the late Chris Fynes thoroughly debriefed me with, "You'll do!"), and I'm summoned to the Adj's office. Fynes and the Adj looking stern.

"Right young Golf, we have an important job for you... The Squadron is running out of fuel chits, so you and the pilot are flying down to the clutch to pick some up. Now these things are untraceble, so a thief's wet dream for black market sales. The pilot is planning, so get off to the armoury and draw a pistol and 10 rounds. Let me be clear, you may use the weapon if compromised- do not lose those coupons."

So, off I go bricking it, legging it down the stairs to grab my hat and off to the armoury. The penny only dropped when the man in the hatch asked, "Do you want a right handed pistol, or a left handed one?"

Welcome to 230!

CG

[lsh]

Well CG, I decided to plot all the fuel stations that took fuel coupons on a map and leave it with the sqn when I left.
Good Idea, huh?

I was well through the process when the NavO (SB) directed me to the bottom drawer and pulled-out.......an official BFG Fuel Map!!!

At least you were set-up!

lsh
:E

[langleybaston]

Another detachment to Gutersloh tale.

This was a French fighter [type?] c. 1970.

They stayed a week and were hugely successful with several wives in the Mess, such that several turned out to wave goodbye as the squadron taxied out.

Behind the scenes there was frantic activity by SWO and his minions, erasing the zaps that had been stencilled during the night.

These were very artistic representations of what I might call the flying cocks ............ a rampant winged penis with bulging gonads a-dangle.

The Met. Office shutters, being ground floor, received one such. Hearing that the jankers-wallahs were erasing them, we either removed the shutter or closed it [memory fails me as to this detail].

Either way, it survived, to be displayed to selected visitors along with the back of the old Luftwaffe stationery cupboard, complete with wartime swastika .

[Crromwellman]

In the early 1970s when II (AC) Sqn were on Phantoms I was detached from the Army photographic interpretation unit at Rheindahlen to the Laarbruch RIC for war role training. Besides myself there was the RIC's permanent Army SNCO photo interpreter (Ssgt X) who was a bit of a character and had been on the Guards All Arms Drill Course at Pirbright at some point which he could turn on and off at will. He took great delight in confirming the RAF's worst fears about the Army. Two incidents involving both him and myself come to mind:

The scene is the PI cabin where Ssgt X is waiting to debrief a crew. Enter stage right steely-eyed Phantom crew with the Nav looking at his aircrew watch.
Steely-eyed Nav to Ssgt X: Staff (at least he didn't say Flight) have you got the time?
Ssgt X (assuming Guards Drill Instructor persona): "Time Sir. Glad you asked that. Shows a keen, enquiring military mind. Time, Sir is always the same: ONE two-three ONE, moving on ONE and standing perfectly still on the regimental pause of two-three between the drill movements."
Exit steely-eyed Nav muttering about Army lunatics.

The other was during the end of day debrief that included a short equipment recognition test using 35mm slides. A slide of an Armoured Vehicle Launched Bridge (AVLB) is flashed up and the Squadron Recognition King points to a victim and asks What is it?
Victim: an MT-55 - this was a Soviet AVLB
Myself: Oh no its not, its an East German BLG-60 (similar to MT-55 but with significant differences) and then pointed out the differences amid much joshing from assembled aircrew.
Sqn Recognition King: How do you know that?
Myself: Because I took that photograph whilst covering an East German Army day parade in East Berlin.
Briefing dissolves into laughter but subsequently the Squadron Recognition King checks identifications with the RIC before he shows them to the Squadron

Part of some heady, if anarchic days with the RICs

[NutLoose]

RE post 138, I was in my small part responsible I believe for cleaning up the WRAF population...:E

True story..

Remember those foul smelling foot or so long brown curving bars of carbolic soap the RAF used to have everywhere, but no one used..

Well there was a WRAF friend who was having her 21st in the NAAFI and I pondered what I could get her.... Anyway I saw this bar of soap and a smile came over my face, I sat for a couple of evenings and carve a giant penis out of it, rubbing it with a bit of water took off the rough edges and polished it up nicely, a hole was drilled in the end, a cord was sourced and inserted, then heated liquid soap shavings poured in to form a soap on a rope giant penis..... I then sourced a pretty box and wrapped it nicely. The scene is set, and in front of all her friends she unwraps her presents, comes to mine and pulls out this giant dick, naturally I claimed I had modelled it on mine... to much laughter :( she was in heaven and wore it around her neck for the rest of the night.

Well, I thought that was the end of it, but for weeks afterwards I had WAAF's I'd never seen before coming up to me and sheepishly asking are you the guy that carves dicks, and could you make me one...... So much so the Squadron ran out of the soap and I had to source more, so if you were ever out at Bruggen when I was and you could smell carbolic soap on the local WAAF population, you now know why.


..

[ShyTorque]

A case of "Where's the soap?"

"Yes, it does"

[ShyTorque]

Place: North German Plain.

Time: Cold War, early 1980s.

Scenario: Field exercise, Berlin Regiment.
On the final day, impending "coup de gras".

Mad Major, running exercise, stated that he wants to be on the bridge to observe proceedings (all Army coups de grace seemed to involve a bridge). Unfortunately, he also wanted to be in the valley to the south to see the troops set off so he needed rapid transportation.

He announced to me (a fairly junior squadron helicopter pilot) that he wished to be transported sitting in his Land Rover, as an under slung load! He said that he would wear his seat belt, goggles and will be able to help us find the bridge by pointing the way!

While my senior officer (the late George Blackie) creased up, I pointed out three things:

Firstly, we already knew how to get to the bridge.

Secondly, Land Rovers, when carried as underslung loads, tend to spin round and round, so pointing would be totally meaningless and in any case, the pilot cannot see the underslung load from the cockpit.

Neither of those two things seemed to faze him.

Thirdly, I told him that in the case of an engine failure, the first thing I would do was to press the load release button....

He then said, sincerely, "In that case, maybe I'd better drive...."

He drove.

[Roadster280]

Then there was the dreaded mehrwertsteuer, the German equivalent of VAT. For airmen, this was administered by the PSI, who nominally made/ legalised the tax-free purchase, and debited the airman. Known as a "murgatroyd" by those who found the language challenging.

Officers worked through the Mess, and paid [or defaulted] on their mess bills.
Lets see: Schrank, set of chairs, corner seating unit, top of the range camera and full set of lenses, ornate lamps, clothing. Drink, kassler, cheeses ......

The lawnmower and the Weber [both still going strong] were via the PX, the peanut butter from the Maple Leaf.

Army garrison towns such as Detmold were very very anti accepting such tax-free business until it was explained that "this is by an RAF mess". My wife still has the loden overcoats.

Maybe in Detmold the local businesses preferred to do business the normal way. One obtained a tax exemption form for the intended purchase(s) from the Unit Admin Office, and then presented it to the retailer. They then sold you the goods ohne MwSt. Not through a Mess or the PRI. You paid the retailer. Sounds like it was different for the RAF, but the Army did it rather more straightforwardly.

Schrank, dining set, bedroom sets, cameras, computers, caravans (both in Germany and Holland), a car, numerous capital car repairs. All of it directly through the retailer with a tax-free chit.

The trick with the US bases was getting in the commissary. You could buy lawnmowers and barbies all day long at Spang or Bitburg, but getting steaks from the Commissary required a pass. You might get lucky trying your luck on the day, but the best bet was to visit a mate posted to a US base with a pass. These were generally not Spangdahlem or Bitburg, but they all had commissaries :)

[HAS59]

More BAOR than RAFG but still aviation related ...

Perhaps Crromwellman can give us the full story of the time when a drone (a proper drone) left the launch-rail and went straight up. The assembled crew looked on in amazement, until one of them realised that what goes straight up - also comes straight down!

[Krystal n chips]

Late 70's and 17 decide to have a weeks jolly to Memmingen, 2x Jags and six troops who are also to be cross trained on the F-104.

