Sorry it's not in stock!!!

[Rude C'man]

Ok, It's time for a moan.
I went down to stores the other day to get some new kit here’s a list of the not in stock items;

Flying boots - according to thick SAC the contracts had been re-allocated!
New flying suits size 6,8 or 12
Old 15 and 15t flying suits
Cold weather jkt
DPM soldier 95 trs and shirt
Union Jack badges
Green flying gloves
Need I say any more?
I had to wait 3 months the last time I ordered my long johns!
What the bloody hell are the Armed Forces doing with all their kit?
Ahh I saw the answer today, ATC cadets on summer camp in nice shiny new kit. Trainees and holding officers in nice shiny new kit. Even a RAFC Cranwell cadet officer in a new shiny flying suit. Come on you airships wake up smell the coffee and take a look around you at the front line workforce in kit that’s falling to bits patched and repaired time and time again.
6yrs and counting ........ time to leave Baldrick

[Red Sikorsky Bruv]

Oi, Crewman. We’ve got loads-a-money now: Gordon told us. So we’re bound to be able to buy the front-line kit we need.

There’s absolutely no way the spending review bonanza will get lost in earlier debts and commitments – honest.

[Blacksheep]

Nothing changes eh? Its an old RAF tradition.

**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

[Yozzer]

Went to clothing stores in feb for some boots. Not in stock.

Returned in March: Same again so "demanded" some.

Informed in June that they will never be in stock so ordered to "demand" new pattern boots, and even fitted for them by the station specialist who had attended a 3 day fitting course.

It is now nearly August, and I am flying with boots so slick that there is a big risk of going arse over tit in any of the numerous positions on the aircraft that require grip.

Health and Safety at Work man where are you? Interestingly he is resigned to be powerless on this one. But all of the above is documented and if I do have a mishap, where there is pain there is a claim!!

YOZZER:mad:

[Mad_Mark]

Yozzer,

If you feel that your boots are in such a bad state that they presently a H&S hazard then you should say so and refuse to fly.

A colleague of mine, several years ago, went into stores to change his sun-glasses only to be told that being rear-end crew he was not entitled to any!! After explaining that on our aircraft the rear-end crew are used for flight safety look outs, hence the reason he was issued with them in the first place, he was still refused a new pair. His answer, he returned to the Squadron, explained the situation to his Flight Commander and said that as a result he was not properly equipped to fly safely and so (although said jokingly) he wouldn't! The result, Flt Cdr on phone to OC Stackers, OC Stackers said that the reason given by his storeman was valid. Flt Cdr onto CO, CO phoned off station, and so on until it all bounced back down to OC Stackers. The result, within the hour my colleague received a phone call from supply "Your new sun-glasses are ready for collection".

Don't take the sh!t from these people. If we all just accept things as they are then there will be no pressure on the system to get them changed. If we start losing flights due to lack of serviceable flying kit then the situation will soon get noticed.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[canberra]

was the sac really thick? i think not or he or she would not have got in to the raf, i speak as an ex sac so stop slagging an sac stacker off cos he's telling you somethings not in stock. now having got that off my chest, i havent seen an airman behind the counter in clothing stores for years. if they dont have your size in stock then i would suggest one of two things, get some lpo'dthis is a local purchase order or get them to get on to the computer and get some from another unit, easy. one of the reasons there is a shortage of kit is that mod has gone over to the just in time principle. put simply the days of having mountains of kit sitting at stafford and elsewhere are over and mod just orders when it needs to. when i went to the gulf in 90 there were triwalls of kd hats from the early 50s sat in the kitting section at innsworth. mind you how much kit has been nicked by the thieving ba$tards at donnington? ps im not an ex stacker!

[BEagle]

Have been waiting for Boots, flying, lightweight - size 8 medium now since last November.....

Is this a record?

[Art Field]

No Beags its a complaint. Just glad I'm not there to see this sorry state. Perhaps Health and Safety is the answer, it would be on a building site!!!

[C130KBloke]

Hi Gang;

I, too, went along for some lightweight flying boots a while back. when I enquired the other day, I was told that they were not made anymore and I had to go to SES to get 'measured' by the only qualified guy on the unit for new boots. Haven't been yet....too busy doing other things like collecting Jubilee medals and avoiding parades.

Regards to Most
SFS:rolleyes:

[Ralf Wiggum]

Rude C'Man, so all your kit became worn out on the same day or perhaps you were so busy that you didn't have time to get to stores.

