The Defence Secretary's Wandering Hands

[DODGYOLDFART]

I saw on the on the BBC News this morning that Michael Fallon had been forced to confess that he had put his hand on the knee of a reporter whilst at dinner some years ago. WTF is this PC World coming to when Government Ministers are forced to own up to such a trivial event? Where are they going to draw a line under all this nonsense?

Now being very close to my ninth decade I can look back on my life and the dealings I had with the fair sex and realise that that under current rules I have been a very naughty boy indeed! Yes, I do accept that some of my behaviour was by todays mores a bit OTT but I have no recollection of the ladies actually complaining at the time. In fact I am sure that many of them liked the attention I gave them. I might add that I always took no to mean exactly that, no.

Mr Fallon I may not agree with all your policy's but you sure have my greatest sympathy on this one!:)

[NutLoose]

I confess, I have touched a bum many times....... I wipe it most mornings :p


I do feel sorry for these people where what was deemed as an innocent encounter is hyped by the media into something more sinister.

[hoodie]

I saw on the on the BBC News this morning that Michael Fallon had been forced to confess that he had put his hand on the knee of a reporter whilst at dinner some years ago.

And the reporter concerned says:

I have received a number of calls today from newspapers and broadcasters asking me to comment on a claim that I was the victim of sexual harassment by a current Cabinet minister.

I have spoken previously about a Cabinet minister who repeatedly put his hand on my knee during a party conference dinner. I calmly and politely explained to him that, if he did it again, I would “punch him in the face”. He withdrew his hand and that was the end of the matter.

I have had no issues since with the man in question and do not regard the incident as anything but mildly amusing, which is why I have declined to name him. It has also been claimed that the same minister made remarks to me about my breasts. If he did, I certainly don’t recall those comments.

Wild rumours and claims are circulating about many male MPs at Westminster in a media feeding frenzy. I have worked in and around Westminster for 20 years and, as far as I am aware, incidents of genuine harassment involve only a small number of MPs from all parties.

I believe it is absurd and wrong to treat workplace banter and flirting – and even misjudged sexual overtures – between consenting adults as being morally equivalent to serious sexual harassment or assault.

It demeans genuine victims of real offences. Anyone with any allegations against an MP, or anyone else, should speak up now and provide the evidence to ensure any necessary action is taken.

I have not been a victim and I don’t wish to take part in what I believe has now become a Westminster witch hunt.

Well said, JH-B

[Fareastdriver]

I'm glad I'm not rich or famous.

[Onceapilot]

I wonder if he will "Fall-on" his sword? ;)

OAP

[Basil]

I'm glad I'm not rich or famous.
Doesn't mean they won't be coming for you when they're finished with this lot :E

[Basil]

I wonder if he will "Fall-on" his sword? ;)

OAP
Reminiscent of a woman saying that making love to a well known large MP was "like having a wardrobe fall on top of you with the key sticking out" ;)

[jolihokistix]

One lady once asked me, "why don't you put your hand on my knee?" I blushed and muttered something to the effect that I would never be so bold, especially as I was under the impression that ladies generally objected.
She replied, "Oh no, I really enjoy having my knee felt, so please go ahead to your heart's content."

[Danny42C]

I recall a young WRAF who was complaining that we were always ogling her rather shapely legs. "Look", I said, "the day will come when men no longer wish to look at your legs - and are you looking forward to that day ?" She had the grace to shake her head.

[Tankertrashnav]

When I was training as a schoolteacher one of our lecturers was a very pleasant woman who could best be described as "touchy, feely". During conversation she would often put a hand on your arm or shoulder. There was absolutely nothing sexual in this, it was just her way of being friendly. She once told us that she would often give an upset child a hug at school, but said that as men we should probably avoid this as it might well lead to accusations of sexual assault.