Enter the ever resourceful ( he of the " if we run a Jag outside the HAS in -20C the efflux will melt all the snow and ice ", which it did, before freezing solid, along the Jag, again fame ) J Engo who decides the troops can travel in the Commer van, used for generally carrying bodies and bits and which the programme "Scrapheap challenge " was possibly based on.

Just outside Cologne, on comes the pretty orange light, for the first time. ADAC comes to our rescue and, unknown to us, do some pre-planning. It's about 550km to Memmingen.....every 100 km, roughly, there was an ADAC patrol...... waiting.

Arrive, eventually, at destination and go to MT. The Germans, ever diplomatic, once they had stopped laughing having seen this relic, say we can't repair it. At which point, we produce the international currency, contained in a bottle with a red label, and explain that's fine, all we want is the paperwork to say it should be scrapped.

The Germans, now very happy, duly oblige with chapter and verse as to why the heap is a death trap. However, we still have to return and, to add to the fun, they are having a "Minival".....had this been the RAF, as we know, the admin world would have said " we're closed, there's a war on ! " and that would have been that.

Thankfully, the Germans were considerably more realistic and thus we were booked, tickets provided c/o the Luftwaffe, on the Munich-Amsterdam express from Ulm to Cologne. Very scenic, very hospitable and free !.

It was only once the heap had been returned to Bruggen, on a low loader, that the allegations of our clearly lamentable driving skills suddenly ceased.

[charliegolf]

One obtained a tax exemption form for the intended purchase(s) from the Unit Admin Office, and then presented it to the retailer. They then sold you the goods ohne MwSt. Not through a Mess or the PRI. You paid the retailer. Sounds like it was different for the RAF, but the Army did it rather more straightforwardly.



Nope, sounds exactly as I remember it, except we went (Gut) to the PSI shop and paid 5DM for the 'Peezi****' and went shopping.

CG

[Crromwellman]

More BAOR than RAFG but still aviation related ...

Perhaps Crromwellman can give us the full story of the time when a drone (a proper drone) left the launch-rail and went straight up. The assembled crew looked on in amazement, until one of them realised that what goes straight up - also comes straight down!

OK HAS59 I will rise to the bait.

Short explanation. The AN/USD-501 Midge drone was a Divisional Commander's personal photographic reconnaissance asset. It was a true drone in that its flight path was pre-programmed and once launched it followed that path. There was no way of intervening from the ground, unlike what the media call "drones." Hence the recognition features of drone personnel were crossed fingers and pleading looks skyward.

On the day in question a Drone Troop was live firing on the Hohne Ranges where the Germans had cleared them for live flying. Needless to say everything was checked, re-checked and checked again by the Artillery's Instructors in Gunnery and sundry others so nothing would go wrong.

The drone was launched from a zero-length rail and was boosted by a rocket motor until the turbojet could take over to sustain flight. Countdown was complete and the button was pressed. The turbojet spooled up and the booster fired. Instead of the normal climb to height, this drone leaped off the launcher and imitated a Harrier on steroids by rising vertically. As it reached the end of the boost phase the booster dropped away and toppled the drone past the vertical and it decided to head for home (the launcher). As the launch crew realised its destination there was a demonstration of that well known military manoeuvre - the abandonment in disorder. The drone crashed about 30 metres in front of the launcher, exploded and burst into flames. The largest surviving pieces were the camera pack and the turbojet engine, although several pieces of metal inscribed with "Heat Aged" were recovered'

The cause was never found but the theory was that the booster had not been fitted correctly and was slightly loose so when it fired it made the drone climb more rapidly. When to booster dropped away, it gave the airframe a kick that took it over the vertical and toppled the gyros.

Another occasion when all the good work is wiped out by one "oh s**t!

[Crromwellman]

The trick with the US bases was getting in the commissary. You could buy lawnmowers and barbies all day long at Spang or Bitburg, but getting steaks from the Commissary required a pass. You might get lucky trying your luck on the day, but the best bet was to visit a mate posted to a US base with a pass. These were generally not Spangdahlem or Bitburg, but they all had commissaries :)

When we used to go to conferences with our US counterparts we took lots and lots of Weetabix that the Americans could not get. This either got us into the Commissary and Class 6 store or our hosts purchased it on our behalf

[langleybaston]

Nope, sounds exactly as I remember it, except we went (Gut) to the PSI shop and paid 5DM for the 'Peezi****' and went shopping.

CG

My understanding, based on 13 years during 3 separate tours, is quite clear and unequivocal. RAF individuals or the Civilian Compoment subject to Air Force Law could not make duty free purchases directly. The notional purchaser was either the Mess or the PSI, and the individual duly reimbursed the Mess on the day of reckoning.

The army system as described, if it was indeed so, could make fraud astonishingly simple ............ the magic chit as described could pass into non-entitled hands "just like that".

As Mr Meldrew said "I do not believe it!".

[langleybaston]

Did anyone understand the X/Y factor regarding fuel and light? I was told that, as a civilian, I need not worry my overburdened brain cell, but my neighbours appeared exceeding vexed on occasion.

In the early days at Gutersloh we had mediaeval coke boilers in the cellar, prone to goining out in mid-winter when I was on the night bind at work.

Every now and then a delivery was tipped down the chute, the old boy doing the business using a system of balls on a rail to count the sacks.

After a too-successful mess do in black tie, I was locked out in the small hours and used the coke chute to get into the house. The theory was that on black gear the coke dust would not show. The black shirt gave the game away. That incident needed a lot of grovelling when we got back to communicating.

[BEagle]

The multi-national EX BOLD GAUNTLET ("Don't mention the word 'corridor' chaps!") was held at Gutersloh one year. Spams who took everything very seriously were there with their F-15s evolving clever tactics, we were there with our F-4s and a C-130 and the French were there with their Mirage III and a C-160 - to have a good time.

One evening we were having a few wets in the OM bar talking to the FAF pilotes de chasse. All of a sudden some wanton PMRAFNS trollop came over and put her arms around the waist of one FAF mate. With admirable sangfroid, he carefully put down his beer and cigarette, then led her off to the Keller Bar to satisfy her rather obvious needs.

About 10 min later he reappeared, relit his cigarette, took a swig from his beer, then shrugged his shoulders and said "Eh bien - pas mal!" before resuming his previous conversation as if nothing had happened...:ok:

The Spams invited the FAF colonel to go for a trip in an F-15 T-bird, which he gladly accepted. At pre-flight he was being fitted with American flight kit, but when he was sized for a g-suit, he pompously announced "I am a fighter pilot - I do not need a G-suit". Whereupon the US det cdr sought out the meanest, most raw meat-eating rip **** of his pilots and asked him to take Le Colonel for his trip, explaining with a wink that "He says he doesn't need a G-suit - perhaps he might be mistaken?". A few minutes later, the F-15 was seen to take off in full A/B, accelerate to warp lots then snapping into a max rate climbing spiral to flight level nosebleed, before rolling over to spiral back down in a max rate descending spiral to initials....:ok: "How did he like his trip", asked the det cdr - to be told that Le Colonel had been slumped in a heap in his seat from the start of the climb until back at initials. Later he said that it had been "Very interesting" and was then presented with his Eagle flight certificate - but not until he'd been given the traditional raw egg to eat, shell and all ;) !!

[Roadster280]

It seems we are both right, based on how the system has evolved today:

https://bfgnet.de/c-and-i/tax-free-shopping.html

Note that goods under EUR2500 may be paid for directly. That is possibly where the Army/RAF systems had differed in the past, and I suspect (but can't remember) the threshold either wasn't there at all, or was much higher. I certainly bought cars and caravans from dealers (ie considerably more than EUR2500, but in DM at the time) using the system and never once did I pay the Army, it was always to the dealer.

The purchase may well have been officially in the name of the PRI or the unit, but I don't recall that. It was a green form, and needed to be validated with a unit stamp. Our admin office issued them, same as Benzinscheinen.

Larger retailers, eg. Kaufhof or Hortens would take the Abwicklungsschien without issue. Smaller ones sometimes had to be persuaded. Given the amount involved (15%), it was a simple decision to purchase elsewhere if the retailer wouldn't accept it, and find one that would.