Ever thought that the poor storeman SAC type you called thick was just passing on what he'd been told by his seniors. Very rude c'man should be your tag. You must be so professional that you never ever make a mistake or always give the punters what they want. Probably the latter, Honey.

No. I'm not a storeman, just a serviceman of 22 years who is still serving and has learned to respect all within our Services. It's easy to slag off others when we are so ignorant/arrogant ourselves!

[tracasseries]

Early this year, told I was required to fill an Emergency Appt Notice slot, so had 60 days to get kitted up with sufficient CS95 for WW3, vaccinated for everything they could think of, and could be sent anywhere in the world at 72 hours notice to fight men with beards.........except it took until June to get all the kit, by which time most of the men with beards had found razors or run away (to fight another day?)
About the only thing stores have plenty of is the new range of maternity wear! (and you thought the Battle of the Bulge finished in 1945)
Is it just me, or have we got our priorities just a tad mixed up?

[jayteeto]

If your kit isn't serviceable don't fly. They will find it if you go through the right motions. Interestingly enough I have learned that there are 40 non-aircrew issued with flying kit at my station (15% of all personnel). Why?

[Talking Radalt]

Well, that all hinges on your definition of "serviceable" flying kit doesn't it? Is a flying suit that's thread-bare and cobbled together from bits of other flying suits REALLY serviceable. Betcha bottom dollar the bean counters say it is. :(

[Ed Winchester]

"This is Stores, Sir, not Issues."

[Harpooner]

You could always review who is issued with flying kit; RAF Movers? Police? other hangers-on too numerous to list.

For a wind up I had considered mentioning the practice of wearing your flying suit 24/7 instead of something in Blue perhaps? But that would invoke all sorts of anger from the Guilty.

There was a F3 driver on my Flight Safety course who attended the week in a green suit. Nearest aircraft being.......



Lights blue touchpaper and stands well back...

[solotk]

Haven't any of you realised?

"Stores" are for "Storing"
If they meant to issue you with anything then they would be called "Issues"

Honestly, what do they teach you people in the Glamour end of HMF?:D

In all seriousness, if desperate, try Silvermans, God knows I've had to from time to time

www.silvermans.co.uk

[Double Hush]

Or airshows! - most sirshows have a range of 'Army Surplus' type stalls. I found a flying suit, still with my name in it, at one some years ago. I had handed it back to stores a couple of months previously as it was beyond repair!

[Sideshow Bob]

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to defend our suppliers, I've just been sent back to Oman at 12 hours notice and supply had all my kit ready for me and waiting for collection by the time I had sorted myself out. Most of the time it is not their fault that the guy in charge of procurment has not sorted out a decient contract and waits till the last minute befor spending any of his prcious budget. I'm sure they don't like being on the recieving end of our complaints any more than we don't enjoy having to work with shoddy kit.

[Mr C Hinecap]

RIGHT!!

This is blinking IT!!!

For all those gone before - yes, I'm serving - yes, I professionally stack - yes, I do care.

I've seen the letter from a V important man in a V important office. There has, as usual, been a monumental cock-up on a number of items - especially the new flying kit. SNAFU. The civvies (DCTA, largely civil servants) and contracts have cocked up once more - the manufacturers are pants (paying peanuts for monkeys to make mess) and the face at the counter who says no gets shot.

I will reiterate myself from previous posts. Us blunt ones actually do want to be good at what we do. Some of us enjoy being part of the big machine and doing a small part in OPERATIONAL SUPPORT, at whatever level. It is far less bother to say yes and far worse to say no. Do you not think it is more pleasing to have a happy customer??? Do you think SACs in Clothing Stores (scarce thing) wants to upset everyone and will do it so his boss gets involved to chew his @ss?!???? I do not think so!!!

Some of us want to give the right kit to the right people - but it is not procured properly. The old sunglasses tale pains me. Chief Stacker was probably going from set directives and the phone calls up the line jumped ranks or even changed something that was wrong.
Us stackers don't set the scales or entitlements - YOUR specialists do that - we just manage what we're given (booger all) the way YOUR masters tell us!!!

AAAARGGHHHHHHHHH?!?!!!!!!!!:mad: messenger, shoot, don't.

PS - no-one has prodded me at happy hr about kit. Must have informed customers who are aware of problems and know who to blame.

PS - speak to your Sqn management - they got a copy of same letter I saw.

Better now - spleen vented.

