Airbus Working With EK on New Order for Flagship A380

[moneyhoon]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-03/airbus-working-with-emirates-on-new-order-for-flagship-a380

[White Knight]

Poor old Glofish:}:}

[Eau de Boeing]

Come on blowee, got my popcorn waiting!

[Odins Raven]

Putting aside any childish airbus vs Boeing arguments, what evidence is there to suggest that any airline facing so much competition could make money when they cannot fill the airplane?

When EK was the only kid in town and monopolised the hub and spoke system it was a great idea to take so many 380s. But you have to wonder whether they can make it work in the future if the profits have dropped so much in spite of the fantastically low overheads they enjoy.

The 380 is magic on transatlantic routes between slot limited airports where it can easily be filled, but even BA and AF haven’t committed to too many orders yet.

Maybe the ME3 first class is guaranteed to pay for the rest of the cabin, unlike the rest of the world where Airlines are dropping First and concentrating on Business and Premium Economy.

[atakacs]

What they should really look into is some sort of upgrade program to the current fleet.
If they could cut 10-15% out of the operating costs at a not too great effort (probably a tough proposition but not impossible IMHO) it could really make the 380 an interesting proposition. But I don't think there is room for many more airframes, either at EK or even worldwide.

[Jack D]

Surely you all recognise spin, from all sides, by now ..

[glofish]

https://i.imgur.com/PUtssy2.jpg

[Jetjock330]

Funny Stuff!!!!

[Dropp the Pilot]

"The new improved A380: now your airline can have one and lose a little less money!"

Inspiring stuff.

[Monarch Man]

Oh goody, I didn’t want a pay-rise or any profit share this year anyway.

[Talparc]

The Ponzi Scheme EK is maintaining with their aircraft purchases must go on.
More Blunderbusses means more money from investors to be collected.
Halas

[DuneMentat]

This is pure speculation but could it be that as part of the deal for more 380's that EK is also getting a very favorable price on 350's and that's what driving the deal?

[recceguy]

The important thing is not to buy Boeings

[Joker11]

I can't see EK getting more A380's, but I will eat my hat if they do.

[EchoKilla]

Joker 11 - I hope you've got some ketchup to make your hat taste better!

:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Kobus Dune]

Joker 11, start wondering which hat it will be ....

[nolimitholdem]

Sorry boys, but it appears glofish won't be the one eating anything...tell us, which do you feel more of: bewilderment or humiliation?

The press release was printed, the media invited, the first dignitaries began filing into the room. Such was the scene on the first day of the Dubai Air Show, when Airbus SE had planned to unveil a keenly awaited lifeline for its A380 super jumbos from the aircraft’s biggest fan: Emirates.

Instead: nothing. In fact, worse than nothing. An initial delay, not unusual at these major signing ceremonies, gave way to confusion. Bewilderment turned to humiliation when a model aircraft was carried into the briefing room and the gray cloth covering it slipped off -- revealing the Boeing Co. logo on its tail.

Out of nowhere, the U.S. planemaker suddenly conquered Room 6 on the upper level of the main exhibition hall, with its representatives taking the stage. Airbus officials who dominated the room on arrival quietly slipped out during the press conference as their rival landed a stinging blow: Emirates committed to buying $15.1 billion of Boeing’s 787-10 Dreamliners. That was similar to the order value that Airbus had planned.

Airbus Suffers Early Dubai Blow as Boeing Wins Surprise 787 Deal (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-12/emirates-orders-boeing-dreamliners-at-dubai-for-15-1-billion)

"quietly slipped out during the press conference" like certain posters quietly slipped out of this thread...lol

[Schnowzer]

I wonder how much influence the Trumpster’s America first policy had on the order? The press release talks continuously about US jobs and economics.

[Icarus2001]

May as well close this thread. The verdict is in and Boeing won.

[ironbutt57]

didn't the "buyback" deal re the 380 become reality?

[GillEx737]

Still another day today...let's wait and see

[pilotguy1222]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/emirates-puts-pressure-on-airbus-to-commit-to-ailing-a380-jumbo

Sheds some light on why there is no deal announced just yet.