[Jayand]

Buster15... now that you mention it, I remember in the First Gulf War, after the declaration, the Tornados launching from Bruggen. We lived in Montfort on the Dutch side, they went off in the evening and I wished them God's Speed. Later in the following morning they returned and as I had counted them out, I counted them back in again. Aviation is a wonderful fellowship, I worked in ATC at Eurocontrol/Maastricht UAC. Happy days, now behind me. Just my thoughts.
Interesting, I'm not sure where they went but I'm certain that they weren't flying sorties to the Gulf direct from Bruggen.
The Tornados were deployed in various locations around the gulf well before the war started.

[Jayand]

Monday morning crew room stories on the Sqn, if someone hadn't been beaten up, felt up, got totally messed up and eventually locked up then it was a miraculously quiet weekend lol.

[langleybaston]

It seems we are both right, based on how the system has evolved today:

https://bfgnet.de/c-and-i/tax-free-shopping.html

Note that goods under EUR2500 may be paid for directly. That is possibly where the Army/RAF systems had differed in the past, and I suspect (but can't remember) the threshold either wasn't there at all, or was much higher. I certainly bought cars and caravans from dealers (ie considerably more than EUR2500, but in DM at the time) using the system and never once did I pay the Army, it was always to the dealer.

The purchase may well have been officially in the name of the PRI or the unit, but I don't recall that. It was a green form, and needed to be validated with a unit stamp. Our admin office issued them, same as Benzinscheinen.



Larger retailers, eg. Kaufhof or Hortens would take the Abwicklungsschien without issue. Smaller ones sometimes had to be persuaded. Given the amount involved (15%), it was a simple decision to purchase elsewhere if the retailer wouldn't accept it, and find one that would.

Thank you. Either way, it was good while it lasted, very good!

[NutLoose]

Post exchange with one of our NATO colleagues they were building a model aircraft to present but were having problems with the right coloured paint, easily sorted but what to put it in, eventually Grolsch bottles were deemed the best solution as they could be sealed, so liney sent to the beer store to collect several empties to rinse and fill with paint... Liney returns smelling of beer... Well, he says "there wasn't any empties and I wasn't throwing good beer away, so I drank it".... nods of approval and paint sent..

[NutLoose]

431MU engine bay, posted for a month or so until tourex due to RAFG trying to sort out manning on 14 Sqn up until disbandment. Stuck for first weeks in the module store and shuffling modules about, attempts to lift one and it wouldn't budge, forks straining then an almighty bang and up comes the box... WTF, look behind and see the late remains of the cast central heating pipe that was luckily turned off due to the time of year and drained. Box replaced and another sourced, departed RAFG before heating turned on :E

[langleybaston]

MT Office at RAF Rheindahlen was in a decrepit old building [manned by decrepit old Germans in the main] and the hatch to which 658s [? number correct?] were proferred and keys issued was low, requiring a crouched posture even for one vertically challenged as I.

The hatch was guarded by a low beam 1m in front, easily noted on the way in, but forgotten in the euphoria of actually getting the keys.

*?!##~~!!!!!!!!!!

The notice said

CHICKEN ...... I MEAN DUCK

[larssnowpharter]

I can't vouch for the truth of this but relate it as told to me.

Gutersloh about 2 months before handover to the Army.

At the guardroom a car arrives with Army Lt Col at the wheel.

Lt Col enquiries of gate guard, "Where's Princess Royal Barracks".

Guard responds, "Dunno, sir. Never heard of that one".

Lt Col. "Don't you know that this place will be Princess Royal Barracks in 2 months?"

Guard. "Really sir? Well, best you come back then, sir."

[Rigga]

For a bottle of gin I managed to get VW940B on a VW, my last 3 was 940. Has anybody mentioned vodka in the windscreen washer bottle? Much cheaper than the proper stuff thanks to coupons. It didn’t freeze, oh those winters, but neither did it clean the windows very well.

LOL! Thank you for the reminder!
On my first tour, I drove all the way from Honington to Laarbruch in my Crimson 4-door Vauxhall Viva (1300 HC) which was duly given the Plate VW774B.
I sold that at Laarbruch for my worst decision ever a Morris Ital (AGH 40B) that displayed rust as soon as I opened the fuel flap!
I disposed of that as the warranty elapsed and got a Vauxhall Cavalier 1600 instead, severely brassing off a neighbour.
I had the Cav for 7 years!

[NRU74]

In the mess at Brüggen, Sunday lunchtime just starting my second pint of Heini, mate says ‘could you do me a favour’?
The favour was to drive him to Rotterdam Europort in his VW and drop him off (his wife was in the UK with the other car) and drive the VW back to Brüggen. No problem.
We got to Europort as night was falling, filled it up from the jerry can and I then experienced my first drive in a beetle. There was a strong crosswind and this ancient beetle had a six volt electrical system. I drove on lights like sidelights in this strong wind (it was a bit like steering a boat) and my technique was to get behind a truck and stay there line astern! Two hours later I got back to base.
Never again !

[gzornenplatz]

I bought a second-hand (third, fourth?) 1961 1200cc Beetle from Willi Otten's garage near Wildenrath. The first trip was exciting. The accelerator linkage went over-centre and it stuck at full throttle. I was late for a briefing and I shot through the Wildenrath gate past a wide-eyed guard who just raised the barrier in time to stop me being decapitated. Once that little problem had been solved, it was utterly reliable, the 6-volt battery starting it first time even when it was completely encased in rain-ice.

[NickB]

In this modern world we live in, the word 'diversity' seems to be oft quoted and very en vogue... which reminds me of an occasion when based at Laarbruch.

One Sunday evening after dinner, 4 of us trudged over from the Mess to the Astra cinema to watch something (can't remember now) and whilst walking over it dawned on me that one of us was RAF, another Army (220 Sigs), another Royal Navy (stacker on exchange) and me a civvy Metman!

'Diversity' - nothing new under the sun!

[NutLoose]

Royal Navy (stacker on exchange)

Surprised that happened, I always struggled to get them to exchange anything... :E

[NickB]

[QUOTE=NutLoose;9957748]Surprised that happened, I always struggled to get them to exchange anything... :E[/QUOT

:D

[goudie]

On detachment to Sylt my mates and I, after a few beers, decided to go for a swim. Strolling along the beach we came across a sign which said something about ' no clothes to be worn past this sign'. Aha we said, the nudist beach! With the beers egging us on we took off our trunks and with expectations of nubile maidens dashing over the dunes to ravish us we carried on strolling. Nubile maidens never showed up just a few fat old fraus who, thankfully, took no interest in us whatsoever

[langleybaston]

"On August 20, 1968, the Soviet Union led Warsaw Pact troops in an invasion of Czechoslovakia to crack down on reformist trends in Prague"..

As Max Boyce used to say "I was there!"

I relate this in the full knowledge that memory is less than perfect, but I insist that the essentials are correct.

At Gutersloh we had 19 sqdn Lightnings on QRA/ Battle Flight [I don't think 92 had arrived from Wildenrath or Geilers at that time], plus 2 and 4 sqdns with Hunters, and a chopper unit. On the night of 19/20 August I was the night duty forecaster, with one assistant, in the ground floor Met Office under the tower and beside Ops. There was no flying, no weather, and I assume that the few duty personnel around were in their sacks or at least thinking about it. This probably included my observer, because we could snatch 40 winks in turn between about 2300 and 0100.

In burst an American.
"The bastards have invaded Czecho!"
In burst another American "why aren't you guys flying!"

Calm down dear, and tell me about it.

"The Pact has invaded .......... our SOPs are to land at the nearest NATO base, get cracking!"

There was indeed a large US chopper parked outside the window.

Now Gutersloh is really rather near to Czecho, so that was quite exciting.

So I did something I had never done before [or since], and rang the Staish, put the US Captain on the phone to him, woke the observer, ran off umpteen copies of the forecast for the Pact countries and awaited the hooter. Within minutes we were a tad busy, as the sh1t hit the fan.

When I got home my wife mentioned something about "yet another Taceval". Little did she know she was nearly put on a coach to Calais.