Love you all..............:(

[DelMar]

I too am a member of the 'logistics' branch and as stated, we can only work with what we are given. Blame the DPA for setting up the **** contracts and the boyz at the top of the command chain (stick monkeys !!) for poor policy!

As stated, we are here to help, and it makes our life a lot easier to say yes but often we are following our own rules and regs (AP 830)

Suppose I should hand back my 4 flying suites as I have only used 1 once!!

Perks of the job........ :)

[Mr C Hinecap]

For Fe((s sake!! Thought DelMar was doing soooooo well - shot in the back by one of my own. Why have flying suits? Or are flying suites a new item from Barrack Stores?!?!??? Why? No, really, why? I would love to know. Ever been scaled for one??? Ex UKMAMS? I really really hope so.

If we're going to banter about and make light of serious operational shortages, as we should (else we cry) don't open your wardrobe and have skeletons with zips up them hanging there.

Why do I bother giving a t0$$?!!?

Hope your closed door, cardboard cockpit aircrew fantasy is good for you. :mad: :mad:

[calcogen]

Out of stock items are a common problem in the RAF which often occur to poor stock control. In the case of flying clothing there should be a minimum holding at which the computer system automatically orders new stock. In the good old days large amounts of kit were held at the Depot and replenishment times were small but with the advent of "just in time" ( a money saving device) the kit can arrive just too late.

Solution:

Don't give the SAC a hard time. Speak to the WO or Flight Sergeant IC Clothing Stores. Explain your problem to him. If he tells you that the kit is out of stock at the depot and there is no forecast of delivery from the contractor then speak to OC SCAF. He can then ring up the range manager and apply direct pressure. You might then get a good result.

[Mr C Hinecap]

calcogen - actually a little more complex than that - calculations include complex algorythms that take stock consumption into account and not just minimum stock levels. What would the point be of keeping a minimum quantity if no-one ever demanded it? Trust me on this one - know too much to be normal here.

The problem is NOT poor stock control - the problem IS poor procurement, not helped by the fact every man jack and his dog seems to want one. If there was a depot it would be empty!!! I refer you to my earlier posts on this thread - I am placing facts here, not my interpretation of them. The problem is so widespread and far gone that no matter how much you hassle the SNCOs, civvy storemen or OC SCAF, there ain't none in the system. If I could get them, I'd tell you!!!!!

Oh - by the way - which Service is the lead for all clothing? The Army I believe. Hmmmmm.

[Talking Radalt]

"Don't give the SAC a hard time"
I find it is the SACs who are the worst offenders! Most of those I have had to deal with in terms of supply are on some kind of power trip, often using the "Yeah but it's not our fault you're not entitled" excuse to withhold items that are clearly visible behind the defensive position known as a counter. Those of you who post here saying you want to be as helpful as possible and that you are fully on side, may I suggest rebriefing your troops accordingly.
If the kit's there, GIVE IT TO US, and if not do all you can to get it instead of doing all you can to justify to us why you shouldn;t.:mad:

[Mr C Hinecap]

YOUR TRADE & BRANCH SPONSORS SET THE SCALES.

WE ONLY MANAGE THEM!!!!!

Please, please take it up with THEM. The SAC would be guilty of professional misconduct and open himself up for prosecution, just to give you something you WANT instead of something your senior specialists have bothered to procure because you NEED it.

Your problem, get YOUR experts to sort it. Ask Clothing Stores for the paperwork to amend scalings - they can help staff it.

[PICKS135]

suggest anyone having difficulty getting flying suits takes the photo of 'forces sweetheart' with them to stores and ask how come she got all brand new kit.
Squippers at LUK used to have a store of kit in the main bay all on the NCO i/c flying clothings inventory. Talk nicely to squippers, you might be surprised how far it gets you ;)

[Talk Reaction]

In defence of our logistically minded brethren, I have to say that for months now the suppliers on my unit have been sending copies of signals and letters to the sqn, keeping us pretty well updated. Doesn't excuse the problem, but points the finger clearly where it belongs!

Maybe the MoD should use Silvermans as their kit supplier
- instead of relying on us turning to them!!

[Mad_Mark]

Mr C Hinecap,

The old sunglasses tale pains me. Chief Stacker was probably going from set directives and the phone calls up the line jumped ranks or even changed something that was wrong.

I was not having a go at the stackers, although from all accounts they weren't too helpful and were even (as those of you at Ice Station Kilo may know) rude and obstructive. The point I was making is they way my collegue handled it. He was short of flying clothing and so pointed out that he was not properly equiped to fly. This got the ball rolling and within the hour the problem was sorted (whether by the stackers reading the scales properly or by the scales being changed - which seems unlikely since my trade have been issued sunglasses as far back as I remember).