The point is, as well as women there are many men whose instinct is to touch, but in a completely non sexual way, and I fear that those men are now going to get dragged into the current hysteria. Last week the MP who wrote requesting the Brexit views of university lecturers was accused of McCarthyism, which was just ridiculous, but I fear that the current outrage which is being whipped up by the news media is far more akin to the anti communist witch trials of the 50s.

[just another jocky]

I believe it is absurd and wrong to treat workplace banter and flirting – and even misjudged sexual overtures – between consenting adults as being morally equivalent to serious sexual harassment or assault.

It demeans genuine victims of real offences. Anyone with any allegations against an MP, or anyone else, should speak up now and provide the evidence to ensure any necessary action is taken.

I have not been a victim and I don’t wish to take part in what I believe has now become a Westminster witch hunt.



...well said Ms H-B.

[NutLoose]

I remember working ouside at night on a frosty evening and one of the guys complaining his hands were cold, one of the WRAF engineers with us pulled the front of her overalls open (wearing clothing underneath ) and said, here... warm them on these... then we all burst out laughing.. Just banter and it is when people take things seriously that the fun goes out of the world.

At Halton we had a young stunning WRAF about 17 Yrs old on one of the courses and when we used to put on our overalls in the morning she would peel off her shirt and always wore a tight white fitting teeshirt under it...... you could here a pin drop as the whole workshop just stood and watched this morning ritual, she was totally oblivious of the effect she used to have and eventually one of the instructors approached her and suggested she should use a classroom off one side of the workshops to get ready in the mornings.

[langleybaston]

WTF are these politicians playing at?

We have:

1. BREXIT readiness apparently a shambles [or, if not, nobody gives a monkeys about correcting that impression]

2. The NHS said to be in crisis.

3. The armed services hollowed out and the defence chiefs hanging on for pension rather than forcing attention by resignation

4. Highly respected polls predicting a Corbyn Red Government lined up to make a proper, final attempt at trashing the country

AND ALL THEY CAN THINK ABOUT IS WHAT SOUNDS TO ME AND MY WIFE LIKE MILD TO MODERATELY NAUGHTY HUMAN MALE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR.

Grow up, you bunch of preening privileged plonkers.

[OldnDaft]

There is a huge difference between being tactile and being a sexual predator. This government do not appear to be able to differentiate.....

[Not_a_boffin]

To be fair - the people "playing at" stuff appear to be the media (no doubt egged on by certain pollies and pressure groups for their own ends).


There's an entire outrage bus driving industry that relies on ishoo politics like this to sustain itself and incidentally prevents the major issues you identify being addressed.


Not that explaining to people that the NHS and other major public expenditure items like pensions are unsustainable on the current basis of provision is something many pollies relish doing....

[roving]

When Alan Clark, pure cat mint for women, was a junior defence minister the 'girls' used to form an orderly queue. There is the wonderful story of him bedding not only a Judge's wife, but both his daughters too. The problem with many of today's male politicians is that they lack charm.

After retiring from Parliament Clark subsequently decided to return and sought a new seat. Against all expectations he secured selection as the candidate for Kensington & Chelsea. There was simply no way the good ladies of Chelsea were going to pass up on that opportunity.

[lsh]

Hardly a revelation; it happened very many years ago and, according to the D.T. was sorted at the time, "they remain friends"!

lsh

[pr00ne]

"MODERATELY NAUGHTY HUMAN MALE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR"


For goodness sake when will you dinosaurs realise that a woman's body is not your territory nor is it a subject for manipulation of power and abuse of privilege!

[DirtyProp]

For goodness sake when will you dinosaurs realise that a woman's body is not your territory nor is it a subject for manipulation of power and abuse of privilege!I don't think any of us dinosaurs have any problems with that.
The problems we have are towards the PC brigade which, as usual, feels the need to get offended on behalf of someone else - even when that someone else apparently said there's no need to - and blows something trivial and stupid absolutely out of proportions.

[Basil]

When Alan Clark, pure cat mint for women, was a junior defence minister the 'girls' used to form an orderly queue. There is the wonderful story of him bedding not only a Judge's wife, but both his daughters too. The problem with many of today's male politicians is that they lack charm.