[Hansol]

The Air Show isn't over till the fat lady sings.

[Buckshot]

First retired A380 superjumbo parked at Tarmac Aerosave awaiting sale or scrap (http://www.traveller.com.au/first-retired-a380-superjumbo-parked-at-tarmac-aerosave-awaiting-sale-or-scrap-gziiuo)

[Divertnow]

First retired A380 superjumbo parked at Tarmac Aerosave awaiting sale or scrap (http://www.traveller.com.au/first-retired-a380-superjumbo-parked-at-tarmac-aerosave-awaiting-sale-or-scrap-gziiuo)

The lifespan is pretty poor! Btw, check out those first class seats! Now that’s game changing (but ours are still impressive)!

[Kobus Dune]

430 aircraft (A320 and A321) ordered today at Dubaï Air Show, in a single contract.

To be allocated to Frontier Airlines (US) JetSMART (Chile) Volaris (Mexico) and Wizz Air (Hungary)

Who cares about a little A380 order from a Gulf company ?


http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press...ily-order.html

[WakeTurb_69]

777x's and 787s! Reminds me of the mixed fleet 340/330 days. Life on the Boeing is going to be Hellish!

[motley flight crue]

Flydubai order for 225 737’s seems crazy.

Meanwhile, Boeing on Wednesday announced an order from Gulf airline flydubai for 225 medium-haul 737 MAX aircraft with a list price of $27bn, hailing it as the "largest-ever single-aisle jet order" from a Middle East carrier.

Copied from BBC news!

[Kobus Dune]

.....hailing it as the "largest-ever single-aisle jet order" from a Middle East carrier.....
Copied from BBC news!

They couldn't say more, because the Indigo order for 430 Airbus (single-aisle, by the way) is hailed as the biggest order ever in the history of civil aviation.

[Buckshot]

777x's and 787s! Reminds me of the mixed fleet 340/330 days. Life on the Boeing is going to be Hellish!

Standing by for announcement that 777 captains going to the 78 will have to move to the RHS and there will be minimum age requirement of 40 to sit in either seat. Meanwhile they will also advertise for DEC 787

[glofish]

The thread was about EK and the A380. So lets leave the order of 320ies and the 77/78 MFF behind for a moment and read the AW&ST of today. The last sentence:

Dubai Airshow will be remembered as the week that precipitated a tough decision for the A380: A merciful death with considerable up-front losses or a lingering death with greater losses spaced out over a much longer period of time.

It's in the open what many have said for some time.
Now Timmy is playing hardball to shove all the damage down Airbus' throat, i guess.

[Kobus Dune]

What else could you have been expecting from AW&ST, a magazine which has always been heralding US industry and nothing else ?

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

777x's and 787s! Reminds me of the mixed fleet 340/330 days. Life on the Boeing is going to be Hellish!

Seems to me FZ will be taking over a lot if not most of EK short and mid haul with the 73-10MAX... fleet of 250 aircraft under code share.

777x to replace bulk of the 380 fleet in the distance future with no airbus order in sight for now.

[jack schidt]

777x to replace bulk of the 380 fleet in the distance future with no airbus order in sight for now.

I don’t see the current A380 operation route network changing too much in the next 2 decades with plenty more A380s to be delivered and 100 here already to be utilised.

J

[Mr Mac]

Humble SLF here who like most people who are passengers actually really like your A380 - (in fact with you today pm ex Man) . I am lucky to fly upstairs and have to say that it is one of my favourite aeroplanes, and I like your Bar area as compared with other 380,s I have flown on with other carriers. The 777 like 787 is another ali tube same as 330 / 350 so not really that different. I will be sad when the 380 goes as it will mean the accountants have won another round in the race to the bottom.


Regards
Mr Mac

[ironbutt57]

Humble SLF here who like most people who are passengers actually really like your A380 - (in fact with you today pm ex Man) . I am lucky to fly upstairs and have to say that it is one of my favourite aeroplanes, and I like your Bar area as compared with other 380,s I have flown on with other carriers. The 777 like 787 is another ali tube same as 330 / 350 so not really that different. I will be sad when the 380 goes as it will mean the accountants have won another round in the race to the bottom.