[Box Brownie]

Goudie - I remember it well. We had a hiring in Westerland. On the second day there,
as a family we went to sit on the sand dunes. I am chatting with my brother when a local chap came running past onto the beach, stripped off, did some exercises and then went for a swim. Mum's face was a picture!

[KG86]

RAF Gutersloh Officers' Mess, Annual Reception (not allowed to call it the Battle of Britain Reception!).

Staish is worried about how to ensure that the German guests are linked up with their nominated hosts, and devises a 'cunning plan'. At the end of the reception line is a Rock officer with a loud booming voice. He would pick the guest up and the end of the line, walk them a few steps to the Ante Room door, announce their names in his loud voice, and the host would come smartly across the room to greet his guest and escort them to his circle. What could possibly go wrong?

Initially, it worked a treat. 'Ladies and Gentlemen, Herr Doctor and Frau Gruber'. Then in came the Gutersloh Stadt Chief of Police, one Friedrich Dryer. Rock picks him up, walks to the door, and announces 'Ladies and Gentlemen, Herr Dryer!' Immediate laughter from all the Brits in the room, followed by an angry 'Vie are they laffink at my name?' Oops.

[Roadster280]

Clutch airfields.

I'm aware the post-war RAF built 5 of them, Laarbruch, Brüggen, Wildenrath, Nörvenich, and Geilenkirchen. That must have been enormously expensive to build, so why the short tenure at Nörvenich and Geilenkirchen?

I'm particularly interested in the last two. Anyone old enough to have served there when they were RAF stations? I imagine E3 people will have served at Geilenkirchen, but I'm curious as to why 40% of the clutch airfields were disposed of. They must have been almost brand new.

[NutLoose]

Friends wedding reception held at his new German wife's parents, Friends parents were dyed in the wool middle England types experiencing their first trip abroad... Mother comes over to me and while eating asks me what it is.... Basically raw mince I reply... Much gagging and napkin filling ensues and off she goes, slightly later on she returns and is tucking in to a Frik, this is lovely she says and I checked this time, it's cooked...... What is it she asks..... Horse meat I reply.... Gagging and napkin filling repeated, I wasn't asked again. :E

[NutLoose]

Geilen became NATO so wasn't really wasted, perhaps they paid for it.

[Vortex_Generator]

I think the clutch stations were built and paid for by the Germans as part of the wartime reparations.

[ICM]

Although I believe that construction of the Clutch airfields preceded Germany's joining NATO, they would almost certainly have been financed through the very early 'Slices' of what was then the NATO Infrastructure Programme - ie by cost sharing amongst the NATO Members of the time. I am unclear as to how Germany stood legally as "Host Nation" before becoming a NATO ally in 1955 but, on joining, it took on a substantial share of all Infra costs, largely on account of the number of facilities seen as being militarily required there.

[Roadster280]

Geilen became NATO so wasn't really wasted, perhaps they paid for it.

It was in Luftwaffe hands between 1968 and 1980 before becoming NATO.

Still, if the Germans and or other nations shared the costs for these stations, then nothing lost really, on the financial front.

I was just aware (Lord knows how) that Nörvenich in particular, but also Geilenkirchen had been newly built for the RAF and not kept very long.

Beyond the costs, why would those 5 new stations have been reduced to 3? I don't believe there was a threat reduction. Too far to the rear? Maybe have to give up the more forward Gütersloh to keep one of the two released clutch stations?

One more question - the place that became Ayrshire South Park, a large materiel park in Mönchengladbach, had been an airfield in the war. Anyone know why it wasn't retained as such, rather than building new?

I spent a lot of time in that area, and knew it quite well. I wish I'd been a bit more interested in history back then when I had access and opportunity to look around.

[Box Brownie]

The clutch airfields were built by the Airfield Construction Branch, then based at Wellesbourne Mountford

[Slow Biker]

Halfway through a second tour at Wildenrath 20Sqn disbanded and off we went to Gutersloh with 3 Sqn. Gutersloh! Oh no, middle of nowhere, almost East Germany. No more Roermond, no more Venlo and no more weekend picnics in the Ardennes. But once the station realized the HF was there to stay and we got used to operating from a line hut built for QRA Lightnings things settled down and I came to realize that Gut was the best kept secret; I loved it, the family loved it. The clutch - pah. We were fortunate to have another tour there, without doubt the best time of my career, both professionally and personally.

[MPN11]

@ Slow Biker ... that reinforces what I always thought. Get on the RAFG circuit and you're laughing. Breaking into it was an entirely different subject!! I've known guys who have done 2/3/4 tours there. :mad:

[NutLoose]

Roermond, coming out of the bars and Cloggies launching firework rockets down the street at us shouting "ahhh Englishers... Exocet!!..."

[Danny42C]

Roadster280 (#170),
..."Nörvenich and Geilenkirchen? .... I'm particularly interested in the last two. Anyone old enough to have served there when they were RAF stations?"...ATC at Geilenkirchen 1960-62. We had 3 Sqn (Canberras) and 11 Sqn (Javelins) on the field. Family lived for a short time in "digs" in Heerlen (Holland), then in quarters in the Volkspark (Cologne) and finally on the station.

My story there starts on "Pilot's Brevet" Thread, page 223, #4447.

Danny42C

[Slow Biker]

MPN11. Not my fault mate, I had no influence over anything, just went where I was told.
Did I mention Changi? Oh, and Butterworth.

[ian16th]

@ Slow Biker ... that reinforces what I always thought. Get on the RAFG circuit and you're laughing. Breaking into it was an entirely different subject!! I've known guys who have done 2/3/4 tours there. :mad:

Service dates, 1952-65, never set foot in 2 TAF or RAFG.

But I'm enjoying this thread:ok:

[Cows getting bigger]

I spent 4 years at Gutersloh in the late 80s, seeing life both before and after reunification. Far too many stories to tell but without doubt they were the very best years of my life, not just my Service career.

[gzornenplatz]

Norvenich was the most frequently used crash diversion from Wildenrath. Irrespective of Wildenrath weather, Norvenich, just down the road, was always BLU, that is, unless you actually got diverted there. Then the weather state deteriorated in inverse proportion to your distance out and, by the time you arrived it was unavailable due to fog. Well, they did get paid for being a diversion.

[Tigger_Too]

I've known guys who have done 2/3/4 tours there

Five (plus two in Belgium!):O

[langleybaston]

Norvenich was the most frequently used crash diversion from Wildenrath. Irrespective of Wildenrath weather, Norvenich, just down the road, was always BLU, that is, unless you actually got diverted there. Then the weather state deteriorated in inverse proportion to your distance out and, by the time you arrived it was unavailable due to fog. Well, they did get paid for being a diversion.

I spent 3 good years as a senior forecaster with overall responsibilty for monitoring Colours all over NW Europe and UK. I have to say that I failed to notice the Norvenich phenomenon. Perhaps not on my watch.

It did exist in the Middle and Near East though ........... the observers were known to "forecast" 24 hours worth of hourly obs, and give them to the telegraphist with instructions to release one per hour. Every now and then the obs were sent as a slack handful as the telegraphist followed the observer down the road to the mosque.

[MPN11]

Five (plus two in Belgium!):O

:{ :{ :{

I did go to a couple of meetings at Rheindahlen, and a Staff visit to BASC ;)

[langleybaston]

It seems as if I had your share:

Cyprus as a baby forecaster 3 years
EDUO as a forecaster of sorts 3
JHQ as forecaster and TACEVAL team 3
JHQ as cook and bottlewasher 6

It was tough but somebody had to do it.
Incidentally, whereas in my youth we found more than enough volunteers for all the overseas post ...... BFG, West Indies, Gib, Malta, Cyprus, N Africa, Aden [perhaps not], Nairobi, Singapore, HongKong ......
in later years the posting folk had to bend a few arms where "wives of" were in fact the larger breadwinner of the family. I think the retreat from Empire and the drawdown came at a timely moment, we had scraped the volunteer barrel dry. Hence my getting back to JHQ, but that is another tale.