If short of kit, bring it up to the execs on your sqn. If it get desperate, suggest that very soon you will not be properly equiped to go flying. Things (stock, procurement, procedures, whatever the problem) may then actually get sorted out (yeah right :rolleyes: )

MadMark!!! :mad:

[up5]

:confused: During a spell in the emerald toilet i was informed that crews are no longer entitled to smocks as it is not a cold climate according to the scaling auth? If this auth has been to the emerald toilet and tasked in the wee hours when its -10 and below i think he would change his policy. But hey it aint gonna happen lets just stay cold and fatigued. All very well saying you can't fly due to kit problems but it doesn't placate boss.:(

[Rude C'man]

Thanks all for your replies, I’m sorry I have taken time to re-post but I’ve been away on another detachment. I see that I am not the only one who, after 17 years of service, is completely dismayed at the service we are provided by our supply branch.

Canberra, Yes, IMHO he was definitely portraying all signs of a lack of effective intelligence. I have had several dealings with the same young man and yes I have brought it to the attention of his SNCO, who also portrays similar signs. I was there you were not so you’ll have to taker my word for it.

RALF, although I don’t not have to defend my self I will. Am I seriously going to need three different sizes of flying suit? I had been away on an Operational Det and just had all my kit serviced so I had to obtain replacement kit. I was dismayed at the lack of stock and then asked the SAC stacker what else he had on demand due to no stock. As for being busy yes I had been. Especially as I cant close my place of work to general enquiries from my customers when I feel like catching up on my admin. 9-5 Mon-Fri I wish!

Mr C , scarce SAC’s we have several her at Wokka HQ as for the information being passed on , that would be a novel idea Do they teach Officers at Cranwell to keep their troops informed ? I don’t think so.

Del Mar.You pr@t, You are the prime example of someone who is thick!!! You don’t have the intelligence to relise that every time you look at that locker of un-used flying kit, your actually depriving someone else of that unused kit. Get off you arse and hand it in so someone else could get the use of it. I hardly ever where blues so I collected most of it up and returned it years ago, when I need it again I’ll go down and ask for it, probably to be told it’s out of stock!
Watch where you’re pointing your gun next time, me old!!!!!!!

Talking Radalt, I totally agree ,The scene, RIAT last weekend , SAC’s RAF Police, Movers , adminers, UAS all in the brand new pattern fly suit and for why? What happened to front line first!!!!!!!!!!!. I am now, after this weekend, really fecked off at the misappropriation of kit in HM Forces.

As I have just said this weekend the examples of misappropriate use of flying and other clothing was beyond a joke. Sad I know but I took some snaps and will be sending them to HQPTC, JHC and HQSTC along with a polite but firm letter.
I will apologise now for the people I have upset with the use of the word thick. As stated before IMHO he is and all I can say is if those of you out there, who obviously know the individual far better than I do, wish to prove otherwise, go ahead
PROVE IT.
Yes, I can be arrogant, yes I can be wrong and yes at times I do not offer the best service. When I am made aware of that I try to make amends for it. This thread isn’t about me or any other individual it’s actually about the severe lack of serviceable equipment in the military. It’ about fact that our seniors will not, and do not listen to the work force and try to help ease the strain. It’s easy to just say “ I’m not doing my job anymore due to poor or no kit”. I’m a professional who has a can do attitude and will, with out compromising safety, get on with the task in hand, by hook or crook. However, it isn’t right and I like to have a moan occasionally (Ok those who know me that’s the door wide open)

:rolleyes: :mad:

[Talking Radalt]

Rudey me old mucker, it's not arrogance.
As Vince Hanna (played by Al Pacino) says in "Heat"...
"I say what I mean and I do what I say" and NOBODY out-cools Pacino!
:D

Mind you, I recently asked a passing "on-side" stacker how to lay my feet on some Pro-boots.
"Go to stores and tell them XXXX sent you, nudge! nudge! ;)" was his reply. Conclusive proof the kit IS there but is clearly being used as a bargaining tool by the supply chain for their own personal gain.
I believe in the outside world this is known as corruption. :confused:

[Rude C'man]

Hey, heard some good news today. There is a new flying boot , it is the bee's knees and available in various width fittings . Great , guess what I rang stores? It's not in stock!!

I give up .... I'm off to find some Bananas.