Regards
Mr Mac

while none of us as crew are particularly fond of the bean counters, they do see the bottom line, and thats what keeps airplanes flying at the end of the day...as crew and pax we all like the biggest and best, but for the bean counters, biggest isnt always the best..

[Commander Taco]

As reported in Flight International 19 September, Teal Group’s Richard Aboulafia had this to say about the A380:
..he described it as “born to die”.
The final delivery will take place by 2020 “with unpleasant losses all around”.
“Launched with a hideous mix of hubris, shoddy market analysis, nationalism and simple wishful thinking, the A380 was destined for a short, painful life”.
“This has been a learning experience, albeit one for people who should have known better from the start. When launching a new jet, it’s important to survey the market trends, regulatory changes, likely technological developments, and customer preferences. None of that was done here”.

Oh, and it sure is an ugly brute too.

[sealear]

Well as nice as the 380 is upstairs.... if the a/c will result in heavy losses then I don't care how nice it is. The bean counters are right, twin engine a/c with fewer seats are more economical and at the end of the day that's how airlines stay in business.

I hope FZ takes over some of the short-mid haul routes. There are a few that aren't very well suited to the 777 :confused:

[fatbus]

Some route done by FZ some by 787. Problem between now and the move to DWC @2025+ is peak arrival plus pax numbers. Phase in of 779 might see some of the lighter 380 routes . Maybe the fat lady is warming up her voice!

[diamantaire]

I believe ek is adding 98 pax in y on the new a380 ?
Anyone can confirm this ?

[Talparc]

789 the perfect aircraft for flights to India!
Sure you guys will love it, smells like curry.

[Hansol]

We seem to be seeing the resizing of FZ and EK with them ultimately being brought under one brand. Not sure what that will mean for T+C's

[Schnowzer]

We seem to be seeing the resizing of FZ and EK with them ultimately being brought under one brand. Not sure what that will mean for T+C's

That's a pretty big leap, what evidence is there for that opinion?

[CaptainProp]

“Not sure what that will mean for T+C's”

Same as always in the Middle East and Europe, they go down.

[KippaLippa]

.....Not sure what that will mean for T+C's

hahahhaha, they'll compare every single aspect in the two airlines, get the worse, take some 1% to 10% off it, and that will be the new one for the big merged company

[The Outlaw]

That's a pretty big leap, what evidence is there for that opinion?

The naivety you display is laughable, have you never been part of, or even know what happens during a merger?

Make no mistake, this is a merger despite what HH wrote.

It's they only thing that makes financial sense.

[Emma Royds]

The removal of the FlyDubai brand in its entirety creates the very same void, that the company was formed to fill in the first place. I can't see the local hierarchy being comfortable, with witnessing one of the other budget operators from the Gulf, successfully establishing themselves in Dubai. Especially so if the airline is not from the UAE.

National pride normally always wins over any potential financial gain in this part of the world.

[Hansol]

I don't think we can describe FZ as a budget carrier. They have business class (with lie flat beds now), in flight entertainment etc etc. As their offering has moved up EK's is set to move down, to a point where they will fit very nicely.

The creation of FZ was not to fill a void, it was because a very successful "true" LCC was operating out of Sharjah.

[Emma Royds]

I know we are moving off at a tangent here but worth highlighting that Air Arabia and Emirates serve markets at the opposite ends of the spectrum. FlyDubai was set up to prevent the likes of Jazeera beating them to it in Dubai. Before FlyDubai was even thought of, it was obvious that DXB was facing growth issues in the future and filling slots with narrow bodies, is never conducive for achieving the optimum growth in terms of passenger numbers.

[Kobus Dune]

As reported in Flight International 19 September, Teal Group’s Richard Aboulafia had this to say about the A380:
...
But who the hell is Richard Aboulalafia ?

Just did a Google of "Teal Group " :

Teal Group Corporation, an aerospace and defense consulting company, provides market analysis and forecasting services for the aerospace and defense sector.