After retiring from Parliament Clark subsequently decided to return and sought a new seat. Against all expectations he secured selection as the candidate for Kensington & Chelsea. There was simply no way the good ladies of Chelsea were going to pass up on that opportunity.
At the time it looked to me as if the Judge had a lucky escape :E

WIKI:
While involved in the Matrix Churchill trial he was cited in a divorce case in South Africa, in which it was revealed he had had affairs with Valerie Harkess, the wife of a South African barrister (and part-time junior judge), and her daughters Josephine and Alison.
After sensationalist tabloid headlines, Clark's wife Jane* remarked upon what Clark had called "the coven" with the line: "Well, what do you expect when you sleep with below stairs types?", and referred to her husband as an "S, H, one, T".

* Clark married his wife, Jane, in 1958 when she was 16 and he was 30.

[langleybaston]

"MODERATELY NAUGHTY HUMAN MALE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR"


For goodness sake when will you dinosaurs realise that a woman's body is not your territory nor is it a subject for manipulation of power and abuse of privilege!

Of course there is and was and never will be MODERATELY NAUGHTY HUMAN FEMALE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR.

Where oh! where have we got to? Snowflakes, PC, witch hunts ............ and a complete sensayuma failure.

[Wander00]

Does it mean that blood flows through Fallon's veins despite the exterior impression to the contrary

[Thomas coupling]

I think this has turned into a national (dare I say global) rout.
The band wagon is well and trully being jumped on (unlike some women I suspect, who might be alleging has also happened to them)
These minor allegations make a mockery of the whole process and muddy the value and meaning behind serious sexual harassment claims.
Women who wait years before they come forward need to defend the action at the time it happens - failing to do that gives off the wrong message to the person committing the act and confuses society years down the line when it actually does resurface.
What happened to womens confidence in all this time? Why do they have to wait (a) years later and (b) until someone strong and brave enough coughs up first to then join in?
There is flirting and there is assault. One is an enjoyable part of life, the other is dark and sinister.
The lines have blurred and everyone will now suffer as a consequence.
What with the nanny state / being PC and now this....where is british society going to end up?

[teeteringhead]

pr00ne

I think Fallon realised her body was not his property when she offered to punch him in the face.

Personally I think that's a saner reaction than much we are seeing today.

One was taught "The boy scouts and the girl guides..." (geddit)

And of course rejection (with or without violence or the threat thereof) is one facet of that guidance.......

And certainly there are predatory females too..........

[NutLoose]

The trouble is happens with everything, I watched the shock horror story on the news this morning about the woman who had fled abuse and had been rehomed 7? times as each place was not to her satisfaction etc.. I personally think they went overboard to please her, I would have given her two property choices and that would have been it until permanent accomodation became available, not allowing her to ask for move after move after move, surely they had met their obligations at property one.

This one

BBC Two - Victoria Derbyshire, The domestic violence victims 'left begging for a home' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05ll1rj)

And it struck me that while they are complaining and making a big issue about it on the news, what gets missed is the thousands of families evicted and on the street, the homeless men and women who have not got a roof over their heads, true she has children, but so do the families also in the same predicament, why should she expect priority over those families? End of the day there isn't sufficent housing stock to go around and its a sad fact of life.
One just hopes that press sensationalising one facet of the problem does not work to the detriment of those other equally deserving cases. It is often from what I have seen the single male that bears the brunt of the lack of accomodation availability and get shuffled down the list in times of need.


As for Fallon, storm in a teacup.

[cyclic35]

One lady once asked me, "why don't you put your hand on my knee?" I blushed and muttered something to the effect that I would never be so bold, especially as I was under the impression that ladies generally objected.
She replied, "Oh no, I really enjoy having my knee felt, so please go ahead to your heart's content."


Many years ago there was a radio programme “Round the Horne”
Betty Marsden, played a character Judy Coolibar, an aggressive Australian who managed to find some kind of sexist insult in everything the male characters said.