[Rigga]

@ Slow Biker ... that reinforces what I always thought. Get on the RAFG circuit and you're laughing. Breaking into it was an entirely different subject!! I've known guys who have done 2/3/4 tours there. :mad:

Yep! 3 marvellous tours - Laarbruch/Bruggen (Bucc's/431MU), Gutersloh/Laarbruch (Puma/Chinook) and lastly, Laarbruch (Harriers).
11 years out of 24 in BAOR/RAFG and RAF(G).

My daughter was born there and we have British and German friends there who also travel here too.
So many holidays and memories just could not have been made without the chance to live there and enjoy the other side of the channel.

[TBM-Legend]

Anyone remember Wg Cdr Ian Esplin [later Air Vice-Marshall] in Germany. Commander some of the first Meteors there including NF-11's. He was actually Australian..

[roving]

I G Esplin (http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Esplin_IG.htm)

Pilot and Qantas executive had new ideas in his sights - Obituaries - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/obituaries/pilot-and-qantas-executive-had-new-ideas-in-his-sights/2008/05/18/1211049057054.html)

[ricardian]

Service dates, 1952-65, never set foot in 2 TAF or RAFG. But I'm enjoying this thread:ok:

Service dates 1959-73, never posted anywhere in Europe (Middle East & Near East only) but in December 1968 as NCO i/c 604 FAC I did participate in a 3 week exercise with 24 (Air Portable) Brigade which involved our tiny section - 1 FltLt (Peter Maillard), 1 Cpl (me), 1 SAC (Jim Bushell) - flying with our Land Rover & trailer to RDAF Skrydstrup then driving as part of a huge convoy heading south and ending up in an exercise rather close to the border with East Germany. We survivors then formed another convoy, drove northwards to RDAF Skrydstrup and flew back to the UK. One vivid memory is of a phase of the exercise which involved getting very wet & muddy in trenches with the infantry and seeing AOC RAF Germany & his ADC decked out in their Number 1 Home Dress with greatcoat & shiny shoes tip-toeing very, very carefully along slippery duckboards in the trenches to see what the troops & the RAF contingent were up to. (I'd love to have listened to the subsequent one-sided conversation between the AOC and his ADC about the dress requirements for that visit!)
In the hot summer of 1969 our section plus a squadron of Hunters (111 sqn?) went back to RDAF Skrydstrup and won the live-firing FAC phase of "Bullseye 69" beating the Americans, Germans, Dutch & Italians.

[4mastacker]

Many folks made their mark during their tour in RAFG. Mine was a big oil stain on the ground behind Gutersloh's ESG when an off-load of heating oil didn't go to plan. My stunning career/freedom was saved because some electronic cut-out wasn't connected to the tank and MPBW/DoE(remember them?) had fitted the wrong dipstick (IIRC it read something like 40,000 ltrs max capacity instead of 24,000).

[Vendee]

4mastacker's spillage story has just reminded me of another spillage story.

Laarbruch, early 80's II (ac) Sqn Jags. Like all RAFG sqn's at the time, we were well practised in Taceval, Mineval, Maxeval etc but when we had VIP's turn up when there wasn't an exercise on, the sqn treated them to a mini exercise demonstration lasting only 30 minutes or so. We had a set team, used the same HAS and used the same scenario which we all practised so it looked very slick.

The scenario involved 2 Jags returning to the HAS after a wartime recce sortie. The first aircraft would taxi in and be winched back into the HAS. The film would be removed from the recce pod and dumped into the panniers of my motorcycle (although I was a sooty, this was my "war role"). I rode off at high speed to the RIC, offloaded the film and returned to the HAS where the second aircraft would be taxying in. In the meantime, the refuel bowser would reverse into the HAS in front of the first aircraft. As the second aircraft taxied down the pan towards the HAS, the "Air Attack Red" warning would sound. To speed things up, the second aircraft would taxi into the HAS nose first, shut down, HAS doors closed with everyone safe inside. This is a MK1 German HAS which is quite a bit smaller than the UK ones.

It looked so, so slick when it worked but on this occasion, the bowser driver misjudged things and reversed into the HAS wall. The bowser tank ruptured and it started to spew AVTAG all over the place. The bowser driver drove out of the HAS and up the pan before parking on the grass.

I'm at the other end of the pan watching this on my motorcycle when the second aircraft turns up and starts taxying towards the HAS. I leap off my bike and bring the aircraft to a halt before it reaches the thousands of litres of fuel running across the pan. The next thing I know is the SENGO pushing me out of the way and starts marshalling the aircraft through the fuel towards the HAS. I sh!t myself and dived behind an earth bank, convinced the whole thing would go up. Luckily it didn't. Apparently "the show must go on". The fuel eventually drained into the surrounding soil and the Germans made us excavate the soil to a depth of 2 metres and dispose of it. I'm told the VIP's were impressed though :ugh:

[goudie]

In ' 56 the re- formed Luftwaffe was in the hangar next to ours at RAF Wahn. They had one aircraft, a Heron ser. no. 001 and it was their pride and joy. One day it was parked opposite our Meteor NF 11s and as one taxied out the pilot failed to turn right (brake failure?) and taxied into the Heron damaging the wing and an engine. At his subsequent interview the pilot, after his bollocking apparently, was congratulated for grounding the Luftwaffe, even though it was 16 years too late!

[NutLoose]

Vendee, mine was similar at Bruggen, went out to refuel two Jags in a HAS, we had them both tail in and the bowser would reverse in down the left side near the little office, the doors were open when I arrived so I started to get the jets ready, the bowser turfed up and we exchanged waves to acknowledge each other. He then proceeded to reverse in as I was opening the refuel panels when there was an almighty bang, looking over I could see he had hit the door locking bar that had gone straight through the tank. The driver just sat there obviously in shock, I legged it to the cab and informed him he had hit the door.... "What" "you have ruptured you tank mate".... "What" "your pissing fuel out"..... "What" "look in your other mirror"..... "****" "get it out of here". He drives out the HAS as I call for assistance and the fire brigade, I then isolate the jets, manually close the doors, drop the napalm seals and kill all power in the HAS, by now help is arriving and the Flight Sgt picks up a sandbag and thinking he is the little Dutch boy attempts to plug the tear that was of Titanic proportions. By now Everyman and a dog have arrived and they are attempting to offload the contents into another tanker, looking over the driver who is actually really a nice chap is making a statement to the plods and turning he points at me.
Previously in the year Germany had surveyed the site and cleaned it up, as in your case they then had to excavate out a large area again. A board of enquiry was formed and along I go to be interviewed, the driver said I was marshalling him in (I wasn't) he then said he lost sight of me ( but carried on). They then pulled out and presented an MT order requiring two marshallers for tankers and had I read it, nope, I then said it was standard practice for one to Marshall it in across the station (spread the poo far and wide ;) ) it turned out the Squadrons had rejected the order and it was never issued. End of the day, the poor driver got a £25 fine, the bowser was written off, lots of soil was removed and burnt, and I was commended in my actions in isolating the aircraft away from the danger and for my prompt and effective actions... As for the Flight Sgt, he just got wet.

[Slow Biker]

There were two Bills on the sqn: Sqn WO Bill xxx, a real WO, feared and respected in equal measure, and Chf Tech Bill xxx sqn eng ops. The line squawk box goes, 'is Chf Tech xyz there?' I'll find him sir, recognizing the voice. John, Bill wants you on the box. Yes mate, says John on the box, what can I do for you? Wrong Bill, the box melted as the WO explained to John the facts of life; John was mortified. I felt a little guilty so I went to the hangar and confessed to setting up poor John. I got the WO look that froze me to the spot. But, man that he was, WO Bill went over to the line hut and made peace with John. Me? I was in the dog-house only for a day or so.

[cargosales]

During my time on a UAS we went to Wildenrath on summer camp and they didn't forget us in a hurry. Especially our arrival :}

Pantech loaded with our personal kit arrived at the main gate and was given an escort vehicle to strictly follow, so as to drop off the kit at various quarters and messes without getting lost. First stop (obviously) the Officers Mess. Car drives up to the entrance and driver follows as instructed.