Based in Virginia, USA - to comment Airbus products ? do you need more ? and we have to listen to that sort of people ( half a dozen retired guys in a rented office ? with money coming from US industry to keep them afloat?) In fact, I'm going to find a couple of colleagues and friends, and we will make our own "consulting firm ", creating the buzz about ourselves...

Guys, please stop swallowing all of that.

By the way, today the A 350-1000 got double EASA and FAA certification, in a record time. Beautiful pictures in the link below.

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2017/11/airbus-a350-1000-receives-easa-and-faa-type-certification--.html

[nolimitholdem]

"Guys, please stop swallowing all of that. Instead, swallow this."

Classic! :ok:

[Mr Mac]

IRONBUT57
Its taken a while to come back to you re the 380. You may have a point with the economy of a twin in comparison with 4 and therefore fuel burn, but my point was about the passenger experience which far outstrips that on offer on the 777 on which ever carrier. Also with regards further orders for the 380 by EK what I would say is that some of your 380 are getting quite worn, and the replacement's( judging by the one I flew out of Man on the lunchtime service on the 17/11) are needed, if they are going to be retained, which given the investment made would seem that they are for the foreseeable future anyway.


As for cost cutting by accountants I have noticed (having flown with you since pre 2000) the accountants axe at work on your services since around 2010, and that is just related to on board food and beverage service. Accountants never seem to run good businesses they need an industry professional in any business who knows what the company does, be it aviation or any other business. They keep the score so to speak, it is for others to make the business a success be it by product and or service. My own sector in construction is currently riddled (in the UK at least) by once large companies being brought low by accountants / Quantity surveyors who have graduated to senior management, which they now seem incapable of actually running the business by making unwise decisions purely based on producing short term figures . Anyway rant over as I am now waiting to board one of your 777 bound for DXB from Cape Town for the long haul home.


Regards
Mr Mac

[glofish]

You may have a point with the economy of a twin in comparison with 4 and therefore fuel burn, but my point was about the passenger experience which far outstrips that on offer on the 777 on which ever carrier

The problem is that not enough slf are ready to pay more for the additional cost of the "outstripping experience"! A flight in a business jet would be even more outstripping, but everyone agrees that it comes at a cost. With the 380 EK, Airbus blinded themselves and the passengers with the assumption that a bar, a shower and additional insulation just came with the plane at no additional cost. Each pound and each square foot costs, dear managers and beancounters, not only employees, that is the hard lesson for your arrogance!

[ironbutt57]

Mr Mac...I dont work there, but did spend time in the industry...outstripping experiences are great, I agree..it's a nicer ride, unfortunately passenger liking, although touted by the airlines in all their adverts, is in fact far down the food chain of importance...

[WB1900]

the a380 becomes an old airplane slowly but shure
it time will go past as new technologies are raising, in 2 years from now nobody will take notice of a 380 as there are new airplanes with fairly more advance technology considering the a380 an old fart.
this advantage will not last forever no matter what u put in
TV and inflight internet becoming standard with the new deliveries of A350,B787, even 737max and A320 Neo
SAT COM is not an advanced TEC anymore as provider araise on every corner. Even SAT Phones for private consumers become considerable cheaper in the last recent years.
so do u still think that EK has an advantage just because they offer inflight internet


WAKE UP and look around you / this is a normal good, every on has that these days nothing special anymore.

[Joker11]

Joker 11 - I hope you've got some ketchup to make your hat taste better!

No need for ketchup anymore. 787 it is! ;)

[Plank Cap]

Now that the 1st class tractor passengers can look forward to the new fully enclosed suites, announced with great fanfare at the DXB airshow, when might the poor old 380 first class pax hope to be offered something similar? Or has the money run out for cabin upgrades on a certain fleet?

Surely one can't have the lowly Boeing aircraft leading the company's product range ....??!!

Jennifer Anniston is not going to be happy.

[777-200LR]

Now that the 1st class tractor passengers can look forward to the new fully enclosed suites, announced with great fanfare at the DXB airshow, when might the poor old 380 first class pax hope to be offered something similar? Or has the money run out for cabin upgrades on a certain fleet?

