Swedish AF Herc display

[PPRuNeUser0139]

I must be getting old but Bud Holland's name came to mind in watching this video from the late 80s. (as a bonus, at 5.25 he shuts down the outboards..)

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Apologies if this has been posted here before.

[MPN11]

Very sporting!

[H Peacock]

Great to see a large aeroplane being manoeuvred beyond 30deg AoB. Such a shame that we don't see more multis being role demo'd or even displayed.

[60024]

There was a Dutch F-27 display in the late 1970s that was flown with one of the props feathered. Saw it at IAT/RIAT a couple of times iirc.

[treadigraph]

The Dutch F-27 display was always excellent.

Sure I saw some video of the Swedish AF C-130 being looped, though it could have been that wing over got a little more extreme on occasion. I once saw the F-27 get close to wings level inverted at Biggin.

[Evalu8ter]

There have been some pretty sparkling F-27,C-27J, G222, Transall and, more recently, A400M displays over the years. IMHO there's quite a difference between a choreographed, practised display subject to training and supervision, and Bud Holland's rip-sh1t attitude and flagrant disregard for rules, aircraft limits, CRM and authority. Much like a Chinook, a lightly loaded transport aircraft has a pretty handy thrust margin when flown at display weights. The key is the proper selection, training and monitoring of dedicated display crews. The main reason for a lack of ME displays, I'd imagine, is that they're simply too busy most of the time to spare airframes / crews for the "circuit".

[ORAC]

There’s one less C-17 around as well to prove the necessity for constant supervision and oversight.

[H Peacock]

Whilst there were clearly supervisory issues, the C17 and B52 'display' loses were primarily caused by some fairly basic pilot mishandling!

[MightyGem]

C17 accident: :(
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[DCThumb]

Hmmmm, I AM getting old! Way outside the manufacturers AoB limits on many occasions...yeah yeah yeah, I'm a stick in the mud, but as I recall there was a review of the speeds flown in turns in the RAF Herc TAC Demo and it revealed they were perilously low....regrettably the methodology/results didn't filter to other RAF Fleets and (memory may be fading) the review never reached Kinloss, a fact mentioned in the BOI into the 1995 Nimrod crash in Toronto. This Swede was treading a fine line between stall and over stress...

Lost too many friends to enjoy this sort of display I'm afraid :(

Grumpy old man rant over....

[Basil]

There IS a difference between shutting down two in controlled flight and winding on 90deg of bank in a large aircraft close to the ground and not understanding drag rise etc.
A buddy, and all the crew, was killed by some tvat doing that.

[tartare]

Those Swedes need to harden up.
The RAAF spins C130s. ;)

[A and C]

I have nothing but respect for the Dutch crew who displayed the F27 in such a sprightly way, fifteen years after seeing the Aircraft thrown around the sky I found my self in command of an F27.............. it was without doubt the worst turbine aircraft I have flown !

[Brian W May]

Lockheed's bank limits way exceeded. Glad I wasn't IN it and glad I didn't have to fly it afterwards.

Lunacy - 60° bank clean, 45° bank with flap. What's the point in busting them - I presume the manufacturers set limits for a bloody good reason .

[TBM-Legend]

Don't forget the RAAF HS748 doing a couple of rolls and big wing-overs at RAAF Base Sale in the distant past...

I was a witness being the tower controller!

[treadigraph]

It's been on here before...

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[Treble one]

Great to see a large aeroplane being manoeuvred beyond 30deg AoB. Such a shame that we don't see more multis being role demo'd or even displayed.


The Italian RSV C-27J Spartan display is a tad sporty....complete with barrel rolls, loops and knife edge passes...


I was gobsmacked and impressed in equal measure.

[megan]

Like this Treble.

zN_RaK97nig

Don't forget the RAAF HS748 doing a couple of rolls and big wing-overs at RAAF Base Sale in the distant past...The pilots paying off flight. CO none too happy and called for checks to be made of the aircraft, pilot replied you better check them all, I've been practicing for a week. So the story went.The RAAF spins C130sAnd a P-3 if I recall.Lockheed's bank limits way exceededIf you are blessed with the requisite degree of skill you can do almost anything with any aircraft without breaking it aka Bob Hoover, saw him doing hammerheads in a Sabreliner among other gymnastics, "Tex" in the -80. Limits are for we mere mortals.

[ORAC]

Limits are for everybody, otherwise you find out how mortal you are. That especially applies when you have others along for the ride.

[megan]

ORAC, angle of bank limits, no aerobatic manouvers and the like is what I meant to imply. Airspeed, G limits, engine limits and the like, there is no getting around, they apply to all.