It was just a pity that the large canopy outside the Mess entrance was about 2" lower than the roof of the Pantech... and more of a pity that the Summer Ball was that night .. :eek:

Fortunately the local contractors and German efficiency kicked in - the Pantech was extricated and the canopy made safe pronto but even so we weren't popular :O

CS

[langleybaston]

At this time of year thoughts may turn to Christmas markets. We managed a good few, and our consensus was that they are much better at night.
Detmold was magical, and Rheydt. Essen was poor, Aachen [with a Mess coach trip] was good. Koln is over-valued, being spread over too many venues. Then there was Bruggen village, and Gutersloh and a marvellous one in Weimar.

The UK versions seem over commercialised, all food and drink, whereas the German ones "in our day" had a good deal of relevant Christmas artefacts, cribs, candles, decorations, painted wood and china ......... and of course music.

Are there any Market memories to share?

[ricardian]

Peter Maillard, Manx Airlines early to mid 1990's.

Still going strong and living in Douglas, IoM

[unmanned_droid]

At this time of year thoughts may turn to Christmas markets. We managed a good few, and our consensus was that they are much better at night.
Detmold was magical, and Rheydt. Essen was poor, Aachen [with a Mess coach trip] was good. Koln is over-valued, being spread over too many venues. Then there was Bruggen village, and Gutersloh and a marvellous one in Weimar.

The UK versions seem over commercialised, all food and drink, whereas the German ones "in our day" had a good deal of relevant Christmas artefacts, cribs, candles, decorations, painted wood and china ......... and of course music.

Are there any Market memories to share?

Sorry, slight drift, but have spent a few years in Berlin during the run up to Christmas. The markets in Berlin are wonderful. The Käthe Wohlfahrt stand especially so.

[Dougie M]

I visited Berlin before the truck outrage on the Kaiser Wilhelm Denkmal fair and I believe that the poshest market was in the Gendarmen Platz. Proper tables and white napery to munch your festive bratty at.

[Rigga]

4mastacker's spillage story has just reminded me of another spillage story.

Laarbruch, early 80's II (ac) Sqn Jags. Like all RAFG sqn's at the time, we were well practised in Taceval, Mineval, Maxeval etc but when we had VIP's turn up when there wasn't an exercise on, the sqn treated them to a mini exercise demonstration lasting only 30 minutes or so. We had a set team, used the same HAS and used the same scenario which we all practised so it looked very slick.

The scenario involved 2 Jags returning to the HAS after a wartime recce sortie. The first aircraft would taxi in and be winched back into the HAS. The film would be removed from the recce pod and dumped into the panniers of my motorcycle (although I was a sooty, this was my "war role"). I rode off at high speed to the RIC, offloaded the film and returned to the HAS where the second aircraft would be taxying in. In the meantime, the refuel bowser would reverse into the HAS in front of the first aircraft. As the second aircraft taxied down the pan towards the HAS, the "Air Attack Red" warning would sound. To speed things up, the second aircraft would taxi into the HAS nose first, shut down, HAS doors closed with everyone safe inside. This is a MK1 German HAS which is quite a bit smaller than the UK ones.

It looked so, so slick when it worked but on this occasion, the bowser driver misjudged things and reversed into the HAS wall. The bowser tank ruptured and it started to spew AVTAG all over the place. The bowser driver drove out of the HAS and up the pan before parking on the grass.

I'm at the other end of the pan watching this on my motorcycle when the second aircraft turns up and starts taxying towards the HAS. I leap off my bike and bring the aircraft to a halt before it reaches the thousands of litres of fuel running across the pan. The next thing I know is the SENGO pushing me out of the way and starts marshalling the aircraft through the fuel towards the HAS. I sh!t myself and dived behind an earth bank, convinced the whole thing would go up. Luckily it didn't. Apparently "the show must go on". The fuel eventually drained into the surrounding soil and the Germans made us excavate the soil to a depth of 2 metres and dispose of it. I'm told the VIP's were impressed though :ugh:
I remember that fiasco! And I seem to remember that it was some 600 Tonnes of earth removed and replaced with a clean 600 Tonnes.

[goudie]

The first job we did on arriving in Sylt was to remove the wing tanks of our NFIIs ready for air to air gunnery. Several of us would support the empty tank ready for the chap in the cockpit to operate the tank jettison switch. We were supporting the port tank when there was a loud bang from the st'board side... We beat Del boy and grandad to it!

[NutLoose]

I defuelled a jet in Deci and they removed the droppers to find it full lol, I was read the riot act by the Armourers chief when I pointed out you requested I defuelled Hotel, he nodded in agreement, so why are you taking the tanks off Juliet.... Penny slowly sank in.

[langleybaston]

Does anyone remember the "negligent discharge" by a Hunter at Gutersloh, which just happened to be pointing at some offices ............. I seem to remember a hushed-up event in my time, so it must have been late 1960s?

This would be in the days of Sandy Wilson and Pete Gover and possibly Tiger Tim, all on 2 or 4 squadron.

Many years later, when Wilson became A O C in C RAFG and was duly knighted, he was referred to on a tannoy announcement at a German-hosted event, as "Sir Wilson!" His first accomplishment was to have the clocks in JHQ [the RAF part] synchronised, "and about time too!" as one wag said.

[Vendee]

I remember that fiasco! And I seem to remember that it was some 600 Tonnes of earth removed and replaced with a clean 600 Tonnes.

That figure does ring a bell. It was an awful lot of soil. HAS 53 was the scene of the debacle.

[4mastacker]

Does anyone remember the "negligent discharge" by a Hunter at Gutersloh, which just happened to be pointing at some offices ............. I seem to remember a hushed-up event in my time, so it must have been late 1960s?.......

That incident happened not long before I arrived at Gutersloh in April 1970.

When WW593 tried to destroy itself in 7 hangar (that would make it a II(AC) Sqn a/c) when a drip tray containing a nice cocktail of AVPIN and AVTAG caught fire, my colleagues, who were at Gut at the time of the ND, told me it was the same aircraft that had loosed off some rounds in the same hangar.

After the fire, WW593 sat forlornly out on the airfield with an even more pronounced anhedral than Sir Sidney Camm had intended. It was used a decoy on subsequent exercises.

[Slow Biker]

There can not be too many incidents such as WW593, so that must be the one where the 30mm round went through the wall and clipped the dust coat of someone in the armourers' den. I remember the occasion at Wildenrath when a BI8 sent a few 20mm rounds whizzing across the airfield.

[NutLoose]

I suppose it's better than rolling nukes across the taxiway :)

[4mastacker]

Wasn't that Bruggen's party piece?

[langleybaston]

Yes indeed. A saga of buck-passing, with the lads at the bottom of the pile doing their best to make up for the failings of their superiors, and the failings of the system.

[NutLoose]

yup............

[Danny42C]

Slow Biker (#210),

Not RAFG, but a similar occurence (Hawarden, 1942), recorded in my Post #2452 on "Pilots brevet", Page 124:

..."There was an amusing (for the bystanders) incident in which this Spit was involved. An armourer was tinkering with the firing button in the cockpit. A second airman walked past right in front of the aircraft when the cannons unexpectedly fired. As he was exactly in line with the nose, the rounds passed harmlessly either side of him and off to the Welsh hills. The gun camera (in the port wing root) still had film in it, it worked and this was developed. Seemingly, the prints clearly showed his hair standing on end!"..
.
Danny.

[ricardian]

Yes indeed. A saga of buck-passing, with the lads at the bottom of the pile doing their best to make up for the failings of their superiors, and the failings of the system.

Now all can be revealed (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121110090740/http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/DisclosureLog/SearchDisclosureLog/NuclearWeaponIncidentInGermany.htm) but with names redacted

[NutLoose]

Yep was at Bruggen at the time, you would be surprised how few knew it happened, we did on the Squadrons but the rest of the station were pretty much in the dark, which considering they could have been in the light and a very bright one at that, it was a good thing..

[superplum]

Yep was at Bruggen at the time, you would be surprised how few knew it happened, we did on the Squadrons but the rest of the station were pretty much in the dark, which considering they could have been in the light and a very bright one at that, it was a good thing..

I was at Colt at the time and knew the same day after a call from N Yorks. The armourers grapevine worked well. But there was never a chance of a "bright" light though. It did leave a small indentation in the site road which was cherished until we left there.
:cool:

[Thaihawk]

Story in the Brüggen Circuit in the 1980s of someone newly posted in out on a day out. A bit lost, but followed a sign for München instead of one for Mönchengladbach thinking they were one and the same place.

Quite a shock when they discovered they were in deepest Bavaria and some 700 Km (give or take) from Brüggen.

[MPN11]

They should have gone via Ausfahrt

[langleybaston]

Umleitung I fear.

Returning to the Bruggen incident and beyond, the transport /transfer of weapons was, naturally enough, the focus of great attention by all concerned.

There were only two tasks that C Met O BFG retained personal direct control and responsibility for:

forecasts for major paradrops,

and forecasts for movement by air of weapons.

Fortunately crossed fingers and toes seem to have worked.

[NutLoose]

MPN

Naa..... I always found eingang was the place to go... You couldn't beat pushing ahead and coming into eingang, even the missus enjoyed it. :p

[charliegolf]

They should have gone via Ausfahrt

Oo, oo, I went there too!

CG

[TLDNMCL]

A certain RAF Reg. Officer observing liquid oxygen replenishment "What causes this?" Says he, brushing his bare fingers over the delivery pipes... "Wouldn't do that if I were you..." "Really? Oh &@#$, my finger is stuck! What should I do?" "The recommended method is to p!ss on it, or ask someone else to oblige." "The alternative is to follow the advice of people who know what they are dealing with." Yes, he did speak to my boss, and I got the "official" bollocking with a grin... happy days😎

[NutLoose]

Lox pot trolley turfs back up from filling with only about two Lox pots on it, "ahhh" he says, as he retraces his path back over the airfield collecting Lox pots as he goes.

[It's Not Working]

I towed a giraffe from 16 Sqn (I think) up Laarbruch's northern peritrack to CADF to fettle something on the canopy only to find the giraffe had almost rattled itself to bits. A quick call to ATC soon put the peritrack BLACK and I had my own private fod plod for the rest of the day.

[chopper2004]

Hi all

My only experiencing of RAFG assets apart from Mildenhall Air Fete , was a CCF cadet - RAF Section in easter camp at Church Fenton, where of Wildenwrath’s Andover and flown I . Both pilots popped into the Met Office where I was doing my day of work experience and had s good chat. Great guys think it was a squadron leader and flight Lt were crewing or could have been a wing commander.

I read somewhere there ware plans to base the Tornado F3 there? Also I recall reading a 1993 Flyer Magazone where one of the writers from a Flying club here in UK went to visit Laarbruch Flying Club and flew with a Tonka pinto in one of the Cessna. The author was giving a tour of what looked like an F3 ( grey )in one of Laarbruch HAS..I’m guessing this was a visiting F3?

Cheers

[blindfire]

Quite a few from my days...

This one's not RAFG, but I was on 19 Sqn RAF Regt (Rapier) at Upper Heyford when they bombed Libya. We were at end of runway when the F1-11s took off, what a noise they made, right impressive. The whole station was on lockdown with all the weirdo protesters outside, soon after this I got posted to Wildenrath on 16 Sqn RAF Regt.

Sometimes we had to deploy our kit at end of runway during daytime to test them etc, you'd see, then hear 2 x F4s coming at you and then take off, and I'm sure they stayed as low as possible screaming over us. We used to give them the finger, but it was an impressive roar.

Another we had was ex Iron Hammer in Nov 88, I'm not sure if anyone else on camp was involved, but we were out in the fields around Wilders for two of the coldest weeks I ever experienced in my life, snow, then temp plummeted to -13 before wind chill. We thought we were in Russia and all gonna die of cold.

1989, we had a call out, about 4am, what joy.
We then had to go to armoury and get warshot, normally we just loaded drill missiles on ex.
Then we were sent to a war site -- now you have to realise we were never deployed to war sites due to it would be compromised etc.
Next we were told to load warshot and attach firing lines, we were like, wtf, have the russkies invaded??.
All this of course, was communicated in BATCO on the radio.
A few blokes, myself included, were going, I don't believe this ****, we're going to war etc etc.
Then finally a land rover came round with junior rock officer telling us it was a mistake etc, to to unload and RTU.
Someone made a major mistake there, but I suppose back then nothing was advertised, so it was a bit of a laugh in the end.

[Old Photo.Fanatic]

blindfire.....
-13 plus wind chill.?
"Balmy" compared to middle Germany during winter of 62/63.

I was stationed in a small town in the American zone north of Frankfurt.
Part of a small detachment operating the southern tech. site of the Decca Nav. trials for the RAF.

First snows started in mid Nov. through to March.
In the town the temperature fell to -28C Day and Night for three weeks around Feb.
This combined with a wind chill from a gale force easterly wind dropped the temp. even more.

The Tech site was on a 1000' high hill outside the town, so the temp. was lower still , off the scale!!!!

We had no extra winter type clothes so we were allowed to wear what ever we could get on, to keep warm.

We had a "landy" for transport, with a 50/50 mix of water and anti freeze.
At night we had to run it every hour to operating temp. to avoid it freezing up.
The Tech equipment was in an air transportable container, each rack normally was quite warm when operating.
With the door sealed shut to keep as warm as possible there would be a frost covering the lower part of the racks in the mornings during the worst of the cold.

We had a small number of German men to look after odd jobs around the site during the day.
One of these men had been on the eastern front at Stalingrad, he said the cold during the worst of the 62/63 winter at the higher tech site was as bad as the Russian winter at Stalingrad.

You had to be there!!!!

OPF

[goudie]

By contrast I have a pic of me and some mates, taken in March '56, on the line, in just pe. shorts and plimsolls.
Sylt could be rather chilly in February. We were issued with ww2 flying suits made from canvas! Far too bulky to work in. Then we were given kapok filled jackets and trousers. Rumour had it they were from the Korean war.(Chinese?) they did keep one nice and warm.

[langleybaston]

The depth of snow, as opposed to the coolth, could also be a major problem. Even as far west as JHQ the on-base MQs side-streets became sealed up every time snow clearance on the main roads was performed.

Then, once out [or into] the home straight, the deep frozen ruts decided where the car went, not the steering. Traction in rear-wheel drive was zilch, so I liberated a kerbstone and put it in the back of my big Vauxhall 2300 Estate.

Vodka in the windscreen washer tank of course.

A lot of people used bikes around the camp ......... although falling off in the ice and snow was common enough, we usually were cushioned by snow banks, even if dignity was bruised.

[MightyGem]

although falling off in the ice and snow was common enough,
Easily done, when the front wheel gets in one frozen rut and the rear in another.:O

[Exrigger]

I towed a giraffe from 16 Sqn (I think) up Laarbruch's northern peritrack to CADF to fettle something on the canopy only to find the giraffe had almost rattled itself to bits. A quick call to ATC soon put the peritrack BLACK and I had my own private fod plod for the rest of the day.

Off topic, but I can relate to that one, although mine was the active runway at St Athan with two Tornado wing air logs trolleys, proved the arrestor cables worked to an extent of slowing me down before all the bits of the support feet snapped off :O

[NutLoose]

Off Topic 2,

I have watched the self propelled variety, Staging ( those big scaffolding towers on wheels about 70 foot high manually pushed around ) used to work on the DC9 tailplane, caught by the wind it trundled off on its own, luckily no one was hurt, one fell over, another managed to park itself deep into a Civi Hercs nose and another used a BAe 125 belonging to a famous digger company as a chock.

[bosnich71]

blindfire.....
-13 plus wind chill.?
"Balmy" compared to middle Germany during winter of 62/63.

I was stationed in a small town in the American zone north of Frankfurt.
Part of a small detachment operating the southern tech. site of the Decca Nav. trials for the RAF.

First snows started in mid Nov. through to March.
In the town the temperature fell to -28C Day and Night for three weeks around Feb.
This combined with a wind chill from a gale force easterly wind dropped the temp. even more.

The Tech site was on a 1000' high hill outside the town, so the temp. was lower still , off the scale!!!!

We had no extra winter type clothes so we were allowed to wear what ever we could get on, to keep warm.

We had a "landy" for transport, with a 50/50 mix of water and anti freeze.
At night we had to run it every hour to operating temp. to avoid it freezing up.
The Tech equipment was in an air transportable container, each rack normally was quite warm when operating.
With the door sealed shut to keep as warm as possible there would be a frost covering the lower part of the racks in the mornings during the worst of the cold.

We had a small number of German men to look after odd jobs around the site during the day.
One of these men had been on the eastern front at Stalingrad, he said the cold during the worst of the 62/63 winter at the higher tech site was as bad as the Russian winter at Stalingrad.

You had to be there!!!!

OPF
Even the Rhine froze at one time during the 62/63 winter but flying at Bruggen carried on as usual ....with a bit of help from the shovelers each day.

[Vendee]

Talking of snow reminds me of the joys of sitting in a wooden hut with a pair of running Derwents either side of you and a bowser pushing you and the Derwents down the runway. One day at Laarbruch in the early 80's, I had the weld fail on one of the bowser attachment points. That was "interesting" :eek:

[Danny42C]

Vendee (#235),

It was interesting when the Derwents started pushing the bowser backwards across the ice, too - to say nothing of the sheets of razor-sharp ice which were blowing about !

Danny.

[Vendee]

Vendee (#235),

It was interesting when the Derwents started pushing the bowser backwards across the ice, too - to say nothing of the sheets of razor-sharp ice which were blowing about !

Danny.

Absolutely. In my experience, the MRD was only effective if used in the right conditions. Sometimes they made things worse, simply turning the snow to liquid which immediately froze.

[Green Flash]

The MRD - Mechanical Runway Destroyer:\

[langleybaston]

The MRDs were interesting to say the least, and [perhaps fortunately] I was NEVER consulted in a professional capacity as to whether using them was a good idea under the actual and [my] forecast conditions.

At was level was the decision made? i am guessing WingCo Flying/ Ops.

[MPN11]

Decision usually jointly OC Ops and OC Eng, but ISTR OC Eng was actually the OC Snow Clearance (using his Tech kit) on behalf of the Stn Cdr.

[blindfire]

blindfire.....
-13 plus wind chill.?
"Balmy" compared to middle Germany during winter of 62/63.

I was stationed in a small town in the American zone north of Frankfurt.
Part of a small detachment operating the southern tech. site of the Decca Nav. trials for the RAF.

First snows started in mid Nov. through to March.
In the town the temperature fell to -28C Day and Night for three weeks around Feb.
This combined with a wind chill from a gale force easterly wind dropped the temp. even more.

The Tech site was on a 1000' high hill outside the town, so the temp. was lower still , off the scale!!!!

We had no extra winter type clothes so we were allowed to wear what ever we could get on, to keep warm.

We had a "landy" for transport, with a 50/50 mix of water and anti freeze.
At night we had to run it every hour to operating temp. to avoid it freezing up.
The Tech equipment was in an air transportable container, each rack normally was quite warm when operating.
With the door sealed shut to keep as warm as possible there would be a frost covering the lower part of the racks in the mornings during the worst of the cold.

We had a small number of German men to look after odd jobs around the site during the day.
One of these men had been on the eastern front at Stalingrad, he said the cold during the worst of the 62/63 winter at the higher tech site was as bad as the Russian winter at Stalingrad.

You had to be there!!!!

OPF

Yes, but you're old :hmm:

only joking;)
tbf I hate the cold, I much preferred the 3 yrs in Oman, never a cold day there.

[Warmtoast]

Winter in Germany – I remember it well from the early 1970’s with my BFG registered Volvo — see below.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BFG%20Volvo/VolvoinSnow2_zps1ea9e812.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BFG%20Volvo/AustrianSnow_zps13d195aa.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BFG%20Volvo/SnowChainsRequired_zps5177ec9f.jpg



Plus over the border into Austria and Italy.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BFG%20Volvo/SnowChainsRequired2_zpsb59d0f22.jpg


"Winterreifenpflicht oder Schneeketten an Bord" = Winter tyres are mandatory or [have] snow chains on board.

[Captivep]

In 1970, I was an aviation-obsessed 10 year old, living with my parents in Bielefeld (my father was a civil servant attached to the army there).

I wrote a school project about the RAF and the Head Teacher sent it to the CO at RAF Gutersloh. I was invited to spend a day there and was shown around as a VIP - it was wonderful! I even got interviewed by BFBS at the end of it.

As I recall, I spent some time in the control tower, sat in a two seater Lightning, had a go in the Lightning simulator, and crawled all over a Wessex. Of course, some of those memories might be a bit hazy but I will never forget how wonderful it all was, or the magnificently named F/O who showed me over the Wessex:

Paul Akehurst De Visme!

[Rigga]

Snow!

I remember one family summer holiday in Bavaria. It was glorious week of Teeshirts, shorts and sandals as we drove through the mountains to Berchtesgarten where we unexpectedly met many of our daughters' School Teachers at the Lift to the Eagles Nest.

On stepping out of the Lift and walking through the Cafe area on to the Patio, we found we were stood (in Shorts and Sandals) in 6 feet of Snow!

[langleybaston]

Rigga ........ been there, done that .....
Glorious fortnight summer holiday Italian beaches, all six of us packed into the VX 2300 at 0500 to drive north over the Alps to JHQ. As you say, summer gear on.

Stopping for a necessary pee at the top of the St Bernard Pass [I believe it was there] was no joke in a blizzard, but we managed to perform with great ease!

My eldest: "dad is supposed to know about these weather thingies ........."
Dad was as cold and misearable as any.

[teeteringhead]

My eldest: "dad is supposed to know about these weather thingies ........." 'Twas ever thus!

Had a quarter at Gutersloh next door to a Met Man, who had turned his cellar into an excellent bar!

Went there for a few pre-ball tinctures one year; on leaving - into the p!ss!ng rain - he looked confused and said:

"That shouldn't have happened!"

[5aday]

We flew home as a family, minus my father, in the BUA Viscount in the winter 62/63 arriving at Gatwick. There followed a nightmare train journey finally arriving at Lincoln about 0400hrs. It should have been a short trip home from there but no readily available taxis due to heavy snowfall. When we finally arrived on the first bus, and went back into the house in North Hykeham my parents had bought four years previously, it had been trashed and that was done by another serving R.A.F. officer.
Having gone from Parseval Strasse at Gutersloh to a trashed house in North Hykeham I felt quite strongly but I never managed to find the guy responsible. We went to a hotel for nearly a month while it was sorted out. That was my final memory of my time as a sprog in RAFG. I joined up four years later. I never did get back to Germany though.

[NutLoose]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/BFG%20Volvo/AustrianSnow_zps13d195aa.jpg

One day UK roads will be as smoothly paved and clear of snow, slush and general detritus in winter..........

[langleybaston]

A genuine blacktop!

About as likely as a failure by the Home Counties to panic when a few flakes fall.

I recall that the standard textbook on weather affecting roads suggested that 4" of new snow marked the onset of "some disruption" and 6" "widespread disruption".

Really? Not for the Metropolitan elite.

[langleybaston]

'Twas ever thus!

Had a quarter at Gutersloh next door to a Met Man, who had turned his cellar into an excellent bar!

Went there for a few pre-ball tinctures one year; on leaving - into the p!ss!ng rain - he looked confused and said:

"That shouldn't have happened!"

Perhaps we could compile a list of cellar bars on MQs? There was at least one on most married patches. ROs, being more long-term, were favourites for publicans.

For starters, The Carpenters' Arms, Portadown Way JHQ.

I had no room for such, having been arm-twisted [he claimed] into a gigantic Marklin model railway set-up.