In this exchange (From memory) she said to Kenneth Horne “I know while you’re sitting there, you are making surreptitious glances at my legs”.
Kenneth Horne replied,”My dear Lady, I would never do such a thing”.
Her reply was, “Why, are you some kind of prude”. :)

[Fonsini]

Heading out to a business lunch one day with a female boss who decided to wear a little black number to impress the clients.

"Does my bum look big in this dress?" she asked wiggling her derriere at me.

"I'm not sure, something is blocking out the sun" I replied, earning me a healthy slap on the back of the head.

It's all about the relationship you have with someone, you learn where the boundaries are and its different for every person. A former colleague of mine was fired for sending a junior female colleague a spreadsheet entitled Tertiary Income Tax.xls except he abbreviated it T....I...T.xls. He had previously given her a poor annual performance review and this was her revenge.

Interesting addendum to the first story, that same female boss with the derriere just offered me a job and I'm moving up to Chicago to work for her again. Funny how things turn out.

[MPN11]

...
And certainly there are predatory females too..........Indeed! Thinking back, I could identify ... hmmm ... at least 4 instances*. All were very pleasant encounters. :cool:

I was of course much younger, and incredibly good-looking, back then. And my back was in better nick ;)

* Make that 5 :)

[ShyTorque]

Of course there is and was and never will be MODERATELY NAUGHTY HUMAN FEMALE SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR.

I beg to differ..... Once, in my more vulnerable youth, I was asked, by an extremely attractive lady, in front of the assembled throng at a formal event (Quote): "Well, are you going to f*** me or not?"

And she didn't use the word "feel"......

The comment caused jaws to drop all round, including mine.
Obviously, at times like this one has to behave like a complete gentleman.

[Melchett01]

I beg to differ..... Once, in my more vulnerable youth, I was asked, by an extremely attractive lady, in front of the assembled throng at a formal event (Quote): "Well, are you going to f*** me or not?"

And she didn't use the word "feel"......

The comment caused jaws to drop all round, including mine.
Obviously, at times like this one has to behave like a complete gentleman.

You didn't say 'yes please' did you? There are limits to gentlemanly behaviour you know!

[NutLoose]

Did all those present form a queue?

[jindabyne]

Absolutely disgraceful. He should resign forthwith.

[langleybaston]

Indeed! Thinking back, I could identify ... hmmm ... at least 4 instances*. All were very pleasant encounters. :cool:

I was of course much younger, and incredibly good-looking, back then. And my back was in better nick ;)

* Make that 5 :)

Its your front that matters if you are put together normally.

[Dougie M]

There was once a single female dentist at Akrotiri who used to stalk into the bar late in the evening and scan the visiting crews for a likely consort for the evening. Normally garrulous young officers would stand like rabbits in the headlamps as she singled out her prey. I was too old, ugly, unfit to be in the selection team but her laser scan put the wind up me alright.
The weaker sex, not.

[Fareastdriver]

I can imagine the screaming and wailing if a film company released a series of films that started with 'Carry On' and at the same time ITV started a sitcom called 'On the Buses'.

[DODGYOLDFART]

All I can add is thank God for all the "Mrs Robinsons" and particularly the one that initiated me. Eternally grateful and never forgotten!:)

[langleybaston]

At 18 years old I read that the ideal high-octane coupling was male 18 female 28.
So where was she when she needed me?

[NutLoose]

I used to have an attractive civi dentist that used to rest her breasts on my forehead when working on my teeth, have I got a case?

[langleybaston]

JHQ Rheindahlen had one such c. 1992, a redhead.
I didn't really have a tooth twinge, nor did my colleagues.
And, yes, she knew, she knew .....................

[artee]

...As for Fallon, storm in a teacup.

Depending on the woman, it could have been a storm in a D-Cup...

[Melchett01]

At 18 years old I read that the ideal high-octane coupling was male 18 female 28.
So where was she when she needed me?