[Cornish Jack]

For those of the above contributors who post some sort of plaudits for the various quoted demo's, may I suggest you offer yourself to the various services who have to deal with the (inevitable) aftermath of such stupidity!:mad: Those of us who have, will look at these examples and ask WHY? Other than brief public episodes of self-gratification and 'willy-waving', they serve no useful purpose and records show the toll in human life they involve. The potential problems associated with aviation are sufficiently numerous without adding to them.:ugh:

[dead_pan]

Nice bit of air-to-air camerawork in the OP's video. I particularly liked the view down on the Khe San. Ground-based camera work was okay, although the cameraman did appear to get a little distracted at one point...

On a similar theme, I was crowd front + centre when the Italian G222 crew over-cooked it at RIAT and collapsed the nosewheel. I recall a Herc was bugled up from Lyneham to do a couple of low-level flypasts to keep the crowd entertained while the organisers figured out how to remove the bent & scratched a/c.

[DCThumb]

Whilst there were clearly supervisory issues, the C17 and B52 'display' loses were primarily caused by some fairly basic pilot mishandling!

....like flying outside the limitations of the aircraft and flying unauthorised manoeuvres!!!

[Brian W May]

General Comment:

I am SO relieved to see so many folks agree with the sensible view.

I reported a Families Day flypast (Falcons) at Lyneham pointing out the aircraft rolled to well over 100° bank (filmed).

The SH1T hit the fan and it was explained to me (as an OCU instructor) that a barrel roll exerted 1 g all the way round. I responded that I presumed Lockheed knew that too. I asked how many pilots have the requisite skill - no answer.

But once more, there was tacit approval of unauthorised manoeuvres all the way up the corridor - so why bother eh? The pilot in this case was known as a bully (very similar name) and I was assured that it would be dealt with 'in house'.

More bollocks . . . nothing happened.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

Thanks BWM -
Does anyone here think a Stn Cdr - let alone an AOC - would have authorised that display?
To be fair to the Swedes, display culture has changed greatly since the late 80s.
With not knowing a word of Swedish, the first time I watched it I was waiting for the accident to happen.

[BEagle]

One of the most impressive big aeroplane displays ever, was flown by a well-known SAAF DC-4 pilot at the SAAF's 50th anniversary of the Harvard:

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Note the double asymmetric, gear down, flap down sequence.....:eek:

[H Peacock]

....like flying outside the limitations of the aircraft and flying unauthorised manoeuvres!!!

Well I was referring to the most basic of handling errors by flying too slowly for the applied load factor (g) and stalling! I don't know the max AoB for the C17 or the B52, nor what was authorised, but suspect control of both aircraft was lost somewhat before they got to their maximum observed AoB.

[megan]

Other than brief public episodes of self-gratification and 'willy-waving', they serve no useful purpose and records show the toll in human life they involve.Hear, hear, or is that here, here? Get rid of the "Reds" and save a bucket of cash to boot.

[DCThumb]

The C17 was as a result of an ‘aggressive turn’ which led to a stall warning which the crew ignored and attempted to continue the manoeuvre. I don’t doubt that this was not the first time that the Captain/crew had elected to ignore a stall warning or fly an overly aggressive turn. Rather than a failure in basic handling, I think this was a result of what is called ‘deviation of the norm’ - the crew had been allowed to get away with this by the supervisory chain in the past, leading to these tragic results.

Role demo’s should be just that! For a Herc, this could involve some sort of Tac take off/landing. For an E3, well, let’s not go there suffice to say it won’t be very dynamic!

Brian May -it’s not just you, and I know which Captain you refer to!!

[MightyGem]

Other C130 display videos are available:

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[Old Fella]

Those Swedes need to harden up.
The RAAF spins C130s. ;)

The RAAF spun one C130A inadvertently during a stall demo when the NTS action caught the drew out. The aircraft, A97-207, was recovered.

[DeanoP]

Reference Posts No 24 and 29.

I believe that the display pilot in question 'was dealt within house' by promotion and latterly becoming a Station Commander.

[DCThumb]

Quite correct Dean....had you left 24 by the time he was back as staish?

[Brian W May]

Reference Posts No 24 and 29.

I believe that the display pilot in question 'was dealt within house' by promotion and latterly becoming a Station Commander.

. . . . and they wondered why the hierarchy had little/no credibility. What an obnoxious bloke he was.

His speciality when I flew with him (Flt Lt, until I un-volunteered) was kitty-drinking, with him getting twice as much as everybody else . . .

Enough . . .