Surely one can't have the lowly Boeing aircraft leading the company's product range ....??!!

Think of it this way, the new 777s went from 8 suites to 6 suites (25% reduction). If the A380 were to do the same, the four suites along the windows would likely have to be reduced to 3 on each side due to the size of the newer suites, and then the middle row of 6 suites would be reduced to 3. That would mean a total of 9 Suites from the previous 14 suites (36% reduction). If weight is not a factor, it will come down to the famous word 'Yield' and what that reduction would mean for the Airbus vs Boeing, per seat, per mile, per kg of fuel, per day, 365 days a year......I'd rather leave that to PhD bean counters

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

I think you will find the suites only fitted on new deliveries for now. Retrofit would cost a fortune. Plus the loss of revenue. Maybe it will happen, but certainly not quickly. Mind, there are 10+ tractors stored at DWC, so maybe they will use the opportunity to do retrofits, or maybe not.

SyB :zzz:

[fatbus]

That's great! Does that mean the west coast gets them?

[Dropp the Pilot]

There's no way a proper enclosed suite would fit on a A380. The ceiling is so low that if you enclosed it the space would look like those Daily Mail articles about the basement hole where the nice-neighbour-who-kept-to-himself held a sex slave captive for 7 years. Not good for the brochures.

[Joker11]

There's no way a proper enclosed suite would fit on a A380. The ceiling is so low that if you enclosed it the space would look like those Daily Mail articles about the basement hole where the nice-neighbour-who-kept-to-himself held a sex slave captive for 7 years. Not good for the brochures.

Brillent! Thanks for the good laugh.

[Commander Taco]

June 5, 2018 / 1:34 AM / Updated 8 hours agoA decade after debut, first A380 jumbos to be broken up
Tim Hepher (https://www.reuters.com/journalists/tim-hepher)4 Min Read


SYDNEY (Reuters) - A German investment company said on Tuesday it would strip two unwanted Airbus A380 superjumbo passenger jets for parts after failing to find an airline willing to keep them flying following a decision by Singapore Airlines not to keep them in service.

The decision by Dortmund-based Dr Peters Group deals a fresh blow to the planemaker’s efforts to maintain market interest in the double-decker, barely 10 years after it went into service hailed by heads of state as a symbol of European ambition.

“Psychologically it is not good for Airbus, but this is a very large aircraft with a very small second-hand market,” said UK-based aerospace analyst Howard Wheeldon.

Despite strong reviews for its quiet and spacious cabin, demand for the 544-seater has fallen as many airlines drop the industry’s largest four-engined aircraft in favor of smaller twin-engined ones that are more efficient, and easier to fill.

“It’s too big. There was a battle for airline fashions and it lost out,” Wheeldon said.

Airbus says the iconic jet will eventually prove itself as travel demand saturates airport capacity at major cities.

“We can’t comment on the decision by Dr Peters, which is the owner of the aircraft,” an Airbus spokesman said.

“We remain confident in the secondary market for the A380 and the potential to extend the operator base.”

Singapore Airlines launched A380 services amid fanfare in December 2007, but returned the first two aircraft to their German financiers when leases expired some 10 years later.

The two discarded aircraft were repainted and flown to Tarbes in the French Pyrenees to be stored, and since then their fate has been uncertain as their owner looked for other “After extensive as well as intensive negotiations with various airlines such as British Airways, HiFly and IranAir, Dr Peters Group has decided to sell the aircraft components and will recommend this approach to its investors,” the company said in a statement emailed to Reuters.

Airbus has been working for months to try to stimulate a second-hand market for the A380 to encourage new airlines to take the risk of investing in the plane, knowing the asset would be worth the right amount when they decide to sell it on.

When it was launched, the A380 boasted highly customized interiors to help airlines promote a luxury feel, but the cost of replacing such bespoke fittings is now seen as a handicap.

“The problem is the cost of reconfiguration. It is $40 million or more per plane,” a senior industry source said.

Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC (https://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=RR.L)833.0
RR.LLondon Stock Exchange
-6.20(-0.74%)
https://theairlinewebsite.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=https://www.reuters.wallst.com/reuters/next/chart/chartsgen2?symbols=RR.L%26numberOfDays=90%26width=286%26heig ht=178%26realtime=0%26scaleFactor=2%26ChartsGen2=true&key=51eaf8be3d609479f395b129fa0a6986af578dccfd315c02b9cefdc2 8538f568

RR.L

PARTS RAIDThe planes will not be scrapped entirely, but their huge frames will be combed for valuable components such as landing gears and electronics, a Dr Peters official told Reuters.

Their engines have already been removed and leased back to manufacturer Rolls-Royce (RR.L (https://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=RR.L)) for use as spares.

U.S.-based VAS Aero Services will be responsible for extracting and selling parts.

Dr Peters said the deal would yield a positive return for investors in funds used to finance the jets. It operates a number of boutique funds targeted at wealthy individuals and has two more A380s in Singapore that could face the same fate.

While dismantling the first two passenger-carrying A380s will embarrass Airbus and dismay the plane’s 3,800 workers, later examples of the flagship jet may not be as vulnerable.

Early copies of a new plane tend to be less efficient and Singapore Airlines recently ordered some new A380s. However, overall demand is thinner than Airbus expected, forcing it to slow production to a trickle while looking for more business.

Still, Emirates, the largest A380 customer, is keeping faith with the jet which brings millions of passengers a year through its Dubai hub and is associated with the airline’s global brand.

Throwing the loss-making program a lifeline for a decade, Emirates recently ordered up to 36 more A380s and set out plans on Tuesday to install 56 Premium Economy seats.

Reporting by Tim Hepher; editing by Mark Potter and Jason Neely

[halas]

Saw another all white frame in Singapore yesterday.

halas

[Joker11]

Saw another all white frame in Singapore yesterday.

halas

I believe they are retiring 5 frames and taking on 5 new onrs which means their A380s will remain the same.

Wonder of this white one belongs to the German company as well.

P.S The same company leased 5 A380s to AF and 4 B777s to EK.

[gtaflyer]

can someone explain to me why they would buying more aircraft only to park them in DWC?.. Oh I get it the more they park the more the airline looks busy as if its making money...smoke and mirrors amazing

[atakacs]

Could be that there is a significant efficiency difference between old 3 class models and lattest 2 class a380?

[tdracer]

Singapore has long kept a relatively young fleet and avoids doing heavy maintenance such as 'D' checks. This is nothing new - they been doing that with their passenger fleet for decades. While it's true the newer A380s are somewhat lighter than the early build and hence more efficient (something that's pretty common on any commercial aircraft), I think the over-riding concern is that Singapore doesn't like to operate older aircraft (at least for passenger service - they tend to hang on to freighter aircraft much longer). The A380s that Singapore is returning are coming off lease - assuming they're meeting the return requirements for the aircraft, it doesn't cost them anything to give them back to the lease company.
What is new is that apparently nobody is particularly interested in obtaining Singapore used A380 aircraft.

[atakacs]

Does anyone have a ballpark idea of the asked price for a flyworthy retired 10y SQ a380?
I understand you can't buy the engines anyway?

[The Turtle]

Could be that there is a significant efficiency difference between old 3 class models and lattest 2 class a380?
So efficient that my flight to BKK yesterday had 15 in business and about 110 in economy...

[glofish]

What is new is that apparently nobody is particularly interested in obtaining Singapore used A380 aircraft.
plus what is more telling is that Singapore does not buy the same category aircraft as replacement.
They go "two legs good, four legs bad", as many have always predicted.

[fatbus]

So efficient that my flight to BKK yesterday had 15 in business and about 110 in economy...
the loads should be more of a concern than what aircraft is operating the sector.

[donpizmeov]

Gloie SQ replaced their 380s with that double twin, the 380.

[glofish]

Ah, i see. Just as efficient as any quarter pounded VP position at EK is enhanced with a local twin VP ....

[donpizmeov]

That's the one.