From experience I'd say it was 18 and 29:E

I had my initial interview for the UAS the following day. I walked in to the interview just that little bit taller that afternoon. So much so that some might say it was the best performance I delivered during my entire time with the Sqn!


Probably correct too!

[Cazalet33]

https://s1.postimg.org/1aztodpckv/Handy.jpg

[ShyTorque]

You didn't say 'yes please' did you? There are limits to gentlemanly behaviour you know!

Obviously, as a gentleman, I merely took her by the hand and led her back to her husband.

[DirtyProp]

Cazalet, you forgot the one that forces her to wear this lovely ensemble every time she goes out:

http://wpmedia.nationalpost.com/2016/08/burka.jpg?w=300&quality=60&strip=all

Or that doesn't count?

[DON T]

There was once a single female dentist at Akrotiri who used to stalk into the bar late in the evening and scan the visiting crews for a likely consort for the evening. Normally garrulous young officers would stand like rabbits in the headlamps as she singled out her prey. I was too old, ugly, unfit to be in the selection team but her laser scan put the wind up me alright.
The weaker sex, not.

Remember her well, down the water ski club one day and one of the youngsters came into the bar and announced ‘Daddy my dentist is in the back of a Land Rover with a UN man.’

Personnel from BZN may remember her.

[BEagle]

Leaving aside all the recent prep school sniggering posts, does anyone really consider Fallon's behaviour acceptable in the 21st century?

Julia Hartley Brewer's response was clear and unequivocal though.

Have there been incidents concerning senior serving RAF officers making unwelcome advances on those under their command?

[MPN11]

Plenty! Whether 'unwelcome' or otherwise, there was a lot of it about.

However, going into specific details on this thread would be 'inappropriate'.

[ExRAFRadar]

Okay I'll bite.
WTF does this have to do with Aviation, let alone Military Aviation?
Jet Blast is on the phone and wants its thread back.

[ShotOne]

Well said!

It's unfortunate that "he touched my knee seventeen years ago" ends up on the same page as the appalling multiple rape allegations. But where does this end? It's certainly made me think carefully about being alone with a female in any professional situation where an allegation, possibly decades later can wipe out ones career.

[NutLoose]

Obviously, as a gentleman, I merely took her by the hand and led her back to her husband.


Menage a trois Huh, I never knew you were that type of Gentleman :p

[Thomas coupling]

At the bar after an airshow in Guernsey many moons ago:

Harrier pilot walks up to a stunning lady at the bar:

"How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

"NOT fertilised by you".............she retorted!

[charliegolf]

At the bar after an airshow in Guernsey many moons ago:

Harrier pilot walks up to a stunning lady at the bar:

"How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

"NOT fertilised by you".............she retorted!

Calling BS on that one.

If true, he'd have said, "I'm a harrier pilot, how do you like your eggs in the morning?"

Schoolboy error TC:ok:

CG

[langleybaston]

So we are into put-downs are we?.

Here is one that stung.

Met Office College Shinfield Park c. 1977, LB is an instructor in his 30s. The instructors often combatted the studes in various games, such as cricket and football in season, table tennis and bar billiards and snooker.

LB, having lost a decent lead at the table was taken aback by the brilliant potting of a gorgeous young lady in a tight-fitting white cat suit.

"Signs of a mis-spent youth" quoth he.

She looked me carefully up and down.

"I'm still mis-spending mine, and not with you!".

[Cornish Jack]

Re. Alan Clark's 'activities', I'm just reading his biography, in particular the time when he was about to publish his 'Diaries' and the various publishers were invited to bid for the rights. His biographer states that his (Trewin's) representative was Caroline Michel (oddly, wife of a rival firm's boss) and was selected on the basis of AC's known predilections. She turned up wearing a mini- skirt, "VERY mini". Is there any relevance to the term "agent provocateur" under these circumstances?? ... They won the auction!!:hmm: